10 Things I hate about WipEout Pulse

[Hyper Shadow]

To me, WipEout is Wip3out. I loved that game despite the force wall and shield/boost mechanic.

I'd like to take the side that favours BR, if we consider WipEout as the evolution of F1, well they keep coming up with new tricks and technology to increase the speed on track. If you want a scientific reason for the BR boost, its a Kinitec Overcharge Device that causes a 100% increase in power from the potential energy created by the barrel motion.

If the BR worked 100% of the time, and that isn't helped by the awful Phat PSP D-Pad, then I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

[Hail Seizure]

The best explanation for all AG technology that I've ever seen is the Douglas Adams quote: "hovering in the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't".

[zargz]

when I first heard about the magstrips in pulse I was a bit sceptical
but as they massively cut the BRs - I love them.

that about BRs

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?
although we don't notice it big amount of time on magstrips we are racing 90¤ from the ground or in a loop up and down!
so could it be gravity that is pulling our leg?
actually I'm not sure about that, it's just a feeling I got
might be wrong ..

Good to know the race times in tours will be adressed.

the fact that you can't see which races a tournament contains but just the number of tracks
for me is totally OK. I think the surprise factor is a good thing to keep on your toes the first time you'll race it.
let's face it it ought to be some of the new track on that grid, right? it's not much to it
I can see the races on infra. that's enough for me

the menu.
Awesome! I'm not a designer and i think it looks ok. i like even the wo3 menu design
I like it coz it is functional! also I like minimalism.
pures menu might have been more pure but was a real pain as well.
there were several issues in pures menues
like you couldn't go back to see the race standing after you went to the tour standing in a tournament.
I was so late in to pure so I figured it wasn't worth bitching about it

pulse is so much better for example you can go from the first choice in the menu to the bottom choice just by pressing up.
also some menues 'remember' your last choices like what track you raced last on infra, if you are the mod there.


mmm .. later!

gotta go get my infra fix now!

[jacen]

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?

i was thinking the same thing and will test that out now.

/edit:
i tried moa therma because it has both a vertical and a horizontal magstrip
-) projectiles are not deflected on horizontal magstrips
-) projectiles get deflected upwards in the vertical looping part

gonna try de konstruct now to see for vertical non-bendt magstrips

/edit2:
well ... im not entirely sure that de konstructs magstrips are vertical,
but the projectiles dont get deflected on the straigt part of the magstrip.
but as soon they are on the curved part, they get deflected towards "up".
up refers to the real upwards direction ... at least i think it is.


actually i even think this should be physically correct, at least if you
leave out friction effects. but i might be wrong ... i only study physics.

[Hail Seizure]

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground (so it's basically a big hairpin with a 90 degree camber).
On the white version you'll see the ground to your right and the sky to your left, and vice versa on the black version.

[jacen]

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground.

that would make it vertical, no? i mean the lateral axis of the track is standing upright. not like in vertica where the lateral axis of the track is still horizontal.

[infoxicated]

I guess its personal preference at the end of the day not just in terms of barrel rolls or not, but in terms of what Wipeout is. Does the inclusion of Barrel rolsl mean its not truly Wipeout... not for me, I think that is quite over the top. but then my defnition of wipeout is mine, and not yours.

My beef with barrel rolls is that they add a blatantly contrived element to the gameplay. Why should spinning the ship around give me a speed boost? There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up. The speed boost thing was covered - if I want to go faster in addition to those speed boosts then it's up to me to play the game well.

I think the rest of the stuff done in WipEout (force walls from WipEout 3 and Quake aside) just seems so much more considered than barrel rolls. If doing a barrel roll gives you a speed boost, why stop there? Rumble Racing was doing back flips, barrel rolls and insane twist combinations for turbo boosts in a racing game back in 2001. If being cutting edge and re-inventing things with every new edition was the name of the game then surely Gran Turismo should have ramps and short cuts by now? Surely we should be doing flat-spins, front and back flips, and any combination of that lot in WipEout.

With barrel rolls we also have this game mechanic that is essential to perform in order to achieve a fast lap time. However, by your own admission, it sometimes doesn't work because of a frame rate dip. So you can be performing an otherwise perfect lap, only to miss a barrel roll for whatever reason - was it me? was it a frame rate dip? is it being caused by the disappearing HUD bug? (couldn't BR at the Amphiseum at all last night and I had the broken HUD bug.)

In WipEout 3 I could consistently get close to my fastest lap times. Occasionally I'd put it all together for all of the laps and set a new record. It felt under my control. With barrel rolls and their fallibility, I don't feel like I am truly in charge of a good lap. I feel like a need a fluke of a race where I nail all the barrel rolls. And when I miss one I feel like I've been robbed of an otherwise spotless performance.

We also have the risk in multiplayer whereby the player at the back of a pack has less chance of executing a barrel roll than a guy at the front of the pack. The player who needs it most can be denied it because their console is drawing more on the screen and their frame rate is more likely to dip. That isn't something that's true of any other other aspect of the game - weapons, thrust, absorb (which I think is a good replacement for pit lanes, by the way - that's evolution) can be relied upon to perform when the player needs them to.

So, what if we fix the frame rate dips and you can flawlessly perform barrel rolls each and every time as if it was merely a button press rather than a button combo. Well, then they become something that's executed with such triviality as to be pointless. It'd be like the up-across-up combo that I use to go from second to third gear when I'm driving my car. Occasionally I miss it and it costs me some time, but 99% of the time it's so automatic that I don't even think about it. Might as well be driving an automatic because it might as well be automatic.

Now, you frequently bring up WipEout 3 and it's use of shield energy as a game mechanic as an example of how that game is not WipEout as you define it. But to me it makes perfect sense. Your ship has a pool of energy that is drawn from to power the shields. You can also borrow from it to give your engines some extra performance, but you risk leaving yourself vulnerable. That seems reasonable to me - risk and reward, and in terms of the game universe it's well thought out.

Force walls I'll give you - they're daft. Not as daft as barrel rolls, but daft I agree.

Anyway its nearly xmas can we stop talking about work ? (after your reply which will no douobt bust my balls )
I want to know what you are buying me for Christmas Bob ?

We're not talking about work, we're talking about the game!

I was getting you a grand and a pint for xmas... but you'll have to settle for a pint.

[swift killer]

I agree with Rob, force walls and barrel rolls ARE DAFT. Hyperthrust from WO3 is a more balanced system if it is reintroduce than SL should make sure that the AI uses it as well, its so easy to cake-walk the AI in phantom class with the use of barrel rolls simply because the AI did not use it.

[off topic but in response to what Colin said before]
For WipEout to be WipEout, there should not be things in the game that are way too over the top or damn right ennoying (other than getting hit by the AI which is pretty much part of the game). That said, it's good to have some elements that are over the top which just make look and think 'wow, that is amazing', for me WipEout Fusion had plenty of those in its track design (other than the trackless sections), it was pretty much let down alot but other elements in the game.[/off topic]

[rageagainstgeorge]

That's a brilliant post infox. Very close to my feelings on weapons in the game.

I agree with you 100% about the hyperthrust feature aswell. It's a delicate comprise when you use it - too much and you're dead, to little and you'll miss out on the top times.

I think that Wipeout should have some pickups. The turbo and the shield are fine for me. I agree aswell, the absorb function is brilliant. All the others however I feel don't fit in that well. Some stand out more than others. Barrell rolls are the same, no reason for them to be in the came. Anything that adds in the element of chance to the game takes away the fun for me.

I thought that Wipeout without weapons would be boring but myself, Stin, Hypershadow, Zargz and TomatoJoe and a great no weapons tournament the other night. Just as exciting as the other weapons tourney we raced.

[G'Kyl]

I'd love to be more elaborate about BRs and the very interesting stuff that's been said, but since right now I don't have the time...

But Ben, that's the fun part of analyzing tracks

Naaaw, I have to disagree. What it really comes down to is this: To me, what's great about analyzing the track is finding the ideal _racing_ line - not the perfect _stunt_ line. We got Burnout Paradise for that.

Ben

[zargz]

There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up.

yeh, that should cover it. for BRs and shield_for_boost

[Colin Berry]

I wrote a really, really long reply, but based on some of what it says I cant really post it and I havent the time to edit it I'll save it for a car journey in the new year

In short though, we've had this conversation for ages, we disagree and neither of us are going to change on that. I think they are fun and have a place in Pure and Pulse, you dont. Beyond Pure and Pulse, who knows, maybe the next one with see them dropped or stay or expanded - super wipeout stunt racer extreme FX 500000 ! no probably not.

As for the hyper thrust thing, in short, I dont like the way it plays, I dont like that it forces you to pit every lap (assuming you want to use the thrust to compete) I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop, and the system as it was in WO3 wouldnt work alongside the absorb mechanic, which in my mind works far better than pit-lanes. I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

And you should know me well enough to know 1k cant buy me ! With or without a pint thrown in.

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... . .

[Fascia]

I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop

I have to agree completely there, the new 'absorb' system is perhaps one of the best changes to happen to the series' gameplay.

While in theory, I believe the barrel roll mechanic is sound, as my fellow zoners said, its implimentation could use some tweaking. My personal biggest problem with it is how 'random' it is, and that the majority of the fastest laps require a barrel roll in the most akward of places, after the concordia loop on talons junction for example, making it all that more frustrating to get a decent time.

[swift killer]

I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

How about rewarding the player boost refills as a reward for hitting opponent with weapon fire and/or perfect sections?

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... .

Probably not my business, buy I'm guessing you went crazy and got an XBOX 360. The irony; Sony Employee buys rival product!

I absolutely hated the pitlanes in the older games, sometimes they would put you right out of contension for a race win, the absorb system is pretty much a stroke of genius the way I see it.

[Dogg Thang]

Is it a box of chocolates? Or scorpians? Or... chocolate scorpions?

On pitlanes, yeah I agree on those but, you know, they were a side effect of bringing in the concept of destroying ships which was not a part of the original WO. Actual ship damage was rare enough back then that the pit lane was usually only ever needed if you raced badly and hit the walls - at which point you're probably not going to win anyway and the pit lane makes you even slower so adding double punishment.

Whereas the original WO already had a punishment system in place - time.

So the pit lanes to me are just a symptom of that shift. Absorb system is much better, but the move gathered serious momentum in the meantime.

[Medusa]

(I hope Colin reads the Poll thread (that would be the thread "So what is Wipeout to you?" in the Wipeout Future forum) which really answers his question 2 pages back. Because my answer has nothing to do with Pulse and that's what this thread is supposed to be about, haha.)

In the end it's not about what each individual likes/doesn't like, it's about what truly defines WipEout as a great and incredibly unique game. I hope the designers try to keep to its uniqueness and never toss in new components only for the sake of "keeping it fresh" or "making it friendly for beginners".

[Lance]

}agrees with Medusa{

}and loves boost for shield since it adds so much to the tactics and decision making{

[Dogg Thang]

In terms of boost for shield, thankfully the barrel rolls are limited by where you can pull them off.

[jacen]

i do like boost for shield AND barrel rolls.
what noone has thought of here ... what if barrel rolls would cost more energy (like ... 30%) and you could do them anywhere you like.
this way they kinda would work like boost for shield. they should be harder to pull off aswell so it really requires skill to use them.


the way i see it, they bacame even more powerful in pulse, as you now can take all the speed you get from brs around corners. thats something that didn't work out in pure.

[Dogg Thang]

Making them harder to do only makes Foxy's point more relevant (which I completely agree with). Miss one barrel roll when you're going for a top time and you may as well restart.

As for being able to do it anywhere and cost more energy, that would make a current problem much, much worse. I'm just mopping up the last of the golds in Pulse (have 5 left). Now I should point out that I'm not the greatest WO player by a long shot. But on those Phantom tournaments, there are pretty much only two outcomes in each race for me - 1st, or eliminated. If I survive, I'm usually way ahead of the pack. So it's not about racing in those ones. It's just about being lucky to survive.

If you make the boost/shield available anywhere, that would mean that would pretty much always be the case. It's do or die. 1st or eliminated.

Personally, I don't think that's fun.