Studio Liverpool gone

[blackwiggle]

Please remember we wouldn't play any of these games if Sony weren't there in the first place. Kudos to their continuous effort on the series. Period.

For a long time many here have voiced the opinion that we might of been better off if Sony had never bought the rights to Wipeout.
It's treated the franchise badly over the years with woeful to basically no publicity, and relegating the game to selling handheld consoles.
When everybody knows Wipeout is best played on a BIG screen.

Plus it has used Wipeout as the "Guinea Pig" for any new technology that Sony is trying to flog off.
Thankfully the talented SL team has/had for the most part been able to save Wipeout from being a glitch ridden disaster

I don't think we have seen the last of Wipeout.
But I dread to think of the possible dog's breakfast any new development team could make of the series without at least some people who have worked on at least one previous Wipeout.

My feelings about this whole thing [and who's ultimately responsible for it], and what might happen next exactly mirror Infoxicated's

[vincoof]

I don't think we have seen the last of Wipeout.
But I dread to think of the possible dog's breakfast any new development team could make of the series without at least some people who have worked on at least one previous Wipeout.

My previous experience on this kind of rebirth is somewhat pessimistic. For instance SNK did incredible fighting games in the 90's, e.g. the KoF series, but the company had some serious financial issues and ultimately did shut down in 2001. Eventually some of the former employees kept on developing titles with SNK Playmore (which is practically SNK reborn from its ashes) and continued the KoF series which was exactly what the fans were looking for, but... the truth is, none of the sequels got the hype that many of the former KoF titles had in their golden age.

If I had to interview gamers and ask them what fighting games made their day in the past years, many of them would answer Street Fighter, Tekken or BlazBlue but very few of them if any would answer King of Fighters. So, the series was reborn by the developers for the fans, but at which cost ? A dying franchise which barely survives because some fans want to believe in a potential successful title ?

I guess many gamers here don't give a damn to SNK or fighting games or whatever but I'm pretty sure you see the point.

Back on topic, the question is: are you ready to live the same history for the WipEout franchise ? Is it really worth that SL raises from its ashes and create titles that only fans might enjoy ? Would you like to see your favorite series lose its breath time after time until the day it can't breathe anymore ?

Of course there's no guarantee that WO will endure the same fate. Then ask to yourself, didn't it alreasy happened when Psygnosis became Studio Liverpool ? Many people here (including myself) state that the last stunning WipEout title was WipEout 3 SE which, incidentally, was the last one developed by Psygnosis.

[MENGKESHI]

It's treated the franchise badly over the years with woeful to basically no publicity, and relegating the game to selling handheld consoles.
When everybody knows Wipeout is best played on a BIG screen.

Don't underestimate the power of wiping on the train or the toilet!! In all fairness, I do think the Vita is an awesome piece of kit and would personally prefer to see it become more of a priority for developers, not less. My 2p...

[blackwiggle]

It's just the consistent lost opportunities that have befallen Wipeout that are a constant frustration.
SONY stuffed up.
They have stuffed up with digital rights management as well
Bad calls regarding publicity
Bad calls regarding which platform Wipeout came out on......SL wouldn't be shutting down if PURE & PULSE & 2048 were both released on Duel Platforms [PSP & PS 2/Vita/PS3]
Why only half showcase "Crossplay"?
Dumb decisions.
Who made them?

[MENGKESHI]

Agreed! Especially regarding the publicity!!

[vincoof]

Many speculations and yet no proof that better publicity or dual platform release or whatever would have result in a different ending.

It's too easy once something is done to say "I would have made different decisions and things would have been better". They made decisions based on the facts and forethoughts they had in the time the game was designed, developed and released.

I'm not saying they made the best decisions ever, but I'm fairly unsure I would have made better decisions if I had to chose them, and - no offense intended - I'm pretty sure everybody here could hardly *guarantee* they would have done better either if they had to make decisions in the same time and place as Sony had to.

[MENGKESHI]

Well of course having more funding for Wipeout promotion is going to produce better results for the sales of the Wipeout games. Surely that is undeniable?

The choice you are talking about is Sony's decision to put the funding elsewhere - who knows, maybe this actually was a good financial choice for Sony overall as a company.

But this is a Wipeout fansite so of course the players that love this game are going to feel annoyed that the studio was shut down after the games were not promoted to a level which we feel they deserved.

[Dogg Thang]

You're right Vincoof - it's all speculation. Except for this: the decisions made didn't work. And Sony were in charge of the whole thing. Back in the Psygnosis days and early Sony acquisition, when it appeared the studio had more autonomy, they had G-Police, Colony Wars, Destruction Derby, Overboard, Barbarian, were involved in Lemmings, Rollcage and so many more as publishers and of course Wipeout and F1. Since the studio completely became part of SCE and lost the Psygnosis brand, as far as I can remember they have only done Wipeout and F1. For over ten years. What happened to the creativity? I don't know.

Could the studio have been saved if decisions were different? Of course. It's a tough marketplace out there and getting tougher but many studios can stay afloat. A studio with the history of Psygnosis and resources of Sony should not have ended up closing like this.

The reasons don't hugely matter right now I guess, except for it all being a massive shame. The history of Studio Liverpool and especially Psygnosis speaks for itself. A huge part of gaming history.

[scarfrogers]

All I know if that I am going to be making the most out of the servers while they are still around. Online every evening going for 1st place, rage quitting and general mayhem

I suggest everyone gets online and plays some races (flash hopefully - I suck at everything else!). Good times on countdown...

[vincoof]

You're right Vincoof - it's all speculation. Except for this: the decisions made didn't work.

That's utterly true, but if you read my post again you'll see that I agree with this statement =)

What bothers me is that some posters claim that the good and bad decisions were easy to spot beforehand.

A studio with the history of Psygnosis and resources of Sony should not have ended up closing like this.

Sure the close was shocking, and obviously no one here wanted that (not even me even though I kind of moved on already). I raised with games like Shadow of the Beast or Lemmings, so trust me, if someone here is really sad that everything ends, that's me.

But let's say you could chose how it ends, what would be the perfect ending ? What kind of ending would have not let you write it "should not have ended up closing like this" ?

That's more of a philosophical question but maybe a good ending is an utopia. Every ending is dramatic: if something ends at its best mood, then fans are sad they can't enjoy more sequels ; if something ends with a terrible last work, then everyone wishes this never happened. Either way I can't find a fitting ending that makes everyone happy.

[blackwiggle]

Many speculations and yet no proof that better publicity or dual platform release or whatever would have result in a different ending.

It's too easy once something is done to say "I would have made different decisions and things would have been better". They made decisions based on the facts and forethoughts they had in the time the game was designed, developed and released.

I'm not saying they made the best decisions ever, but I'm fairly unsure I would have made better decisions if I had to chose them, and - no offense intended - I'm pretty sure everybody here could hardly *guarantee* they would have done better either if they had to make decisions in the same time and place as Sony had to.

It all comes down to sales and profitability, if a game doesn't sell then that studio is in trouble.
I could understand Sony wanting to keep Wipeout as a Playstation exclusive, but considering that it has had both the PS2/PSP out at the same time, and the PS3/PSP/GO!/VITA out at the same time, why would you purposely limit possible sales by only releasing PURE/PULSE/2048 on the handhelds?
Studio Liverpool has had it's hands tied behind it's back in that regard, by it's parent company.
It's like Sony were prepared to limit the studio and seemingly run it at a loss, and this closure is the final result of that process.

If Wipeout had stayed out of Sony's hand's, there is a high probability that it would of stayed a multi platform game [it was already available on PC & N64], it would of been great on the Sega Dreamcast, would of sold heaps on the Xbox, it would of sold a LOT more titles as full PS2/PS3 games.

Ultimately we are Wipeout fans, and fans of the talented people who made the games.
Definitely not Sony fans

[AG-SYSTEMS]

I have to agree with those last two lines blackwiggle. I only use my PS3 for WipEout. Nothing else. I'm not a gamer.