SL leaderboard post boost-select-boost

[RobCoxy]

and besides thats not the best place to use the boost for speed lapping/ tt,

Aha! I knew there must be a different boost-br spot because of all the times, how could i have missed this lol . I will have a little search of youtube, hopefully an AP Rev vid is there somewhere .

[djKyoto]

AP Rev Speed Lap is my worst Phantom Ranking due to BSB.

I hate you BSB.

[RedScar]

A theif who explains his plan is still a theif. I have no doubt that pirahpac, OBH, Yeldar, etc who use BSB are dedicated and care about WO, the fact that they post here so much shows that. I'm just saying how I feel, which I guess you could characterize as extreme but that is how I am.

I hope piraphac is kidding about leaving the forum, my opinion does not represent anyone else and while I may disagree with him on BSB and SL, doesn't mean I won't race him in a Multiplayer race (and lose). I am simply stating my 2 cents on the issue, he can ignore it if he so feels like it. He doesn't seem to like it though, but I hope that this is just an emotional outburst and not a concrete choice to leave.

[Connavar]

I'm a little bit upset at SL for not even have thought it before adding this
"SELECT" button, I mean they should have asked us, because for instance, as
soon as I heard about the possibility to reset the time, I thought about how it
could be taken advantage of (cheat), and then I knew it was possible and
feared that someone would start using it to beat world records ... and then it
happened with pirhapac/kingheim on ubermall ...

The rest is history: people started talking about it everywhere, and normal
racers would be the losers, not knowing that such a trick could exist.

What I mean, if myself I already directly thought about it, I'm sure many others
also thought the same ... and we would have given a proper way to use the
"reset lap", there are many ways in fact, you can choose (or combine them):

- reset can only occur 5 seconds before crossing the line
- needs 3 real seconds between each reset, timer obviously starts NOT when
you push the button, but after the boost
- reset can only be used on the ground (still need to validate this)
- reset completely stops your ship for x seconds
- reset can only be used when ship is not moving (stop)
- ...

But not the way they did!

[kaori]

- reset can only occur 5 seconds before crossing the line

Bad idea, once on Vineta K, I went out the tracks, and did a biiiiig and vertical bounce on an building, and after reset my boost, and lot of seconds, I could boost above the startline. This was an incredible exploit

[Connavar]

Could also add a distance from the starting line.
5 seconds could translate to xxx meters.

Anyway your example is more like a glitch than something
everyone can use again and again.

[yeldar2097]

- needs 3 real seconds between each reset, timer obviously starts NOT when
you push the button, but after the boost

I'm pretty sure this is the case already since afaik BSB is only still possible on vineta, moa, uber, modesto, anulpha reverse, uber reverse

[shapealot]

@ robcoxy

on AP rev use your boost just after u exit the chicane at the start, pitch up as u go over the speed pad and boost BR down the straight into the right hander. its a lot quicker than the other way because u can still get a BR off the hill and hit the 3 speed pads

[Connavar]

I think the safest way is to allow reset when your ship is on the ground,
and maximum 80% of the track, beyond that it's the point of no return

[RobCoxy]

@ robcoxy

on AP rev use your boost just after u exit the chicane at the start, pitch up as u go over the speed pad and boost BR down the straight into the right hander. its a lot quicker than the other way because u can still get a BR off the hill and hit the 3 speed pads

Yeah, I just looked it up on Youtube . Thanks mate .

[ProblemSolver]

Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
not directed to any specific person.

It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove something
for themself and against others. Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's
obviously cheating (you name it). Let me tell you, if you get older then you
wanna have a real good and fair competition among your friends. But younger
people tend to take whatever is needed to win and they care less for their
opponents (friends?). In essence, they don't really care that much whether they
will destroy any competition using a cheat or not.

I mean, it's cool to find a glitch, cheat, etc., but saying that those are a
part of the game and that one have to master them is plain ridiculous. From
a community standpoint, those cheats don't necessarily attract new players
and may draw some old ones away. And releasing all the glitches on YT just
simply builds up one's childish iFame, and nothing else. But that kind of fame
will ever mark one as a child because one obviously didn't understand how
to treat such a situation.

I could never be true to myself using any cheat for ZONE to set a new record,
whether the game allows for it or not. That's the farthest thing I can imagine.
I like to play by the native rules. But perhaps that's just me.

@Connavar: Fully signed.

[guillaume]

I should not drag myself into this, but oh well!

> Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
> not directed to any specific person.
Well it's kinda directed to the BSB users, which basically is a list of specific people.

> It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove
> something for themself and against others.
Leungbok is one of these people. He's 9 years older than you according to these forums.
I absolutely don't know the guy, but from all his posts, it doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to anyone. He just wants to get faster.
And I don't believe he's the exception here.

> Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's obviously cheating (you name it).
"IMO" would have been nice.

>[More condescending BS]

>I like to play by the native rules.
Like the way you wrap the lines in your posts?
I believe you like to play by the rules when you like them.

IMO

[ProblemSolver]

@guillaume: For people like "you" I wrote the disclaimer. xD I don't have to
write IMO since I've explicitly ruled out any generality by the disclaimer.
Hence, the entire post was written in 'IMO'.

... Well it's kinda directed to the BSB users, which basically is a list of specific people. ...

I'm referring to the group of BSB users, but I don't point at anyone. You may
argue that I indirectly have to point at one (you took one, Leungbok), but
that's not true, because my statements may not hold true for anyone within
this group.

... Leungbok is one of these people. He's 9 years older than you according to these forums.
I absolutely don't know the guy, but from all his posts, it doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to anyone. ...

And here is where you get lost. Nevermind.

[Darkdrium777]

I have a feeling that some wish this to turn into a clash between international/english community vs the French who "discovered" this exploit (And they didn't really discover it, it was pretty much a given to anyone with an inquisitive mind that it could be done.) Yes, that includes guillaume and pirhapac. Why?
Well pirhapac threatens to leave yet again when I believe he shouldn't take RedScar's 2 cents so personally, after all we all know why pirhapac's name is at the top and it's not because of one exploit he started using. Pirhapac, if that's what you think RedScar implied, you are wrong. He said that the BSB was an exploit of the game's design, in essence cheating this design. Now RedScar might disagree with this himself, but I don't think that because you used the BSB you should be called a cheater, I think you just made a mistake following Sony Liverpool's mistake to not fool proof the boost reset method. Then you were forced to use it because it was already too late.
Now guillaume drags Leungbok into the fray, for what purpose I don't know. I don't think it helps at all pointing people and calling out names. There is absolutely no need to make a list and point people out. Those that did use it did it so that they could still get the very important (for some) feel of the competition in the Speed Lap mode. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to because of this exploit. They used it because there was no other choice, because of a mistake of Sony Liverpool people started experimenting with it. It could have been anyone, not pirhapac who first uploaded the video.

But now this discussion shouldn't even be about "who's fault is it?", it should be "what happens now?" And I think what should happen now is a wiping of all the boards where glitches/exploits have happened (Like I said, Zone Anulpha Pass, Single Races for the vast majority and Speed Lap for wherever the boost reset exploit was used.) That is fair and unbiased action. Then, Sony Liverpool should work on a way to make this feature unexploitable like it still is now. There are many suggestions here, I have one:
Put a volume encompassing all the start line grid + a hundred meters before and after it, this volume being located all around the track and in the air at a very high altitude. Then, make it so that when you are inside this volume, it is impossible to recover your boost using the boost reset feature.
Or remove this feature outright. This second solution is easier as it doesn't require patching 24 race tracks and making us download them over all again in the patch (Thus approximating to around 1GB or more of data), but it removes convenience.

[jan709]

@guillaume: For people like "you" I wrote the disclaimer. xD I don't have to
write IMO since I've explicitly ruled out any generality by the disclaimer.
Hence, the entire post was written in 'IMO'.

Sorry to Bother you in this serious discussion, but what is "IMO"?
I'll hold further stupid questions to myself.

[Darkdrium777]

In My Opinion. You will also find IMHO, In My Honest Opinion.
I recommend you use Google to find it out if ever there's an abbreviation you don't know, it's good for this kind of stuff

[ProblemSolver]

With respect to D777 post:
What I don't get is why SL doesn't care about this situation and the leaderboard.
I mean WipEout HD depends soo much on speed like no other game and therefor
on time, on the clock. The clock differentiates a lot of things within WipEout, so
why don't they get it right? Where are all these coders that crank the hell out of
the PS3 but aren't able to maintain a leaderboard and fix very well known glitches?
Sure, they can't show beautiful pictures over the PS Blog, but c'mon.
BSB was the reason I never was into Speed Lap, and the Anulpha Pass glitch as
well as the messed up leaderboard drew me way from this track somehow. But
that's not to say I don't like Anulpha Pass in ZONE, but I will always have that
bad feeling when looking at the leaderboard.

[lunar]

I think when OBH started the thread he didn`t mean to attack anyone, it was just a point of discussion of what is the best thing to do with the leaderboards. There is no need for anyone to throw the toys out of the Icaras over this issue.

I think just get rid of boost cancel would be the best option. After a mistake we can go round again like we always used to and most of us need the practice of a few extra laps. Then get rid of any other glitches then reset the affected tables. I don`t think it will ever happen though because I don`t think history suggests Sony think maintaining the tables is worthwhile.

Connavar is right that it could have been avoided if some top HD players had been consulted. I always thought the players would make the best testers.

Anyway all this assumes that the whole leaderboard issue with Speed Lap ranks at all on Sony`s give-a-toss-o-meter. Some people at SL might want to fix things, but nothing ever happens. Ever since the launch of Pulse there has been just one leaderboard correction. They have done nothing with HD despite wrecked single race time leaderboards and obvious totally cheated zone scores. The boards don`t even update properly a lot of the time. Every game since Pure has had some sort of major issue with the way records are recorded locally and online. I don`t think SL put such record keeping very high on the to do list compared to graphical stuff like ship and track decoration which I personally think is less important. Otherwise it would all work. The vast majority of people who buy the game never get near top times with BSB existing or not. I`m not sure that the activities of a handful of players who want to use BSB to beat each other, because they have to use it to remain competitive and trim off a few tenths, is really going to be a commercial concern and therefore I won`t be surprise if nothing ever happens anyway.

[Lance]

Also, IMHO = In My Humble Opinion, which is why we have its corollaries, IMNSHO and IMNSFHO.

----

Speaking of which, IMNSFHO, in this tennis game, it's Studio Liverpool's turn to serve. Arguing with each other is a waste of time and typing, since personalities do not change their type without massive damage to the frontal lobes of the brain, which generally results in non-functioning of the human involved. You're not likely to change each other's opinions.

[ProblemSolver]

@lunar: If they can't maintain a leaderboard then they should skew it
altogether. They should allow us to update out times to a different (public)
server. Would be cool if our records could be transmitted to Connavar page,
for example.

@Lance: Do you really think one tries do change each other's opinions
here? I think we're all a little bit upset coz fixing all the issues would take
nothing when compared to the effort SL had spent on other things within
WipEout HD. Hell, I would be fine with one track less if they fix all the
issues in return.