SL leaderboard post boost-select-boost

[OBH]

For anyone who doesnt know - this is boost-select
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MttTY3GotRk(Our good friend Leungbok with a mighty fine example of it )

This feature was then replaced ina recent update, with needing to hold down a button for a few seconds.

Anyway, sorry if im a bit slow to this, I only really got to delve back into WipeoutHD and Fury the past week, but I was thinking surely SL should reset the speed lap times after having changed this feature??

I have nothing against the times currently set using this method, many of mine were, but if current leaderboard times cannot be beaten doesnt it makes the competition on the Speed Lap leaderboard completely redundant??

I feel robbed to be honest, why bother ever doing SL again on a number of tracks if i know its physically impossible to beat my record.

[Darkdrium777]

I guess that's what you get when you used this boost reset feature in order to get faster times. It's kind of a lesson: "you shouldn't have used it."
Some people haven't learned though and are still using it...
IMO they should wipe the leaderboards clean of all the modes that have had glitches in them: Zone, Speed Lap and Single Race.

[pirahpac]

its still possible everywhere ( new wr 17.40 vineta and me on moa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIK_XZQJZGQ ) but very hard ..very

[RedScar]

Just don't wipe the detonator boards right DD777 ;P I worked to hard to hard to beat your Pro Tozo score.

Not to start up this arguement again (and thus starting it again), but BSB and anything similar to it are not ment to be used. The boosting with nose up at the start of a lap to gain just enough height to BR like in Barnsters last video of his venom TJ speedlap (I can't remember who found this) I'm cool with, as it doesn't use any method that you couldn't already do pre to SL introducing the boost replacement.

[OBH]

its still possible everywhere ( new wr 17.40 vineta and me on moa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIK_XZQJZGQ) but very hard ..very

Didnt know its still possible.

Dont you think thats just going against the whole idea though? I mean they removed the feature because it was used in a manner that they hadnt intended, yet your still capable of doing it.

Im not going against the skill required to do it, i mean i watched that video and that really does look tough, but if it was difficult before, now only a select few diehards would still be competing for SL records. Should an entire game mode be reserved for the ones determined to pull off a trick SL went out of their way to try and remove??

Does the Moa Rev time not bother you at all pirahpac? I mean a piece of the track has been changed, making it IMPOSSIBLE to beat. Wheres the point in that? They wouldnt change an F1 circuit layout then keep the records from the original.

@ Darkdrium777
I agree glitched tables should be deleted, I dont agree with the "you shouldnt have used it though" part. I bet you use jumps during multiplayer races? People will always try to be faster.

[Lance]

This is an old argument started about the oldest versions of WO; do you do what the game makes possible or do you limit yourself to what your personal sense of honour allows? Which means that people with different ideas of what's honourable produce a non-level playing field. An issue which pretty much can never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[pirahpac]

for moa vineta sl i think its more easy..cuz i put the "select "just near the X ( so my finger hit 2 ..so no need to think to reput a boost..almost automatic )..ap rev is still possible too..ub too..the hardest is ap forward ..i did my 20.24 with..but akfurtif did his 20.08 without ..so.;i dont think any challenge is dead .just training is the key mate.if i can u can ..no? ps : hmm i dont think in other wipeout the boost before startline was intented for do it / and moa rev = no bsb .;just a big bug . i dont use this longcut because its the only boost br totally random. i have a good 22.52 with just a little boost br over the mag ( not in the sky or space like the longcut )

[XBARNSTERX]

I've already said that i think the tables should be wiped, as it is impossible to beat some records that used it. However alot of time was spent by people setting their times, would it be fair? It was talked about being able to delete your own records, any you felt where glitched or used BsB. I think thats the best idea, but then again that wouldnt take all BsB records out of the tables.

Dont be discouraged trying to better yours BsB times though, since the update i've bettered quite a few without this method and come real close to some with the new ships

[andybob35]

where's the rep feature gone? OBH has got it spot on! Id rather see a table where time for top ten are decided by skill and 00.00.10's and not like moa rev SL... luxoflux of all people should know better.... anyway as it can still be done on some tracks i don't see why the desperation to get a faster time when its clear very few racers are now attempting (beating current SL records) it now... its an exploit for the few who choose to use it, and those who do are comparing their time with other BSB people and not people who 'just play the game'...

[Lance]

~~~~.if i can u can ..no?

No.

[pirahpac]

discouraged me ? im just discouraged by peoples who spend 10 h by day in all class all the summer ..

[XBARNSTERX]

I'm not saying it did discourage you or anyone, just if anyone is theres no need to be.

[pirahpac]

dont worry lol.;all here know i suck in english ( and my traductor dont use any boost .;he suck too )

[Darkdrium777]

OBH: You shouldn't have used it because it's clear from a design standpoint that the boost reset was never meant to be a way to achieve faster times. The very fact that they tried (and failed, admittedly) to remove it from the game is proof enough that you should have never even thought about using it in this way.
However what is done is done, and now for a very big part of the game it is impossible for almost anyone but the aliens/robots (bar useless qualifications) to achieve times faster than their previous records. Thus, my suggestions to wipe the boards for Speed Lap as well as Zone (Anulpha Pass) and Single Race (Every single one because each has glitched times due to Spectator Mode.)
The fact that I am barrel rolling off jumps has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. If you are even trying to discredit my point by saying I barrel roll or use shortcuts, you will fail. Simply because shortcuts are an acknowledged technique by SL (See "Amphi-scenic Route") and barrel rolls are an inherent part of the gameplay of WipEout HD. The boost reset stands apart, because as I've explained multiple times before, it was not designed to be used in such a way (And see that SL agrees because they have modified it).
People will always try to be faster, yes. They should also try to use common sense once in a while. The simple fact that SL has modified the feature in order to render it harder to use should be a clear and obvious message saying: "you should stop using the boost reset to gain faster times." But people have not stop, so now where are we at: a select few are able to remain competitive due to their fast alien hands with 56 fingers each, while the rest are not doing anything.

[djKyoto]

+1 with Osama here. I never knew about the BSB untill just before it got removed. Now i'll know i'll never get close to some of the Speed lap times posted no matter how hard I try. Kinda unfair that it got exploited somewhat as cool at it is.

[Frances_Penfold]

This seems like uncharted waters.

There are lots of cases where there are exploitable factors in racing games. Off the top of my head...

1. Prolonged rocket boost (PRB) in Mario Kart DS... if you get a perfect start at the race line and hit nonstop mini-turbos, you can ride across all terrain (grass, sand, etc.) with no slow down.

2. Zig-zag mini-turbos in Mario Kart Super Circuit... if you push back and forth fast enough on the d-pad, you can charge mini-turbos by sliding in both directions rather than a single direction, as originally intended.

3. Snaking and space-flight in F-zero GX.

In most of these cases, competitive time trial fan sites made "split tables" for folks that did or did not want to use the exploit. This allowed folks to participate in the way they choose-- many folks play both ways.

The difference is that now, with digital distribution, developers can repeatedly patch their games to fix potential exploits or even alter ship stats or course features. So as is the case with the B-S-B, time trials records that were set in the past may not be comparable to those set now

Personally, I think it SUCKS to have key features of a racing game changed after its initial release. I totally understand why it makes sense from a developer/publisher/marketer perspective. But it really eliminates the "level playing field" that home consoles previously provided to gamers.

[lunar]

What was the Moa Rev shortcut or glitch? I`m interested to know that.

Although it looks like they might need another update to really get rid of BSB if they want to, SL have done some of the work to fix some of the bugs, glitches, exploits and what they seem to see as "undesirable techniques" in the game, so it would be rational to fix the tables when that work is done, or all that work is fairly pointless. If you`re not going to sort the tables then why get rid of BSB in the first place? You might as well just let people carry on doing it. Just working on the game and not the tables is only half the job - the tables need to be about reflecting performances in the game you have, not a different and older version of it.

Perhaps Sony think that such a small percentage of players ever get concerned about this sort of thing that it simply isn`t worth the time and money to fix it all properly.

But I do agree with OBH about a scoreboard reset. I can`t think of any other way to get rid to get rid of undesirable results and scores that would really work. It would be unfair to some people with great times, but how could you work out a more complicated solution, getting rid of unfair times only, without it being a nightmare in the end. Who decides ultimately what should be deleted and what should not? It`s impossible.

Also how does a reset actually work? How do you stop old times from just being uploaded again?

[yeldar2097]

well since SL have blocked the hole I reckon it's a glitch because they're perfectly aware that shortcuts exist and I reckon that one wasn't meant to be there...

tbh as it stands i'd rather have leaderboards that actually work as opposed to cleansed boards...this sporadic updatage is getting on my nerves...

[XBARNSTERX]

Yeah first priority should be making sure they actually update. Anulpha, metropia, chenghou, sebenco both forward and reverse,dont update aswell as amp rev, modesto rev, tech rev, mallavo and either syncopia or pro tozo just wont update at all.

[OBH]

If it was considered a glitch isnt that even more of a reason to remove the times??
It is really harsh on those who really pushed to master the technique, and I cant stress enough how impressed I am by the skills required to do them, but you just cant have record times topping a leaderboard that use a feature that no longer exists. Its like removing boosts as an item altogether yet keeping multiplayer times the same. It just doesnt work.

@lunar
The Moa Therma Shortcut for you mate

@ Darkdrium777
Theres no need to take an agressive "moral highground" on the issue mate. Dont take it so personally, Im just saying theres not much difference between boosting over half a track mid-race, and using select to earn a free barrel roll. Theres no need to to be so quick to damn those who strive to be quicker.

As for the "Amphi-scenic Route", yes it does prove SL had shortcuts in mind, but thats the only built-in-shortcut im aware of (though correct me if im wrong), and im sure your well aware of the many more that exist. That is just one example.

@pirahpac
We might not have always seen eye-to-eye, but I cant help but admire the dedication mate

edit:
Didnt realise syncopia or pro tozo dont update at all. Thats shocking.