Wipeout World Cup 2009

[KIGO1987]

Get INFAXSU and packetmons arses on to HD. They represent the US.

[KGB]

I've no problem with your idea Mad-ice, just suggesting another way, there are always seeded teams in competitions, which are normally designed to see the best teams through to the final. If that's fair or not, i don't know.

I would of thought this would of eradicated the problem of which players were in which division, it might be conceived as a lower class. I will use France as an example again. Could you pick four of them to be in the top division and leave the others out. there is a wealth of talent there that shouldn't be ignored. I'm saying this as an English man that i would be happy for France to have 4 teams in the comp and England to have 2.

Just an idea mate thats all.

I'm getting the feeling that we should just decide between the few people posting here and everyone else will probably go along with whatever is decided. I hope.

[Amorbis]

You can put me down for team England. I should be available whenever you need me.

I think both Mad-Ice's and KGB's ideas work great. Mad-Ice's idea of having multiple divisions will let everyone that wants to race be able to have a chance of competing in some form. Although the idea of knock out stages in some sort of final would work well, too. Teams with the most points were to compete in a knock out final somehow I don't know if I'm making much sense, but I'm trying to think of an idea of having the best of both ideas.

[Feisar31]

I'm certainly interested, although I'm also wary about committing to something long-term like this.

I'm afraid I don't fully understand Mad-Ice's proposed system; I think the idea of divisions could work, but in my opinion the World Cup should go to the Division 1 champions, period. A different trophy could be awarded to the team with the most points across all the divisions. I just don't believe those points should be considered too representative since we don't know how many people from each country will even be interested or able to race in the lower divisions. In other words, skill may not be the biggest factor in determining those additional points.

We should also keep in mind that (as in any FPS clan) each team will need to have reserve players available. There are a million reasons why someone might not be able to make a race. If we use a system with rounds then the replacement players could simply move up from the lower division for that round; of course those players probably shouldn't race in both divisions in the same round.

Not to raise yet another issue, but I take it all the races would be 8 players, 2 teams of 4 versus 4? If so that's OK with me, but I do wonder whether that would necessarily be the best way. After all, Wipeout is not exactly a team game like football. I don't know what those other country vs. country tournaments were like: is it every man for himself? I would hate to have to think twice about using a quake.

[SaturnReturn]

To pick up on one of Feisar's points - I'd rather see 4 players per match. Close races between 8 players become a lag lottery IMO. Any 4 player races I've been in have seemed a lot fairer, still just as close, and generally more measured and tactical. But I'm sure that will be a hugely unpopular suggestion, and it's not so much the case for non-weapons races. If you did 2vs2 by splitting 4 man teams up between weapons races and non-weapons races then each country/team would have to make a tactical decision about who is the fastest and who are the best warriors. I like tactics!

So much to discuss/plan/agree etc.

[KGB]

I may be dead by the time we agree on this.

At the moment there are only three teams capable of putting out a team.

I will repeat: leave a message here and i will update the list

[KIGO1987]

Put me down for team AUNZ. I should be available on the weekends, just PM me in advance to inform me. But its going to get busy for me in a few weeks time. But ill always make time for a bit of Wipeout here and there.

[KGB]

Already entered you mate, you don't have a choice

Ask your fellow countrymen if they want in please KIGO.

[OBH]

heres an idea, not saying its best, but its different -

Rather than 2 teams of 4 in a race, have 4 teams of 2. Nations with fewer players can then get involved.

Play a few tornies over x number of weeks, and the top 2 teams go through.

Nations with bigger numbers are split into teams of 2, and placed in the same group, guarenteeing only half will qualify from round 1 ( another way would be creating the 2 teams AT THE END of round 1 based on the top 4 positions - pos.1 & pos.2, pos.3 & pos.4 ).

this is the only method i could think of to include every player in every race, and to include rivalries wthin nations

[djKyoto]

Thats a pretty cool idea, teams of two.

Oh, add me for ANZAC, whatever.

Btw OBH, you better get your Head-to-Head Cup races done soon.

[Mad-Ice]

I'm afraid I don't fully understand Mad-Ice's proposed system; I think the idea of divisions could work, but in my opinion the World Cup should go to the Division 1 champions, period.

We should also keep in mind that (as in any FPS clan) each team will need to have reserve players available. There are a million reasons why someone might not be able to make a race. If we use a system with rounds then the replacement players could simply move up from the lower division for that round; of course those players probably shouldn't race in both divisions in the same round.

Not to raise yet another issue, but I take it all the races would be 8 players, 2 teams of 4 versus 4? If so that's OK with me, but I do wonder whether that would necessarily be the best way. After all, Wipeout is not exactly a team game like football. I don't know what those other country vs. country tournaments were like: is it every man for himself? I would hate to have to think twice about using a quake.

The world cup will go to the DIVISION 1 champion, period.

Reserve player yes. After the qualifier rounds in every country we know who are the 4 or 8 or even 12 fastest pilots of a nation. We have to know in which order they are fast. Like from fastest number 1 pilot up onto number 12. So the reserve players for DIVISION 1 are the 2 fastest pilots from DIVISION 2. The reserve players for DIVISION 2 are the number 3 and 4 fastest pilots of DIVISION 1 and the 2 fastest pilots from DIVISION 3.

To pick up on one of Feisar's points - I'd rather see 4 players per match. Close races between 8 players become a lag lottery IMO. Any 4 player races I've been in have seemed a lot fairer, still just as close, and generally more measured and tactical. But I'm sure that will be a hugely unpopular suggestion, and it's not so much the case for non-weapons races. If you did 2vs2 by splitting 4 man teams up between weapons races and non-weapons races then each country/team would have to make a tactical decision about who is the fastest and who are the best warriors. I like tactics!

So much to discuss/plan/agree etc.

Still we will all be in this so called lag lottery! With 4 pilots a team who are earning points it will be so close and exiting to race. It will be really working like a team, helping each other, with using weapons or not at the right time.

Rather than 2 teams of 4 in a race, have 4 teams of 2. Nations with fewer players can then get involved.

Play a few tornies over x number of weeks, and the top 2 teams go through.

Nations with bigger numbers are split into teams of 2, and placed in the same group, guarenteeing only half will qualify from round 1 ( another way would be creating the 2 teams AT THE END of round 1 based on the top 4 positions - pos.1 & pos.2, pos.3 & pos.4 ).

this is the only method i could think of to include every player in every race, and to include rivalries wthin nations

I like your idea about 4 countries in a tour. 2 players from each country! Eventhough it would mean less strategy to use your weapons. If there are 3 other players from your country on the track, you really have to think twice about when to use your weapons or not! I really like that too. However if we do 2 pilots a team, we will have less races, but we can use a knockout system like KGB suggested and the Division system of me.

[OBH]

Do we really need "divisions" as such? it doesnt give all pilots a fair chance (or any chance at all to be honest!!) at competing for the highest honors.

I thought we should all enter round 1 on a totally level playing field, but filter the slowest into their own knockout system afterwards. Quality players, from any nation, shouldnt need to sit out, or be entered into a lower division just because of the numbers.

[Mad-Ice]

At osama: All the pilots get a chance when they are racing to qualify for the fastest team for their own nation. If the fastest team of their nation is formed then they will fight for the highest honors. So every qualification is already part of the World Wipeout HD tournament 2009.

But anyway: I think we can discuss the rules untill the end of 2009, but we have to agree at one point in time. Maybe we have to make a pole on who's rules should be used?

I updated my rules on page 8.

[lunar]

I`m not really involved in this, but this is how it looks to me: In any other World Cup, be it football, rugby, cricket or synchronized swimming, a nation enters one team which is made up of its best available players in order to see which nation can field the strongest team. Surely the Wipeout World Cup should be the same. You don`t get France B or England C in any other world cup because it`s an elite competition. If you get B and C teams its not really a world cup designed to find the best players, it`s an international tournament. I think it`s up to each country to decide its own selection process via competition if necessary. That way everyone gets a chance to play if they want it, but world cups are for the best players or they aren`t world cups. It`s supposed to be elitist. I wouldn`t have a hope of making any England or UK team, but c`est la vie, that`s the nature of such a competition. If I want to make the team I know what I have to do. Anyway I think if people are going to have a world cup that`s the only logical way to do it.

I might try and find some Italian heritage though. I always cheer for the Azzuri in football if England aren`t involved. Rom, does this count me as Italian if you are short of pilots?

I`d also like to add that complex rules and tournaments probably won`t work. In online competitions its hard enough just getting two teams together at the same time to play each other in a one-off contest, nevermind anything more complex. So a simple and "elite" world cup is more likely to actually work.

[il_NIK]

...
I might try and find some Italian heritage though. I always cheer for the Azzuri in football if England aren`t involved. Rom, does this count me as Italian if you are short of pilots?

I`d also like to add that complex rules and tournaments probably won`t work...

(SURE)


I love English football (better than the italians one, like all of us surely know!).


And


You're WELCOME in Italy and into Italian Team!! Obviously...

[KGB]

I think I might struggle to get in the top four as well Lunar, that is why I'm frantically trying to find a way i can participate.

In order to get the best pilots in each team we will have to decide amongst ourselves, which i don't have a problem with generally. As it stands at the moment though i wouldn't even say we have all of the ten best pilots in HD signed up for it, I'm trying to be pro-active and asking lots of people but there seems to be a slight reticence to come forward.

Maybe this World Cup as it stands won't get off the ground, perhaps it is best to just have teams of friends together, that way everyone who wants to play can. More of a clan type of thing.

We are not doing very well here are we.

Mad-Ice: I really hope discussing the rules does not go on all year . I thought we might of come to an agreement in the next week or so.

[andybob35]

Hi all! Just my thoughts.. It should be the best 4 racers of each country. I know there some country's which have more than 4 racers, so they should decide amongst themselves who's in and who's out (mini tourney's if needed).

Best 4 players make the team and the rest become subs (granted some teams will have about 6-10 subs others just one or two) as im sure real-life events will take presidence.

@Team England: I would like to take part but i know that im not as consistent as i once was, thus greenix, wellyington should definitly be in. Im happy as a sub 4 the mo... although would love to win against a few country's/players (u know who u are )

@Everyone else: Spread the word, IM, PSN etc.

[KGB]

Well i have added you to the list Andybob35 now. EDIT: I have added all of team England. Hope you don't mind.

If we could all agree on the 4 pilots per country thing then that would be great. I will go with the flow. Everyone has their opinions which are all valid.

Who knows how to start a vote?

The 4 best pilots OR Multiple teams. which is better. FIGHT!!!!!!

[SaturnReturn]

EPSILON - I would suggest you take the lead. I know you want it to be everyone's Cup but there has to be someone in charge. It's your idea so I think it would be good if you could make some of these initial decisions. If you don't want to make the decisions alone then appoint a small group of people you trust to make decisions by democratic vote.

Unless decisions can be made, nothing is ever going to happen.

[blackwiggle]

MAD ICE:
I have re read your proposal regarding the points system.
It makes sense to me now [relief]

So basically this points system should be used in qualifying by each country to get a final ranking for each pilot that races during qualifying for their countries team.

These points [rankings] are then sent to the Word Cup organizers.
Then the WC organizers post a list for each county with those divisions and which racers are in DIV 1 DIV 2 etc and their ranking within that division.

OK,that makes sense.

Then the same points system can be used in the actual WC playoff's for when two opposing countries race against each other,in their respective divisions.

OK,that makes sense too.

I'll agree to that,it seems the fairest way to go about things.

Assuming all other countries agree to this format.

We would need to decide on a few other matters.
Firstly we need a head of tournament that has final decision and will rule on any disputes,preferably somebody not actually racing in the WC [LANCE perhaps]

1]How will the draw go regarding which country plays which?

2]Who will decide what dates and times that these races occur?[it needs to be the governing body of the WC otherwise this tournament will take forever]
I propose a window over 4 days that each country has to decide between them which day/time to race,it must be completed within that time.

3]Who decides which country hosts these races [I propose one country hosts no weapons the other with] it evens the LAG situation up.

4]We need a rule regarding Defaults,[one country not being able to have enough racers for a particular event[subs are not available etc] when the other team has them all]

5]A secondary date for an event[agreed in advance between competing countries] in case the WOHD servers are down.

6]A list of who heads each countries team [this will save time in organization/messaging etc]

That's covers most situations I can think of ATM,except for one.

Will there be a GOLDEN THUMB award for the best individual pilot during the World Cup [WOHD equivalent of the Golden Boot]