Does Fusion deserve a remake?

PROJECT CANCELLED

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<sup>For the past week or so, I have been trying to figure out whether or not it would be worth the effort to remake WipEout Fusion for a modern platform, giving not just a raw graphical face-lift but also making changes to the gameplay in order to facilitate for a more enjoyable experience without deviating too far from the established WipEout canon. Unfortunately, with my lack of skills and inability to draw sufficient interest to assemble a development team, this project is currently grounded entirely in the Hypotheticals and Planning stage.

So I figured I would take to WipEout Zone instead, and ask around in a more official capacity. It already has a very mixed reception, and I fully agree that the game has a lot of problems, but it is still one of the most important leaps in the franchise. It took risks, and introduced many concepts that have altered the series as a whole. More importantly, though, it also produced a significant amount of lore for the WipEout universe, helping solidify the world in which later games take place.

Does anybody here believe Fusion deserves a remake, a second chance as it were? Besides upgrades in visual fidelity, what changes would need to be made to the gameplay to preserve the atmosphere and lore while maximizing overall enjoyability? Speak up, and maybe this dream can become a reality.

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I do intend on actually going through with this once I can get the manpower and legal authorization. As it stands, I am the only person on board, and my talents seem to be limited at the moment. We would need both a modeler and a programmer at the very minimum.

Please share your thoughts on the matter below, as well as any relevant material you wish to share. Reading material, sketches, personal feedback and ideas, anything and everything to get the conversation going.

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Relevant threads and videos:

Discussion on the possibility of making a new WipEout game that isn't a mere port or remaster:
What would it take to make a NEW WipEout?

Here, people discuss both the good and the bad things about WipEout Fusion in greater detail.
I for one, accept WipEout Fusion. Thoughts?
Why is WipEout Fusion hated?

Previous discussion about the game's aesthetic, artwork and screenshots:
Is it just me, or does WipEout Fusion look more "Old"?
Artwork Request
Screenshots of the various ships in Fusion

Discussion about remaking Florian Heights:
Who wants to see Florian Heights return?

Here, people mod the existing PS2 version of the game. This is a good way to prototype new ideas pertaining to gameplay, such as adjusting the physics and reworking the balance.
Reverse Engineering

This thread discusses what the developers of Fusion originally had in mind while making the game, and why they had to make certain sacrifices.
Early vision of WipEout Fusion

These threads deal mostly with emulation and playing the game on new hardware, though the video does show just how well WipEout Fusion's existing graphics stand up to modern standards when played at a higher-than-native resolution. Meanwhile, a patch is demonstrated that fixes the game's awkward zoom when playing in Widescreen mode, which makes the game a lot more playable.
Widescreen Patches (PCSX2 Forums)
New gear got Fusion running at 1080p and 3D!
Fusion on PC
http://youtu.be/Rv8noYDPaBs

And finally, we have some threads which deal with the lore surrounding the game. These are especially important due to changes in the WipEout timeline with the release of Fury, Omega Collection and 2048. It would be a good idea to use these as a reference when developing the remake.
After Fusion, was AG racing forgotten about?
AG League + Backstory Analysis
WipEout Timeline Redux
WipEout Chronicles (fan-canon)

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Like I said above, remember to add search tags to this thread. Anything to help exposure.</sup>

I'll help. I liked fusion. Wasn't my favorite but I loved it all the same.

Hi !

A remake would be a fantastic idea ! And, tbh, I had the idea of a Fusion remake in my mind for a while.

I really loved Fusion because it was the very first Fusion I owned, even though the 1st I played was Wip3out.

It is the game which made me a WipEout addict. Since then, I played and finished every WipEout game of the franchise and that's why I understand the hate on Fusion: the gameplay... and the ships' designs

But I find it kind of sad, because this game had such a great potential. And when you think about the backstory etc... I think a remake should be made to honor the F9000 era.

That's why I'd like a remake to be made ! Unfortunately, I am like you, lot of ideas, but no programing skills... However I love to draw, and I imagined, a year ago, a more modern looking FEISAR for the F9000. Inspired by both a German BF109 (the two nose guns) and modern F1 with the tail (which we can't really see from this perspective) Attachment 10832

I think the tracks' design was actually pretty good, I also liked the ads etc... But the tracks were too generic... I mean, Florion Height had a loop and I think there should be only one track to have one. There shouldn't be one on Alca Vexus nor Cubiss Float. Each track should really have their unique part.

That's why I think we should remain some tracks and also the variant system. We should vote for the best race of each location and then create some brand ne tracks, in new locations.

Changing ships and tracks wouldn't hurt the continuity and the canon thing of this remake: Fusion is set in 2160, so let's set this remake in 2168/69, so 1-2 year before the Fall.

Look at F1: Existing since the 50s but tracks and cars have changed since then, and it remains the same league. And if WipEout was real, I do think it would work like this too. Do you imagine that there are about 30 or 40 years between F3600 and F5000, so tracks ships and even rules must have changed during the F3600 era.

So we may change lot of things in a remake.

So what should be done is: better looking ships (Honestly: does the Auricom look like a racing ship ? They all look old, and not in a good way... and some even look like they are from FZero)

So: more WipEoutish, modern, better looking ships

New tracks and removal of the worst ones. And a HD/2048 handling style. The physics of the first three game wouldn't work but IMO the physic of HD or 2048 should work.

And... That's all... For the moment ^^

I'd like to help if this remake thing becomes real, but the only thing I can do is some drawings /sketches fo ships if you like them, someone more competent thant me will have to modelize them ^^

<sup>Your attachment link is invalid, you'll have to reupload it.

I actually want to respect the original art style as much as I can while keeping things up to modern standards, but I hope I can see your picture soon (try joining the BallisticNG Discord and sharing it in the WipEout channel)

I have a lot of ambitious plans for a remake, but I need to find a proper means of organizing everything. Like I said, I want to be as faithful to the original game as I can as far as the current ships and tracks go (except those stupid bulkheads). Replacing or relocating tracks, changing when the game takes place, and giving ships radical designs that barely resemble the originals all fall into Reboot territory.</sup>

I reuploaded it, hope it works this time :)

You are right my idea is more a reboot than a remake. But I get what you want to do and it does sound like a great idea, you'll have my support if I can help !

<sup>That ship does more closely resemble their design from the F7200. I think I spotted the FX400 FEISAR logo in there.

I think the best place to start for the time being... Would be to rip existing models and tracks from WipEout Fusion and get them running in Unreal Engine 4. Once we have a modeler, we can worry about new visual assets.

Right now, a programmer is the highest priority.</sup>

Well first of all someone needs to extract the assets. That’s probably already quite a feat to accomplish. I’m also guessing a WOHD/WO2048 handling (minus barrel rolls and side shifting, maybe even without absorbing) is what probably fits best with WOF – although I’m ready to be taught otherwise and see how it works with WO3’s.
The guys from BallisticNG are probably our best bet to get things going. They’ve done a fantastic job with both classic and modern WipEout physics, so that’s a good start, too.
Even if they get the tracks into Unity there’s probably still a massive amount of manual tweaking to be done. The game won’t work without magstrips and those have to be assigned and tested. There’s also a good chance collision boundaries have to be redefined. The AI must be tweaked, too.
The game has eight environments with a total of 45 tracks – there’s probably work to do for every one of those, even if they share the same assets.

And that doesn’t even take into account any cosmetic changes such as texture up res, advanced shaders, effects and animations, yet alone remodeling.
And we haven’t even talked about track selection, leagues, potential campaigns and all that – basically what makes it a game.

There’s nothing I’d like to see more than WOF getting the credit it deserves with a remake. There’s so much that makes the game great – even more so in retrospective. I could talk for hours about that and I’ve written many, many words about it on this very board. There’s so much potential.

So yeah, hopefully someone successfully extracts the track data at least. I’m looking forward to see a ship doing its first lap on Florion Height. Let all the the stuff that make it a real, full-fledged game come after that.

I have an idea about the handling: it could be floaty at slow speeds and more precise as the speed increases. The ships are very fast so I think the difference would become noticeable. Also the speed loss during collisions with walls should be increased to give the player a reason to slow down. I hope the tracks are suitable for this.
I don't know what I'm saying, I haven't actually played Fusion.

The ships are unbalanced so to avoid seeing Piranha everywhere you could either nerf some ships and buff others or use a performance restriction like in Gran Turismo. Each
car has a number which represents its performance, it can't race in an event if it exceeds the limit.

Add me to the people with ideas but not programming skils.

^{Vehicle rating is very reminiscent of the Asphalt games. I'm not sure how well that would fit in WipEout, to be honest, but I suppose it is something to be considered; I was actually thinking something similar, though it is closer to just adding speed classes to the game, and perhaps making some higher end vehicles not available in lower speed classes, while the lower end ones wouldn't be available in higher end speed classes without first being upgraded.}

I don't think it needs any new content other than HD graphics, textures, and 4k resolution support. However, I jumped the gun on my vote, the game could use something new. A Dynasty Mode, you play as a team manager for a set number of seasons, features including spectator/director's mode, B-Spec Control ala Gran Turismo 4; take control of your team's lead/second pilot at any time before/during a race, helps if you know how to outsmart Tigron's power plays; and substitutions, now you have more than one set of pilots which helps if either the lead and/or second pilot of one set is fatigued/incapacitated by any means of injury or illness.

In short, Dynasty Mode adds a degree of strategy, in lieu of the aggressive action. Which I think is missing from the franchise.

<sup>I like your line of thinking, though I will admit... An increased focus on logistics does seem a tad ambitious. However, anything that can significantly increase the player's sense of immersion without disturbing the flow of actual gameplay earns a Germanium Medal in my book. (I really do hope we can pull all this off...)

I have been thinking a fair bit about music. There are three particularly amazing musicians who, if we could get them to agree to the contributing to the project (or at the very minimum, get permission from them to adapt some of their work), then it would definitely help the feel of the game a lot. When you get the chance, look up Neurodancer, Hoffman and Alexander Brandon; like CoLD SToRAGE, these guys are all legends when it comes to making music in Tracker formats, and I feel like using a module-based format would give us a lot of flexibility with the soundtrack that we wouldn't otherwise have. Not to mention, I just really love the crunchy style of sequenced music~

As for engines, I am really thinking that Unreal Engine 4 might be the way to go. Based on some prior research, not only is it well optimized and free to use (as long as you don't go commercial), it is packed with cutting edge features that make it incredibly easy to work with, and could also give the game a very nice visual style. VXGI, anyone?

Well, that is all for tonight. Thank you all for generating some interest here. As always, remember to tag the thread; this will really increase the odds of it getting traffic.

QUICK UPDATE:
I found some old videos which might actually be relevant to the discussion, and to game design as a whole. Check them out when you get the chance!

Extra Credits: Perfect Imbalance
http://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w

Extra Credits: Power Creep
https://youtu.be/Bxszx60ZwGw

Extra Credits: Spectacle Creep
https://youtu.be/pKzJWoZWMOI

Design Club: Why Mario Kart's most hated item exists*
https://youtu.be/LFFGA8-3SZI
*WipEout's closest equivalent would be the Hunter Missile in Fusion.</sup>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amaroq Dricaldari

As for engines, I am really thinking that Unreal Engine 4 might be the way to go. Based on some prior research, not only is it well optimized and free to use (as long as you don't go commercial), it is packed with cutting edge features that make it incredibly easy to work with, and could also give the game a very nice visual style. VXGI, anyone?

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UE4 is not for the faint hearted, learning curve is really steep :P

^{This won't have to be a one-man job, there are people out there who know how to use it. Once I get some more time on my hands, and a better computer, I am going to start learning how to actually use it.}

Using UE is a great way to guarantee that your game won't run on anything other than reasonable high end PCs, regardless of the amount of detail you put in your game. You need to be very experienced with it in order to optimize your game in such a way that enables more than a handful portion of the gamer market to play your game. What makes UE easier to use is also what makes it stupidly heavy.

C++ skills + complexity of the engine is what made me to forget about it, also I've been trying to see if the asset system could be extended for custom formats but it appeared to be not possible.

so it's a great engine but dev. time is muuuuuuch longer

<sup>Unreal Engine 4 seems to do just fine on the PlayStation 4.

So far, the development priorities in order of highest to lowest:
- Build basic game logic and gameplay elements into an engine
- Generate art and sound assets and begin playtesting
- Establish a basic front-end and continue playtesting
- Polish and refine the gameplay by ironing out all the bugs and balance issues
- Establish other game modes and use the same playtesting process
- Revise the game further to make it more open to newer players without removing the challenge for more experienced players
- Work to optimize the game for both competitive and casual play, either via two separate modes, or through other carefully designed and balanced mechanics
- Revise the front-end further and work on increasing immersion wherever possible
- Expand on the lore and make it easily available to the player
- Finalize art and sound assets, including soundtrack</sup>

It does but there's a paid-army of coders/designers,

Back to a hobby project, In my case of a quest to an open source engine Wipeout named WXX Rebirth,

Beside bigsnake that rolled out his engine a while ago but for numerous reasons I didn't extend because in the mean time I've RE-ed the rest of files; there were a few people with access to the repo. but nobody ever committed anything, so I've been alone the whole time and the project simply stalled, even though all assets were already available (though they had to be rolled out differently since it's PSX formats). Even more, there's not even any motivating posts from users, let alone people that would actively participate ...

So you have an ideal but then there's reality, and unless people are paid, very few if none will get in the game. The exception is BNG and it's where people have drifted to.

Tip : grab as many trustable ppl as you can first, then start consider dreaming :)

Nothing personal, bro, it's just my experience I was extremely optimistic with in the beginning, then reality brought me back I guess almost 3 years now on ... I worked my ass off reversing formats, get the infrastructure up but no real game is up to now and as time is passing it's waning.

Personally I'd summarize all of your steps to 5:
-get ppl that will really work on the project
-get the assets up,
-build a preliminary engine,
-implement a real game skeleton (menu, sound etc ...),
-polish
(and with UE4 your a raising the bar very high for potential committers: C++, expertise, lot more time than C#/Unity, even though I know C++ I still find UE daunting)

ps you have a preliminary demo here : http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...cial-Edition-!

<sup>The talent exists, but there is no way to get the word out to anyone who would actually be willing to help this project come to life; after all, taking the worst, most hated game in the entire series and trying to salvage it would not earn anybody respect. Quite the opposite, it would just warn everybody who worked on it the scorn of the community.

Besides, Sony would never publish a fan project and would be a lot more likely to just give the game and Cease and Desist. They don't even care about the WipEout series enough to advertise it.

This project is being cancelled until further notice. I apologize to everyone who voted in favor.</sup>

sorry about that decision, but don't be negative :)

yesterday I've decided to (deliberately) suspend mine for an indefinite amount of time, and now started to contribute to BNG :) got in touch with its author and he opened the doors to me (okay I knew him for quite some time, he already used some of my stuff, I've reversed lots of things, and I've been very clear in my position in the staff: to try bring original WO tracks to BNG, I'd strictly focus on this, he'll focus on his, i.e. a good deal)

may i suggest that maybe you should try hook to another (already up) project ? obviously it has to spark your interest, need to see if you'll fit in but it'll always be a new experience for you.

i didn't meant to be negative nor discourage you with my previous post, rather critical

You know it took more than a year for SSGX development, for example, to get in gear, right? You didn't even wait 4 days and you're already canning the project?

<sup>SSGX never came out, though, and in fact it has completely ceased all development. All anyone on this forum seems to care about these days is Steam workshop support and emulating the exact appearance of the original PlayStation's crappy integer-based rendering pipeline with no support for basic shaders.

There is no reason to continue trying to make a remake that will just get ignored, and even some of the more original stuff like Formula Fusion is just being ignored and/or hated on for no other reason than people here thinking it sucks.

If anyone else wants to take up the job of making a WipEout Fusion Remake, then go ahead.</sup>

Since you can download and play SlipStream GX, I'd say it did come out, albeit without as much as could be in there. Calm down.

Uh... Formula Fusion is definitely not being ignored as it was warranted a subforum.

<sup>Yeah, ages ago. The subforum never got removed, but most people in the WipEout community either don't pay attention to it or straight up hate it, just because it was a little disappointing in the beginning which seemed to ruin its reputation as a whole.

Like I said, I'll let somebody who is not me go into development of this project, on their own terms, according to their own vision. Somebody who actually has the talent to get the job done. As far as a WipEout Fusion Remake is actually concerned, this thread has never happened and I had absolutely nothing to do with it.</sup>