10 Things I hate about WipEout Pulse

To me, WipEout is Wip3out. I loved that game despite the force wall and shield/boost mechanic.

I'd like to take the side that favours BR, if we consider WipEout as the evolution of F1, well they keep coming up with new tricks and technology to increase the speed on track. If you want a scientific reason for the BR boost, its a Kinitec Overcharge Device that causes a 100% increase in power from the potential energy created by the barrel motion.

If the BR worked 100% of the time, and that isn't helped by the awful Phat PSP D-Pad, then I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

The best explanation for all AG technology that I've ever seen is the Douglas Adams quote: "hovering in the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't". :D:D:D

when I first heard about the magstrips in pulse I was a bit sceptical
but as they massively cut the BRs - I love them.

that about BRs

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?
although we don't notice it big amount of time on magstrips we are racing 90¤ from the ground or in a loop up and down!
so could it be gravity that is pulling our leg?
actually I'm not sure about that, it's just a feeling I got :D
might be wrong ..

Good to know the race times in tours will be adressed.

the fact that you can't see which races a tournament contains but just the number of tracks
for me is totally OK. I think the surprise factor is a good thing to keep on your toes the first time you'll race it.
let's face it it ought to be some of the new track on that grid, right? it's not much to it :)
I can see the races on infra. that's enough for me :+

the menu.
Awesome! I'm not a designer and i think it looks ok. i like even the wo3 menu design :p
I like it coz it is functional! also I like minimalism.
pures menu might have been more pure but was a real pain as well.
there were several issues in pures menues
like you couldn't go back to see the race standing after you went to the tour standing in a tournament.
I was so late in to pure so I figured it wasn't worth bitching about it :)

pulse is so much better for example you can go from the first choice in the menu to the bottom choice just by pressing up.
also some menues 'remember' your last choices like what track you raced last on infra, if you are the mod there.


mmm .. later!

gotta go get my infra fix now! ;)

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Originally Posted by zargz

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?

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i was thinking the same thing and will test that out now.

/edit:
i tried moa therma because it has both a vertical and a horizontal magstrip
-) projectiles are not deflected on horizontal magstrips
-) projectiles get deflected upwards in the vertical looping part

gonna try de konstruct now to see for vertical non-bendt magstrips

/edit2:
well ... im not entirely sure that de konstructs magstrips are vertical,
but the projectiles dont get deflected on the straigt part of the magstrip.
but as soon they are on the curved part, they get deflected towards "up".
up refers to the real upwards direction ... at least i think it is.


actually i even think this should be physically correct, at least if you
leave out friction effects. but i might be wrong ... i only study physics.

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground (so it's basically a big hairpin with a 90 degree camber).
On the white version you'll see the ground to your right and the sky to your left, and vice versa on the black version.

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Originally Posted by Hail Seizure

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground.

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that would make it vertical, no? i mean the lateral axis of the track is standing upright. not like in vertica where the lateral axis of the track is still horizontal.

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

I guess its personal preference at the end of the day not just in terms of barrel rolls or not, but in terms of what Wipeout is. Does the inclusion of Barrel rolsl mean its not truly Wipeout... not for me, I think that is quite over the top. but then my defnition of wipeout is mine, and not yours.

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My beef with barrel rolls is that they add a blatantly contrived element to the gameplay. Why should spinning the ship around give me a speed boost? There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up. The speed boost thing was covered - if I want to go faster in addition to those speed boosts then it's up to me to play the game well.

I think the rest of the stuff done in WipEout (force walls from WipEout 3 and Quake aside) just seems so much more considered than barrel rolls. If doing a barrel roll gives you a speed boost, why stop there? Rumble Racing was doing back flips, barrel rolls and insane twist combinations for turbo boosts in a racing game back in 2001. If being cutting edge and re-inventing things with every new edition was the name of the game then surely Gran Turismo should have ramps and short cuts by now? Surely we should be doing flat-spins, front and back flips, and any combination of that lot in WipEout.

With barrel rolls we also have this game mechanic that is essential to perform in order to achieve a fast lap time. However, by your own admission, it sometimes doesn't work because of a frame rate dip. So you can be performing an otherwise perfect lap, only to miss a barrel roll for whatever reason - was it me? was it a frame rate dip? is it being caused by the disappearing HUD bug? (couldn't BR at the Amphiseum at all last night and I had the broken HUD bug.)

In WipEout 3 I could consistently get close to my fastest lap times. Occasionally I'd put it all together for all of the laps and set a new record. It felt under my control. With barrel rolls and their fallibility, I don't feel like I am truly in charge of a good lap. I feel like a need a fluke of a race where I nail all the barrel rolls. And when I miss one I feel like I've been robbed of an otherwise spotless performance.

We also have the risk in multiplayer whereby the player at the back of a pack has less chance of executing a barrel roll than a guy at the front of the pack. The player who needs it most can be denied it because their console is drawing more on the screen and their frame rate is more likely to dip. That isn't something that's true of any other other aspect of the game - weapons, thrust, absorb (which I think is a good replacement for pit lanes, by the way - that's evolution) can be relied upon to perform when the player needs them to.

So, what if we fix the frame rate dips and you can flawlessly perform barrel rolls each and every time as if it was merely a button press rather than a button combo. Well, then they become something that's executed with such triviality as to be pointless. It'd be like the up-across-up combo that I use to go from second to third gear when I'm driving my car. Occasionally I miss it and it costs me some time, but 99% of the time it's so automatic that I don't even think about it. Might as well be driving an automatic because it might as well be automatic.

Now, you frequently bring up WipEout 3 and it's use of shield energy as a game mechanic as an example of how that game is not WipEout as you define it. But to me it makes perfect sense. Your ship has a pool of energy that is drawn from to power the shields. You can also borrow from it to give your engines some extra performance, but you risk leaving yourself vulnerable. That seems reasonable to me - risk and reward, and in terms of the game universe it's well thought out.

Force walls I'll give you - they're daft. Not as daft as barrel rolls, but daft I agree.

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

Anyway its nearly xmas can we stop talking about work ? (after your reply which will no douobt bust my balls :( )
I want to know what you are buying me for Christmas Bob ?
:D

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We're not talking about work, we're talking about the game! :D

I was getting you a grand and a pint for xmas... but you'll have to settle for a pint. :beer

I agree with Rob, force walls and barrel rolls ARE DAFT. Hyperthrust from WO3 is a more balanced system if it is reintroduce than SL should make sure that the AI uses it as well, its so easy to cake-walk the AI in phantom class with the use of barrel rolls simply because the AI did not use it.

[off topic but in response to what Colin said before]
For WipEout to be WipEout, there should not be things in the game that are way too over the top or damn right ennoying (other than getting hit by the AI which is pretty much part of the game). That said, it's good to have some elements that are over the top which just make look and think 'wow, that is amazing', for me WipEout Fusion had plenty of those in its track design (other than the trackless sections), it was pretty much let down alot but other elements in the game.[/off topic]

That's a brilliant post infox. Very close to my feelings on weapons in the game.

I agree with you 100% about the hyperthrust feature aswell. It's a delicate comprise when you use it - too much and you're dead, to little and you'll miss out on the top times.

I think that Wipeout should have some pickups. The turbo and the shield are fine for me. I agree aswell, the absorb function is brilliant. All the others however I feel don't fit in that well. Some stand out more than others. Barrell rolls are the same, no reason for them to be in the came. Anything that adds in the element of chance to the game takes away the fun for me.

I thought that Wipeout without weapons would be boring but myself, Stin, Hypershadow, Zargz and TomatoJoe and a great no weapons tournament the other night. Just as exciting as the other weapons tourney we raced.

I'd love to be more elaborate about BRs and the very interesting stuff that's been said, but since right now I don't have the time...

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Originally Posted by Flashback Jack

But Ben, that's the fun part of analyzing tracks

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Naaaw, I have to disagree. :) What it really comes down to is this: To me, what's great about analyzing the track is finding the ideal _racing_ line - not the perfect _stunt_ line. We got Burnout Paradise for that. ;)

Ben

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Originally Posted by infoxicated

There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up.

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yeh, that should cover it. for BRs and shield_for_boost 8)

I wrote a really, really long reply, but based on some of what it says I cant really post it and I havent the time to edit it :) I'll save it for a car journey in the new year :D

In short though, we've had this conversation for ages, we disagree and neither of us are going to change on that. I think they are fun and have a place in Pure and Pulse, you dont. Beyond Pure and Pulse, who knows, maybe the next one with see them dropped or stay or expanded - super wipeout stunt racer extreme FX 500000 ! no probably not.

As for the hyper thrust thing, in short, I dont like the way it plays, I dont like that it forces you to pit every lap (assuming you want to use the thrust to compete) I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop, and the system as it was in WO3 wouldnt work alongside the absorb mechanic, which in my mind works far better than pit-lanes. I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

And you should know me well enough to know 1k cant buy me ! With or without a pint thrown in.

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... . .

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop

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I have to agree completely there, the new 'absorb' system is perhaps one of the best changes to happen to the series' gameplay.

While in theory, I believe the barrel roll mechanic is sound, as my fellow zoners said, its implimentation could use some tweaking. My personal biggest problem with it is how 'random' it is, and that the majority of the fastest laps require a barrel roll in the most akward of places, after the concordia loop on talons junction for example, making it all that more frustrating to get a decent time.

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

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How about rewarding the player boost refills as a reward for hitting opponent with weapon fire and/or perfect sections?

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... .

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Probably not my business, buy I'm guessing you went crazy and got an XBOX 360. The irony; Sony Employee buys rival product!:p

I absolutely hated the pitlanes in the older games, sometimes they would put you right out of contension for a race win, the absorb system is pretty much a stroke of genius the way I see it.

Is it a box of chocolates? Or scorpians? Or... chocolate scorpions?

On pitlanes, yeah I agree on those but, you know, they were a side effect of bringing in the concept of destroying ships which was not a part of the original WO. Actual ship damage was rare enough back then that the pit lane was usually only ever needed if you raced badly and hit the walls - at which point you're probably not going to win anyway and the pit lane makes you even slower so adding double punishment.

Whereas the original WO already had a punishment system in place - time.

So the pit lanes to me are just a symptom of that shift. Absorb system is much better, but the move gathered serious momentum in the meantime.

(I hope Colin reads the Poll thread (that would be the thread "So what is Wipeout to you?" in the Wipeout Future forum) which really answers his question 2 pages back. Because my answer has nothing to do with Pulse and that's what this thread is supposed to be about, haha.)

In the end it's not about what each individual likes/doesn't like, it's about what truly defines WipEout as a great and incredibly unique game. I hope the designers try to keep to its uniqueness and never toss in new components only for the sake of "keeping it fresh" or "making it friendly for beginners".

}agrees with Medusa{

}and loves boost for shield since it adds so much to the tactics and decision making{

In terms of boost for shield, thankfully the barrel rolls are limited by where you can pull them off.

i do like boost for shield AND barrel rolls.
what noone has thought of here ... what if barrel rolls would cost more energy (like ... 30%) and you could do them anywhere you like.
this way they kinda would work like boost for shield. they should be harder to pull off aswell so it really requires skill to use them.


the way i see it, they bacame even more powerful in pulse, as you now can take all the speed you get from brs around corners. thats something that didn't work out in pure.

Making them harder to do only makes Foxy's point more relevant (which I completely agree with). Miss one barrel roll when you're going for a top time and you may as well restart.

As for being able to do it anywhere and cost more energy, that would make a current problem much, much worse. I'm just mopping up the last of the golds in Pulse (have 5 left). Now I should point out that I'm not the greatest WO player by a long shot. But on those Phantom tournaments, there are pretty much only two outcomes in each race for me - 1st, or eliminated. If I survive, I'm usually way ahead of the pack. So it's not about racing in those ones. It's just about being lucky to survive.

If you make the boost/shield available anywhere, that would mean that would pretty much always be the case. It's do or die. 1st or eliminated.

Personally, I don't think that's fun.

Theres one other small issue I have to mention, the horrible colors on the Zone tracks, I find it really hard to make out some parts of Platinum Rush white on Zone mode because of the blinding bright blue, frustrating to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

I wrote a really, really long reply, but based on some of what it says I cant really post it and I havent the time to edit it :) I'll save it for a car journey in the new year :D

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Shame... you could have pm'd me :)

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

In short though, we've had this conversation for ages, we disagree and neither of us are going to change on that. I think they are fun and have a place in Pure and Pulse, you dont. Beyond Pure and Pulse, who knows, maybe the next one with see them dropped or stay or expanded - super wipeout stunt racer extreme FX 500000 ! no probably not.

As for the hyper thrust thing, in short, I dont like the way it plays, I dont like that it forces you to pit every lap (assuming you want to use the thrust to compete) I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop, and the system as it was in WO3 wouldnt work alongside the absorb mechanic, which in my mind works far better than pit-lanes. I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

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I like the absorb system - removing pit lanes keeps you on the track and keeps you racing. Plus it takes away the tedium of having to limp around the track to get to the pit lane when your energy is critical.

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Originally Posted by Colin Berry

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... . .

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It wont fuss me, to be honest - we play different types of game anyway. While I'll be playing shooters and racing games, you'll be playing Pro Evo and what not. :)

I have flip-flopped on the issue of barrel rolls several times since first playing Wipeout Pure.

I think my final conclusion is similar to Asayeah's-- that BRs are a great addition because they add a whole new level of strategy for time trials. How many BRs can I fit into this lap? In this section of the track, is it faster to hit the boost pad and stay low, or go high and barrel roll? Can I even steer the ship if I barrel roll at that tight corner?

It's the combination of barrel rolls, side-shifting and air-breaking that makes time trials interesting with Wipeout Pure and Pulse-- without these mechanics, lap times would reach a plateau quickly as folks identify the single best line through the course.

I might add that my love of barrel rolls in Pure increased greatly when I released that ANY ship (not just Triakus) can barrel roll repeatedly in lap time trials-- meaning that several other ships (Zone, Goteki, Icarus and others) become viable in top-level lap time trials racing. Of course, Triakus has the edge for whole-race time trialing in Wipeout Pure because it can barrel roll over and over without completely depleting the shields.

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Originally Posted by infoxicated

With barrel rolls we also have this game mechanic that is essential to perform in order to achieve a fast lap time. However, by your own admission, it sometimes doesn't work because of a frame rate dip. So you can be performing an otherwise perfect lap, only to miss a barrel roll for whatever reason - was it me? was it a frame rate dip?

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Fair enough-- but barrel rolls DO work flawlessly in Pure and Pulse if you are playing time trials.

This may be a "Mario Kart" mentality but I have always felt that racing games are primarily about time trials-- multiplayer is just a fun diversion. So I'm willing to stomach some inconsistency with performing BRs in multiplayer for the added dimensions they give to the time trial modes :) I'm sure other folks feel differently about that.

As an aside, I suspect that more casual gamers-- gamers that enjoy Wipeout as an occassional diversion rather than a serious hobby-- probably dig the barrel roll for its cool visuals and boost-ing feeling. It's eye candy that may help increase the franchise base outside of the hardcore racing crowd.

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It's eye candy that may help increase the franchise base outside of the hardcore racing crowd.

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Whom, i.e. the non-hardcore-crowd, the game hopefully does not intend to cater to in the long run...

^^
I am with you :)

But it is important that, somehow, Wipeout continues to find a reasonably-sized audience.

I don' have Pulse bacause waiting for JP version.
But I can say some things I hate about Pulse.

Countdown effect(display?) is shown only first-person view or zone mode.
I love that countdown effect (better than Pure's) so I wanna use it on third-person view too!:bomb

Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

[new]Shadow of crafts disappears in some places, such as around mag strip virtical wave section in moa therma.
(Pure has this too. In Pure, it disappears after the first jump point in Koltiwa)


Will some bugs which is found in EU version be fixed in US and other versions?
Will downloadable teams have alternative skins?
(Because Pure's downloadable crafts has no special skins...)

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Originally Posted by HISHO[JP]

Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

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I've made a comparision and to be honest, i can't spot a pixel difference.
but i'm currently on a very cheap lcd display and generally not that sensible
to differences in static pictures.
see for yourself:

bmp:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3...0079rr6.th.png

jpeg:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6...4002uu4.th.jpg

maybe they use like quality 95 or so.

/edit:
yes this is a "real" png.
converted from a full quality bmp.
it was not upconverted from the jpeg if you think.

Nah, it's that the game natively saves the image as png, not you convert the jpg to png. The converted image of course will be exactly the same.

please read what i wrote:
"it was not upconverted from the jpeg if you think."

the png i linked does NOT come directly from the game but is a bmp dump of the framebuffer or some other internal psp cache.
proof:
have a look at this image and look at the profile name

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Originally Posted by HISHO[JP]

I don' have Pulse bacause waiting for JP version.
But I can say some things I hate about Pulse.

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Uh oh! Things you hate about a game you don't own.

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Countdown effect(display?) is shown only first-person view or zone mode.
I love that countdown effect (better than Pure's) so I wanna use it on third-person view too!:bomb

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Is that right? I'm sure we set it based on how visible the 'banner' is from your start position. It might have been changed at the last minute.

Quote:

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Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

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As mentioned, there's no discernable difference, especially on a 480x272 image. I assume JPG is used because it's such a universal format - people without conversion software can view JPGs on just about any device.

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[new]Shadow of crafts disappears in some places, such as around mag strip virtical wave section in moa therma.
(Pure has this too. In Pure, it disappears after the first jump point in Koltiwa)

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Sigh. We never did solve that problem. However, import the game and you'll notice it's hardly a deal-breaker...

...Odd

When playing moa therma I notice the shadow slide down the magstrip, perpendicular to the ship as I move onto the vertical strip as it would in real life due to the sun now being 'from the side' of the ship. It never seemed broken to me...

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Originally Posted by Egg

Is that right? I'm sure we set it based on how visible the 'banner' is from your start position. It might have been changed at the last minute.

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thing is, in 3rd person view, you can ALLWAYS see the banner. i have never seen the counter except in zone mode because of this.
now i like the banner way better, but he might think otherwise.

but thats about the same thing as me wanting to have more controll over the graphical aspects of the game to further improve my framerate in phantom single races, eliminations and tournaments. i DO notice the framedrops but i guess it's quite irrelevant for the overall product.

I made a picture about something of this.
Attachment 191
(pictures are from some videos.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HISHO[JP]

I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.

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For example, in case of you want to edit by graphics editor,
re-compressing causes more deterioration.
So original file should be no compressed format or loss-less format
to protect from deterioration.

So sorry!:( I replaced the picture with less than 50k in size.
(...then, why is the uploadable jpg file limit set to 97k? I think it should be 50k to prevent ban...)

As a photographer, I sympathize with you about compressed images, however, we're lucky to be getting the photo mode, so you gotta take what you're dealt. There are external screen shot apps for PSP, that might take the image in a loss-less format. Uncompressed images are larger, and I would assume that most PSP games developers are creating features with the idea that PSP users have a 256meg card, instead of a 4 gig and two 1 gig cards.


I think i might have rambled there, I kinda let my mind wander while I wrote it, so...I dunno, whatever:blarg

okay some "bugs" or annoyances that i observed:

-) when playing zone, you don't see your past record for niether points nore zones
-) when surfing to wipeout-game.com and looking at the rankings with the psp, you cant flip through the pages ... what the hell?
-) why the 20 mp3 limit?
-) why no support for menu themes?
-) no grid sharing over the internet or even exporting the grid to some shareable format
-) no replay saving, although i can undestand that
-) has been said before: no elimination online

there probably is more ... i still gave the game over 90% in my review -_-

The one thing I hate the most is the waiting period after matches. I can handle it online, though it is a bit long, but what I can't handle, or understand, is why...why is it still a 40 second wait on AD-HOC matches. This is just ridiculous.

I use that time to rub it in my friends faces.
also some times together with the loading time and intro for each track - to go to the loo!
if in a 12 races tourny :D
what more .. eat/drink between races.
I dont think it's a problem. I think it's ok :+

Japanese players mind the waiting times such as loading times.
So waiting period after matches may be critical.

Load times are insignificant if you play off your card, but 40something secs after each multiplayer race...come on

The heffing cheaters online! DAMN YOU!!:bomb