Barrel Rolls in HD

[love9sick]

I make part of the people (a few it seems) who thinks br add fun to the game.
It's cool to have several ways of playing wipeout. Searching for nice trajectories without br, searching for nice trajectories with br. I like also sideshifting, it another move available to create his own way of racing. What i don't understand is that people are blaming br because it makes the TT and sl less interesting. So, they play for breaking records and not for fun. There was a big disagreement about "jay's mod" on psp. Some were saying it was cheating. Ok, and now with HD, no unfair "speed mod" or cfw. So, br are the new excuse ?

It would be great to just play the way I want to with out BRs but aside from wanting to put down great lap times you can't get past many later events with anything higher than a bronze medal unless you do use them, and that is a single player, so essentially the game FORCES you to use them. I don't hate them, I just think they are pointless as the game is challenging and interesting enough with out them. I always took wipeout as the more series futuristic racer, the mature one, the one that could almost be called a simulator of future racing...but BRs almost kill that with their cheesy top gun super swirl in the air look.

Anyways, wipeout games always were very competitive on the leader boards...that is nothing new. It adds more life to them..other wise what else are you gonna do after about 10 hours of gameplay? play for nothing? I play to beat the records once I finish the single player.

[captain howdy]

I voted yes. They're fine the way they are.

[JABBERJAW]

As the game is right now, I would leave them in personally, simply because of the speed of the game. Without them, and the game still moving AS IS, I would think would be too slow for pure pulse, or HD. However, if it were possible, I would like it replaced with a turbo button like Wo3, BUT still including all the weapons the game still currently has, including turbos. This way, YOU are the one to choose when and if you are going to risk your energy at any point on the track, rather than having to wait to perform a barrel roll on the slightest bump, then having to perform a street fighter move. I would hate this feature in an older version of the game, but in the 3 newer ones, it works, but with the other possibilities ranging from a turbo button, to just a faster speed class, I would rather have that. (IF that made any sense ). regardless of what alot of people think about the barrel roll, it is highly unlikely that this feature will be removed due to all of the high praise from the media for a future version of the game anyway, so it's either play this, or go back to XL. This is not a bash on HD for me though, I really like it, and wish I had more time to play. The physics for me are a huge improvement over pulse and pure with better pitch control than both, and getting some of the bouncy movement back that pulse did away with.

Sideshift for me, is a very serious change in the game however. I found myself going around a gradual turn without the need for airbraking at all, but found making the turn to be faster using the sideshift, which almost acts like a mini turbo when used correctly. I think it should be faster to make the turn with regular steering under this scenario. And the sideshift just makes the game somewhat choppy on the turns, kinda like fzero (yes I know there is no swearing here).

[Lance]

Re: FZero feel and handling: ^*%$#*%%***********************^

[JABBERJAW]

true, very true, just comparing the sideshift manouever, nothing else

[Ricanebleu]

I remember the first time I made, by chance, a BR in Pure. I was really thrilled. I didn’t know what it was or how I did it but somehow I felt that I’m flying . I never felt like that since w’o’’3 at the big jump in P-mar Project.
I like them just for the visual aspect and the way it makes me feel.
On the other hand, if I’m required to do them as a condition for winning, especially that in Pulse and Pure they appear randomly after the input of the code, I begin to dislike the idea of BR. I never coped with the feeling of futility in a game where U just can’t help it because the game would not let U.
I found even in HD some times when the BR did not activate in spite of the code input.
I do think however that if, by doing one or a double or a triple BR U would be forced to take a different racing line, away from the speed pads, and by not doing them U could follow a line equipped with enough speed pads that in the end would bring U to relative equal terms with someone who does BRs, things could get fun. Maybe IT could settle this dispute: do BR if U want but U don’t get speed pads, or race a perfect race line, like in w’o’’3, but u don’t get to have the opportunity to do BR. )
Also, about the side shifts, I wonder if I don’t overdo them, but then again if I race against an Assegai, with far more maneuverability then my Triakis I just have to if I want to stay ahead. The thing is that in the end I found my racing stile changed so much that now I do side shifts almost at every corner even if I don’t need it. It has become second nature and I’m not sure if this is really a good thing. I wonder if without side shift I would have had a chance with the poor handling of Triakis which I find to be poorer in Pulse then in Pure and poorer in HD then in Pulse. But maybe that’s just me.
As for how it is possible that a BR can give U a boost, I always imagined that in fact the pilot is the one that decides to transfer some of the energy from the shields to thrusters, and that the barrel roll is only an evasive maneuver to avoid any “incoming” while he concentrates on the transfer. I like this idea a lot better than the “Section 12.1 - "Flair" rewards”.

[kanar]

Hi guys,

Well, I just wanted to say, -always in the context of the fantasy thing, if I may- I felt a great disturbance in the force here yesterday. I really don't know what to think about that. Maybe/for sure I'm wrong because I'm just a French guy who doesn't understand well english, or it's because I'm just a rookie here, or because I care too much about this franchise & the talented wipers. To stay on topic, I hate BR accumulation, but I still love time trial or speed lap sessions, with good music in my ears. I love to share my racing experience with you guys here. Because if skilled wipers share their "knowledge" of the game, it's really more fun for everyone. Behind the so-called competition for "records", there's emulation, sharing experience, & make friendship with other wipers.
I must add I feel kind of scared to post that right now.

[Amon]

If you're against barrel rolls, offer your argument as to why, and convince me it doesn't boil down to ability one way or the other.

This could be a long story but i'll try. First im not saying, of course, than barrell rolls are bad for everyone who plays the game. I say that they are bad for me.

I started palying WO with the first, the pinnacle of the series was Wipeout XL / 2097 with negcom, I've always liked wipeout because, to me, it was a racing francise, an exercise of imagination that tried to give the players the equivalent of F1 in the future. They created sponsors, enterprises, they build cities around these tracks. To me it looks like a realistic effort, not a fantasy one.

So in that contest, to me, barrell rolls seem to come from another world. From Fzero or mario kart. Both are great games, but not of them feels like a simulation of the future like wipeout is to me. I can accept the speed pads. You pass on them, energy is transferred from them to the ship, boost. I can accept less weapons, in the form they are today. They are clearly a try from the organization to make the show more "thrill". Think about them as the future's Nascar yellow flag in the last lap if you want. All weapons are aboard of the ship, but become activated only when passing on the pads.

I would prefer a different concept in weapons. I would prefer weapons that slow down and don't destroy ships, speaking of realism. But, however, as they are now, i feel that barrell rolls are much more out of context that them.

These are my major gripes about barrell rolls in the game.

Speaking of the execution, it's not that i can't do them ( watch my stats for Chengou Project rapier class, the only track where i had the time to work a little on times if you dont believe me )

It's that for me, the process you make to do good laps in wipeout is not searching places in the tracks were i can take enough air to execute them. This sound "alien" to me when i think of wipeout.

To me going fast in this game is a question of finding the best line, understand where and how using aerobrakes, things like that you know ?

[eLhabib]

100% on the agree-o-meter

[kanar]

Amon,



I'm sure Flash would be glad to discuss these really good arguments with you, but he was banned.

[Amon]

Did not know, sorry about that .

Well it looks there are lots that find barrell rolls ok in wipeout, so maybe we will have others to discuss the argument no ?

[Asayyeah]

It's a pretty sensible subject like few others in the past and guys may react really in a harsh way if this continue too far beyond, so maybe we shall play a bit to relax our nerves.

[Amon]

So it's better not to thalk about it ... mhhh.

Ok

[eLhabib]

Ts, of course you can talk about it! The only thing that was upsetting was Flashback Jack's argumentation, not the issue itself. I would very much like to know what the top pilots, and the very casual players as well, think about BRs.

[Asayyeah]

Like i said before, i am not against BRs in general, it gives a new 'impulsion' to the Wipeout games and that is my point shared by myself ( lol sometimes i am against (contra) my own points but it's another story )


That could be cool to reduce number of BRs possible per lap ( the 'too much more ' is the ennemy of the good sometimes) in the future.

[Lance]

Kanar, the reason FJ was banned was because of his continual insulting of other players. He claimed that the only reason some people disliked barrel rolls is that they can't do them, that they don't have the skills, that he is better than they are. It is quite clear that there are many reasons to dislike the barrel rolls, and also quite clear that there are highly skilled pilots who don't like them. FJ's comments on this issue followed in the same pattern he has shown since he joined the forum, wherein he brags about his own skills and, either by direct statement or by implication, claims that other people are lesser beings than he is. That sort of thing is both annoying and disrespectful to the other forum members.

There are many kinds of excellence, but the possession of one kind out of many does not make a person a supreme example of humanity.

[mdhay]

Yeah, Lance, he was bragging and everything else, and I can sympathise with those He's belittled.

Hell, I am stuck up at times, and I know about it, but I can control myself and am trying to stop.

[xEik]

It's a pretty sensible subject like few others in the past and guys may react really in a harsh way if this continue too far beyond, so maybe we shall play a bit to relax our nerves.

I think you mean sensitive (delicate) instead of sensible (judicious). Direct French translation?

So it's better not to thalk about it ... mhhh.

Ok

You can talk about almost anything in WipeoutZone. There are a few exceptions like CFW but barrel rolls are not one. Having strong and controversial opinions is not a problem. Having a belittling attitude towards other wipers is a problem.
If you have the right attitude, you could even argue that Sony should abandon the WO franchise. Although I doubt you would find many people agreeing with you here.

[JABBERJAW]

Not sure about this, but it seems that the game gives you a better choice now to either battle, or try to get away from the pack (with risks) What do you guys think? girls?

Also, does weapon absorb give you more energy than it did in pulse? I thought it did, but am not sure, I know more energy comes off when performing one, and am wondering if they are tied together

[Amon]

Speaking of races, i find energy management well done. Rolls energy consumption, quantity of energy given back absorbing weapons are done right. As you say they oblige the player to choose his race strtegy. It's very well done and imo adds a lot to races.

Only thing to add ( and if i remember well somebody else already noted this ) is that races are too short, there is simply no time to make up for mistakes or simply being hit by rockets at race start, when the pack is close.

I think that races should be the double of laps they are now. Or we should have the chance to set the number of laps manually ( that would be better )