Barrel Rolls in HD

[JABBERJAW]

chill said:
"and please don't let any physics get all outlandish or anything... like a jet pushed from the side. Their couldn't be jets on the side... that would be too much side-weight to be easily damaged... as well as the flap flies you away from that side within the quick two flap movement, cause their's no way that little airbrake flap could create a movement as great as that... "

There must be something like a jet pushed from the side, and a little airbrake flap could create a movement as great as that.

had to, sorry

[BulletWraith]

yes JABBERJAW I have to agree, it's like saying a Harrier Jump Jet can't do a Vertical take off
many things are possible, if Anti Grave Engines are possible then I think side thrusters are possible

Churr
-Stevie

[Lance]

Small airbrakes can have a big effect. Why? > The higher the speed, the more effective airbrakes, rudders, and other control surfaces become; this is because the air pressure on the surfaces increases, but the racecraft's mass does not, so at high speeds even a small control surface can have a big effect with even a small deflection. Things change when speed goes high enough to reach the zone of the speed of sound, where large surfaces are required. This is why you see sonic and supersonic jet planes using designs where the entire stabiliser moves. The instability of the airflow in the sonic region reduces the effect of control surfaces because of airflow separations.

[jklasdf]

i think it would be sick if you had to twist the controller or jerk it or something to do a barrel roll.

that is, assuming ur not using the sixaxis for sole control of the ship. but still, i would love that

[Chill]

Hmmm... ok, but if that's the case, why should one extension of the Air Brake prepare it for a turn, and two extensions in a row make it move to the side??

I suppose side-jets or possible, but I don't know if that should effect a craft next to you within a race or not... it would probably push it over or something right? And then their would go a BR... and it would sound like a bit of wasted energy...

Your mean JABBERJAW!!!!

[Lance]

An airbrake applied on one side produces a drag along the longitudinal axis of the ship; it doesn't move the ship to the side but only applies a torquing force that produces yaw, which is a rotation around a vertical axis of the ship in the same vertical plane [geometrically speaking] as the airbrake but at the center of the ship. No application of the airbrake can produce a true sideshift in which the entire ship moves sideways equal amounts at both ends, in other words with no steering input, just shifting sideways. The game Killer Loop has a true sideshift like that.

Presumably, the double press of the airbrake button does not activate the airbrake at all, but controls another mechanism. The brake button is probably used just because the PSP doesn't have enough buttons to give each function its own button.

Lateral thrusters that apply side force in a balanced way could work on a Wipeout racecraft, and if the body of the thruster is pretty much fully within the body of the ship, with only the opening of the thrust jet exposed at the side, it's not going to catch on anything.

[Asayyeah]

It has, you just make a very quick transition from your main air-brake to the other one, then back again, turning with them...

Do that on the speedpads and you got my airbrakes technique of getting higher speed on XL.

To Rob : last wipeout convention for you I cannie believe this, let's talk about that in front of a pint of lager at Dam

[Lion]

Presumably, the double press of the airbrake button does not activate the airbrake at all, but controls another mechanism. The brake button is probably used just because the PSP doesn't have enough buttons to give each function its own button.

I made the same guess lance, which opens some interesting doors for movement control in WipEout HD.
if we can sideshift one way while airbraking on the opposite side, what will the ship's behaviour be? my guess is some seriously fun, and very controlled drift.

Perhaps those that toured SL can let us know if the controls could be mapped to allow that?

[Chill]

That would make more sense... I made that assumption about the side openings of the jet being on both sides rather than seperate jets as well, but then remembered that would still use up some of the jet power from behind, and still wouldn't slow down the ship as much as two air brakes working one in one with each other, so the sideshift does make sense now that I think of it... ok, my bad...

[eLhabib]

thought I move this into the right thread:

If BRs take off a whopping 15% of a ship's energy each time, time trialing will very much be BR-limited-- unless the shield re-charge is sky-high as in Wipeout Pulse.

In Wipeout Pure, the re-charge rate in free-play mode is slow enough that one can run out of shields by performing barrel rolls-- and time trials are definitely BR limited at least for ships that had low total shields. (The BR cost mechanic was based on an absolute rather than a relative proportion in Pure, so some ships are better suited for repeat BRs).

In wipEout HD Speed Lap and TT, the energy used by BRs is instantly replenished.

[Amon]

Maybe one day in the distant future there'll be a version that has more in common with the racing game I liked to begin with than with Crash Team Racing. But I'm not going to fill the gap barrel rolling and reverse quaking as if it's all I ever wanted WipEout to be.

I voted no and i tend to agree. For me too wipeout was much more racing than shooting.

I've always seen Wipeout as a "simulation" of the future. And while track and ship design and handling in the first games are for me a believable rapresentation of this future, barrell rolls and pilots killed many times on the track by weapons are not. Speaking of weapons i would prefer something that permits me to slow down the competition, and something that permits me to avoid other racers doing this to me.

It's not a matter of "digital violence" it's a matter of logic for me.

But we can always choose to race without barrell rolls and weapons if we want.

This leaves us only with time attack, online an zone modes.. but it's better than nothing.

[Lance]

~snip~
In wipEout HD Speed Lap and TT, the energy used by BRs is instantly replenished.

My initial reaction: Well, that sucks. [which is nOt a compliment ]

That would turn TT into a barrel-roll fest, and I just can't imagine myself wanting to spend that much time on such an artificial technique; it would take away the feeling of immersion in reality that I want. It's a trick that would be entertaining a few times, but after that becomes increasingly irritating. Considering that TT and hot lap require hours of play to achieve the best possible record, I just wouldn't want to do it, even though TT records have been my chief pleasure in WipEout.

[Sausehuhn]

You're right Lance.
After people started to analyse the tracks for potential BR-sections, Time Trial became uninteresting for me. I want to race.
Okay, if there are BRs in the game and I have to do 1-2 per lap, that's okay maybe. But if I only have to think about where to execute BRs and I'm more focussed on that than on the racing, then I think something's wrong with the game.

[infoxicated]

In wipEout HD Speed Lap and TT, the energy used by BRs is instantly replenished.

Really?

While it doesn't entirely shock me to see my once favourite gaming series hit a new low, it still sucks.

[leungbok]

When i first played wipeout (the original), years ago, i loved the fact i drove a ship flying on tracks. I loved too the use of weapons, huge fun in double split screens with two psx, two tv's, a link cable and talented pilots to fight (my cousins). I loved all this stuff because it was science-fiction, even if the ship's behavior seemed logical. Now, i think that barrel-rolls are very well integrated in this universe, they are a part of the wipeout racing now ! wipeout games are made for fun, that's all !! There's a huge park of car simulation games on every consol with very realistic features. I think too that developpers in SL are trying to give us new features destined to enhance the fun on their games, trying to both, satisfy the hardcore fans and to attract new players, also in the disliked fusion (not by me). As a creator myself (i'm a professional penciler),i respect their décisions in the game's creation. Their choices (good or bad to us) are law !!

[Sausehuhn]

As long as we are willing to buy the product, yes.

[Frances_Penfold]

thought I move this into the right thread:

In wipEout HD Speed Lap and TT, the energy used by BRs is instantly replenished.

Thanks for getting this to the right place

So basically, this will be exactly like Pulse, yes? Hmmm.

I am a minority voice at WOZ in that I like barrel rolls, because they add an extra layer of strategy to time trials. Still, barrel rolls could have been allowed in WOHD with the 15% energy reduction and that would have arguably made time trials even MORE strategic.

Still, I would probably rather have the WOHD system than the Pure system, where there was a set amount of energy per barrel roll, because that essentially forced competitive players to use a ship with high shields to play whole race time trials, so that they can repeatedly barrel roll.

[Mad-Ice]

It is just too bad that BR's are in HD but it is even worse that they work like Pulse in TT, immediate replenishment! Even in Pure we had to think about where to BR or not to get the fastest time and it was really exciting to do that last BR with your last energy trying to get to the end of your fastest TT without exploding in the last corner.

[Sausehuhn]

The really bad thing about BRs is that they give the leading players in a race even more chances to win, and the bad even less.
Who's once in front of the battlefield can restore his energy without big problem,s thus make a lot of BRs.
And those who are already fired from all sides try to keep that bit of enery that's left, have no real chance to execute BRs at all, making the distance between the leading player and the last even bigger.

[leungbok]

Hence the interest to be part of the first