SL redundancies and the future [if any] of HD

[Koleax]

You know as well as I do, there's nothing wrong with the game.
It's just that it takes practice, and lots of it, to get good at it.
It would seem the populations of some countries are less likely to put the effort in than others.

I don't agree with this. If you like a game, you generally play a lot of it and thus become well-practiced, not the other way around.

But there is something to be said about a level of difficulty that makes one feel "welcomed." I mean, there's been an amount of elitism in Wipeout design going back to the beginning. Somewhere along the line, beginning with Wip3out, the difficulty change caused the coolness factor to move away from the chill welcoming sort to the select elite sort. (I could say something about various European countries and elitism here but will instead only remind you that I could have).

Then again I'm not sure why that's the reason more people don't play it, at least here in America. When people ask me what games I play and I say Wipeout, even the most casual of gamers have heard of it, but follow it up by saying that I'm the only one they know who plays it.

Perhaps it takes an unusually focused sort of gamer. There's no narrative, even in the most abstract "career mode" of the sort you'd find in Forza. There are no characters to build, inventory to manage, or equipment to juggle, so that completely leaves out any gamer with an RPG inclination. There's no exploration. At all. Of anything. No sense of discovery. (No, new barrel rolls don't count). There's no sandbox element, which completely leaves out anyone who just wants to "play around." At the same time, it doesn't really go anywhere. I could see that particular combination not attracting many players.

At least in 2097, you eventually unlocked Piranha, the coolest-looking peaceful maxed-out badass ever. There's nothing like that summum bonum in any other Wipeout. Fusion makes a good attempt with the ultimate weapons. The richness and variety of weapons in Fusion is really under-appreciated. Every time I see a Piranha with weapons, though, I feel like something died inside.

In any case you have to be a bit laser-focused to play Wipeout. The most important thing about the game, though, and why I love it, is the feeling that the world within Wipeout is opened up to technology, made better, cleaner, more elegant, more stable, richer, and even more natural. The feeling that you could spread your arms and fly through this wonderful landscape as fast as you can and destroy anyone who got in your way. That's what I think the spirit of Wipeout really is and will keep the series alive.

[mic-dk]

Koleax, you do realise that blackwiggle is not a Euroweenie? Please point that flamer at the other sea...

I don't agree with the whole elitist sentiment. Difficult to master and narrow-focused, yes, but not elitist. WO has one of the most welcoming and generally friendly communities in gaming. Both on the interwebz and on-line. A friendly 'Good game' message at the end of session is not uncommon. Compare that to your FPS of choice.

I thank the gods that I don't have to choose between 26 suspension setups before each race and is a single player, single race not as pick-up-and-play as it gets? Choose track, choose ship, 3-2-1-GO.

Anyways, I don't know why WO is not the worlds most popular game, but 'elitist' is IMO not one of the reasons.

[Koleax]

Oh yeah, well. You know, he's still in the domain of the House of Windsor. I sort of think of the Queen's subjects as a packaged deal.

[blackwiggle]

Maybe Wipeout 3D will bring a larger audience.
Well at least bring Wipeout HD to peoples attention, as it would seem that is what the basic problem is from the comments made.
A lot of people just don't know about it, which I think is because of a generation of single child families, the kid doesn't/hasn't had an older sibling that has played wipeout and can turn them on to it, add the fact that wipeout didn't have a home console game between FUSION & HD, that leaves a whole generation that unless they were an early adopter of a PSP and got PURE, would be unlikely to have even heard of wipeout.
Add to the fact that some households bought a different console for gaming and wipeout is Playstation exclusive, well there's another slice of the possible market gone.
It might be the last chance Sony get to promote it, sorry, what am I talking about, I mean it would be a great time for Sony to eventually pull it's finger out and promote it, since it has done diddle squat previously.

I somehow doubt they will though, even at the upcoming E3 WOHD3D will get scant coverage because it was shown 2 years ago, other 3D games will steal the thunder, bloody Motorstorm 3D most likely.

[MiguelX69]

I am not aware of the recent events but I know that Wipeout is not a disposable title.
Wipeout is a title that, although it may not have as many fans as the GT series, it has been following the Playstation over the years. Wipeout series is one of my all-time favorites and I hope that in a near future more titles of the franchise are released.

[drell]

No proof of that ! All depends what sony was expecting for wipeout sales !

No proof other than Pulse DLC not released in USA because it was not an economically viable decision to release them (low sales expected) and Studio Liverpool closing down because it was no longer economically viable (Remember they were working on new projects which all got canceled, aka they were losing money and not profitable.)
Sorry, I just don't see how a new WipEout can happen. It will have to be a miracle for it to happen and a second miracle for it to be good, considering the Studio Liverpool folks cannot work on it anymore.
Maybe if this 3D thing catches on, WipEout will be more exposed. Hopefully the 3D in it is done well enough that it will carry the 3D banner for a long while and expose it to a lot of people who will buy it to try it out. Maybe then Sony will think about it again and design a 3D WipEout from the ground up (Instead of a port to 3D like it is.) but then that is the future and if I could predict I would be rich.

[MiguelX69]

Well said...

The idea of the Wipeout series being over just kills me. HD is my favorite game by far from every possible point, but I feel that it could have been "bigger"... Oh well, let's pray for those miracles...

(PS: Sorry if I have some language mistakes, English is not my native language).

[blackwiggle]

I don't think we have seen the last Wipeout.
The gaming industry is just like the film industry in one important way, and that is they are both running out of ideas for totally new stuff.
We end up with countless remakes & sequels of movies, likewise in games.
So it's only a matter of time before partially completed wipeout projects end up getting dusted off and put into production again.

How long away that is and who will make it and for which console it will be for?

If the combined history of Wipeout, Sony and Playstation are anything to go by it would probably be a totally new Wipeout in 2 years, in 3D and for launch of the PS4 and hopefully on Disc.[and a new NegCon as well that can use the "MOVE" interface for good measure ]

I just hope whoever inherits the responsibility of making Wipeout, now the old hands aren't there, comes and visits this forum and sees what Wipeout tragic's love about the game.
Make it for the people who love it and it will succeed, change it and it isn't Wipeout anymore, it's something else, anybody can do something else, very few can make a proper Wipeout.

[amplificated]

I like that last line, wiggle

[KIGO1987]

There was a bit of a gap from Fusion to Pure, and a big change in the game dynamics. Maybe it'll be the same story again.

[Rapier Racer]

Was Wipeout not one the the games mentioned in one of the statements made during the SL close down?

Put money on there being another game called Wipeout, don't put money on it actually being Wipeout.

[UB3R~JKP]

I don't think we have seen the last Wipeout.
The gaming industry is just like the film industry in one important way, and that is they are both running out of ideas for totally new stuff.
We end up with countless remakes & sequels of movies, likewise in games.
So it's only a matter of time before partially completed wipeout projects end up getting dusted off and put into production again.

How long away that is and who will make it and for which console it will be for?

If the combined history of Wipeout, Sony and Playstation are anything to go by it would probably be a totally new Wipeout in 2 years, in 3D and for launch of the PS4 and hopefully on Disc.[and a new NegCon as well that can use the "MOVE" interface for good measure ]

I just hope whoever inherits the responsibility of making Wipeout, now the old hands aren't there, comes and visits this forum and sees what Wipeout tragic's love about the game.
Make it for the people who love it and it will succeed, change it and it isn't Wipeout anymore, it's something else, anybody can do something else, very few can make a proper Wipeout.

I Agree with everything, except that part about the PS4.
The PS3 still hast at LEAST 5 years left in it( opinion)
The upgrade to 3D on the PS3 is being made out to be a big deal I don't think they would ditch it so fast...

[Medusa]

Put money on there being another game called Wipeout, don't put money on it actually being Wipeout.

Naturally. In just one installment it went from "futuristic racer" to "combat racer", it could easily go from "combat racer" to "RPG FPS Dance Dance Revolution pad-compatible downloadable-only racer".
Imagine how much worse it can get, then when it finally arrives, you'll say "Thank God! I thought they were gonna have Michael Buble do the soundtrack!"
(or whatever you thought would ruin it)

[UB3R~JKP]

I like that DDR notion....

[Koleax]

Not to sound cynical (merely sobering), but Wipeout has been dead for 10 years now. Its spirit has lived on in games called "Wipeout" and they are fun in their own right. I own and enjoy several, putting at least a couple hundred hours into them total. Mechanically, though, the last Wipeout game was SE. The floaty, air-lifting gameplay that made the game so unique and genre-defining has been gone since the 20th century.

The guys that left SL? Well, mechanically they turned Wipeout into an ordinary vehicle racing game with air-brakes and barrel rolls. The games are still very enjoyable. Aesthetically and musically they are spiritual kin to Wipeout. But, they don't fly like Wipeout and nothing has for over a decade.

[MiguelX69]

@Koleax

Unfortunatly, most games in this genaration are turning to much "Eye-Candy" rather than fun.

That's why many people still play PS1 games for hours and hours. For example, a game like Sheep Dog n' Wolf... It wouldn't be possible on the PS3.

[ACE-FLO]

...it could easily go from "combat racer" to "RPG FPS Dance Dance Revolution pad-compatible downloadable-only racer"... you'll say "Thank God! I thought they were gonna have Michael Buble do the soundtrack!"
(or whatever you thought would ruin it)

I laughed my head off at your post... Let's hope they don't do "that" to wipEout...

Personally, I think the next WipEout game will be on PS4 now, whenever they plan to release the beast is beyond me - but hey for now, I'm ok with HD Fury. How peeps can expect a new wipEout when the current incarnation has so much longevity in its' format is beyond my understanding. Records are still being set and broken. Peeps are still improving after 2 years of having this title, there's obviously room for improvement for pilots who play this game - I'm one. NOt to mention the disciplines we all cried out for but never race on - such as ELIMINATOR mode... you all know what I'm saying, we just love to bitch is all being the hard to please types that we are

[Koleax]

@MiguelX69, such a shame, because my eyes do like candy.

[Colin Berry]

Marketing has nothing to do with it. Americans aren't known for having a well-developed sense of taste and, when it comes to racing, it's even worse. What do we like? Stock cars and ovals.

Seriously.

Marketing had a lot to do with it, Wipeout HDs entire european marketing budget was less than some uk football players weekly salary (I think we got one banner advert on eurogamer and that was about it) At the time of Wipeout HD, Sony PSN games had virtually zero marketing spend. That said, it was/is too hard and niche to ever be mass market success. Some die hards will claim its easy, but I'd wager HD remains one of the hardest current gen racing games to master.


Its cool Tony and Gaz got jobs quite quickly (I bumped into Gaz a few weeks back getting lunch ) in fact they are in a building only a few hundred yards away from myself, linky, karl, and several other ex wipeout folk.


Now and again I wish we'd have been given another crack at another HD expansion pack, some old track remakes, some screwing about with the handling, some more online options, a proper delve into the 3D aspect (I'd have rather done more HD, than a fresh Wipeout, because a fresh wipeout would mean a reinvention and that could be a hiding to nothing). But I think overall we (that wipeout team) stopped on a high, HD/Fury remains one of the best Ps3 games, interms of play, looks, and value for money, there are a few of the guys still about at studio liverpool, so you never know what the future brings, but I think that recent chaptor ran its course well:
Pure brought Wipeout back and did some new things for the psp
Pulse built on Pure, added online handheld play, ship skin editor, and had some cool tracks (maybe I dicked around with the handling too much, I should have had a broader feel to it I like the handling in pulse but should have found a way to retain pures handling in some way despite the mag strips etc blahaah)
HD took the best bits (ok our favourite bits) from the PSP versions and delivered it in 1080p 60fps, at an ace price with a lot of game for people, a tight campaign experience, tonnes of options, and then Fury built on that added some new modes, took an edgier art direction with the ships etc and honed aspects of the game further. 4 games each one building on the last, irrespective of sales the standard across all 4 was consistently high I dont think we dropped the ball massively on any of them.

People will have their favourites, for some it will be the older ones, 2097 or WO3, for some its Pure or the original or Fury, and whilst some dont like feature x or y of the recent games, I think overall we did the name justice, I actually think HD is the most fun and polished version of all the wipeouts (yeah I am bias, bite me ) but even if you prefer WO3 or 2097 or even fusion, no one can deny the team that went from pure through to fury all worked with care and attention to detail and a passion and commitment to wipeout. Fury got made because the team FKIN loved wipeout and wanted to do more it was driven by the team not by marketing or management, Fury was made because of the desire and passion of the team, indeed at times it was made despite management at some levels, we fought hard to make Fury and fill it with the content we wanted to make, not compromised or diluted to fit a certain price point. Not many games get made in that kind of environment and situation, there is always a love and care but often you are dictated to by outside influences, but Fury was a labour of love for the team and a culmination of the second 'era' if you like in Wipeouts history.

In time sony might ask another team to start a new era, be interesting to see what they do if that happens.

/end waffle

[ProblemSolver]

"... Wipeout HDs entire european marketing budget was less than some uk
football players weekly salary ..."

(no comment xD)

Colin, your post reads something like this; we wanted to make an addon for HD
and got through with it. After the release of Fury we wanted to make another
one which wasn't accepted this time around. And as a result we felt cut short
while flying high.

I do agree that going ahead with HD (addon-wise) would be a best fit. Each
addon could add a certain flavor such that, in the end, after multiple addons,
a possible new Wipeout could be created based on some new ideas and the
knowledge gathered so far.

If I think about that some of the major 1st party IPs are now in its second
or even third (PS3-) iteration, for example KZ3 and UC3, respectively; making
their games even better than ever before; it's rather disappointing to see
that you guys won't be able to do the same with WipEout HD. Damn.

Don't know if you can give a non-trivial answer to the following question.
Well, you said; "But I think overall we (that wipeout team) stopped on a
high,...". Why?

Btw; WipEout HD Fury pwns! No need to justify.