Consumer 3D TV system finally sorted

[blackwiggle]

I've just been trawling through the reports from CES 2010 about the various new technologies heading our way later in the year.

It seems there has finally been a 3D system that all the leading TV manufactures have agreed to use [Thanks Toshiba for sorting what could of been a useless format war]

Look like we will be getting the 3D system that uses the LCD glasses that flicker on and off.

Only SONY & Panasonic will be supplying ONE pair of glasses with there top of the line 3D sets,otherwise you will have to buy them separately.
[Which makes me think that nobody has solved the problem of viewing the TV from other than straight in front of the set without compromising the 3D effect,as only one person can occupy that viewing position,wait and see,or not see as the case may be].
No official prices have been released yet for either the TV's or the needed glasses,only a US release date of "Spring".
Some well educated guesstimated US prices from the tech savvy mavens at the AVS forum are at the link below,plus a general breakdown discussion on the relative merits and perceived short comings of the Sony flagship.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1214118

Of course this 3D software/discs is going to be different,so a new form of Blue Ray player will be needed to play it back.

That is unless you have a PS3!!!
YES FOLKS,Sony have announced that the PS3 will be able to playback 3D Blue Ray discs with a firmware update..

A list of 3D Blue Ray playback need to knows is at this link.
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-31045_1-10430918-269.html

I could fill you in with a heap of other info but this thread is long enough as it is.

[brainbeat]

well ill be skipping 1080p hdtv and saving up for a 3d instead

[blackwiggle]

Exactly ,same here.

I might wait until the new 3D capable projectors hit the market to replace the one I have now,not a fan of a huge rectangle of glassware taking up lounge room space ,I'll wait and see how good this technology is firsthand before I jump in,also when there are at least a good few 3D titles to playback.
And after the initial prices drop of course.

At least they have recognized the lag problem with HDMI switching due to the HDCP,the Sony's will be fitted with the new InstraPort HDMI which will reduce switching time to 1 sec.

I just came across this.

Sony will release FIFA 2010 World Cup on 3D Blu-ray Sony has announced it will be producing the 2010 FIFA World Cup in 3D for Blu-ray, after it covers the event using Sony 3D cameras.

The company will then release the "Official 3D Film" of the event on Blu-ray, so far without a timetable or price.

Finalized 3D Blu-ray specifications should be released by the Blu-ray Disc Association before the start of the new year.

The World Cup starts in June in South Africa and is expected to be watched by hundreds of millions.

“The transition to 3D is underway, and we at Sony intend to be leaders in every aspect. Our sponsorship of the FIFA World Cup allows us to leverage our cutting-edge 3D technology and premier products with dazzling content to produce a unique and totally compelling viewing experience,” adds Sony chairman/CEO Howard Stringer. “3D viewers around the world will feel as though they are inside the stadiums in South Africa, watching the games in person.”

[AG-wolf]

F*ck yeah, Virtual Boy!!

[mic-dk]

Bah, humbug!

While I look forward to real 3D capable projectors to light up my holodeck, I just don't see it happen in the coming years for the private consumer.

The viewing angle is critical - it's not that big of a deal in a movie theater, but it is in 99% of livingrooms. I can't imagine it'll succeede if only one or two people in the sofa is able to make out what is happening on screen.

Also, 3D in HD needs quite a lot of bandwith, and at least here in Denmark, the service providers do everything they can to use as little as possible. Horrible picture quality be damned!

Sure, my next TV/receiver/gismo may be able to show 3D, but I will still buy it for it's 2D picturequality. I just hope my 50" Kuro lasts forever.

I will not belive the hype.

[Aeroracer]

i hope the 3d in these 3d tellys is better than those lame red/green paper 3d glasses...i watched jorney to center of earth on blu-ray in 3d with thses crappy glasses and it looked rubish.

has anyone seen this lcd style 3d if so how good is it compared to old 3d.

[blackwiggle]

Well Both Toshiba & Samsung have bought out 3D capable sets that can turn standard DVD/Blueray into 3D on the fly.
It's pretty impressive from more than one report.

LG if the first to bring out a 3D capable projector,they are aiming at the high end videophile.

The biggest fly in the ointment with all these 3D capable set's atm is the need for the new 1.4 HDMI cables,which have a smaller plug very similar to a mini USB plug.

You can see all these individual video reports of all these various manufacturers at the AVForums TV.
Only the latest 4 videos are shown on the main page.
But just look at the bottom of the page where it says "older videos of this type" and choose the report you want to view from the last few days,it's the best coverage of the CES anywhere.

http://www.avforums.com/tv/

[mic-dk]

Ah yes... HDMI 1.4... I'm glad I've buried a HDMI 1.3 in my wall then

If HDMI 1.4 is a requisite for 3D how is the PS3 supposed to do it? In my case it would also mean replacing my receiver since I pass the HDMI signal through there on the way to the TV to pull the audio out.

Still, I'll maintain that 3D will only be a gimmick for a few people in a good number of years to come. I see an application in theaters and, maybe, games, but not in the T room at home.

(oh, and the HDMI cable in my wall is encased in a rubber tube so I can pull a new if I wanted. I'm not _that_ stupid )

Edit: Oh, now I bothered with some of your links:

A Sony representative emphatically told us that we'll get "full 1080p resolution to each eye", but we're under the impression that full 3D 1080p resolution requires HDMI 1.4--and the PS3 only has HDMI 1.3.

[abukii]

Im sure between an update and an adaptor, theyll be able to pull it off.

[blackwiggle]

I don't really believe the PS3 will be able to 1080p 3D,not with the HDMI socket it has, a over zealous Sony PR person more likely.
I also don't think a adapter would work either.
I think PS3 owners would be lucky if it did 720 3D,more likely 576.
There's bound to be a compromise of some sort,I'm guessing that to get 3D out of the PS3 you will have to use the HDMI for video output only, and use the optical out for audio.

But then again Blueray is Sony's baby,and the 3D aspect of Blueray has been on the drawing board since it's inception.
One of the reasons it won the format war with HDDVD.
If 3D playback as a future upgrade on the PS3 was on the drawing board since it's inception?,Guess we will find out soon enough.

Yeah,3D does seem gimmicky,there's a lot of hurdles in it's way for it gain acceptance from the general consumer anyway.
I'm well aware of those,always have been,I made a few posts about this here over a year ago.
There was 3 competing system then.

The need to wear glasses to view it [for most 3D systems] and the possibility of viewer nausea or eye strain causing headaches,plus the light loss that occurs due to the blackening of said shutter glasses.

The limited amount of people that can watch it at the same time and the limited seating arrangement to view 3D properly.

The need for a new 3D TV or PJ and the price involved.

The HDMI 1.4 miss match with current equipment [blame HDMI for that,they could have build HDMI to this spec from the beginning,but chose not to]
At least ALL manufacturers have to implement HDMI 1.4 the same way now,so equipment mismatches due to companies implementing HDMI differently "should" be a thing of the past.

And lastly,the lack of 3D media to watch.

I Personally think having to wear glasses to view 3D will be the biggest turn off for your average consumer.

[Dan Locke]

Viewing angle is only a problem with lenticular screens. They work by using a lenticular sheet to make certain areas of the screen viewable only at certain angles - each eye is at a different angle relative to the screen, and thus sees a different image, producing a 3D effect. Of course, the main drawback to this approach is a restricted viewing angle, as the 3D effect only works within very narrow windows.

By contrast, if these sets come with polarized glasses - which they do - they use the old polarized light trick, in which each eye's view is polarized at a different angle, which is blocked from the other eye's field of vision by the lenses' polarization. Such screens can be viewed effectively at any angle.

i hope the 3d in these 3d tellys is better than those lame red/green paper 3d glasses..~snip~

The red/green (red/blue where I come from) glasses are required to turn 2D, single-image content into a 3D image. The whole point of developing new TV designs is to eliminate that. The new system uses overlapping polarized images, like in a movie theater.

~snip~...plus the light loss that occurs due to the blackening of said shutter glasses.

Shutter glasses are not the same as polarized glasses. There is no light loss that results from the latter technique, which is the one that the new sets use.

And lastly,the lack of 3D media to watch.

A firmware update is the only thing necessary to turn the entire PS3 library into a 3D medium.

[blackwiggle]

I think there will be a perceived loss of overall screen brightness while a TV is in 3D mode, in comparison to normal,non 3D viewing, due the the LCD shutter glasses switching on and off from clear to dark 60 tps.

It would almost be the same as wearing glasses with photochromatic lenses and walking inside after being in bright sunlight, but obviously at a much faster rate.

As for turning the entire PS3 library into 3D medium.
I have yet to read anything from Sony regarding the specifics of it's upcoming PS3 3D update,only that it will be able to play back 3D Blueray discs.
Unless they are going to do with a PS3 firmware update what Toshiba & Samsung are doing with some of their sets,3D processing on the fly to turn 2D media into 3D.
I have seen no mention of this anywhere,let alone a confirmation.

Any links

[Dan Locke]

I think there will be a perceived loss of overall screen brightness while a TV is in 3D mode, in comparison to normal,non 3D viewing, due the the LCD shutter glasses switching on and off from clear to dark 60 tps.

THEY DON'T DO THAT. They're polarized.

LCD shutter glasses are completely different - actually, they're more like really clunky goggles. Here's a picture of one:



And there's no light loss as a result of using them - one eye always sees a fully-lit frame. Darkness would only result from both lenses being switched on and off at the same time, but that would kill the 3D effect anyway.

As for turning the entire PS3 library into 3D medium.
I have yet to read anything from Sony regarding the specifics of it's upcoming PS3 3D update,only that it will be able to play back 3D Blueray discs.

You know, now that I think about it, I'm not sure that it's really all that feasible. I was thinking that the PS3 would be able to simply render 3D graphics from one view for a single frame, then from a different view for the consecutive frame, etc, but the games themselves wouldn't allow for that constant "jiggling" of the camera.

Still, it's a feature that could easily be implemented further down the road.

@ Lance

Please stop screwing around with my posts.

[Lance]

Please stop making us read so much stuff twice.

-------

Re: the brightness issue of 3D 'shutter' glasses: Since the brain combines images from both eyes to create the final perceived single view, is it not possible that timed alternating shutoffs of the views from each eye in turn would result in each eye contributing to total brightness only half the time, thus reducing the brightness of the combined images by 50 percent?

[Dan Locke]

No, it is not. A 100%-brightness picture is routed to the brain through one eye, then through the other.

Besides, it isn't as if each eye "contributes" 50% to the "total" brightness anyway. Close one eye while reading this post and let me know how much darker your monitor appears.

[Lance]

A nice practical test. The only difference is the width of the total field of view due to only partial overlap of the FOVs of the individual eyes.

[Dan Locke]

That's only a problem if you're really, really close to the screen - which would ruin the 3D effect itself.

[Lance]

I usually sit from two to two and a half feet from a 19" HD screen. Very nearsighted, no corrective lenses.

[Aeroracer]

this 3d tv sounds good but i bet it will cost a fortune..

[Dan Locke]

Indeed. It'll need two polarizers (and circular ones, at that), not to mention double the refresh rate of current sets.

Of course, with enough early adopters, the technology might get its big break and become much, much cheaper over time.