Barrel Rolls in HD

[LordVonPS3]

If they release an expansion with 2097 ships that don't do barrel rolls, then, when you play online, people will still be doing barrel rolls all around you if they're using the HD ships that can do barrel rolls. So, on the basis of your earlier post, wouldn't you still be where you were before?

No. If the 2097 craft are indeed faster as I had previously explained - then it won't matter if people are doing barrel rolls... Those craft will be slower! Ergo, gamers will look to use the newer & faster craft which will bring about a new balance to the online in the game.

[Aeroracer]

The crux of my argument is that barrel rolls have nothing to do with futuristic racing or any sort of racing in general. Hovercraft, cars, anti-gravity vehicles, etc, whatever you like - don't do barrel rolls. Even if they could or did - they wouldn't gain any extra speed for doing them. In fact, they'd lose speed.

Hahaha...you do know its not real...don't you.
wipeout is a game and they havn't invented anti gravity racing yet.

The series didn't need a track related speed boost gimmick - cleverly placed speed pads would offer the same effect without the Street Fighter control nonsense.

Hahaha, Street fighter nonsense, street fighter is more popular than wipeout.
Wipeout did need a gimmick and its in the game now and people play it and i can always get a game online cos it's a popular game.

basically my advice to you is ...

1 turn off BR's via options
2 Delete WOHD from ps3 and play wipeout2097
3 Buy SL and make your own game
4 Invent anti grav racing

I will agree that 2097 had some nice tracks (gare europa)and the ships looked nice.

[SaturnReturn]

OK, but that's quite a big prediction to make. They couldn't make the newer ships outright faster and still integrate them, in my opinion. It would also raise all sorts of issues. As you say, it would bring about a new balance, or, to put it another way, change the current game. In addition, as an expansion, a player would still have to buy HD and possibly Fury too. So I still think that, if you really want a game that is different and more like the originals, then a whole new game would be better. I suspect that a WipEout 2097 HD that could be played as a stand-alone game would be much better than trying to integrate something with a whole different focus and balance into the same game.

[leungbok]

A new game ok, but what about the possibility of beating the BR users online with ships without ability of BR-ing but faster ?

[ACE-FLO]

BR's ROCK!!!!

I cant imagine a future wipeout without BR's now...

Yeah yeah yeah yeah - it took a lil getting used to, but once mastered - its what its all about!

IMO - if you dont like the BR's, think they are an annoyance, then just play 2097 - don't complain! You'll anger us BR Junkies and that can cause problems for you online lol...


(ok peeps - I was kidding)

[Aeroracer]

Couldn't say it better.
wish i could get them out a bit quicker though on some tracks.

i wish you also didnt lose energy for a bodged BR' that didnt come out.

[leungbok]

Here a video of TT with one or two br per laps max

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvWyYwMCr9Y

[lunar]

Sweet stuff. I Especially love the Talons with all those PLs.

See, if there were only that many BRs in a race then everyone could be happy (well, almost everyone) Plenty of scope for stunts, but Pure enough for the purists, in most cases anyway Surely SL can find a way to make it so without needing so many mag-strips. Pure was almost there.

There can always be a middle way, a balance, 8 BRs a lap is not so, but races like that in your video are great to me. Well, all are skillful however many BRs, but that`s not the point, the point is the way the game plays, feels and looks.

don't complain!

Hey - you`ve got your BRs we traditionalists are entitled to a thread to complain about them if we have to have them

[DISRUPTOR]

A potential issue with barrel rolls is not knowing all the barrel roll locations. In an online race it would be possible for a skilled player to lose to lesser skilled player who was aware of all the locations.
Luckily for some this information is available.

[leungbok]

Nah, skilled players are also skilled to perform brs !

[lunar]

I agree with Leungbok. Maybe what you say could be true of shortcuts, but then these also usually require a lot of skill to pull off and there are no easy ones. Some of them require monster nuts to attempt in an online race

Also the concept of a "Barrel Roll Location" is not very strong - basically you can barrel roll anywhere that you can get your ass off the ground. If you think maybe you can do a BR in a place then you probably can. Online BRs are limited by energy also, so even if there are some BR locations you don`t know you can easily do more than enough to use all your energy and blow yourself up on most tracks, so I don`t think it`s an issue online. I certainly never had any trouble finding enough BRs to blow myself up.

Also, as Leungbok says, doing the BRs is the skill in the first place.

[Frances_Penfold]

Yeah, I'm not worried that BRs diminish the skill requirement of Wipeout-- pilots that are good at airbrakes and side-shifting and creating good lines also tend to be good at identifying and executing BR opportunities

See, if there were only that many BRs in a race then everyone could be happy (well, almost everyone) Plenty of scope for stunts, but Pure enough for the purists, in most cases anyway. Surely SL can find a way to make it so without needing so many mag-strips. Pure was almost there.

Makes sense to me

Most tracks in Pure/Pulse have a pretty reasonable BR involvement-- then there's Classic Pack 2 with Vohl Square, Altima VII, and Porta Kora. **** on a stick. There's so many BRs in those tracks, it's a pain in the ass in Time Trial and Free Race modes ship energy doesn't recover nearly fast enough to compensate for the BRs needed per lap. Generally I can only race two or so laps before having to set the PSP aside and wait for the ship energy to recover

It seems that the Classic II trakcs are really not suited for the BR mechanic whereas other tracks in Pure (including those in Classic Pack 1) are pretty reasonable.

[lunar]

I agree about Pure Speed Laps, however the energy management in Pure`s TTs made it very interesting and tactical deciding which BRs to do because you couldn`t do them all. It was especially true on the classic 2 tracks - and dangerous when finishing the race with 0 pixels of energy left. Also there was an inherent benefit to Perfect Laps - more energy for BRs and faster times. It was good design and I think SL got it right first time. I remember having so many little wall hits on the last right of Odessa Keys and a great run ending in flames with the finish in sight.

Off-topic, I noticed on Pulse that if you do a time trial in a custom grid the energy behaves like in Pure and doesn`t replenish in the TT. Weird.

Also, Leungbok, you know you missed a possible BR every lap on your Amphi Run in the video? I guess you do know it

[leungbok]

And also on talon

[Aeroracer]

i have yet to be able to compete in a proper online race and pull off all the BR's i wanted to do down to energ constraints.


If you are race leader or lagging well behind it is easier as you can get more weapons and absorb..if you are in the race pack ,its more difficult.

[Frances_Penfold]

I agree about Pure Speed Laps, however the energy management in Pure`s TTs made it very interesting and tactical deciding which BRs to do because you couldn`t do them all. It was especially true on the classic 2 tracks - and dangerous when finishing the race with 0 pixels of energy left. Also there was an inherent benefit to Perfect Laps - more energy for BRs and faster times. It was good design and I think SL got it right first time. I remember having so many little wall hits on the last right of Odessa Keys and a great run ending in flames with the finish in sight.

Yep, agreed

Depleting ship energy makes whole race TT's interesting-- though IMHO Pure ****ed this up by making BRs take an absolute amount, rather than percentage, of the shield energy-- so that ships with high shields are strongly favored for whole race TTs in Pure. I'm glad that Pulse changed that.

For lap TTs in Pure, the depleting energy is just a huge pain in the ass IMO.

I kinda think that SL could have better distinguished lap vs. whole race TTs in Pure and Pulse. I almost think the games would be better if whole race TTs had NON-replenishing ship energy while lap TTs DID have replenishing ship energy, and that each type of TT had their own mode (Time Trial vs. Free Play / Speed Lap) that kept track of times separately.

[leungbok]

This is an idea (to have 2 ranking tables) ! Instead of suppressing BR for a next wipeout, it can be great to have the actual option of desactivate them and also a TT/sl table with BR available and another without (maybe too mp/sr with and without br). Like this no more complains in the future, lol. And maybe some will compete on both sides, hé hé.

[Frances_Penfold]

I definitely think that split tables are the way to go in situations like this-- it's what other racing games do when there is a technique or strategy that divides the TT community (PRB in Mario Kart, Snaking and "Space Flight" in F-zero, etc.)

[SaturnReturn]

I like that idea. Competing on both sides would be great. Especially for people like me. First I could learn the tracks and the best lines without the barrel rolls, then once I felt I couldn't get much better, I could move onto the barrel roll events. I think it would lead to more people competing at the top level.

[lunar]

Like this no more complains in the future, lol.

In your dreams, buddy

Really I think split tables would be okay and satisfying, but it is nice and more interesting for us all to play together on one table. So really all that could be needed is non-replenishing energy for full race time trials, like Pure, while your shield tops up all the time in Speed Lap to avoid the Pure-style empty shields, which are annoying as Frances Penfold pointed out, and also thereby allowing BR madness (in speed lap) for those who wants it.

I mean I would like to see BRs gone altogether, but I do accept I might not be right all of the time and "anti-BR" people might never get their wish, so just making full race TTs limited in BRs like online races could be enough for me and some others, and make most full TT races look more like Leungbok`s videos above in this thread, and make TTs more smooth and tactical. This way there are enough BRs in the game for those who like them and not too many for those who can tolerate them. Maybe they got it (almost) right first time with Pure but could get it spot on next time with Frances Penfold`s suggestions.