Barrel Rolls in HD

[lunar]

Yes I definitely agree with the points about BRs in the above two posts. I would have preferred to see some energy management in TT aswell, like Pure had, as this would have made you be very careful about where you did your BRs, and most of the race would have been "straight" driving, but still requiring the odd Ninja moment, rather than the doing BRs the whole way. A Sebenco Climb Phantom TT could require about 25-30 Barrel Rolls, I think! Crazy. Also with limited BRs you have to fly cleanly, save your shield energy and not hit the walls, which is rewarding the player for driving well.

Maybe Speed Lap could have been kept for the BR-fests and TT kept tactical, but that`s only my preference. Online and SR are tactical with BRs, which is great and with BR combos seemingly gone aswell I think HD does hit a decent enough compromise for me.

[eLhabib]

Talking about energy management: I agree that it's very well balanced in HD, one thing does piss me off though. Scraping other ships, trading paint, takes away A LOT of energy. If I don't manage to break away from the pack, even in a no-weapons race, I sometimes lose more than a third of my shields just from being pushed around by other ships (no wall contact included!) - that is just crazy! If you grind along with another ships for 3 seconds, it wil take away as much energy as a missile hit! (at least from an Assegai, that is - can't say about the other ships)

[JABBERJAW]

I didnot realize that about scraping other ships, i wish that were minimal energy loss, if any at all

[Axel]

Whats really annoying is when your flying the Assagai, the ship is so light that any slight touch will just throw off. It's increasingly happening to me online where people are purposely pushing me off.

Meh, I kinda like the extra challenge, but it can really piss me off, especially after getting hit by a rocket and quake etc. The shield on that ship is way too low

[Amon]

I've noticed that problem on Assegai too.

For me, one more reason to pilot tanks like Quirex in close races. To me this is a positive thing, it widens the ship choices for races.

[G'Kyl]

Not sure about this, but it seems that the game gives you a better choice now to either battle, or try to get away from the pack (with risks) What do you guys think? girls?

From my experience, HD usually doesn't let you win races if you don't make extensive use of weapons. Doing perfect laps, getting all BRs and speed pads - and still being last is a bad thing to happen. I've always liked WO weapons - they look cool and are somewhat extraordinary. But when it comes down to racing I prefer, well, racing. HD forces me to go for wepaon instead of speed pads - which doesn't only forcibly change my way of flying, but als doesn't feel right. Well, for me, anyway.

Ben

[drenath]

I voted no. I feel they are gimmicky and cheapen the experience. It's not a "racing" maneuver.

My suggestion would be that BR's 'reward' is a partial restoration of lost shield energy. Like a free e-pak. That way there is some situational benefit to doing BR's, but they are not required to run a faster time.

No to hyperthrust also.

[eLhabib]

Great idea! Full approval

[Amon]

. That way there is some situational benefit to doing BR's, but they are not required to run a faster time.

So much simple that nobody thought about it before, great idea

[MadMax1978]

ok heres me tow cents on BR's

I think that it's ok to have them in the game as a fun factor so no speed boost.

or if the speed boosts is to be kept

If you do a BR at anytime during a race it will void your time for entry on the Global leader board.

[Lance]

That makes at least three good ways I've read about to keep barrel rolls in the game, but to avoid their being a bad influence on the racing.

[klax75]

Like other have said what if Barrels do nothing for speed of your craft when doing one it is more for "Free Style" points. Where it's not meant for speed boost.

At the end of your race you have your free style rating if you choose to do it or not.

So for example on your screen if you did 3 barrel rolls in one lap you get "Show Off!" and everyone else gets the message at the end of the race.

[Medusa]

Barrel rolls for energy!

Man, that is the greatest idea ever for barrel rolls. I really hope someone, anyone from SL sees this and considers it for the next game!

[captain howdy]

I really don't see the problem with the barrel rolls the way they're set up now. The tradeoff of energy for a speed boost is a great gameplay mechanic. You can only pull them off in midair, and if you do it too late and your ship doesn't complete its rotation before it hits the ground, you still lose energy without getting the boost. Because of this, I think barrel rolls are an excellent, tactical maneuver for players who wish to add it to their racing style. If some people are using them to great effect, then good for them. Some people are also good at side shifting during races. This has a less obvious impact on how well someone races, but certain people, like myself, don't like bothering with side shifting because it can be a little iffy to pull off (and sometimes when I do, I end up slamming into a wall). And when you see someone winning a race for pulling off a side shift at a key turn, you could say it makes me a worse racer for almost never using them.

The fact is, the way things are set up now, both barrel rolls and side shifting are advanced techniques that can help a good player perform better, if he or she knows how to use them to their advantage. Using them both requires a bit of extra skill and thought, so why shouldn't they reward the player with a speed burst or a cleaner racing line?

And, no, not everyone is that good with barrel rolls and yes, depending on who you're playing with, it's possible to win races without using them. But if you're a racer who can use them but just doesn't want to take advantage of them, well, that's kind of your own problem. Like me and my hesitancy to incorporate side shifting into my racing.

EDIT: And barrel rolls for energy? The whole point of barrel rolls is risk-reward. There would be no reason to discourage barrelling if the only effect from doing it was a reward. Racers who tend to barrel roll often would basically just be guaranteed that their ship never explodes. And to be good with barrelling, you need to be good with energy management anyway. It would kind of defeat the purpose of the technique... rather than making good players better, it would just make everyone who bothered trying them better.

[drenath]

BR's for energy is a compromise. It truly makes them 'optional', but beneficial nonetheless.

There are still downsides to BR's even without energy cost- temporary interference with steering and disorientation in the cockpit view are the two biggies.

What do you guys think about using BR's to evade certain weapons? (missiles/rockets, leach beam, cannon fire, etc)

[eLhabib]

Valid points from captain howdy, especially the last bit. Still, I don't like the fact that in order to be competitive in record tables, you have to adjust to barrel rolls - I think that's the major issue everyone here who is contra-BR has with the current system.

How about this: if you do a BR, you get a free weapon pick-up! That way it doesn't force you to use BRs for a quick laptime, but it still gives you an advantage in a race, and you can also choose to take the energy.

[drenath]

Weapon pickup works too. I find it so irritating when I can't get pickups because I'm right on someone's tail and they take them all!!

Hmm, BR's in Zone mode for shield energy could be pretty sick!

[lunar]

Barrel rolls are just old, there`s no way to put any gloss on them. If they come up in another new Wipeout it will start to look very tired. They got them right in Pure (regarding the effects they have on ship energy and gameplay), wrong in Pulse and a bit less wrong in HD, imnsfho But they`ve been in the last 3 games, which is fine and that`s the facts of it, I`ll get on with it and play the game. I`d just hope that if there`s another wipeout we could move on and SL come up with a new gameplay concept, either that or introduce backflips in exchange for autopilots.

[Paradoxx]

I hate that !

Why does it use some energy ?
Why does it make the ship accelerate ?

And about the "freestyle points" idea... just forget ! If you want freestyle points in a game, play to SSX or a tektonik game. Wipeout is about speed, pilot ability, and weapons in a certain limit.

What else for the future ? slide on the walls and the barriers like in a skate board game ?

[klax75]

You missed my point, the free style thing would mean nothing. The points would mean nothing. Just bragging rights if someone did it. It wouldn't effect the races at all. No benefit in lap times from a barrel roll. Barrel rolls are like a cheap gimmick to me, to make it like a X-Game event. It is the one feature that really turns me off on WipeOut. And I love the series, if you want to do any kind of record it's endless spamming barrel rolls.