10 Things I hate about WipEout Pulse

[Dogg Thang]

Then on the specifics, Bruce, we're actually in agreement. Which is nice!

[lunar]

I didn`t say it`s simply about difficulty options, I just said I see no harm in having them set wider. Having said I don`t mind that idea, I don`t see why anyone would ever be satisfied with a mode that was so easy you could get a medal while playing constant kill-the-walls, because Wipeout isn`t really any fun while you`re smashing the walls all the time anyway. Overcoming that is part of the point, as George pointed out. While it`s still bloody hard to beat the best players, I agree with many of the points made that the basic gameplay has got easier, but that`s a different matter, I think, and I`ve already contributed enough to the off-topic expedition!

[Lance]

To use reductio ad absurdum to point out what I believe to be the fallacy of the make-it-easier-for-newbies argument:

[sarcasm alert]I've got an idea: to make it easier for newbies or casual gamers to enjoy the game, we could ease the difficulty of getting at least a bronze medal so they can 'progress' through the game and open content by offering Level 1 difficulty rating, which would allow you to select a ship which would then be run by the autopilot and automatically win bronze. This would not cheapen the game at all or compromise its integrity nor make achievement empty. Level 2 would allow the user to have speed control, but automatically control all other functions, which would gradually all be put under player control by level 6, at which time you would be able to open exactly the same content as you would at level 1, but would actually have to work for it.[/end sarcasm alert]

Thoughts?

[master bruce]

To use reductio ad absurdum to point out what I believe to be the fallacy of the make-it-easier-for-newbies argument:

[sarcasm alert]I've got an idea: to make it easier for newbies or casual gamers to enjoy the game, we could ease the difficulty of getting at least a bronze medal so they can 'progress' through the game and open content by offering Level 1 difficulty rating, which would allow you to select a ship which would then be run by the autopilot and automatically win bronze. This would not cheapen the game at all or compromise its integrity nor make achievement empty. Level 2 would allow the user to have speed control, but automatically control all other functions, which would gradually all be put under player control by level 6, at which time you would be able to open exactly the same content as you would at level 1, but would actually have to work for it.[/end sarcasm alert]

Thoughts?

I think your argument has a fallacy...since it seems to imply that any game that has cheat codes are worthless.

I enjoy playing Wipeout because I gain satisfaction from mastering the vehicles, levels, and nuances of the game. My level of enjoyment is unchanged whether someone else plays the whole game on autopilot or not.

You seem to be saying that if someone else plays the game on autopilot, it will diminish the enjoyment I get from mastering Wipeout without it. And I simply don't see the connection.

For example, many old school games were challenging. But there were also cheat codes that allowed people to breeze through those games. According to your logic, those games would've all been worthless since there was the option of breezing through the game, yet it certainly wasn't the case.

[Task]

Oddly enough, in my opinion games with cheat codes ARE worthless.
I think if WOXL didn't have that "code input" screen I would like it more. As it is, it and WO64 are the versions I play the least.

Just my opinion, but it only takes one counter-example to disprove a general theory.

[master bruce]

that's a whole lot of games! and with game-genie/game shark, essentially every old school game had cheat codes.

[Task]

The difference between a cheat code (typing in "idgod") and a gameshark (specialized hardware/software to allow runtime memory editing) is pretty enormous.

Are you on the Analogy Police Top 10 Most Wanted list? 8 D

[q_dmc12]

LOL

[Animagic]

haha Task, nice.

[Colin Berry]

That's fine, Colin, but that doesn't have to be every game. That's what Burnout is for.

It's not every book either. And few, if any, books try to be all things to all people.

But it sounds a bit like you want WO to be all things to all gamers. And, in that scenario, something has to give. And I would say something has. When you take a game that required great skill, time and effort to learn and master, and say you want to cater to people who aren't able or willing to put any time into doing that, of course something's going to give.

I'm in my thirties with a young daughter too with little time to play games so I know where you're coming from. But I don't expect every game to cater to me and certainly wouldn't want games to try to be something they aren't at the expense of the actual fans to cater to me who will just pick it up and toss it after thirty minutes because that's all the time I'm willing to put into it. If they cut Final Fantasy games down to 15 minutes so people like me can see the ending, they wouldn't be doing the franchise a favour.

It's no different with WO.

What I actually said was

"sometimes I want a game that merely entertains me "

you missed the sometimes off my quote when you quoted me ....

I didnt say it had to be every game



I do however want wipeout to be more inclusive, traditionally it has been elitist and I dont know why that is seen as beneficial. I dont think it will ever be all things to all gamers, but I do know for a fact that it could be more appealing to more people, and I do know that as part of my job I have to make a game that appeals and is popular amongst more people than a top 0.1% hardcore. Through user testing and studies one thing that has always been levelled at Wipeout, be it from Sony Europe, Sony America or Sony Japan, is that the entry bar is too high, the game is too hard. So we were told to make Pulse easier, rather than make it easier across the board we included difficulty levels to allow new players to start on easy and not feel the traditional frustrations. We put hard in to provide a greater challenge to the more experienced player. We got it partly right, the easy mode is easy but the game is still frustrating for people who havent played it before, as such we have revised it further with Wipeout HD and introduced racising assists for new players who can turn them on / off to help them adjust to the controls of Wipeout.

But I can honestly say that if someone here has been playing wipeout for 10yrs then its very unlikely we will ever make a wipeout game that will be hard for them to play, because people have built up such a wealth of experience and skill. Each time a new pro evo comes out I set it to difficulty max but its not long before I have it mastered and the challenge comes from playing other people not the AI. It was the same with Street Fighter in years gone by. It is the same for some people with Wipeout and that unfortunately comes from being a dedicated fanatic.

But then I still cant see how a hardcore players experience of wipeout is cheapened by making the easy mode easier which was what masterbruce suggested.

Now if you feel the game as a whole has been made easier that is really a different argument, its not what he (masterbruce) suggested nor advocated. And it is true, the handling model is more forgiving than earlier days the physics etc have changed over time, and I am sure for some people it is a change for the worse, likewise for some a change for the better. Am I completely happy with the game its handling, physics etc... It depends who you are speaking to... Colin Berry the Designer who has a job to do and has to adhere to certain criteria and answer to other people, or Colin Berry the Wipeout fan (who adores 2097 and dislikes Wo3) then well.. . . . . .. As either I am never satisfied and often for different reasons.
I am not making the game for me, it isnt nor should it ever be Colin Berrys Wipeout. I am happy with many shifts in the game and with many things it does, I get my personal stamp on a lot of it and I get to help steer the direction, but I do not have complete control to do as I choose. That doesnt mean I personally as a wipeout fan agree or disagree with everything. I dont. But I win more battles than I lose and the designers tend to get a good enough say in things. Sometimes we have to give a little to get a little though.

[Sausehuhn]

Always nice to see the developers giving their statements.
Could you tell us a bit more about the WO:HD's assistant? I can't quite imagine that right now

And there was a thing that just came to my mind. Why not make 10 difficulty levels you can select from a sliding bar? So if you feel like "easy" is to easy and "hard" is too challenging, you take whatever in between. I think that would make sense

Ah and btw: why don't you give your stamp a bit of WO:2097's handling and floatiness?

[Asayyeah]

Awesome posts Colin, thx for spending time lurking and posting when you got time.
As you know i am a deep passionated wipeout pilot and be qualified to include the 0.01% of Wipeout hardcore racers list and i am completely ok to let the game easier access for the newbee and make the game harder for us the diehard pilots without degrading the gameplay. What you did for Pulse with the 3 categories of AI is great, maybe like few others said let the 'easy' been easier and the hard far more harder. and set up about TT a platinum medal = racing the racetimeghost of your best beta tester or someone from here

[Colin Berry]

Well we are currently finalising the difficulty for HD and we are making the easy a little easier.... we are also making the hard... harder. We are going to try and push it to as hard as we can / are allowed to (note this is the AI not time requirements)

We've made a few other little changes too, a couple of weapons pads have gone from a few tracks, the barrel roll remains but gives less of a boost, its less of a deal breaker... it also costs more energy to use it so it becomes far harder to chain them and more of a risk, its something we are still fiddling with to find something we are totally happy with. The aggression has been toned down a little, but you still get some races that have a lot of weapons and others than dont, its the nature of the randomness of the weapon pick up logic but I'd say its reaching a happier balance, in 10 race you might have 2 sedate, 2 weapon heavy and 6 around middling...

There are lots of other refinements and little additions but I dont want to say too much other than mention the above as these are things oft commented on. And ther eis one thing thats going to blow people away, but words cant do it justice.

Naturally I am bias, but right now HD is looking pretty damn good and though there are many things left to polish and fix and get done and time is as ever against us, its shaping up well.

Its probably the happiest and most confident I've been about a project at this stage of development, seems every 2 weeks when I sit back and look at it in a detached way, its really moved on in many aspects. Lots of work remains though

[G-Hob]

Sorry to barge in and fire off a question, but is there any chance Wipeout HD will let you scrape against walls without slowing down like you could in 2097?

I think it would make the game more appealing & inclusive if just barely scraping against a wall gave you a cool graphical & sound effect, rather than immediately slowing you down.

[phl0w]

"barely scraping against a wall" does not slow you down that much in Pulse either. The difference is, that in Pulse you will get sucked against a wall more and more (depending on your ship's angle against the wall this sometimes happens immediately) if you don't sideshift your ship away from it.

@Topic: I can't remember who suggested it, but having Ghosts to beat like in F-Zero or MarioKart is a great idea. Like in those mentioned games it could be an option that unlocks after you beat the (already very hard) Gold requirements. I mean, there simply has to be something in games that should be possible in theory but remain unreachable for the majority of gamers in practice.

[lunar]

We already have that, it`s called "beating Arnaud."

Thanks for that great information, Colin. I`m very excited about the whole thing now, and love the sound of the developments, in particular what you`re doing to the dreaded Barrel Roll.

[Asayyeah]

lol Stephen

[guillaume]

Slightly off-topic, can anyone confirm (or not) that you won't get a perfect lap in SR if you touch a ship, even if you don't touch any walls?

Oh, I'll be delighted to answer!
Well I don't know about Single Races, but that indeed happens in Head To Head.
I'll get back to you as soon as I have more information!

[Asayyeah]

Sorry not to answer you sooner, with Dag we tested it last time and if you been hit by a weapon or a ship or a wall in SR you won't have a perfect lap

[guillaume]

Oh don't be sorry, I was just joking
And thanks for the answer!
Even with a weapon? Do you reckon this was done on purpose?
It's a bit hard, don't you think?