Xpand teams

[KGB]

Don't highlight certain parts of the quote in order to suggest I'm accusing you of cheating please. I'm not. Also it's my view, not the BRBs. I've had no discussion with any team mates about it.

These disconnections have happened since the game was released and has been discussed many times. No one likes playing the same track over and over again, and I do believe it is in the back of some peoples minds (including mine, I admit. Very cynical of me) that there may be something astray when it happens. I just would like a set rule that is fair to everyone which would include no restarts.

[ACE-FLO]

This restarting races over and over is a pain.

...in the ass!

Personally I think that if you disconnect during a race the result should stand and then the member who left can rejoin after. This would take away all doubt that someone is doing it on purpose, which I think some of us believe could happen.

you know, now that you mention it - it puts doubts in my head too!!! (not that I am accusing anyone, just that it is a possibility you know?) Thanks for pointing that one out mate! Hmmm... thinking hats come back on

As a general rule it doesn't happen much, It may happen less if this rule was included.

Yes, meaning that with the current scoring system employed in HD Fury - that would earn a pilot 0 points for disconnecting... seems a bit harsh but necessary imo! The way I see it, if an F1 drivers car had a fault, he'd have to leave the race - the race still goes on regardless and the track is not repeated for the sake of one F1 driver. Why can't it be the same here? If a Pilot disconnects - they sit that one out and get 0 points for it - the track doesnt get repeated the tournament carries on with the disconnected pilot taking part in the following race as normal.

Oh, and any xpand tourney would be better hosted on a race by race basis - instead of hosting a tournament, as Disconnections will suck the fun out of our allocated gaming time for that session... some of us do have other schitt to get on with. Last night, it took the best part of 15 mins to run one race because of DC's mid tourney - and the hoister having to re-host the tourney from cut off point... If hosted on a single race by race basis - this problem would have been halved!

Ace
A.L.T.E.R.N

EDIT: Having probs with a certain aspect of Team Barrel Roll Barbarians team Logo - it wont be finished for today but as a means of compensating you all - I have found this to share with you, enjoy yourselves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5stAUnMns - it kills me it does! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcc9Sakr-w&NR=1 seriouisly, this is genius ... but this one puts it all into perspective for us barbarians http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkJv...eature=related

[Dark_Phantom_89]

LOL those videos were brilliant ACE! "Do a barrel roll!!"

And phaeton, we won't do the race again - no matter what method we used, Team Poland still won, so congratulations to you guys

[SaturnReturn]

I supported the idea of single races for these types of events when this discussion came up before. I changed my mind a bit though. Single races are a pain in the arse too. People's places aren't randomised properly and you often end up with the same starting order race after race. It can give one team a big advantage if it's really bad. Tournament formats are definitely fairer in terms of grid placing.

I think what I suggested at some point before was to race in 4 race tournaments. Each 4 races each team can have 1 restart, after which the 4 race tournament carries on. Then if one player disconnects 2 or 3 times, depending on tourney length, then they drop out, and are replaced by a sub, or not if there's no sub available. If disconnections are happening on both sides all the time then postponing would be the best option.

Strangely, after all the discussion, we didn't really have any issues in the World Cup. I think there was only 1 restart. I guess we got lucky, and there have definitely been more disconnections recently.

Giving someone zero points might seem fair, and I wouldn't really have much of a problem with it, but comparing it to reliability on F1 races doesn't really work IMO, because genuine disconnections are often more to do with the reliability of the PSN than the individuals' hardware or connection, although not always.

[ACE-FLO]

Good ideas SR

Giving someone zero points might seem fair, ...but ...~snip~

True, well said - and my example for F1 was just for reference as a working system. Say an F1 teams car gets shorted out mid race - that is comparable to a DC imo... yes, we are playing on a virtual race track whereby DC mid race and real life technical probs with an F1 car seem worlds apart, but essentially - it is still racing, and we are having probs which draw a parrallel with F1 in that regard.

The whole thing with restarting a race due to DCs is going to cause problems, especially now that some of us (including me) think DCing could be used as a tactic to get different results from the restarted race, in future races... hmmm...

Let's hope we get this sorted quickly

[Dark_Phantom_89]

I'm all for counting a disconnect as 0 points and allowing the disconnected player to return for the next race from now on.

[SaturnReturn]

I never really thought badly about disconnections myself. I can't think why anyone would do it knowing how a race can turn around at any time. When a Frenchman disconnected against TFD in the World Cup, it actually benefited us, not the French. But if it started happening frequently after some racers had finished, then perhaps I'd be more skeptical.

Maybe it's that simple - no restarts after lap 3 or 4, or something.

[Amorbis]

Disconnecting within this community seems too unlikely, I don't think anyone in the Xpand league would do that. I know people could build a reputation for disconnecting, but whose to say it wouldn't be their internet at fault?

If we were to go down the DNF route it would help speed things up. Sacrificing points for getting things done seems OK enough for me and if a person's disconnects persist then it's probably better that they sit out so they can sort things out. But with sitting out we'd have to use Saturn's idea of four tournaments with four races, just so a team isn't severely disadvantaged. This way scores wouldn't be so changed as seen in yesterday's BRB vs. Poland match. I'm not accusing Poland of cheating, after all we had as many disconnects as them.

[ACE-FLO]

I can roll with that!

[Amorbis]

No restarts after lap 3/4 sounds good to me. Lap 4 sounds like the best option as that way the results won't change as much as they could have in lap 3. But lap 3 is quite far into the race when you think about it.

[ACE-FLO]

OK - sounds good, but um - Lap 4 from when? I mean - who decides it's lap 4? If in an 8 player race Deepmix is leading and in lap 4 whils I'm in last place and in lap 3 - and say Pilot X disconnects whilst he/she in in lap 3 - does that race get restarted or does it carry onwards and a penalty of 0points awarded to DC'd pilot?

[IDReaper]

The four tourney's idea sounds like a good one too. However the grid will be affected, not to the degree of single races but it could make a difference. Still sounds like it is more of a benefit though.

Also by ACE-FLO's logic I see the flaw in my previous plan as far a cheating. Say a player is in last but has a first place team member n the race. Said player d/c. The re-race starts and the d/c gets first. So instead of 8+_+_+0 for the two racers it becomes 8+8+_+_ giving that team a massive advantage. Although I doubt anyone here would do that it is exploitable.

@ACE-FLO
We could just go by the final lap indicator, everyone hears that at the same time.

[phaeton_pl]

DNF = 0 point

It's the best option if you ask me. Clear and simple rule.

[Amorbis]

I would of thought that if 1st place is on lap 4 then it should count as lap 4. If the person in first was to disconnect then it would quite an annoyance, though. And if someone in last was to get disconnected whilst the person in first was on lap 4 and the person in last on lap 3 that would also be frustrating. But we can't please everyone and keep the tournament going at a steady pace, or can we?

[IDReaper]

Well I have a question, if some d/c and gets 0 points, but rejoins before the next race, will the game place that player in pole position? If so then I think we can just stick with that as fair.

[kaori]

It's the hoster will start first, then it depends of the order the hoster invite players.

[ACE-FLO]

Guys - who out you long time Pulsers ever raced TeamLink Division (basically xpand but on PSP Pulse) with Archman and us last year? We had clear rules for DC pilots - and a whole new scoring system to boot.

ATM - HD Fury, like Pulse allocates points in tourneys in the following format:

1st - 8points
2nd - 6points
3rd - 5points
4th - 4points
5th - 3points
6th - 2points
7th - 1points
8th - 0points

Meaning Disconnected Pilot gets 0points - even if he Disconnected in the 5th lap whilst he/she is in the top 3 postions... seems harsher now doesn't it?

A revised point scoring system for Xpand tourneys which allow for Disconnected pilots to recieve points as a means of compensatory allocation could be quite beneficial in the interest of fairness... let me explain.

Here is a points system I have worked out for Xpand league tourneys:

1st - 12 points
2nd - 10 points
3rd - 8 points
4th - 6 points
5th - 5 points
6th - 4 points
7th - 3 points
8th - 2 points
Disconnection - 1 point

What do you guys think? ofcourse - it would mean that someone who knows programming would have to make a C+ app to sort the data for points though... but hey, it's a solution.

[kaori]

No Ace, I prefer to keep the points system of WipEout, it's the same since Pure and it rocks.

[ACE-FLO]

Sure - just had to get the TeamLink idea out of my head and onto forum - I could't stand thinking sbout it and thinking "I haven't said anything" you know?

As long as we all happy with the 0points for DC rule - we got it sorted!

Kaori - can you update the rules now?

It's the hoster will start first, then it depends of the order the hoster invite players.

Would it be fairer for the hoster to invite pilots into the room like from team a, then team b then team a then team b etc - so the start grid order is fairer also?

[Ace3cube]

Ace3cube jumps all around the thread