Are your Wipeout 3 skills rubbish now thanks to Fusion?

**Lance** · 23rd February 2002, 06:35 AM

the aerodynamics must be figured in because you can feel and see the ship slow down in a nose-high attitude. for a while i used that when entering the mega mall spiral in the faster classes to reduce the wall-banging. i've also used it off the big jump at p-mar to slow down enough to keep from going uncontrollably [for me :wink: ] fast at the end of the straight. and the amount of slowdown seems proportional to the amount of the angle of attitude.

as Al says, it also seems to give some extra margin in the corners before scraping or hitting. to me, it feels almost like there's a bit of an air-cushion between the ship and the wall when you're heeled way over and nose up. mostly i've just used that in the last tunnel on p-mar, but i should use in a lot more corners.

Al, now that you've played Fusion a lot, do you prefer the ship physics to those of WO3? or do you still like the earlier higher-flying behaviour?

**Confusion** · 23rd February 2002, 11:20 AM

Pointing the nose up whilst going around tight corner in WO3 helps loads. When you scrape around the outside edge of that corner with the nose up it seems like you are using that outside wall to boost off or something.

I suppose it's like when an aircraft comes close to the ground and pulsl up at teh last minute... like a sudden extra boost from the floor to make it turn better...

**jmoid** · 23rd February 2002, 02:16 PM

also if you want to take a croner really tight, push the nose down. it's a little more tricky but it works too.

**BenjaminSoulé** · 23rd February 2002, 03:13 PM

maybe I`ve not playing enough to fusion but when I try to put the nose up or dowm, it seems to only affect view (I use the inside view).
In the air it seems to affect the gravity but very basically, not a really aerodinamic feeling.
If I compare Pmar 2d jump with Alcavexus Cascade jump (or Florion3 jump) there are very differents.
While you re flying on pmar its like you control a plane, you can control a lot of parameters. However in fusion, the jump look alway the same, your moves seems to affect slightly the jump speed and the landing...

Al : I would like to know what you`re meaning by "it control a little different".
Is the pitch as important in fusion than in the other Wo game ? it doesn`t reaaly seems to be...

**jmoid** · 23rd February 2002, 03:19 PM

imho:

pitch control in 2097 & wip3out = absolutely crucial

pitch control in fusion = almost non-existant

**zargz** · 23rd February 2002, 03:46 PM

stanza rulez!

**science** · 25th February 2002, 06:17 AM

to go back just a little bit, someone said that they were glad that they took the bouncy feel out of fusion because they were tired of hitting the track/ceiling, etc. (should have used the quote button, huh?)
honestly, i think that its too bad that they took that out of fusion. every element you remove from the game makes it less challenging. in wipeout3, on top of airbrakes, you have to perfect where to dump some hyperthrust, and where you should pull you nose up or push it down if you wanna come out with some really great times.
i think that its a shame that they took both of those elements out of fusion.

**BenjaminSoulé** · 25th February 2002, 10:14 AM

I`m not really sure they "wanted" to remove it...
Maybe it`s a choice because it was difficult to keep aerodynamic realism and also include twisted road and loop.
It`s just a supposition since I can`t imagine how this two parts could be coded in the same engine.

Fox, I would be very happy, if you could answer this question by asking to the develloper team. I`m really interested in game devellopement.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BenjaminSoulé on 2002-02-25 11:15 ]</font>

**infoxicated** · 25th February 2002, 11:25 AM

As far as I know the dev team never really looked at Wipeout 3 during the development of Fusion. They concentrated more on 2097 and the original.

The craft have two physics models, if I remember correctly - one for on the surface and the other for in the air. So when you're going fast enough to leave the track it changes models so the craft behaves differently. That's all I know about that aspect of the game.

**Lance** · 25th February 2002, 06:59 PM

WO3 was done by the Leeds studio, so when Liverpool studio developed Fusion, they followed their own earlier work of WO and WO2097. 3 seems to be the only one that has that 'flying' feeling to it. when i take off 2097's big jump before the finish at Gare d'Europa, it feels like i'm pilotiing a rock. there seems to be a bit less aerodynamic effect in it than there was in WO.

the two studios have a somewhat different take on the game, but both of them work. i happen to prefer the more aerodynamic model of WO3.

i think that both of the visuals approaches are valid, but that's another subject.

does anyone know if the Leeds studio is still in existence and what they might be doing?

**JABBERJAW** · 25th February 2002, 09:57 PM

I believe it still helps, but not as much(especially in zone mode). On regular races it is still good for cornering though. It doesn't give you the higher area for not hitting, however, it still slows you down and helps in conjunction with airbrakes

**vincoof** · 25th February 2002, 10:03 PM

infox: sometimes we can see the 'two physics'. Hopefully, it is often well done.
But when not done correctly, it really looks crap. For instance in the track of the gold pirhana challenge (don't remember the name of the track.. sorry) if you fly through small jumps "as is", then you incredibly stick to the track (zargz will b happy

rin

, otherwise if you pull the nose up you incredibly "take off" and can't land correctly. That's very annoying. It resembles alot of a bug but in fact it's just crap physics engine :sad: (IMO of course)

**infoxicated** · 26th February 2002, 08:48 AM

And you want me to do what about that?

**vincoof** · 26th February 2002, 08:32 PM

hey I'm not asking you to do anything about it.
Otherwise I would have posted it in The Evolution Engine :wink:

I don't like saying the game is crap, but that part is IMO the worst of all. I can admit all of the other bugs, and I can understand why they're here.
But the 'two physics' really look bad on that specific track.
In fact it is the _only_ thing that really pisses me off in the game.

Sorry infox ^^'

Nothing pisses me off in wo1
Piranha's (note the syntax :wink overall superiority pisses me off in wo2097/xl.
The baby difficulty pisses me off in wo3
The randomness of the savegames pisses me off in wo64
And the ground physics being different than air physics pisses me off in Fusion

And sorry about the _bad_ language. I need more vocabulary. :razz:

**Lance** · 26th February 2002, 10:34 PM

the baby difficulty?

**BenjaminSoulé** · 27th February 2002, 12:05 AM

yes, in Wo3 unlocking all the feature is a long work, but no very difficult.
In WipeOut series I`m not interested in progression system since I prefer challenge and dual versus real people, so I don`t care the "Baby difficulty" of wo3.

I really agree with your "Wipeout Series description", Vincoof, on every points.

Maybe I should add for WO1 : Bug when you hit a computer, being accelerated and rushed into nearest the wall

**vincoof** · 27th February 2002, 07:12 AM

Lance: just an example at PortoKora / Phantom / SR : If you race the Icaras, you can go to the first place (easily) and then you can lap the second pilot, right ? I think everybody can. But it is possible to lap this pilot twice ! And if you race very well and have damn luck (eg good weapons) you can lap him three times !!
It's absolutely impossible to lap the second pilot three times in any other WipEout.

The *hard* parts of wip3out are :

The Feisar Phantom SR medals, because the ship is damn too slow.
Some of the challenges,
The last prototype (the 4th) at phantom,
And the race time to beat at terminal/rapier. (but I think it was a typo error because the time has changed in wo3se)

and all of the rest of the game is _very_ easy.
So, you won't have much of a challenge in a tournament (for instance) unless you stick to race with Feisar.

Ben: You're right about that WO1 thing, but it does not "pisses me off". In fact, I try to play with it when I can because it gives you an awesome free boost ! It's like the scraping turbo : it can be good or bad, but you deserve what you get. :smile:

**Lance** · 27th February 2002, 08:48 AM

i was wondering how babies might come into it. i would have just said that it was too easy. ''baby difficulty'' is just not a phrase that comes to mind. i've never heard it used here in the U.S. it must be one of those idiomatic french things, cos you and ben both are on the same wavelength with that expression. :smile:
ben understood what you meant right away.

i could, of course, be wrong.

**Wiseman** · 27th February 2002, 09:46 AM

Actually, from what I get from it, it's kinda a double meaning.

He's not only refering to the fact that Wip3out is easy, but that it's long as well... hence 'baby steps', there are many stages involved in beating Wip3out, but they are mostly easy.

I pretty much got what he ment right away, I've actually heard that term used before....

But then again half my family was born somewhere in Europe, so....

::shrugs::

**Hyper Shadow** · 27th February 2002, 09:58 AM

I thought that the learning curve in Wip3out was excellent. But in saying that, it was the first ever Wip3out that I ever played, and the way the game progressed meant that my skills improved as I got onto the harder difficulties, plus with the more things available to win, I actually felt that I was progressing, rather than 2097 with the high learning curve and difficult challenges, my attention waned as I found that I couldn't achieve the goals. The same is for zone mode.

But in saying that, a seasoned veteran may find Wip3out too easy for the exact same reasons that I am praising it.

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