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Thread: New Game Mode Idea

  1. #41
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    I always liked the flip button, the only thing I would worry about is copyright issues with Sony. That's the only way that a main cannon would work though, although that might interrupt the speed flow of the game. I guess the minigun could just be a locking cannon, so it would be less powerful. Also, just because it's "locking" doesn't necessarily mean that every shot hits. It could be programmed to where it can't turn very fast so the Zombie ships can avoid some of the bullets to make it more fair.

    My concept really does look like the FEISAR Prototype, doesn't it? I never really noticed that, but once you said it, I see exactly what you said, it does have a lot of resemblance. I've always been a fan of the 2048 style ships, so I guess that's shining through.

    I like your ideas for Sao Paulo, that's what I would guess that they are planning to do, maybe with some skillcuts, narrow sections, and stuff like the 2048 tracks. Overall I think we have a good start on this mode, with some work to do, but we'll get there!

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    I highly doubt that Sony would copyright the "Flip" button, otherwise they would have shut down the entire project already. It's still a good idea, and I highly doubt that Sony gives a crap about the Wipeout series anyway (even though that they still keep the servers going), so no troubles there (not certain, just most likely).

    Anyways, with the minigun, why not make it user controlled (like World of Tanks where you control how you rotate your weapon and where you rotate it)? Also, with the Sao Paulo sections, why not make some of them underground like Subway from 2048, as that was quite fun. (I don't actually own 2048, but I have played it on my friend's Vita) Also, what about the boss concept ship? Have you gotten started on that? I think that it should be based off of a triple or dual-hulled ship, or possibly one of the Fighter Class ships from 2048.

    We're getting there to making this game a reality, and it's just only going to be a matter of time until we get there!

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    They wouldn't copyright the flip button, but they copyrighted WipEout, therefore ALL intellectual property is copyrighted. We already worry about barrel rolls and sideshifts, it would just be best nod to add to many more, plus like interrupt the flow of the mode to be flipping around all the time. It was good for eliminator, but I don't know how well it would work for this.

    And about Sony, I must disagree. I think they always cared about WipEout, and still regard it as important, just look at the heritage video they posted recently, it's chalked full of WipEout references. It may not have been their favorite franchise, but I think they always cared about it, even if their decisions may not have been the best for it.

    The problem with making the minigun user controlled is that you would then have to be using both airbrakes, turn buttons, cannon control buttons, and fire buttons all at the same time. I don't know about you but I couldn't do it. It would be too hard to try to evade the zombies and shoot them accurately while controlling a cannon at the same time. It would make it more fair, but way too hard to do.

    I like the idea of an underground section in Sao Paulo, that would be cool. And for the Boss ship, I actually didn't think about it, I always just thought of having a different skin on the Zombie ship. It just depends on if the devs want to model a third new ship for one game mode. If they do, I would be happy to submit ideas, but we'll have to see what they say first.

    Also as a sidenote to the devs, have you guys worked out how the barrel roll system will work yet? I have some ideas if you haven't, so keep me posted!

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    We will have multirolls, the more rolls you do, the higher the boost, but the more integrity you loose. It is actually implemented into the latest demo already, but fine-tuning will always happen

    And yeah, the Flip-button would kill the speed of the mode. After all, you gotta remind yourself that we might not have a Zone mode, and that this mode MIGHT be a replacement. So I'd go with something that doesn't kill the speed. And yeah, the whole concept with the cannon is rather difficult, maybe we need to think about something completely different when it comes to attacking.

    Do you guys know games like Slender? It is somewhat scary and challenging cuz you are haunted by a creature and you have nothing more than a flashlight. You can't defent yourself, you can only run. Maybe we could do something like this, you only need to get away from the Zombies as your primary goal. Now that would destroy the checkpoint & Zombie respawn thingy we have talked about, but maybe we can find some new ideas. Just wanna say that we don't HAVE to include weapons, or at least it doesn't have to be a Cannon if it won't work out for that mode...

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    TBH, I think that gamemode you described could grow into another mode alltogether as sort of a Cops and Robbers mode. What I think that we're doing is to keep as close to the 2048 variant of Zombie mode as possible, so removing the cannon would just destroy the mode. However, I don't know a better option to help the speed of the mode along with keeping it in-line with the style of 2048.

    Anyone have any other ideas?

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    We're not just stealing 2048's Zombie mode, we're creating something of our own. Plus, their the developers, and their say is final, we're just brainstormers here. I'm perfectly fine with having a sort of Survival mode, maybe you could have an option for cannon on or off. What do you think about that?

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    Great idea. However, I think that we should lower the amount of zombies if you select the cannon to be off so that you don't die instantly as soon as you spawn. The checkpoint idea might be a good idea for both modes because the zombies can just wait for you to pass and then they will join pursuit. With Sao Paulo, I think that it would also be a good idea if we include open sections like in Fusion to allow you to lure zombies to smash into obstacles, allowing you some breathing room.

    Also, is there going to be rubber - band AI for both cannon on and off? I honestly hope not, as there should be an acomplishment to actually outrun the zombies rather than just getting beaten the crap out of.

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    There would have to be a rubber banding system, otherwise you could just lag behind the zombies, the mode would have to be extremely rubber banded, so players of all skill levels could play it. Of course, the AI wouldn't react instantly, and agile and fast flying would help you avoid them and survive longer, which is the point of the game. You could program the Zombies so they are not quite as agile as the player, to keep the mode interesting when it comes to evasion.

    I don't think the open sections would work in a city layout, there's just no way to implement it logically, in a tight, cosmopolitan city, the streets would not open up much. Keep in mind that it will also be a racing circuit, not just a zombie circuit, so it will have to work smoothly for both.

    The mode itself would have to be altered if there was a on/off option; from what Kai says it sounds like the Zombies would not die if weapons were off, so your score would be measured by time of survival. (Am I interpreting that right?) I also was wondering if you would accept concept sketches for the Sao Paulo circuit, just to provide some ideas as far as scenery, corner layouts, skillcuts, etc.

    As for the BRs, how does the energy/boost system of the multiroll work? Does the energy cost and the boost decrease after the first roll, or does it stay constant? I know you guys were playing with ideas earlier, and I'm eager to know what you came up with.

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    We have some slight rubber-banding in our demo already. Damian can provide more details about the strength.

    I can see both points. There should be some rubber banding or skilled people will get bored with that race mode. But on the other hand you also gotta give the player some reward for running from the Zombies. This whole idea is going a bit complicated, but that is perfectly cool since we are going deeper into the details of the racemode.
    To be honest, up to this point I don't see any good way to have circuit tracks available for the Zombie mode. If the Sao Paulo city really provides some open-world [even it will be very limited anyways], you could run from them, face single ones, hide and refresh energy or work out a plan or have fast paced chase races... It works nice there, and you can even use the cannon the way the cannon works right now, because you have the possibility to approach the Zombies from behind, from side streets, bridges, shortcuts etc.

    It all depends on how exactly the city layout will look and how opened it will be for the player. And the reference persons for that are Ric & Theo [Xpand & Oryx Crake]. So maybe we gotta wait for their reply.

    For the BR's: Currently it is like this: You roll one time, energy gets drained and a boost charges. If you still have airtime, you can try to execute a second roll. If it is successful, even more energy got drained [but not as much as the first time] and the boost charges even more. Same with the third roll. So a triple-roll would really make sense on places where there is a long straight ahead, or at least no technical section.

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    Well I'm not opposed to only running it on the Sao Paulo circuit, it sounds pretty amazing from what you've said about it. If that's our best option, then let's go for it, and if we only have the forward cannon, it kind of incorporates the defenseless part when the zombies are behind you and the attacking part when they are ahead of you, like the best of both. I still think the best way to work the rubber banding is to just have a delay between when you get away from the zombies, and when they react to speed up to you. Therefore you would have a short break and not lose energy during that time. The BRs sound good too, I was just wondering how you ended up configuring that, sounds like it will be fun to try to cram a few BRs into the Nazca skillcut!

    On a sidenote while we are talking about difficulty and rubber banding, I would suggest a harder yet difficulty for the single race and endurance modes, either that or to reduce the difference between the ship stats, because with iFreet, ATLAS, LOGOS, and Solaris, I can easily win any race even on Cassandra, which seems to have harder AI than Draco Cavernae. It would be cool (and challenging) to have a super hard mode, where you can never guarantee your victory, or something to even the ships. If I were to rank the ships as far as ease-of-winning goes, it would be:

    Easiest to Hardest:

    iFreet
    ATLAS
    LOGOS
    Solaris
    CEN-R
    Amphithere
    Zepher
    Helios

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    Well the current AI difficulty level will be expanded. I think we haven't really lost a word about it yet so let me catch up with that!

    Damian and I have worked out a concept for the AI. Each game has a more or less unique AI, or even a certain system of AI behind it. SSGX will be no difference. Next to the normal difficulty setup, you can also activate certain modules for the AI. We call this system 'TMRS'. Each letter represents an unique module. So weakest AI would be without TMRS, and strongest AI would be with TMRS fully activated, while a medium AI could have only TS for example.

    [T]actics = AI drops Mines etc. on technical & narrow sections, absorbs front assault weapons when racing on 1st place rather than firing them, drops Mines etc. if a ship is directly behind.
    [M]isjudgement = Going away from making the AI too robot-alike by introducing flight/tactics mistakes randomly. This also helps in making the AI unpredictable.
    [R]age = Everyone of us raged before, right? So the AI should do that aswell. If you aim for one and the same ship all the time, that dude will take it personal and will focus on putting some fire under your a** rather than winning the race.
    [S]kills = Giving the AI the ability to drive skillcuts, perform barrelrolls, perform sideshift-barrelrolls etc.

    Of course those are all just some examples. And it will also take a while to implement all of this feature but we are looking forward to do so since you have the ability to modify the intelligence of the AI with a much deeper setup rather than "easy, medium & hard". Due to the time-consuming progress, the TMRS wasn't available in the October demo.

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    Okay, cool, I like the "Rage" feature, good work there. Overall, good ideas, I think those are things that some good racing games lack (especially the rage!)

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    Amazing. Will we have advanced settings as well (where TMRS should be located)? As DDD said, most racing games like GT5 and Forza 4 just have a simple AI that you can outsmart. However, with TMRS (which I think that it may be really hard to code ), this shouldn't really be a problem. I think it may feel that you're actually in a real online multiplayer game providing you get it correct!

    EDIT: New game modes!

    Survival Racing: All you have to do is to beat a certain race time. However, there is a catch! All of your opponents are in very large and heavy ships (Similar to the Helios 1C, or the Hummer H1), and they are going the opposite direction! If you have a big crash with one of them, your craft will be instantly eliminated. Other than having a big crash with one of the oncoming ships, then you will not take integrity damage, even for barrel rolling. If you fail to beat the target time, then you will also be instantly eliminated.

    The extension to this is Infinite Survival. The basic concept is the same. However, instead of trying to beat a time, you have to survive as long as you can. You start with only one oncoming ship, but every 10 seconds, another ship joins in. You get 2 heavy crashes this time instead of 1.

    Scores will be worked on later.

    ____________________________

    Not really a game mode, but an idea: Simulation Damage

    This might not be included in the game, but it might be an idea to consider. I'm pretty shaky to see this in the game, but I think that this idea is worth sharing.

    Your ship will not only take integrity damage when hit, but it will also start to suffer mechanical problems. The only way to fix these problems is to absorb weapons. Each weapon absorbed will repair all damaged systems by 15%.

    For example...

    If you got hit in the front, you will possibly suffer:

    [Damage: Effects]
    Front Aero Damage: If your Rear Aero is not damaged/destroyed, your craft will understeer a lot more depending on the damage through the corners, and your top speed will be hampered depending on the damage of your Front Aero.

    Weapon System Damage: Your weapon pickups will be restricted depending on the damage of your Weapon System. If it is destroyed, you will only be able to pick up Mines, but only 2 mines will be deployed. Your own weapon damaging effects will be also reduced depending on the damage of your Weapon Systems.

    If you got hit in the sides, you will suffer:

    Steering Damage: Your craft will be harder to turn and will steer to one side naturally. This is varied depending on the damage of your steering.

    Anti-Grav System Damage: Depending on the damage of this system's damage, your craft will bounce, becoming harder to control, and sink lower to the ground. This causes the craft to scrape along the ground, which will lose you speed.

    Side Aero Damage: The least important thing to get damaged. Your Anti-Grav System, your Weapons System, and your Steering are completely safe until one of these are fully damaged (Only hits from the destroyed Aero will count for other damage, the other does not until it is destroyed also). These cannot be repaired unless you complete a lap. Once you do complete a lap, these will both be repaired by 10 percent.

    Finally, if you get hit from the rear, you will suffer:

    Rear Aero Damage: Your craft's back end will come out more often, making it harder to control through the corners. Your Engine and Airbrakes are safe until the Rear Aero is destroyed. (You can absorb collected weaponry to repair this, but it will only repair 10% of your damage) Your craft will also suffer a drop in top speed as well.

    Airbrake Damage: Possibly the second worst type of damage possible. When this system is damaged, your airbrakes will function slower and eventually, not work at all. As always, this varies on the damage level of your Airbrake system.

    Engine Damage: The worst kind of damage of the lot. Your thrust and top speed will drop dramatically. Once your engine is destroyed, you will be barely able to sustain 200 Km/h on Gamma class.

    In conclusion, Simulation Damage does seem very overkill, but I think it's worth sharing. Comments?

    ________________

    Hot Potato/Timebomb:

    This is a Last Man Standing/Tag cross. At the start of a race, 2 random ships (except the race leader, who is immune to having a bomb), have bombs. The bombs have a fuse set for 60 seconds. The 2 ships have to ram (tag) other ships to pass the bomb to them. If a bomb-carrying ship tags another ship, then the tagged ship gets the bomb and cannot tag anyone else for 2 seconds. Meanwhile, the previous bomb-carrier loses the bomb. If a bomb-carrying ship takes the lead, then the previous leader immediately gets the bomb and cannot tag anyone for 2 seconds. After the fuses go on the bombs (After 60 seconds), the bombs will go off and the ships with the bombs are eliminated. Once 3 ships remain, one bomb is taken away, leaving one bomb to destroy one ship. Once 2 ships are left, the race leader loses his/her's immunity to getting bombs and it is an all-out battle to avoiding getting the last bomb. The winner is the last man standing. Weapons are off, and you have infinite ship integrity.

    Any comments?

    If you read all of this, you get a cookie.
    Last edited by Mike458; 3rd December 2013 at 02:33 AM.

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    I've updated my Zombie ship concept. It now looks sharper, more deadly, with the nose wings being attached by brackets as well as the rear wings. I also changed the body shape a little bit, and I envision it having a raised section running down the middle, similar to Solaris, but less tall. Side views are WIP.

    zombie_ship_mkII.jpg

    There are air intakes at the corners of the main hull, at the start of the detached rear wings, and one at the very nose of the ship. The airbrakes are at the back of the rear wings. It almost has a Logos/Solaris mixture style with the unique sharpness that makes it the Zombie ship. I think I'm going to tag it the Reaper for now, so say hello to the Reaper MkII!

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    Awesome. Looks more like a drag ship now! I can see some of the LOGOS and Solaris mixture styles, but it mainly looks like a drag ship to me. Any ideas on color schemes?

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    I'm thinking some metallic colors, maybe part silver, and part a sort of silver-bronze mix, with some color highlights (red, black, maybe green?). I'll work on that later. As for your ideas, Survival sounds extremely violent, I could see lots of wild collisions there! Not sure exactly how that one would work, but this Time Bomb idea does interest me, seems like a very frantic, adrenaline-filled mode.

    I do think the Simulation Damage is overkill, it would kind of make it a crapshoot race, with the winners sustaining the least severe damage. I never was a fan of that Fusion "damage-makes-your-ship-stats-worse" thing, I think it's geared for more combat oriented races (which is why it was in Fusion )

    The Time Bomb idea is interesting though. My suggestions would be to start the player with the bomb (maybe it could be a sort of super-magnet, easily transferable between ships, but still deadly), and have a 30 second timer before detonation. All 8 ships would be on track for the start of the race, and be programmed to stay in somewhat of a pack formation (relatively close together). Contact passes the bomb, and when it detonates, it eliminates the ship it was on, and a new bomb attaches to the ship at the rear of the pack. This way, if you could outrun the pack, you would be rewarded by eliminating the bomb threat (although the mode would have to be programmed so this is very hard to do.) What are your thoughts on these ideas?

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    I like your ideas! The player and one other ship would be starting with the bomb, and the other ships would not. I like that. And yes, Survival is intended to cause some really big crashes.

    I'll get back to you tomorrow on that.

    P.S. Good color scheme choices!

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    Okay, so you still want to have the two simultaneous bombs. Maybe we could have one bomb go off after 30 seconds, and the other after 60, but you don't know which bomb is which, so you just have to try to get rid of it if you have it. That would be unpredictable and exciting. I think Survival might be too violent, especially for an amateur racing league, they wouldn't want to be destroying ships constantly (big $$$ loss there). I guess that would apply to the Time Bomb mode too.... hmmm, maybe we could just make the bomb an EMP Magnet, so if it attaches to your ship and detonates, it just kills your thruster and AG device, leaving you stationary on the track surface (but still 'eliminated' as far as gameplay goes). That would make a little more sense with the storyline and the amateur league, and I don't think it would take too much away from the mode itself.

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    I think that those are very good ideas for Time Bomb. However, for Survival, how can we "destroy" the ship while not actually destroying it? It is a good game mode, but that's the one problem that I didn't take into consideration when I made this game mode. I think that the ship would just immediately shut down and fly through the air before landing again after a heavy collision. Or, we can have the pilot eject out of the ship as the ship is being hit.

    Any thoughts on that?

    EDIT: Scoring system for Survival complete:

    For every lap completed: 1000 points
    For every ship dodged: 500 points
    Near Miss bonus: 500 points
    3 Near Miss Chain: 2000 points
    5 Near Miss Chain: 4000 points
    10 Near Miss Chain: 10000 points and a X2 Multiplier for 60 seconds

    Chain bonuses must be consecutive ship near misses, each one performed within 3 seconds of each other. If you fail to near-miss a ship, then your chain ends instantly.

    Completing a perfect lap: 1250 points
    Barrel Roll: 100 points per barrel roll
    Failed Barrel Roll: -50 points
    Scraping a ship: -100 points

    Comments on this?
    Last edited by Mike458; 3rd December 2013 at 07:58 PM.

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    Hey guys, I just got back from my exams and am just flying over the posts so plz don't kill me if I miss some details.

    For the Zombie ship: Nice design, I like it. Would be interesting to see it with colors, and do you think you can do a side-view aswell?

    For your ideas, Mike:
    Survival: Screw u This will not be a mode per se but you will have such a race in a key event in the campaign. Remember my post about how the campaign mode is constructed? Every team has certain key events which might interact with other teams. The thing is that this race setting is very unique and does not belong to a game mode. Other key events are for example escorting, sneak-missions like in Metal Gear Solid, Low-Energy Zone simulation etc. but I don't wanna spoiler too many details there. Once we get to the actual programming of those, we can experient if some of those would be worth a whole race mode, but actually I'd like them to be an exclusive key event idea, and your survival mode is actually describing one of those events pretty well

    Hot potato/Time bomb: Something that Damon [dreadofmondays] also suggested. Could be interesting, I remember I played such a mode in Destruction Derby Raw, next to "Skyscraper" [my fav. mode]. But for this it would be best to have an area rather than a race track. Seems like it all goes down to Sao Paulo

    Simulation Damage: Ummm, here I am not sure because programming such a thing would take ages, considering you want reasonable behaviour for the ships which means to give an unique behaviour for each ship if it should be done correctly and I highly doubt we would have power and ressources to program such a thing. We already considered damage-based mesh-deforming but that is also not so easy... Unity Pro is the key word, and then I am still not sure if we can work it out correctly so I'd put this idea to the backburner, at least as of now...

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