(SSGX Origins) Let's make a Wipeout game! This time for real!

[Stingerblue]

@ feisar rocket, sent pm.

@ zero3growlithe, thanks .

There's sample code for a race game on the official website. Its a Microsoft Installer, its the demo and source code. The installer however checks if either Xna 3.0 or 3.01 is installed.

http://create.msdn.com/en-US/educati...le/racing_game

[feisar rocket]

I see, thanks!

I made a new track and it's confusing untill you think about Mega-Mall.

How many tracks do we have? How much needed?

P.S. do you have a HUD yet? I can make one and, a main menu.

[zero3growlithe]

I think that 12 is enough (with reverses 24)
About HUD and Main Menu... still waiting for something nice

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, this is a big rant post- so fair warning!

OK, pit lanes:

The code for recharging already exists, the pit lane would work (if you want to use the blender items I have) by using 2 more nav nodes and some logic-i.e:

if health>25 go to node 0 (i.e. start/finish line). if health <=25 go to node 13 and 14, then node 0 (i.e. travel down the pit lane rather than go across start finish line).

I like pit lanes- it means you don't get race leaders using weapons for energy and depriving the other chasing racers weapons that spice up games. Plus pit lanes are tactical choices: do you lose time getting energy or carry on with the risk of blowing up?

XNA:

Unless there is someone (there were a few here at one point) who is fluent in C there is little point in going down the XNA route, and most decide to make a game from the ground up in openGL. I chose Blender because everything I need is in one program. I keep on about this but it will make lives easier if tracks were made in blender and tested in blender (all the stuff I make I test about 20 times, and it takes seconds to go from making to playing/testing). It allows bugs to be worked out really quickly.

And why bother with XNA anyway? This is a fan project, so why not just hook up an 360 pad to your pc and play via the blender standalone? plus, blender works on Mac, PC and Linux, so its more cross platform.

Xpand:

Quick tip! For razor sharp AI handling try servo motion with only the forward axis enabled (e.g. x or y)- I tried this with the AI example and it has the advantages of physics plus little or no sliding!

Hyperthrust:

The way it could be done would be to have a specific key mapped to enable the hyperthrust (e.g.H, set to always true) hooked up to an AND plus a motion actuator with higher speed. You would have a property 'hyperthrust' defined (say with an interger value of 100), and have a property sensor hooked up to the AND that would be NOT EQUAL to 0. On the other side of the AND, you would have a property actuator set to Hyperthrust, ADD, and -1.

So what would happen would be that you have 100 hyperthrust units. As the H key is pressed, the property sensor will say this is not equal to 0, so H is pressed, property is TRUE so the AND fires and we get extra speed but the property actuator subtracts -1 per second from the Hyperthust property until it reaches 0., and stops working.

I am on holiday and cannot mock something up so I cant test this (I'm doing this in my head), but potential bugs may come from the property sensor set to not equal (it may not register and go below 0). This may have to be set to min/max or equal. Again, this is easy and quick to change/test.

Track design:

Again, if you want to see your tracks in use, get hold of a simple player control set up (from Xpand or others), import or make your track in blender/ XNA and press P (in blender) to play and see the weaknesses of the design- its that simple! Then tweak, tweak, tweak until it works. It is unfair to think that people who make the game work can make your track work too using what we have (i.e the Bullet physics from blender). Be proactive and help! This will annoy a lot of you but I get fed up of the 20 plus pages of track ideas and few people saying 'OK, now let me test this'. YOU CANNOT EXPECT A TRACK TO WORK JUST BY IMPORTING IT INTO BLENDER OR ANY OTHER PROGRAM! It requires days of testing- ever got annoyed at the random WOHD invisible walls? Or random physics quirks? YOU make the track, YOU test it! Some tracks here are very imaginative, but are way too complicated- work within realistic boundaries and go from there. As you play, in blender you can change so much so easily- don't like a wall? press ESC, move it and press P to test! Want an animated spectator ship to fly low over the track? Easy, create movement logic and again press P to test. Bend too sharp? ESC and reshape, press P....well, you get the idea. And as you understand the tools, you can then make tracks that are more daring and crazy, but with a firm understanding of what works and what does not.

If you don't understand Blender or XNA then learn! I went from nothing to what I do now in about a month. If you want this to work, then you have to put the effort in! And when it is finished, you have a new skill too that can be used for the future.

OK, rant over.....

[feisar rocket]

HUD and Main Menu... still waiting for something nice

I'll work on one.

Aspect, I see, if I make it, I test it... and you have a point with pits and being tactical.

[tommyboy716]

But if were all using different programs to create this game how are we supposed to smash it all together. from the Start we were using Xpa. and now were all switching it up with like google sketch up and other programs. Even though this may already be resolved I don't think another programs should be introduced unless we have already used them

[Rotational_aspect]

But my point stands- no-one has got the c experience to carry this off, the only reason anything is moving is because the vast majority of working components is in Blender. Aside from having an XNA template, what else is there to show for it? Can anyone actually modify the template to make it like WO (or understand how to change it?).

Again it goes back to what is realistically possible, blender is designed to be accessible for rapid game prototyping without coding skills. Aside from one script all my stuff I have done is with clip together logic.

[zero3growlithe]

I looked on this Pashtun Wheel project (any other name, or this one ok?), and i'm going to change it completely becouse i don't like it the way it is now (complete chaos, and it's in space , and in a space ship ... OMG). I'll change design of this track, and i hope that for better.

Some images of Alphard & Pashtun Wheel (for rebuild):
https://picasaweb.google.com/zero3gr...7a1YeQlrrK0QE#

[feisar rocket]

Ya, Tommy has a point... How are we going to put this together?

[Rotational_aspect]

OK, here is a quick question for everyone reading this thread:

Who (here) has the skill to use XNA to make a decent racing game? That is, an expert in C, .Net framework programming etc?

Unless you have several competent programmers then XNA will be NO use as XNA REQUIRES a certain degree of programming skill. If you choose this way then all you will have are pretty fly-throughs of tracks and nothing else. There are other tools like Unity or Gamestudio but again, they require C or C like scripting skills.

Now, the only program which is legally free and does the things we want is Blender. As I have stated to Xpand, I use this as it does everything I need in one package. You can model, texture, play, light and tweak all under one roof. The logic blocks are easy to understand, and when you become more confident you can augment this with Python scripts (but this is not required!)

And as I make the game I want I will share what I create/discover with you to make your vision of a WO racer real. These are the advancements that i have made so far (i.e. in a couple of months) from knowing nothing of Blender:

Path finding AI
Weapons (vulcan cannon, homing missile, rapid firing missile, flame thrower, tracking cannon)
Race start logic
Player controls
Advanced player movement (e.g. physics hovering, antisotropic friction)
Crude player position indicator
Health recharge (for pit lane)
Speed pads (Xpand did these and I learned a lot from this!)

I am currently planning a UI and ship select screen, titles, custom weapons loadouts and more.

Now, in that time, I bought one book re Gameblender and registered with blenderartists to use when I get stuck (which is often).

Now, has (or is) there an XNA game being made that no-one knows about? If you look waaaayyyy back there was a standalone OpenGL F-Zero style game being made with others stating they are doing the same thing. But they havent posted here for a long time, so there goes your C programmers.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, making a little ship move in Blender takes 5 minutes to do, and then you can test your tracks as you make them!

So why the resistance to Blender? 2.56a /2.57 RC2 are easy to pick up, certainly much easier than C or .Net framework. You can do so much with it but people here always write it off!

I wrote in this post that I would share what I discover with you all- but by the time I finish my Blender game (or get a functional prototype) you would have learnt to rotate a triangle in pure programming and have 100 track designs on paper (not to mention a thread with 100 plus pages).

So I say again, with the skills that everyone has, what can you realistically achieve? When feisar rocket stated how this is going to be put together, he hit on something which I have been going on about for many weeks- is everyone just going to hope someone can program for them or are they going to actually put some graft in and make things work? When people go on about using several programs to make things, I always cringe as they are using either hopelessly outdated programs or programs totally unsuited for making useable game assets. Rhino and Sketchup are NOT useful! If you go onto websites such as Polycount that have semi professionals, absolutely no-one uses these programs as the meshes they (Rhino or Sketchup) produce are messy and impossible to optimize. At the very least look at Modo, Silo or Milkshape 3D for low cost, professional 3D creation programs. Blender itself has a great set of modeling tools, so why not use them?

I dont want to bully people, but when people complain Blender is too much hard work to learn I get angry because its no more difficult than learning 3DSMax, Maya or Lightwave. In some ways its easier! And at the end you can make an .exe and sell it/ whatever!

[zero3growlithe]

I just don't have time for programing right now, modelling takes less time so i can make it between normal days (Monday - Friday) and whole weekend. I'll take C++ "under my wing" on holidays
And i don't say that Blender is bad, or so hard that it's impossible to learn it, i just don't want to learn many programs (with higher difficulty) at once.
I wanted to learn 3DS Max but i hit my head and thought that "it's a bad idea for now, if i learned Rhino so much" (about 1,5 year of learning).
Furthermore i'm using it for other purposes too (enginering stuff, big halls), becouse it's still CAD software.

btw. Who knows XNA? I don't...

EDIT: You have right with this leak of track designs, and i have some track ideas (4 for now). I'll make them in 3D and show them, and that will be my actual work. If you want to ask what about tracks for tests, then my answer is: I'll send you those tracks in *.3ds
(without environments and textures to prevent problems with export and to save my time, that i will spend later to export them anyway)

[feisar rocket]

I am learning how to make tracks with Blender but, its an older version (2.33)Is that TOO old Aspect?

To put things together, we should be using compatible programs. Like Blender import/export some file extentions, we should work around that. I do not want to restart on an other program.

I wish there was a way to turn the camera in Blender, just like SketchUp... Then I'll be pro, but for now, I'm an amature... (Kinda hard for a kid, huh?)

P.S. Like a fool, I'm going to try to learn XNA and Blender!

[feisar rocket]

Hey Aspect, can you send the speed pad and a few more logics... I'm becoming a beast with Blender!

Zero, how about you and I learn C++ together? (still trying to type something...)

Mabey if we use Python and understand it, transfer the shell to C++? If that can work...?

I'm making a track with Blender (lines first. Then, track. After, 3D!) and, it's coming good...ish. I'm also working on a weapon pad. I just need the weapons...

Mods, sorry for making 2 posts. The PSP has typing restrictions.

[zero3growlithe]

Sure, but before this happen you should know what i'm using:
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2128
If (you're ok with it);
then (nothing is on our way);
else (i'll check python, how it look like);
then (i'll try to learn it if needed);

[Rotational_aspect]

Blender 2.33 is too old, the latest build is 2.57 RC2, which has a few bugs but is much better. All my posted .blends can only be used with this version.

I cant post .blend files as I am still on holiday, but if you go back a few pages you will find some posts of mine with attachments to get you started (some AI, race start, recharge pads etc).

And I agree, Blenders camera is annoying! I wish they used the 3DSMAX way with the viewcube.

Blender imports (and I think exports) COLLADA files which are native to Sketchup. It is just more user friendly if you do it all in Blender as you can test the track as you make it, and ensure Blenders physics engine is OK with it.

[feisar rocket]

Can you get a "top view" with 2.57 and make lines have verticies?

Well time to learn 2.57... Ahh man, I got to restart. Well, I need to stay up to date!

[Rotational_aspect]

With NUMLOCK off:

I think num pad 7 is top view, but you can experiment. Numpad 5 changes between ortho and perspective views, numpad 0 cycles camera views, and the . numpad key zooms to the active object.

Common things I missed or screwed up:

To get blender 'game mode' go to the top menu bar where it has 'blender render' and click/hold to get a drop down to change.

To get game physics, its the last tab in the properties window. Sometimes its squeezed off the end so you may have to resize the menu horizontally.

Remember the difference between EDIT and OBJECT modes! In EDIT yo can select edge, vertex and polygon modes.

And under game settings, DEBUG and PHYSICS VISUALIZATION is your best friend!

By the way, if you go further back I did dabble in getting a good player control scheme. The ones I posted are a bit old, but they are good starting points.

[feisar rocket]

I see, thanks Aspect (you must be happy. A programmer rising from the ashes!)

Zero, dark GDK.
Aspect, it works with C++ (mabey you already know soo...) GO COMPATABILITY!!...
Yeah, back to what I was saying, I can download it this Friday and start from there. I'll also be working on Blender 2.57.

Now, I just need to learn the Python Shell...

[MyNameIsBom]

hey guys I now have more time to help you guys on the project,
Remember i can't do anything on the computer... (family problems)
I can only give ideas and draw them for you guys.
Let me know if you want another track idea.

@zero wow Pashtun Wheel looks sooooooooooooooo aweeeeesoooommme!!!!

[Xpand]

PLZ ANOTHER TRACK!!!

Anyway, I don't know if I should make original ships or use the same design as the Wipeout ships?


Rotational, I've been using some of your scenes. I still have to get used to the 2.57s UI and make the ships able to take sharp turns and stay on track during jumps or drops...