PS3 NeGcon - Can it be done???

[AG-wolf]

already worlds ahead of anything I have the time/patience/resources to do lol I understand all the stuff you're saying but I no longer have the knowledge to put it to practical use. I used to be able to look at written schematics and build them physically, and vice-versa. I just dropped most of my electronics interest about like 7 years ago.

Good luck, then, since it seems like you've already got everything covered

I am a bit curious how you wired your 360 and PS3 arcade stick module boxes, though, as that's actually what I'm in the process of doing right now myself Finished the PS3 one, but it's actually got a dual-shock 2 inside of it, and I use a PS2-USB adapter to use it on my ps3. THe wired 360 box is what I'm in the middle of right now... I wish I could get things done on such a small scale like you did, but I can't be bothered to really make things so compact. The three common lines in the dual shock 2 were a pain until I figured out why I was getting quirky behavior

[RDC]

I am a bit curious how you wired your 360 and PS3 arcade stick module boxes, though, as that's actually what I'm in the process of doing right now myself Finished the PS3 one, but it's actually got a dual-shock 2 inside of it, and I use a PS2-USB adapter to use it on my ps3. THe wired 360 box is what I'm in the middle of right now... I wish I could get things done on such a small scale like you did, but I can't be bothered to really make things so compact. The three common lines in the dual shock 2 were a pain until I figured out why I was getting quirky behavior

Not really a whole lot to them, just wire them up to a connector with enough pins for both wires for every switch you're using in the Arcade Stick is all. I personally can't stand using 3rd party controllers and always use first party ones though. Ton of info on the 360 as well as the PS3 controllers at XS I've compiled too.

The only thing ya really need is a connector with enough pins so that ya have access to both lines from every button that's gonna be in the Arcade Stick, that means 8 for the Joy and 2 for each button. This way you can plug up whatever controller ya feel like as the layout of it makes not one lick of difference since ya have access to both lines from every button. If ya go wiring up the thing in the layout that the controller uses all bets are off for using it with other controller boards because they're gonna have a different layout, so ya take care of that in the module/box while ya keep both lines of every button of the Arcade Stick separate, then ya never have to worry about it and can make a controller module/box for anything ya feel like really. There would be no way at all for the 360 and PS3 ones I made to work in the same housing if I wired up the Arcade Stick connector side in one or the other controller's button layout, as the PS3 has a 3 Common line setup, while the 360 controller I used was the CG (Common Ground) one. That means a bigger connector, but in the long run it pays off as ya can make a new module/box with whatever controller ya feel like and it'll still work in yer Arcade Stick.

[JABBERJAW]

I'm out. I tried it in a wheel, that microsoft twist thing and a wired ps3 pad, but it's the same in all, even when I tried the sensitivity function of the wheel, no dice. I think the new pot might work though, if I could find one to fit the thing that is. I did rip one out of that pc controller I used, but have no idea what the k is

Wehre do you find these variable pots that will work in the negcon? sites? I thought I found one that was going to work perfectly in a wheel I had for the ps2, but it turned out to be 10k. Then found one in the raCcon, but that was 5k, but it was too small

[RDC]

Wehre do you find these variable pots that will work in the negcon? sites? I thought I found one that was going to work perfectly in a wheel I had for the ps2, but it turned out to be 10k. Then found one in the raCcon, but that was 5k, but it was too small

Never said that I did exactly, just that I have one on order to see if it will. Places like Mouser, Digikey, Newark and the like are great sources off all kinds of electronic components, provided ya can sift thru all of the different kinds and find the one that will or is most likely to work, means looking at heaps of datasheets, and knowing what at least some of it means.

I've also noticed at least 2 versions of the neGcon so far, and they use slightly different style POTs as well, so there's that issue to deal with too.

[AG-wolf]

http://www.electronics123.co.za/
Granted it's out of south africa, so probably not very local to any of us here; but I've used them on more than one occasion to order low quantities of arbitrary components for wicked cheap, and shipping was very cheap too. Their site seems a little unresponsive atm, I hope they're still up...

[Darkdrium777]

They're still up.

[JABBERJAW]

someone help me a little here. I have the negcon pot. this is a 10k not sure on the degrees. I have also found

1) 10k 240 deg

2) 10k 140 deg

3) 10k 90 deg


does the 10k stand for how long the controller starts to work (getting past the dead zone)?, and the degrees is until max turn? I don't quite get it yet. What if I had a 5k at 120 deg, would that be better or worse than the others? This is the first time I have dealt with anything analog, so I am learning on the go here.

Oh, i am ripping these things out of wheels/joysticks that I do not use anymore, and just realized that those foot pedals may have less resistance, or less of a turning radius. I'm going to check them out

[AG-wolf]

10k means ten kilo-ohms, it's the maximum resistance value of the pot. I imagine 90/140/240 should be the twist of the spindle... figure divide the 90/140/240 in half, since zero-twist on the negcon is the halfway point of its internal pot, and that's the number of degrees you are able to twist in either direction. If they are linear pots, the resistance will increase/decrease at a steady rate depending on which way it is twisted, but if they're logarithmic, the value increases and decreases on a curve. I'm sure RDC said somewhere in this post whether the twist pot is linear or logarithmic... but I guess you'd have to look for one with the same value as the left/right axis pot in the dual shock... and even then, the control stick never tilts as far as the pot is able to actually move, it's only using a percentage of the total range... blah blah blah variable after variable after variable

[JABBERJAW]

then 90 should be great, if it works. 45 degrees each direction. I'll try it tomorrow.

[RDC]

Dunno what I was thinking with changing the value to 5k, it's used as a voltage divider in there, so lowering the value isn't gonna do dink, so I have a pretty useless part on the way here now, aka back to the drawing board.

The only issue with swapping it to a lower turning radius one is you'll be able to turn the neGcon more than the POT can, and that can/will damage the POT, and in the heat of game play it's extremely likely to happen before ya know it. It'll really depends on how the thing is setup internally though, if it's still able to turn the full 240 degrees, but only 90 of it is actual Resistance, then ya should be good with that, though 90 may make it really touchy as it maxes the turn out before the POT hits it's max movement.

[AG-wolf]

not gonna work that way, unfortunately. THe NeGcon's stock pot has a very long swing, and then you set the max-travel point in-game with games that recognize its center/dead/stationary point. There might be a way around that, but it would require some crazy kind of work. I think it might be a kind of trial-and-error thing at this point, and work with one obstacle at a time lol

[RDC]

not gonna work that way, unfortunately. THe NeGcon's stock pot has a very long swing, and then you set the max-travel point in-game with games that recognize its center/dead/stationary point. There might be a way around that, but it would require some crazy kind of work. I think it might be a kind of trial-and-error thing at this point, and work with one obstacle at a time lol

What way isn't going to work? If the POT is changed with one that has a shorter rotational angle it will 'sort of' work, but ya run the risk of damaging the POT and possibly the gears in the neGcon if the new POT is setup internally to have stops at the 90 degree marks, if it can travel the full 300 degrees, but the 10k is kept in the 90 degree range from center (5k to each side) then it will work without causing any damage. The POTs used on the controller's sticks have a much larger rotational angle than where the Resistive part of the element is, they work on a 45 degree angle, but can turn much further than that, the sticks design just doesn't let them and the 10k is kept in that 45 degree area.

Since the PS3 doesn't support the controller there is no way to set the dead zone and max range of the twisting in game, so that's not even an option, nor is it an option with a POT as that would take a variable, variable resistor.

About the only real way to go about it is to leave the POT that's in there, then use a PIC and DAC to take that Analog signal, convert it to digital so ya can do whatever ya need to with it, adjust the dead zone and set the max range, then go back to Analog via the DAC. That's a mess, and would require a good deal of coding to get done up, but it's doable and would give ya control over the twisting setting the same as an in game option would, but if you're going to go to that extent ya may as well code up the thing to just recognize the entire controller and just make up an adapter to interface with a PS3 controller.

As it is right now it takes around 200 degrees of rotation from a full left turn to a full right one with the 10k POT in there, and the only way to lower that staying in the hardware realm is to change the gearing or use a POT with a different rotational angle, but both methods cause the problem of being able to twist the neGcon further than the POT can, so while it's an option, it's just not the best one.

[JABBERJAW]

My 90 degree pot 10k Turns the same amount as the negcon (the bar spin). So does this mean max turn is at 90, and the rest is nothing. This wouldn't damage the pot either.

I think this is going to take alot of testing, and damaging alot of crap

It's worth the effort if it works


Just thinking here:

1) max turn (if labeled) = max turn of potentiometer, even if the bar keeps spinning further

2) nuber of K = How quickly it starts to turn

Would this make sense?

[RDC]

You'll have to put the meter on them and see exactly how they work, there's just a lot of different tapers and layouts, but checking it with a meter will let ya know how it's really working for sure.

Every other POT in the neGcon is a Log POT, even though the things are marked with a 'B' which is for Linear, so always check it, then check it again, and write down what it is and how it works versus the original 10k POT.

[JABBERJAW]

Have you tried the other pots in the negcon? I know they swing the same distance, but the max turn could be different, and the labeling (one of the numbers) on them is different as well, between the button,trigger, and twist. I think the trigger travels the least distance. It is possible here that the button pots might reach max in considerably less distance. I'll have to try this too. I didn't get to try it today. I have a HUGE mess to clean up right now, but am excited (until it fails) to try it. The number on the pot thing I got from the insides of the black negcon. I don't think these numbers were even written on the american one. Otherwise, I wouldn't have ever thought of trying it.

[AG-wolf]

it would be a lot easier for a couple people at studio liverpool to just sit and make a patch for WOHD that can recognize a NeGcon with a USB adapter. lol

[RDC]

Have you tried the other pots in the negcon? I know they swing the same distance, but the max turn could be different, and the labeling (one of the numbers) on them is different as well, between the button,trigger, and twist. I think the trigger travels the least distance. It is possible here that the button pots might reach max in considerably less distance. I'll have to try this too. I didn't get to try it today. I have a HUGE mess to clean up right now, but am excited (until it fails) to try it. The number on the pot thing I got from the insides of the black negcon. I don't think these numbers were even written on the american one. Otherwise, I wouldn't have ever thought of trying it.

The POTs on the Trigger and I/II buttons are Logarithmic, they have all 10k 'bunched up' close to one end of the POT, so it only has to turn a very short distance, and they don't start from the center point. The Twist POT is Linear, which means the 10k is spread over the entire travel of the POT and it's used as a voltage divider, so it sits at the mid point and goes + or - depending on which way it's turned. If you put a Log POT in place on a Linear one in this case (voltage divider) all you'll accomplish is making it turn in one direction on it's own since all of the Resistance is 'lopsided' in a Log POT, you'd have to twist it 9/10 of the way in one direction before it would center.

[JABBERJAW]

If you could set them up grinding opposite each other it would work then? If you got it to start at 0? out of my capability though.

[JABBERJAW]

sorry for double post, but possible breakthrough


I tried the 10k 90 degree angle. I just turned the pot with my hand, and it seems there is almost no dead zone, and the max turn to either side is 45 degrees. This would mean the 90 degree angle is what this means, 45 to both sides. Also, the swing radius is the same as a regular negcon pot, and when turning past the 45 degree mark, it just stayed at max. This is also very good. I'm not sure where I got that pot out of. dohh!! wait, it might have been from a thrustmaster joystick, the twist handle one maybe

I then tried a 50k and there was a huge dead zone, but when it turned it was smooth.

I then tried a 1 meg from a paddle from the atari 2600. It worked, but there was a large dead zone

I then tried the button pot from the negcon, and it does turn left and right. It seemed there was a dead zone, but it was smaller than the original negcon pot, not sure though, need to test further tonight. It also may be the longer one. the trigger has a smaller amount to turn before it is full.

I still have the raccon one to test, but it does not swing far, and I am not sure what the k is on that

I still have to try a different 5k one I found in another controller. This one is small though

I still have to try a 5k larger one I found from radio shack

there are some others as well, but they do not seem promising

I am hopefully going to test more tonight

[RDC]

The last thing I tried was cutting the trace in the POT at dead center, setting up a 22k voltage divider and letting the POT then drop/raise it, that worked pretty good, maxed the turns at 45 and 45, but there's just about no dead zone at all and controlling the thing is a nightmare with it like that, works best with a 20k divider, but ya have to go close to 90 to get a full turn out of it, but the dead zone is better and ya don't go lurching back to the left after making a right.

Good luck with trying out more POTs, I'm completely abandoning that whole idea until I can get with a coder to do this up the right way with a PIC/DAC setup so it has control over the max range as well as dead zone, this POT mess just isn't cutting it and IMHO isn't ever going too. The PIC/DAC will pretty much give control over the thing like the older in game menus did, just a ton more work to get that setup properly, but it'll pay off in the long run.