PS3 NeGcon - Can it be done???

[Sausehuhn]

Ehehehe. I know that feeling

[element42]

I've just seen this and I don't know why I didn't think of it before. Surely we could use an arduino to convert the Negcon output into something the PS3 could use?
An arduino is a great little microcontroller that you can program to do virtually anything assuming you have the electronics knowledge to build the appropriate circuit - which I don't, really!

I guess it would be easier to convert to a PS2/PS1 controller output and wire it in to a PS2 -> PS3 usb converter dongle. Some interesting info here... will have to work on this.

[IH8YOU]

You had to do that.... Pandoras box is open.

Thanks for the info - I will put this into consideration.

Approach thus-far has been to hybrid both controllers, as I do lack the programming, micro-controller / PIC expertise required for that. (though with guidance I'm able to do it, as I have done so before)

Oh yes - for everyone - the project is not dead - been busy month - serious family related things dealing with. Will resume once life returns to "normal".

[RDC]

Hope the OP doesn't mind, seems like the place to ask this instead of starting up a new thread.

How would you guys want it setup versus the PS3 controller? because there are going to be some limitations..

In WipEout HD for example, the steering and pitch is controlled by the left stick, and this can't be duplicated with the neGcon, it lacks the second Axis (up/down) that a Stick has and adding in buttons to duplicate it isn't really a serious option as that isn't Analog and ya loose the precision, it's doable, but not how I'd prefer to go about it. Also using the Tilt function for that is right out as twisting the neGcon will play havoc with the Accelerometer (if kept internal) or be useless if the board is left out of the neGcon, so either way that's no option.


Since the PS3 controller has 17 buttons and 4 axis in total versus the neGcon's 11 button and 1 Axis, some things are going to have to either go or be dealt with in some fashion to make it even half usable for some games and almost sure to cripple it for others. Adding in the Select and PS buttons are not a big deal at all, neither is getting around the common ground setup of the neGcon versus the 3 common line setup of the PS3 controller, nor is adding any additional buttons to make up for the neGcon's lack thereof, but Axis are another thing, as are maintaining the majority of the PS3 controller buttons Analog feature.

Stripping the neGcon and 'piggy backing' it onto a PS3 controller isn't the real issue, it's getting it setup to actually be usable in a game that is the PITA since it's really a half controller half steering wheel, or 1/3 of what a normal PS3 controller is capable of, and since the game doesn't know you're using the neGcon it can't reconfigure itself for using it properly, like it can on the PS1 where in game ya have control over it's settings, as far as the PS3 is concerned you're using a PS3 controller.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...con/neGcon.jpg

..this is just the Twist and I/II buttons wired up to the Left Stick (left/right) and R1/R2 for a quickie test in MotoGP '08 (demo, and yes, yes I know it's not WipEout, apologies for that, just fired it up for a test is all ). There's no LED lit up on the controller either because all of them have been removed.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...=neGcon022.flv


I plan to mess around slowly on this project, tinker on it from time to time as I have another project in the works that's taking up my real play/hack time, and I may take this in a different direction once I get some time to really spend on it, I'll have to wait and see on that one.

Also, just so anyone that's interested knows, there are at present 10 versions of known wireless PS3 controllers (none really like any PS controller layout before it) and any of them can be used for something like this. The major version changes are different from each other with each having it's advantage/disadvantage to using it, which makes it an even bigger mess, so if ya have any serious aspirations about doing this be prepared to do some research and a lot of figuring some things out, like the newer 4 leg 'Digital POTs', which aren't anything more than Hall Effect sensors and Op-Amps, almost identical to Dreamcast controllers, and it all boils down to the exact same thing in the end as what the Potentiometer did in there once ya figure it all out. The controller used in the above pic/vid is one of the newer DS3 versions, MSU_3.5X 1.14, that has the newer Digital POTs.

Getting the PS3 controller stuffed into the neGcon is pretty much right out as well, not without really hacking down and rebuilding the PS3 controller, I could probably get it stuffed in there (I managed to get a wired 360 controller into a PS3 shell, a few times ) but even then that's only half of the battle as ya still have the battery to deal with, so keeping it external is really the best way to go.

I agree that using some type of PIC/MCU/AVR would be the best way to go, but even then it would have to either be connected to some PS3 controller to work, unless the PS3 controller protocols are out there, and even then it'll have to be modeled after one controller or another. Doing it that way the neGcon can be kept 100% intact plus you'd have carte blanche over what did what and could put back in the sensitivity and dead zone options (on the control box) that the game lacks because it's going on the fact that a PS3 controller is being used, but as IH8YOU touched on, that takes some serious programming/coding skillz to pull off, where as a hardware hack isn't that difficult, as the crappy vid above already shows, but even it lacks in some places for certain things, so both ways are viable options with their own advantages/disadvantages.

[RDC]

Here's a short WipEout vid to make up for the MotoGP one.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...=neGcon023.flv

[JABBERJAW]

I thik the main thing is getting the twist to work correctly, at 90 degrees maximum. IF this works, there are enough options for the rest. dpad can control pitch and barrel rolls. I would take ALL out of the negcon, and put in pushbuttons (small), all coming out in wire fashion to the other controller (soldered to board), then that controller is plugged in as usual. This way, no lag, but it will be a frankenstein controller.

[Darkdrium777]

About the axis missing for pitch: as you control the direction or steering of the ship with the twist, your left hand rests free on the D-Pad, and therefore can control pitch using the D-Pad itself (The up and down arrows), so that is not a problem. In this way it will in fact work just like it used to back in the day.

As for the missing trigger buttons, you have chat and look back. Chat is unimportant, as it simply doesn't work, so it can be left out. Look back, well let's think about it. We know that since version 1.30 the select button can no longer be binded (and it's not even on the negcon anyways), and all the other controls are essential (D-Pad left and right, X, O, [], airbrakes, start). So what is left? The triangle button. Triangle is change camera, but this can be set prior in the game options and is no longer needed during gameplay. So if we set look back on the negcon to be one of the buttons on the right part (the equivalent of triangle button), then we have all the controls needed mapped onto the pad. As you said, motion is right out, so again we don't need to think about it.

This results in a controller configuration like this:


While I was shooping Al posted, D-Pad can take care of barrel rolls as well. We can also have along the wire somewhere, if we put in a wire, a button for the PS button, and one for select as well, a lot like earphones with volume control, but it will be buttons instead of a knob. Or directly on the controller somewhere if you feel like drilling a hole in the precious shell (Which I would not do, as negCons are limited in numbers, and if you ever feel like putting the original controller back together well...)

[JABBERJAW]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-SideWi...QQcmdZViewItem

this pos controller could be the answer

thrustmaster dual strike controller

I just made the twist work !!! After I connected the three analog wires to the analog wires of the twist mechanism in the dual strike controller. It hit all of the angles without any choppiness. it did take a full turn to hit all the angles though, but this is a very good start. The controller itself is a PC controller, but all 8 buttons work for wipeout HD, so I will need to modify the negcon somewhat with holes, but that is ok. The buttons will need to be soldered to the board as well, since the buttons on that **** controller are switches directly on the board, and it will be a close call if they will fit into the negcon. the dpad on this controller is ASS, so I need to figure something out wtih that as well.

If you take apart a negcon, DO NOT REMOVE the twist gears. It %#%s up the entire thing, and even when put back together made a mess.

I am going to try and hook up to the wheel I had to see if that turns a little faster. Then I will try the wired ps3 controller again, not that the new negcon twisting mechanism is working fine.

[RDC]

I've had this one apart more than a few times already, no issues at all with it if ya put it back together the right way, the gears have a key, just line them up and it's fine.


Thanks for the replies guys, I'm honestly not a WipEout gamer (only have the demo to test it with) but a good controller hack I just can't pass up, which is why I'm tinkering with this thing.

I don't plan to drill into the shell any and stuffing it full of Tact switches isn't really my thing either. I've removed all of the components from the boards in the neGcon, minus the essentials, and am using the actual board that's in it for the button contacts and such. I did the same for the PS360 controller and others that I've done in the past, this keeps the controller feeling exactly like an original does, instead of it 'clicking' every time ya press a button or having to go thru the pain of making up custom ones. Every button on the PS3 controller is Analog anyway, so the ones in the neGcon that use the POTs are really no different at all and work just fine.

I've figured out how to get the Twist to actually have a few different sensitivity settings, just need to test it out more and get the values nailed down there, but making it so it maxes out at 90 will be pretty easy. One could just change the value of the POT in there from 10k to something around 5k or so and that would do the same thing, but I'm after having a few at least without having to go thru that mess if one isn't working out.

Adding any missing buttons is doable as they can stay on the box that will hold the PS3 controller along with the Twist sensitivity switches, so it's all good so far.

[JABBERJAW]

there isn't a way to change the sensitivity easily, is there? how did you do it?

ACTUALLY, the sensitivity somewhere between 45-60 would probably be better. I said 90 as an abosolute maximum turn, otherwise, it's not fast enough for wipeout