I know Wip3out is good but...

I have heard many different opinions on the net about which is better: XL or 3? I saw XL for 5 bucks and I figured...what the heck? why not get it..so I ordered it and it is coming soon..But I figured its the closest I might get to being able to play tracks such as those on SE so... But which in you all's opinions is better? Wipeout XL: 2079, or Wip3out? I already ordered it regardless...but I just wanna know if its gonna be fun as W3 is? One major thing: Does it have those wonderful and splendid prototype tracks I love so very very much?

-pirhana69...just kidding....*59

(though for your info i do have a screenname called tromb0ner69...just for your knowledge, cuz i heard someone mention it in another post.) :wink:

i bet this question has been asked enough over the history of this page to fill an entire bulletin board folder :wink:

anyway since i cant remember answering one of these, i think xl is darker but 3's ships are faster overall due to the hyperthrust as opposed to the random super turbo power up. xl is a much cooler looking game and has much better music and atmosphere than xl, but i think the ship design is better in 3. if 3 had been 3se from the beginning xl would be no conest, however.

wipeout XL is much better than 3.
wipeout 3 se is pretty close to XL though.
Wipeout XL has more replay value for some reason.. if i ever want to play 10 mins of wipeout i usually stick XL into the ps2 and play the piranha challenge.. takes about 10mins to finish but it's very fun, - the tracks, the amosphere, the music, the soundfx... the whole package is just so well put together. It's perfection.
After finishing wo3:se, i haven't touched it.. it was very fun while it lasted though, and it took me around 20 hours (maybe more) to complete.

I prefer XL, but WO3 is a better game. Why, you ask? Depth... there's more there. It's a little faster, controls a little better, it's more challenging, and the turbo adds a lot. (I used to prefer the boost powerup in the previous games, but I'm slowly being converted to appreciate the strategy and skill involved with turbo)

That said, XL's design is sooo much better (opinion, of course). It's much more colorful and alive feeling, the music feels faster and more aggressive, as do the sound effects. The announcer's voice is just amazingly cool. The weapons in XL are a lot more fun to use. The plasma bolt takes much more skill, The rockets and missles look meaner, and the quake... well, the first time you use a quake in XL, after you're done laughing hysterically at the poor losers unfortunate enough to be in front, :) you'll wonder why they neutered it in WO3.

Basically, you can't go wrong with XL. If I want to try to improve my skills, I'll play WO3, but if I just want to have fun and be aggressive, I'll put in XL every time.

WO3 is the thinking man's WO, and of course it's got the time tables at this site. :)

WO2097 is crazier at times. :) Talon's Reach is bloody fast in Phantom if you're used to WO3, GDE is a classic of course, and Spilskinanke is much better than Manor Top.

That said, there are a few sucky tracks in 2097 as well. Odessa Keys has you scraping and bouncing all the way (think bad landing from the Mega Mall tunnel jump... 15 times) which is really no fun at all, and Vostok Island is the second worst track in Wipeout history. Of course, WO3 has its sucky tracks as well, notably Mega Mall and Stanza Inter.

As for the crazy part: turbo off hills to skip whole sections of track. Best done at the first hill at Odessa Keys. :)

The challenge setup is a 'female dog' because it has you racing tracks at speeds you haven't seen them at yet, in a row. Flub your final track and it's back to the main menu and you gotta do them over all 8 again. Expect this to happen a lot in Challenge 2 at Spilskinanke. :D

The HUD is actually useful!

The voice tells you what weapon is going to be used at you, not what you pick up. Not needed anyway, with the gigantic neon colored icons in 2097.

Autopilot lasts much shorter, and has that annoying behaviour of disengaging when the ship is horizontal, without any predefined cutoff zones on the track like in WO3. This means it will disengage right in the middle of an S curve, or right in front of that hairpin on Odessa Keys, resulting in a 100% guaranteed crash. Use the weapon drop button, it's almost always better than letting it disengage on its own.

The overall track quality is better IMO. In WO3 most tracks have 1 difficult spot and are dead easy otherwise.

Races are much more crowded, but individual enemy ships are unimportant. In Phantom there are 15 ships on the track, but they don't really pose much of a threat (they never manage to hit you with rockets. Ever. Etc.) and the challenge lies in not crashing and flying fast enough to get 1st place by the end of the race, not actually fighting for position.

WO2097 is more 'arcadey', WO3 is more realistic. The weapons in 2097 are way flashier (plasma bolt, for one), more diverse (thunder bomb) but less balanced (quake pwnz yoo) and it's still got the annoying electrobolt that makes your ship shake. There's a track in 2097 that actually moves up and down in places. :)

Quake surfing! (quake doesn't speed up with increasing speed classes, so in phantom it goes exactly as fast as your own ship)

There are only 4 ships (five if you count the hidden overpowered Piranha) and only 2 of them are any good. The FEISAR and Qirex are pointless.

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

That said, there are a few sucky tracks in 2097 as well. Odessa Keys has you scraping and bouncing all the way (think bad landing from the Mega Mall tunnel jump... 15 times) which is really no fun at all, and Vostok Island is the second worst track in Wipeout history.

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...But Odessa Keys has the fat cat! :) That's the track that moves up and down, as well. (The suspended parts) Took me 2 years to notice that. I love Odessa Keys, though you're right about the landing into the tunnel. Spilkinanke does indeed rule. I may be the only one here who loves those blind, dark tunnels. When you hit the zone, you start to feel you're way through. The only track in XL/2097 I don't like is Vostok Island, though the red tunnel is fun.

XL's tracks have so much more variety...

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

Autopilot lasts much shorter, and has that annoying behaviour of disengaging when the ship is horizontal, without any predefined cutoff zones on the track like in WO3. This means it will disengage right in the middle of an S curve, or right in front of that hairpin on Odessa Keys, resulting in a 100% guaranteed crash. Use the weapon drop button, it's almost always better than letting it disengage on its own.

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Better yet, dump it when you get it. You don't need it.

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

The weapons in 2097 are way flashier (plasma bolt, for one), more diverse (thunder bomb) but less balanced (quake pwnz yoo) and it's still got the annoying electrobolt that makes your ship shake.

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But none of that cloak/shield/cloak/shield nonsense that prevents you from doing some damage. I hate that. Cloak is sooo useless.

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

Quake surfing! (quake doesn't speed up with increasing speed classes, so in phantom it goes exactly as fast as your own ship)

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Try getting a boost immediately after releasing a quake. :o

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

There are only 4 ships (five if you count the hidden overpowered Piranha) and only 2 of them are any good. The FEISAR and Qirex are pointless.

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...Don't forget the animal ships... :roll:

POINTLESS?!?

Qirex Rox! It _ownz_ Vector and Venom, and a good pilot can easily take it all the way to Phantom on Talons Reach...
I'm officially not talking to you anymore.

:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Task

POINTLESS?!?

Qirex Rox! It _ownz_ Vector and Venom, and a good pilot can easily take it all the way to Phantom on Talons Reach...

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Hehe, just beat Challenge 2 with it, thanks to me exploiting a b... eh, using nose-up and turbo boost at the right places on the track. (turning Sagarmatha into an oval course, anyone?)

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Originally Posted by Amish

But none of that cloak/shield/cloak/shield nonsense that prevents you from doing some damage. I hate that. Cloak is sooo useless.

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It's actually good in the last challenges where you don't want to take damage because of no pit lane, and I've counted my blessings many times when I plowed with shields on through a batch of mines at 07.29% shield energy trying to keep that flatiron on the track until the next energy drain... but in normal play it's indeed useless. The whole hyperthrust/pitlane thing is a massive design flaw IMO.

You think cloak/shield is annoying? How about the endless mines/shield/mines/shield in WO1 (or worse: shield/shield/shield/... I've once spent a lap and a half on Firestar shielded 'thanks' to 9 shields in a row)... At least in WO3 you can pick up exclusively offensive weapon pads (the red ones)... except you don't get energy drains this way, and still get stuck with useless mines 1/6th of the time. (grrr)

The most frustrating thing is not getting any shields at all in 2097 for an entire race (good!) and then picking up one when you're in 2nd place at the last weapon grid before the finish line...

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Originally Posted by Brother Laz

The whole hyperthrust/pitlane thing is a massive design flaw IMO.

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No.
Well, you can have your opinions. :-?

PRACTICE LEADS TO PERFECTION !

I can understand why you say that Brother Laz, boost does take away from the classic simplicity of the wipeout controls, but I`ve come to love the boost after doubting it at first.

2097 and zone mode are slightly ahead of wipeout 3 on the speed-thrills, and 2097 may have better tracks, but hyperthrust gives wipeout 3 a whole new level of strategy and possibility, which makes it a deeper and longer lasting game than the others. :)

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ive stated my opinion on this one before, but since it's now buried in time:
i think that the ability to use hyperthrust anywhere in the game and for a duration you can control combines with the limitation on total amount of hyperthrust available to make not only the strategy, but also the tactics of WO3 more complex and satisfying than the other games. it is probably that very complexity that some people dislike. perhaps they like a more basic game that they can begin to play right away and work on truly perfecting the control of a small set of variables; to play in a purely spontaneous way without planning a race as though one were a general officer of military forces. however, i find that in WO3, you have to do your generalling in a somewhat spontaneous way during the actual race, since things do not always cooperate with the Plan. but at the same time, the hyperthrust tactics and the ability to recharge the shields allow you to save an effort that would otherwise be doomed by one tiny mistake. since every opponent in direct live competition or on the tables, with the notable exception of Al Sartwell, is imperfect, one can often recover and race to victory!

[note: victory is most often defined as a new personal best racetime
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Originally Posted by Lance

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ive stated my opinion on this one before, but since it's now buried in time:
i think that the ability to use hyperthrust anywhere in the game and for a duration you can control combines with the limitation on total amount of hyperthrust available to make not only the strategy, but also the tactics of WO3 more complex and satisfying than the other games.

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Gulp! :)

Actually, I do like hyperthrust. But I don't like how the drawback for using it is exactly the same as the bonus you gain from it. You gain speed and time by using it, but you lose speed and time by pitting, and the penalty is smaller than the bonus. This is why you end up pitting every lap. There's gotta be something wrong when the best time involves going into the pitlane 4 times in a race and only use the proper road once.

The idea of hyper is that you put yourself at more risk by using it than by not using it, but go faster. But the 25% is more than enough to survive the lap, and afterwards you just pit and refill most or all of it again.

I'd like it if there was no pit lane and no energy drain, and all ships had more shield energy to compensate. And also no 25% limit, but 5% or something like that. It would be the exact same without aleatory energy drains and with some actual danger involved, and it would make much more sense from a realism point of view than just taking the repair road off to the side every lap.

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i find that the only time it pays to do it on every lap is in vector class. above that class, it slows you down to do it every lap. particularly on phantom and rapier, it is better to hold as much shield energy as you can, and convert it to hyperthrust only in little dabs throughout the race, only using the last of it on the last lap. i tend to go into the pit either once per race or not at all in anything but vector [barring wall-crashes or rockets up the wazoo]
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No prototype tracks in XL sadly, but you'll love it, don't worry!

Laz - Vostok Island? How could you? My favourite track!!! :)

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Originally Posted by jmoid

Laz - Vostok Island? How could you? My favourite track!!! :)

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Maybe if I had backup wheels under my craft I'd like the constant bottoming out and hitting the ground... but then again, I'd still hit the invisible ceiling at the 'Altima curve' nine times out of ten unless I push down so hard that my turning radius increases and *wham*.

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Originally Posted by lance

i find that the only time it pays to do it on every lap is in vector class. above that class, it slows you down to do it every lap.

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Well good luck trying to complete a race using 20% energy per lap... two scrapes in LS103 tunnels is already 15%. Also I find that hyperthrust doesn't do anything noticeable unless you use at least 6-7% of it at once.

Not to mention the tracks where the pit lane is easier to enter than the actual track... (Mega Mall, Odessa Keys and *TERMINAL* anyone?)

i usually tap the hyperthrust, and keep the speed from this tap up. this way every time i tap i gain speed from the last time. ive never payed attention to the bar enough to know how much % im using, but usually by the 4th lap in porto kora rapier im almost out.

as for pitting, i only pit in vector or venom or when i know i can get away with it by thrusting through. if you do it properly youll maintain the hyperthrust from when you came in as the pit will regnerate it, and you will get the speed benefit of a boost to the finish line.

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my senses are too slow for me to have enough time to look at the shield bar during a race.

megamall and terminal are exceptions to the general rule i go by. but Odessa Keys is in a game that doesn't allow partial usage of hyperthrust, so pit strategy is not involved in the way it is in WO3

as to using an even split of one 'charge' of hyperthrust for each lap: the percentage split per lap depends on the circumstances that occur in the race. certainly i use a greater percentage in the first lap than in the others. if i were more skilled, then i might use more boost and consequently require more pitting, but would be rewarded by a higher average speed; but at my current level of skill, i can't drive the same way at phantom and rapier classes as i do at vector and venom
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*states opinion a year later*

i know i've said thsi before, but my fav is xl/2067 ad the n64 one, it took me ages to lern how to play both of them and get good at the races, however wip3out i managed to complete most of the tracks the first time i played it (although if i tired now i probabyl wouldn't be able to go in a straight line..), i guess that could be put down to thr controls but i always remembered it as being easy, and with wipeout fushion i was disapointed, it was more like wip3out than the other 2, i really prefer the seeing the weapons in teh top than whats being annoced, and i liek the xl/20097 voice, cuz u hear missile, and u know u've been hit unless tehrs an incredbly tight corner or someone to over take or fall behind...and about the rockets never hitting u, they do on my comp! and that stupid electro sparky thing whatever it is does me nut in when i get hit by it!

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yeah, the electrobolt not only slows the ship radically, it also reduces the ship's reaction to the controls. i hate that thing. i can be way ahead of ship number 2 and around the corner from it and stiLL get hit by an electrobolt the thing seems to be able to track you instead of traveling merely a straight line of sight. pfft. there goes your racetime
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That may have to do with the fact that it is supposed to home in. ;)

Vs enemies, electrobolt is actually better than missile. :)

I like it how the electrobolt slows you down as well in 2097; in WO1 it does something different for you and the enemies, and also, I'd rather be slowed down somewhat than suddenly start to shake at full speed *cue pinball machine sound of Daniel Chang bouncing off nearby walls three times before flying off the track at the next hill*

Also on phantom class missiles doesnt always get their targets, ships usually outspeed missiles, fun to see them crashing in a corner or running out of steam, electrobolt catches up to enemies faster.

hrmm, i have to unlock challenge 2 now, i remmeber doing it before, but i will do it and complete it before i start bit..wait those 2 tracks are stupidly impossible! specailly with the gamepad i got for the pc! and i'm sure the game ignores the slow down program i use for those tracks....mind u i only tried each one once...

(i know i've done it before, as i got the extra ship thingy without cheating! except for the animal ships of course)