I'm so sick of getting hit with so many weapons online these days that I'm honestly considering not playing online anymore. just wanted to see what your take was on it.
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I'm so sick of getting hit with so many weapons online these days that I'm honestly considering not playing online anymore. just wanted to see what your take was on it.
Agree with you totally. Especially 1v1's. When it's just you and a randomer, and you have a clear 3 sec lead that you fought hard to get with lines, not weapons, then he just fires a rocket at you and flies past, well, that's just annoying.
Especially when he flies out of sight and you just happen to pick up a missile that's out of range. Story of my life.
I voted against weapons. Not because I want them removed from the game (though I wouldn't object to that), but because they're just stupidly overpowered in HD Fury in particular (Pure and Pulse also have overpowered weapons, but not so bad). The speed loss is just too much IMO.
I agree as well.
Normaly I fly Piranha. It has well-known less thrust. A few mines/bombs - I'm the last one immediately and if I pass someone I'll be hit by some missile or such crap and can't get away from last place.
When I host a race without weapons, after a few tracks most of the contenders were gone. :(
Weapons are for sissies, imo. :g
Mines, Bomb and Quake equals scraping, pricking and hair-tearing.
In Wip3out, I play weps off only, because you still have the possibility to do a hyperthrust, but in HD I prefer "green races" due to the Turbo.
This is SO true. I turned weps off for a full Rapier room, 5 left after the first race (did it suddenly... :P ) and 2 messaged me, 1 saying "F*** you noob", and the other politely asking for weps to be turned on. The latter was Azurooth :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Rennfisch
Somebody called you a noob for turning the weapons off?! :lol
Hey, imagine an eliminator with weapons off...:D
That would make a great WOZ-Trophy: Win an eliminator just by ramming your opponents to death, slam ´em into walls and push them off the track, if possible. :g
Sweet fantasy...
ROFL! Everyone wants to pilot a Triakis then! ;)
I know right? :P I lol'ed quite a bit at that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmadSmartAlex
Off course !! How can someone deprive real players from their quake and bomb's skills ? :bombQuote:
Originally Posted by MrSmadSmartAlex
;)
I love weapons, especially on eliminator. :lol
It's impossible, you dont get points for ram kill.Quote:
That would make a great WOZ-Trophy: Win an eliminator just by ramming your opponents to death, slam ´em into walls and push them off the track, if possible.
Sweet fantasy...
I hate bombs and mines, but ofcourse, always try to get in front all means necessary ;)
You know that a few well placed bombs or mines is a great equalizer for players that insist on ramming the hell out of you off the line. And a peacefully "Quake" is a good way to clear the road ahead for the win. :nod
I think weapons are a part of WipEout, but I also think the actual racing gameplay is above and beyond that of the casual weapons-on races. It's hard to say WipEout would be better if it didn't have weapons, but at the same time, there's no mode online that really encourages people to race the best.
I would like a new "pure race" mode that capitalises primarily on a player's racing skills only; but it would probably require some new elements to make it more fun and competitively worthwhile than speedlap, including some energy-related restrictions, but nothing as bad as with weapons-off races.
People have said WipEout has good potential as an eSports game in the past, and this is what it's missing if it has a chance of that. Single Race as it is is too random and casual, and there is no head-to-head mode that's dependent on skill.
I'm okay with weapons. However, I'm not okay with people who use AG-Systems to get the fast start just to get to the first weapon and use every bomb and mines they get their hands on. Some good racers will be 5 seconds ahead and still drop them. It's annoying, frustrating, and unneeded.
This is why I try to only play with people like DP, Oryx, Lady, and a few others. Everyone else is so hell bent on placing first that they don't even want to make it a close finish.
Ah I should've been clearer. I dont mind so much that weapons exist in the game but if you're unlucky a single mine can drop you from first to last place (think sol 2 open part and suddenly lapped mines!)as MrSmad said weapons are overpowered. What I'm especially sick of though are players who just cant seem to avoid putting the boot in as many times as possible.
I'm sure it's happened to everyone here once or twice: you're in the lead, you get shot by a missile as the guy passes you he blasts you with rockets and drops a bomb in your path right after the next weapon pad.
Curiously I dont mind cambodia races among friends though. I guess it's the feeling that people win only because of weapons that's annoying.
As a side note the phrase: "Greater use of combat" is the one single thing that gets me worried about wo2048.
I regret a lot that devs had included eliminator mode with Fury without porting also the multiplayer timetrial from pure !! I'd loved to race with some noob friends on HD ! :D
ATM i play a lot a little psn game called SkyDrift, and it have that kind of mode.
It's really very addictive !! I hope the speedlap online mode on 2048 will ressemble to it.8)
About weapons also, the more tactic use of items on next wipeout will make it less frustrating to play for pilots who wants more to race fast than shooting at everything !! :)
Weapon's gestion could be changed to bring some strategy.
In WOHD, I kinda hate them... rockets, mines or bombs slow you really too much. This has been said several times, it's not only my feeling ;)
In old Wipes, weapons used to slow you down less, and ships didn't take ages to gain speed again.
A game like Blur introduced more strategy with weapons.
I'm afraid the split in yellow/green pads in 2048 is not enough. Weapons must slow down less.
I totally agree! i love weapons but when people keep dropping mines and bombs it does get frustrating! when im in the lead (rarely) i will absorb everything except for turbos and shields and only lay bombs and mines if someone is right behind me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frailavi
But its a part of the game... learning to sideshift around the mines and not flying directly behind your opponents is the best way to avoid the bombs and mines.
Yes, I like the way the weapons are in the first game. They're tactical and subtle. 2097 is fine too. If the new games had something like that, I wouldn't complain about weapons at all. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Temet
I don't mind weapons at all, and I find in most of the races I do with a small starting grid that a gentlemans agreement seems to come into play- if racing just a couple of opponents, bombs and mines are infrequently laid, and the higher skill weapons are the polite way to go- cannon fire is fine! I only use quakes etc if my opponent has raced off into the distance.
weapons?
YES, of course. u know, it's a weapons based racing game.
u don't want weapons? easy solution: don't play wipEout.
play f-zero instead or other fast racers without weapons.
have u ever heard anyone saying: i don't like weapons in an ego-shooter? of course not.
It wasn't always a "combat racing" game, though.
As people have said before, it used to be about the anti-gravity ships, the speed, the challenge, racing; the weapons were just something extra that made it more tactical (with a little luck, of course). A racing game with weapons in it, not a luck-based-weapons-based racing game, as it's become.
If it had always been like this, I might agree with your solution. But what most people complain about applies to HD Fury much more than the other games. ;)
Voted for the wrong one. >_<
Meant to vote for Weapos are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
You don´t like weapons? easy solution: Turn them off. Yes, we can! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JFthebestJan
I won't go into a long essay, because a lot of people know my stance on weapons. Let's just say I don't like them.
Just thought I'd make myself a bit clearer as well. I don't think the use of weapons makes a pilot worse at the game, but I do think it takes the fun out of WipEout. I play WipEout because it's a high detail, extreme speed, Anti-Gravity racing game. Although weapons have their place in this game, some take it too far for my tastes.
This could be the reason I've been playing Jet Moto more than WipEout lately. (Weapons and lack of Phantom rooms)
For the most part I race DEfensively not offensively. If you shoot me I will not hesitate to shoot back! :D Don't really like the shootouts that tend to happen when you get a bunch of skilled racers in a heated race.
Since half of HD's modes have nothing to do with weapons I'd hardly call Wipeout a weapons-based racing game.Quote:
Originally Posted by JFthebestJan
Telling someone that what they like about a game is apparently beside the point and that they should play a completely different game instead seems a bit silly, no? Hell, 50% of people polled here on a WipEout fan site seem to outright disagree with that stance as of right now.
And I'm not sure what an ego-shooter is, but I'm pretty sure that's about 15 miles off the mark if you're talking about WipEout.
Anyway...
It ultimately comes down to what's fair. Weapons as they're currently implemented simply aren't, and it's fundamentally flawed game design IMO. You can say aspects of them are fun, but you can't escape the fact they're unfair either.
IMO, something needs to change if racing is meant to be the primary focus of WipEout, and it has to go further than toning down the amount of randomness by dividing the items between new pads.
Unfairness has no place in a skill-based racing game.
You know, the funny thing about weapons is that it's not the damage I despise, it's the slow down. If mines and rockets didn't stack their slow down (Or have any slow down at all), it wouldn't be too bad in my personal opinion.
Really I think only missiles and quakes should have slow down on hit. Only for the reason that missiles should be used to overtake an opponent who is giving you trouble and quake is indiscriminate on who it hits.
+1 Frailavi, I hate the slowdown most of the weapons cause.
Also, I haven't played HD extensively for a while, but don't mines and bombs have a "bounce effect" when you hit them as well? Honestly, I thought that plus the slowdown afterwards was total overkill.
I think the bomb has that effect, but mines do not. The mines just stack the slow down (lengthens the time needed to begin accelerating again) depending on how many you hit... unfortunately if you hit even one mine you lose all control over your ship and can't really dodge the rest.
I like the combat side of things, and sometimes there's nothing more satisfying than duking it out with somebody over the length of a race. But it's incredibly annoying that a single bomb or set of mines can render a race over before it's really started. You're five seconds behind the pack and you know you've got several more bombs and mines to come.
This isn't an excuse for rage-quitting though. Just suck it up and get to the next race ;)
What's an excuse to ragequit then ? Plus you do society a service by not making the others wait for you :P
Seriously though, it's more of a problem of how many (good) players you stuff into a room methinks. Generally, you get more easily chained-killed in a full room if you see what I mean, even in weps off . You get a lot more of action though, too much for me sometimes.
For people saying "play F-Zero", "play weapons off", "don't play wipeout"...
I like weapons! I don't like no weapon.
What I don't like, is that they slow down too much!
They must take energy down, they must slow down... but not that much!
For 2048, dev said they wanted "wing to wing" races... so I hope they decreased the slow down due to weapons... or it will never be "wing to wing" ;)
@ flint:
yes, we can turn off weapons, but it's not a 'solution' someone can be pleased with. u can't regain lost energy, that makes the whole experience a bit boring in my opinion.
@ ampli:
all the modes u r talking about, r exclusively single player offline modes, so we can't count it. all online modes (single race; eliminator; zone battle; tournament) re weapons based. fact.
well, ego-shooter (first person shooters) r weapons based, so it's not 15 miles off, just a few millimetres ;)
HD is not just about online you know. The single player aspect of it makes up a LOT, so you can't really discount that and say that it doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by JFthebestJan
Single Race has weapons off mode. That's niche, you say? Well then I'd argue Zone Battle, Detonator, and Eliminator as being niche modes compared to Speed Lap, TT, and even Zone.
these offline modes (speed lap; time trial; zone; detonator) doesn't involve other ships on track, so it makes no sense to include weapons to them. detonator is a bit different, u need weapons here, otherwise u wont get a high score.
in general, only modes with opposition can be counted to this discussion. all of them have weapons..........