Best gamepad for WOHD

I wondered this cause as far as I'm concerned the DS3 stock pad does not completely fit my need, I wondered which pad could be the best for wipeout HD,

Searching a comparative on third parties accessories I came across this page (french) :
http://news.idealo.fr/news/2812/quel...une-autre.html

it's quite nice since it gives quite a good overview of what can be found on the market atm but it's not detailed enough IMHO.

1. What do I (perhaps you too) need ?
* a home button is a must have, so a specific PS3 controller is needed that wipes out many good controllers, like the negcon for instance (many of you seem to like it)
* motion sensors : for barrel rolls, or else you can only do them on specific places like the jumps on VK, AP and CP, that leaves even fewer gamepads
* good D-pad : the one on the DualShock3 isn't really convenient for me, this is the main reason I'm looking for another one
* solid analog sticks : as a former trackmania player I used many of them and with time some sticks seem to have a larger and larger dead zone which is bad, the DS3 seems good for this, my former logitech chillstream was good too but does not have motion sensors.

2. Which gamepads seems to meet those requirements ?
Some gamepads from the above link do have this, but I've also found another one

* Thrustmaster Run’N Drive Wireless 3 in 1 Rumble Force and derivatives : this one looks a bit fragile though (the sticks in particular
* MadCatz PS3 Wireless
* Logic3 Freebird
* Subsonic Shock 3 Pad
* Bigben PS3 wireless (the article says it does not have motion but it does) (poor quality)
* Newcom Deloo Starter Pack
* Nyko Zero

I may forget some of them

Which one would you (not) recommend and why? :)

Recommended :
* Saturn GamePad

Wiped Out (reason) :
* BigBen (poor quality of sticks, d-pad and triggers)
* Nyko Zero (D-Pad is not good for WOHD

Once I tried to play using PSP (through USB cable and FuSa Gamepad homebrew - yes, it works like a normal usb controller). :dizzy
The d-pad was working quite well (I got used to it - IMO it's a little softer, and better, than DS3), but shoulder buttons as Airbrakes - horrible :cold
I don't know how I was able to play Pulse using these :lol

But generally, it can be a great alternative for the people who played Pure/Pulse a lot and can't get used to different controller (DualShock)

Bigben sucks, don't bother. Never used the motion in it but the sticks, shoulder buttons and dpad are clunky.

If you are willing to sacrifice a home button, analogue sticks and motion control then there are a lot of USB non-specific controllers out there that work fine with the PS3. I'm not sure if you personally need these, so feel free to ignore or read this post if you want to.

I use a SEGA Saturn USB controller (some of you will have heard me going on about how much I like it) and it's for me the greatest controller ever made, including playing WipEout. I do have a slight bias towards being the first controller I played WipEout with when the Saturn was still around so I prefer it, however, I do have good reason for using it other than that. The d-pad is probably the best ever made, the six face button layout works well and the shoulder buttons are much better than those on a DualShock. You can find a USB Saturn controller for around £15/€18/$25 on eBay or import websites.

If you aren't willing to sacrifice the general PS3 set-up then I'd stick with the DualShock 3. Most 3rd party controllers are awful from experience. From your list I've only used the Big Ben which was OK but the sticks were a bit funny and it requires AA batteries. There are lots of other controllers out there for PS3 or otherwise, the best thing to do is read reviews and find as many as you can. Unfortunately you'll never know if you like it until it's in your hands.

The reason I need the home button is because my gf and my son also play the console so we often switch to another profile and I prefer to switch while the console is up rather than turning it off. But what you say does make sense too. I just wonder how you can pitch the nose of your craft up/down then, that's where motion sensors are really useful for me (BR addict here :P)

the problem though is that it's hard to find comparatives for these pads, except when you want to compare prices :/

I really don't know about a whole new controller but yesterday I was in Game Stop and they had those little add-on trigger buttons for the #2 shoulder buttons (which I still use as air brakes). Took a couple of races to get used to them but man now I can really crank on the turns with the controller without worrying about my fingers slipping off.

this one would have been perfect if it had motion sensors : http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...d=49&Itemid=65

I guess I'm probably the only one, but I use an arcade stick to play. The arcade stick has way more precision than a d-pad. Just took a while to get used to using all my fingers to work the controls. Ring is thrust, pointer handles weapons and thumb rocks the airbrakes.

I shaved a ton of time off my laps once I got used to this. Only drawbacks is that the controller is 100% analog. No getting 70% thrust, it's 100% or 0. No slightly airbraking. Full airbrake or non, etc. I love it.

You mean digital.
And Jabberjaw plays Quantum Redshift with a custom arcade stick, don't know if he sometimes does for WipEout HD as he uses another controller for that.

There's no need for motion sensing to perform a pletphora of barrel rolls. Just pitch will suffice. Learning to not only using the thumb, or whichever finger controls the d-pab, to not only move laterally but also vertically (or to and fro if that's the case) isn't a giant leap. At first it may seem awkward but you may find it's easier to control, that is my experience. That way you make it do what you want instead of what the controller wants from you.

I've tried the Nyko Zero, awesome to hold with my hands, nice and sturdy r and l buttons but the d-pad is a joke. It resembles a roulette table...with a restricted turn. And the battery pack is large and external. It didn't interfere with my fingers but it easily could hinder.

I want to try the MadCatz FightPad with WOHD to see how it is, it's a lot like the Saturn controller and the D-Pad is amazing on the 360 version.

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Originally Posted by AnErare

There's no need for motion sensing to perform a pletphora of barrel rolls. Just pitch will suffice. Learning to not only using the thumb, or whichever finger controls the d-pab, to not only move laterally but also vertically (or to and fro if that's the case) isn't a giant leap. At first it may seem awkward but you may find it's easier to control, that is my experience. That way you make it do what you want instead of what the controller wants from you.

I've tried the Nyko Zero, awesome to hold with my hands, nice and sturdy r and l buttons but the d-pad is a joke. It resembles a roulette table...with a restricted turn. And the battery pack is large and external. It didn't interfere with my fingers but it easily could hinder.

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I seriously think that pitch is much easier with the motion sensing than using the pad to do it. A good thing would be to be able to reprogram buttons for doing it which seem to be the case of the thrustmaster

I agree with Ane Rare,

"motion sensors : for barrel rolls, or else you can only do them on specific
places like the jumps on VK, AP and CP, that leaves even fewer gamepads"

=> this is wrong, you can do all the BR with the pad or analog, without any
motion control, I never use it and I can execute difficult BRs rather consistently
(90% of the time for the hard ones).

Also, pirhapac and Wotan are not using motion and are fantastic barrel rollers.

Thing is, difficulty is not so much into pitching, it's more about doing
Left-Right-Left super fast.

well I guess I gotta get used to do it this way then :)

so basically any Gamepad that has a decent D-Pad can do the job. Then I might give the thrustmaster a try.

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Originally Posted by Rubix42

I guess I'm probably the only one, but I use an arcade stick to play.

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You have a link to that stick ?

I tried the MadCatz FightPad and didn't like it. It isn't rechargeable so need batteries. It isn't bluetooth so comes with a dongle which permanently occupies one USB port. I also found it annoying for WipEout. Using it for Street Fighter was fine, but for WipEout I seem to hold it slightly differently, i.e. I spread my fingers across the back of the controller rather than holding on at the sides, which is more what I do for SF. With the massive battery pack on the back this was a problem. It just got in the way. I do have slightly lanky fingers though :(

The d-pad feels nice and smooth but I didn't like it for barrel rolls myself. I found a quick l-r-l motion, or vice-versa, was very difficult with something that had so much travel (compared to the DS3 d-pad) and felt kind of 'squidgy' (technical term :p).

I've heard a lot of people recommend it for WipEout, but I'm not convinced that those aren't just people who like their USB Sega Saturn controllers, see the similarity with the FightPad and assume that it would be as good.

I wonder what AndyBob thinks. He had a FightPad too. I'm not sure if he kept it though as the last I saw he was claiming to be an old school d-pad user...hmmm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaturnReturn

I tried the MadCatz FightPad and didn't like it. It isn't rechargeable so need batteries.

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That's either good or bad IMHO, batteries are less efficient over time, while you can use standard accus that will last and that you will be able to change as it is standard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaturnReturn

It isn't bluetooth so comes with a dongle which permanently occupies one USB port.

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well, sony is the only one to make bluetooth devices AFAIK, I think you can't avoid this, I understand it's a bad point, but unless you stick to DS3/Sixaxis you can't avoid it, even for guitar hero/rock band controllers :( (hopefully harmonix gives you a usb-hub but well, that's only a workaround)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zitrax

You have a link to that stick ?

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Do you mean you want me to post a pic of it? If so, I can do that over the weekend.

Or do you want to know which one I have? If so, it's the SFIV TE stick from Madcatz. I installed an 8 way gate and it purrs like a kitten. Super responsive.

do not use the wireless run n gun thrustmaster controller, it is not responsive enough, not sure why because

THRUSTMASTER DUAL TRIGGER CONTROLLER is basically the same thing, but wired. It has a fantastic dpad, and you can switch functions between buttons, meaning you can put pitch on a button if you like (which I do) It is very good for barrel rolls. You can even switch analog stick functions with eihter stick or any button, or even the dpad. I have three of these things, and it is very nice with HD

OH, it is called "DUAL TRIGGER", however, there are three triggers for each side, which makes for very nice customization.

ONe more thing, this thing works with ps2 as well, meaning you can play pulse with it, or get some amazing times on extreme g3

Downside for you

1) no motion sensing, however, it is not needed with the functions this controller has regarding the pitch

2) no HOME BUTON: All you need to do is set a wireless controller next to you, and you can still turn off the system with that one when the time comse

You just convinced me to order one :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Thrustmaster...3286.m20.l1116

here it is. on ebay

Got it, now I feel like giving pros and cons about this one :

Pros :
- as you said the DPad is just fantastic
- reprogrammable buttons : that's really a great feature, I'm using it right now to switch the triggers with the third pair
- amazing ergonomy : the DS3 was too small IMHO, this one stick in your hands and the grip is awesome

Cons :
- rumble does not work, even if it has it, it's not handled for the PS3, I miss it somehow, I liked "feeling" when I hit the walls or go on a boost
- less precise analog stick : it's a bit smaller, I think I just gotta get used to it, but on the other side BRs can be a bit easier too, if you don't use the DPad
- the [LR][12] triggers are really bad, hopefully the third pair of trigger is just way better and better than the DS3 triggers

Overall a great alternative to the DS3 assuming you don't mind having a wired pad (the cable is quite long though)

So I finally figured out what I hate about Wipeout HD's handling - it's the airbrakes. There's actually nothing wrong with the airbrakes themselves, but with those worthless "triggers" on the DualShock 3 controller. They're unresponsive and take real effort to push; it's absolutely horrible. It's like squeezing little marshmallows. The airbrakes require finesse and tight control, and those awful little nubs don't have it at all.

So, I'm here to ask you guys a question: what are the best third-party PS3 controllers? I tried using the R1 and L1 buttons on the DualShock 3, but they're too high up and feel awkward, and I don't do any better. I really want to like this game more, but I can't see myself being very good at it with my current controller.

Have you tried using R1 for acceleration and square and triangle for airbrakes? I can't play any other way...

I never thought of that. I'll try it sometime.

Have you tried adjusting the air brake sensitivity in options>controls,the lower the % the more sensitive.
Then you also have those little plastic clip on things that make using the triggers easier,I'm sure some here use them already and know what I'm talking about and will supply a link

I was looking for something recently too, having broken the L1 button on another controller. I didn't want to pay the money for a new one just for WOHD, but in the end I Couldn't find anything I liked the look of, so I bought the Gioteck real triggers. When I tried the trigger buttons without them I was hopeless, but with them I'm reasonable. They still aren't as good as L1/R1 for me but if you prefer more control with something like the triggers anyway then it could be the best option. They're very cheap so worth a try.

After a search, there seem to be a lot of threads about controls and a few that venture into controllers.

Some useful threads:
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...ght=controller
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...ght=controller

As a general thought, you can be good with any control setup. I used to always wonder about d-pad vs. stick, for example, and would sometimes try to blame my setup for not being as good as I wanted to be, but it's really not about the controller at all (for most people), it's just about practice.

The threads for control setups and controllers are so numerous and spread out that, in order to keep it a bit more organised, I've to merged the thread "Third-party PS3 controllers?" with this "Best Gamepad for WOHD" thread.

I use an original PSX Dual Shock with USB adapter;

+ d-pad has very little travel, so BRs are much easier to pull off in comparison to the DS2/DS3
+ all buttons are digital (not pressure sensitive like DS2/DS3), so if you're pressing them then the machine interprets each press as 100% pressure
+ no mushy triggers

- hard to find one with analog sticks that haven't been used and abused
- no motion-sensing (though if you don't have games that require it, it's not a big deal)

If I need "Home" access, i just keep a normal DS3 at my side.

The Saturn controller is a good one to look into, both the US/European and the Japanese models.


I dunno, it depends on how you play, too... I keep airbrake and acceleration sensitivity as low as possible so gas and brakes are all or nothing when I use them. Unfortunately it's not exactly easy to try out tons of different controllers without spending a lot of money...

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Originally Posted by blackwiggle

Have you tried adjusting the air brake sensitivity in options>controls,the lower the % the more sensitive.

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Since day one. The problem is that the "triggers" themselves are unresponsive and uncomfortable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackwiggle

Then you also have those little plastic clip on things that make using the triggers easier,I'm sure some here use them already and know what I'm talking about and will supply a link

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Trigger extensions? No; I'm looking for something closer to a button, or maybe the resistance of the original XBOX's triggers without the travel distance.

Dualshock 2 with USB adapter probs fits that bill the best. Haven't really used any other pads except for GC, N64, xbox on occasion, but I'm too used to playstation Controllers to like anything else very much. Living in a Sony bubble over here :p

Tried the DS2+adapter here. It sucks for HD if you want to be fast, due to the full analogue buttons, like AG-wolf mentions. You can't do sideshifts and barrel rolls nearly as well. It could depend on the adapter though, so others' experiences may differ. AG-wolf also advised me about the DS1 and I trust what he says, so if you have one then the adapter is probably worth a try to attempt a solution at low cost. The DS3+Gioteck real triggers is actually better for me than the DS2 as I can just press them very high up/far forward to quickly sideshift, and then if I want a bit more control on a particular corner I can push down further back on the button where there'll be more travel. Again, a potential very low cost option for anyone in the same position to try, if they're not already dead set against triggers altogether.

You know, after doing a bit of reading, I've come to the conclusion that trigger extensions just might be the thing for me. Now I just need to order them.

Well, I got the trigger extensions, and they were actually worse than the normal triggers. They curved too much, like they were trying to push my thumbs away.

Thankfully, I've developed a light enough touch that I no longer have trouble with the normal triggers. Progress!

@ Yeldar & Saturn
you can use a DS1 with the DS2->USB adapter