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Hello everyone,
Recently a question sprang to mind: it appears that wipEout has been more successful and influential in Europe than in the US. I wonder why that is. Okay, as far as Fusion and SE go, they were more promoted over here, but still that probably (?) was in response to the different reception of the games in the NTSC zone.
Does anyone have an explanation for this?
Peace,
V.
maybe its cos of the whole style of the game,.... its vey european/japanese.....
That`s a lot to do with it Rhys, I think.
And well, hmmm, I think Wipeout is primarily supposed to create an experience, rather than be a representation of anything, like a Sports Sim game, driving game or a shooter. Wipeout at its best is very abstract, and maybe that`s not so popular in the USA.
I think zone is the only part of Fusion that stands up to ye olde Wipeouts, and that`s because its a very abstract and very focussed experience.
what do you mean "european/japanese"!? european and japanese games have a completely different flavor!Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
anyhow, I don't know why wipeout wasn't very popular here. maybe it's an attention span thing...
well, in the first wipeouts there was alot of jaoanese influence, in fusion, its more european, but theres still that oriental thing in there somewhere.....
Yes Rhys, Curly is Japanese I think. :D
or not?
Yes, I also found that the first wipEout had something Japanese due to the symbols on the cover and inside the manual. Also, many people associate Japan with hi-tech gadgets, and wipEout has this "gadgetty" thing. Still, it doesn't quite explain the success here in Europe.
Peace,
V.
I think the answer is not to look only at the game. Western Europe and Japan are post-industrial societies with decaying or decayed empires - pretty much the kind of world Wipeout takes place in. Its a kind of escapism - building absurd racetracks while the world and society crumble - that appeals to Europeans and Japanese at this stage of our history.
The USA on the other hand is a young, optimistic nation, with much of its pioneer spirit and "work ethic" intact - and most of the place is further away from the imagined world of Wipeout.
In terms of style, Wipeout can be seen as a cyberpunk trance vision of the future, and while such things may be popular in an underground way in the States, they are quite mainstream in Europe and Japan. So the style of Wipeout is more suited to the European than the American mind, in very general terms.
You could also say Europeans like dark and moody stuff like Wipeout because they are miserable people.
I`m not a cultural expert, but I think if you look at musical tastes you might see similar trends.
As for the gameplay, you have to sit infront of wipeout for a while to get good enough to really enjoy it, so there may be something in that attention span idea. :wink:
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lunar: the USA is a decidedly post-industrial society that exists primarily as a marketing economy, and depending on third-world countries for industrial production. with the rise of the japanese as an economic power, the optimism and confidence of the american people in general eroded. its middle class became filled with ennui and insecurity. only the military power of the U.S. relative to the rest of the world since the collapse of the soviet union continues to give any confidence or optimism to the adult population. it is a society of escapists who seek release from worries and grinding meaningless jobs in mindless entertainment, often with high action content or eye-candy, and a predilection for either revenge fantasies or rose-coloured-glasses sweetness.
that being said, the kids still retain optimism, but that is largely because they are oblivious to international problems. many of them are used to having a great deal by world standards, and as a consequence, are likewise used to the [possible] overstimulation of easy access to entertainment. this may indeed tend to result in short attention spans. i generally am afflicted with this also, though i was not when i was a child. nonetheless, my favourite game is wip3out. odd, isn't it?
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Lance I wouldn`t want to disagree with what you say about the USA, after all I`ve only been to the USA on visits, and you live there. But I think many Americans have a different idea of themselves than Europeans, just look at how proud a lot of Americans are of their flag. I`m not saying that`s a good or a bad thing, but hanging out Union Jacks is considered more than a bit naff over here. I think this difference is because in the UK we see our national flag as belonging to an empire and values which are behind us, and we are uncertain about the future. In America a greater number of people are proud of their country and optimistic about its future, even if they are deluded as you suggested.
Anyway, I think all this relates to Wipeout because the vision of the future it fits in with is a more popular European and Japanese than American idea.
but it is odd, I know lots of gamers but no-one who likes wipeout as much as I do. I think they don`t like it because its not a simulation of anything they can identify with, and because they think its too challenging to be much fun.
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the number of americans who are displaying flags in remembrance of the destruction of the world trade center is probably less than one in a hundred. there is only one in the double block where i live. there was a few months' fad for displaying a flag on one's car after the event, but the number doing so now are reduced to perhaps one in 200 or 300. another year without a war against iraq and the number will be down to its usual almost zero. Americans in general don't care about empire, but you see patriotism when they feel that the home country is threatened.
the only genuine sentimental flag displaying i've seen in the last four plus decades came after the terrorist attack on the WTC. the ritual display of the flag and attendant playing of the national anthem at sports events or official government ceremonies is a holdover from an earlier time and is generally just suffered through by the majority who are there for personal entertainment reasons or because they have to be. the national holiday on july 4 is largely an excuse to have fun, though i'm sure there are a few who use part of that time to give a thought to how lucky they feel to be here instead of some rather less desirable locations.
you would be amazed at how much Orlando resembles P-Mar Project. especially on the west side from highway 50 to International Drive [the center of the tourist district]. the area looks like a residential park in some areas, and a commercial one in others. while you're on north-south expressway bridges, you can look down the landscaped east-west expressways toward the east and see the center city of Orlando with its modest collection of tall buildings. i hope the collection remains modest in both number and height, though i don't know if it will. but at the moment, it only lacks antigrav raceways to look like P-Mar. i'm just glad it doesn't look like MegaCity itself
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I suppose I may have missed a few things, but I never really thought of Wipeout as being set in a dark future. But then I don't pay attention to any parts of a backstory that aren't important to playing a game. As a result, I have to wonder if the whole view of the future has anything to do with the game's lack of popularity in the US. I live in the US, and I haven't seen much mention of the setting of Wipeout in either 3 or Fusion, except little bits in the manual.
When I play, I just figure the story is that it's a race, it's fun, and I get to compete. That is all the backstory I need, and it seems to be the backstory used for Gran Turismo, except those games are set in the present. I found them more challenging that Wipeout at the start, but Wipeout (Phantom, Zone level 50+, etc) can be quite hard.
Also, I was just racing on the P-mar Project and I'd have to say that Orlando is flatter and has fewer hot air balloons. It could use one with curly, though.
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central orlando and the east and south sides are quite flat, but the west and north are hilly. i'm sure that the balloons at P-Mar are there for a once-a-year balloon race. there used to be a hot-air balloon excursion service in orlando, so i used to see one or two come over my house in the mornings when the wind was blowing in the right direction from the field where they started. a couple of times they landed about a quarter-mile from my house
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Europeans miserable people? :D... I didn't think so.
But I think there's some truth in the fin-de-siècle-feeling that is more present in European countries and cities than in American ones; countries that once ruled half the world like France, Spain or the United Kingdom are now medium powers in the world in the shadow of America or as team player in Europe (a role which the UK finds hard to play :x). On the other hand, cities like New York also have something apocalyptic and are much gloomier than London, Paris, Berlin or Brussels could ever be.
However. I don't think wipEout is especially gloomy. Certainly not in the first game, where the music is rather positive. The only "dark" track is Korodera, and in the while wipEout saga I believe there's only one real reference to world politics and that's in Fusion, where the world is ruled in a rather fascistoid manner (there's mention of revolts in the EU, and the rules of the racing commission are quite authoritarian).
Peace,
V.
2097 would probably not have gathered such a following if Gare D`Europa had been set in bright sunlight with rolling green hills, flowers and fluffy clouds all over the place, and I think that says something. But also I suppose we project our own vision of the future on the wipeout world, and to me it fits quite nicely in a Blade Runner style world, with Anit-Grav Racing fitting into the political system somewhere like Rollerball does in the 70s movie. But I`d have to admit the game doesn`t really provide totally solid support for that view.
2097 is less optimistic than Wip3out for sure, and Porta Kora and P-Mar do look like lovely places for a picnic with the family.
Even though its not so popular in the US, I think the states has had more Anti-Grav tracks than any other nation, being represented in every version of the game? Has there ever been a UK track? Its probably realistic not to have one, because in real life a UK track would go ten times over budget and never get finished.
This topic has made me finally start playing through Wip3out SE, and my god its tough and unforgiving after playing Fusion, but its much faster and much more fun.
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tracks in the U.K.- man, if you thought the people who lived around the bumpy old Brooklands course in the 1920's complained about the engine noise, you just wait till today's less stalwart and even more complaining citizens get a load of A-G racing's missile fire and the rolling thunder of quake disruptors!!!
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I know that Canada was represented in the first two Wipeout games. I can only think of the US track in Fusion. Where are the other US tracks?
Just asking,
spaceboy gajo
Arridos VI in the first wipEout, Spilskinanke in wipEout 2097 and Florion Height in wipEout Fusion. As the third installment takes place in Mega City, there's no certainty of American track presence there.
Peace,
V.
Mega City must surely be in the states, or possibly Canada? In what other countries could you have a mayor called Randolph Mullion?
Well lunar, as far as I recall in Wip3out the city held all the racing events with no national ties whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunar
It could possibly be held in Canada. We do have the world's largest shopping mall in Edmonton.
Also, on the Wipeoutfusion.com web site, the metropolis is now abandoned since the league does not race there any more. It's like the mining towns bulit in Canada. When there is no more mining to drive the town's economy, everyone usually packs up and leaves.
Certainly there are a lot of space in Canada to build more cities.
However, my theory on the F7200 racing circuit is that it's on an island. Either man made or made from an under water volcano. Both possibilies can happen since it's the future. I say that, because it looks like the city was built for racing. Like a city bidding for the Olympics! Like I said, before there is no country fessing up to who owns this once bustling metropolis.
If you ask me, I'd still live in that metropolis even though F9000 is currently the thing! That city looked to be one great engineering marvel!
spaceboy gajo
PS - Vasudeva, thanks for the update about the American tracks. I knew they had one for Wipeout. However Spilskinanke doesn't sound American at all!
Actually, Wipeout XL was extrememly successful in the US.
Wipeout was a "sleeper hit", but Wipeout 3 bombed bigtime, though not as bad as Fusion, I believe.
I know for the month of July, Fusion only pushed about 7,000 copies, according to the NPD Group(don't know recent figures though, doubt they're any better).
Sure it's American!
(see other post where developer tells all about the origin of this track name)
Escape From ___ ____ and the sequel Escape From _ _, very American! 8 )