Is anyone else finding the new 'Elite' AI really really hard to beat? Especially on Chenghou? it just took me about 25mins and 7 or 8 tries to beat it in the second grid....
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Is anyone else finding the new 'Elite' AI really really hard to beat? Especially on Chenghou? it just took me about 25mins and 7 or 8 tries to beat it in the second grid....
They do make you work, yes. I think it`s cool that you have to fly reasonably fast just to catch them. In one race I saw the leading ship holding a plasma, waiting for me to pass, so I had to make sure to take him out before I went past. Touches like that are quite impressive AI.
I was being brutalized at the back of the field in 7th 8th place, unable to catch the leaders!:redface: it takes some extremely crafty flying and some precise weaponwork to beat them, for sure.
While I do appreciate the really hard AI, I think it takes it a little too far sometimes. Try a race on Sebenco Climb Phantom with Elite AI and you'll know what I am talking about. They fly lines that are impossible - and I'm not saying that as a noob. I did a couple of perfect laps, all speed pads, really nice line, and still got passed by AI ships (no turbo pickups involved). Autopilots really become valuable then, when you activate them you are somehow a lot faster than racing the same line yourself. Something's not perfectly straight here...
I like having competent AI. i found the pure/pulse AI lacking in competitiveness, and i was constantly winning races by 3 seconds or more. This AI im fighting till the end, and then some. Sure, it can be a little bullshit at times, but patches can fix obvious discrepancies, cant they?
Elite difficulty sounds very tantalizing. My biggest complaint about XL was the AI felt brain dead, very rarely when playing Wipeout do I ever feel like I'm really working for a victory...
Elite is really hard this time, good luck on finishing first the first time. It does take some practice, but I managed to beat them eventually. Of course it takes a good dose of luck too, you don't want to be hit by weapons' fire too much.
I've dropped the AI down to Skilled, Elite are just too brutal and you feel like breaking something when they press the bullshit buttons.. The Skilled AI still give you a really good race without the frustration.
Elite:eek Ridiculously savage. So much more difficult than Pulse's Hard AI :brickwall
The AI is clearly the most advanced for a WipEout game, but there are times where I find it programmed similar to that of 2097... well not entirely...
I feel as though still the AI is doing enough to stay in front of you for the majority of the way... where 2097 is that you couldn't get into first until "Lap X"... so if you go crap, you have no chance, but even if you are flying well, they are either still in front of you early on... and towards the end, they are right there and/or getting reasonable catch up to make sure you work for it...
oh well, it's a challenge... and that's what it's supposed to be, but like all there are times where you feel robbed because you know that shouldn't have happened...
IMO the elite AI is really too hard especially on Chenghou!:brickwall
Like said above, the AI is too fast! it's a bit like Mario kart: the AI cheats to be competitive. I HATE this method!
The ships' capacities are not respected: take a Goteki and everyone will thrust better than you, take an Icaras and you'll be overtaken in straight line!
Moreover, the AI taking a hit (rockets for ex) doesn't slow down as much as a player would, which is very frustrating. Yes, FRUSTRATING is the word, as in Mario Kart!:bomb
Also, in a good "hard mode" I think a GOOD player should be able to win almost any race, which is, IMO,not the case here. The amount of luck needed is too important.
As a consequence, the "arcade perfect" trophy is gonna be a tough one to get.
Yeah i know where u guys are coming from..My poor pad is suffering as a result lol...i had to turn the game off and chill it p£$$%d me off that much:bomb
the thing thats dissapointing is that the elite AI is set so high that it comes down to luck with weapons, on TOP of taking great racing lines that lets you beat it. Well at least thats how it seems to me as I was lucky with Chengou, I got a couple of quakes at the starting lap which let me overtake early and breakaway!
oh YES it's insane. I really hope it's just because we started last thursday. I'm really afraid to begin a phantom race in the meldown grid now, after all the hours already spent to get all the elite gold before... I've clearly the feeling the AI is cheating to spare time in a lap, guns are the unique chance to get the lead... Hope to laugh about that thread in 6 months!
so do I, means we'll all have gotten better at piloting :D
ColdRem's, I was thinking about the same thing for the ship capacities. They are really not respected. I know how you feel, but keep practising guys and eventually the luck/skill balance will be, well, more balanced.
Agreed. I've seen this on many occasions. I'm thinking maybe its my pitch? but it turns out it wasn't. it still did the same thing for some weird reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
This is great news! I am not alone...
Raced Chenghou last night with Elite opponents. A lot of swearing was involved I can tell you, until the 20th try or something. I finally got that gold medal but man!, you really have to take all speed pads, all possible barrel rolls plus a couple of turbos to make it! Once, I was second place in the last corner with a quake. Guess who got pissed off when I accidentally absorbed it! This game just might be to much for me to handle... :dizzy
Just raced the Elite AI again on Chenghou while going for the Elite Campaign Master Trophy. It does honestly seem to me that the game determines before the start of the race whether it is possible for you to win or not. I had an excellent race, hitting every speed pad, barrel rolling wherever I could, even a couple of turbos thrown in. I finished 6th with absolutely no hope of catching anyone in front of me. I then had another go, putting in nearly the same race time, and won.
Logic defies me...
The AI in ELITE is soo damn hard, i wonder if i ll get that trophy...
Sounds like a more extreme version of the Arcade mode on the original Gran Turismo.
I did experience this to. Sometimes last, sometimes battling for the medals... I doubt it is determined before the race. I actually think it is all about the pickups. If you get a turbo in the beginning and firing it off over the two small jumps you can get up to 3rd on the first lap, but if the AI:s in front don´t pound each other hard with weapons they disappear in the horizon. So it is actually a matter of being a little lucky with the pickups.
Yeah, that's usually a hallmark of overusing a cheap-n-easy AI design.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntekAgreed. I've seen this on many occasions. I'm thinking maybe its my pitch? but it turns out it wasn't. it still did the same thing for some weird reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
What I mean is, to make a bad AI opponent tougher, you can either make the AI "smarter" (really tough to do!) or you can just make it go faster. So you make them always travel at 110% speed, and you can only do 100%, so they're normally faster than you. Then you take the Autopilot, and while it's activated your ship follows the same rules as the AI ships, which means suddenly you can do 110% speed. Which is why you're faster with an Autopilot and why the AI ships are so annoying to you with their speed-without-effort.
That's my guess at it anyway. 8 )
Also if you get hit with one weapon, consider it as game-over unless you can drive well and not hit walls, at all (Or just a little). This will prevent some frustration, as otherwise you will be anxious until the finish where you will be everywhere but first place.
Luck with pickups yes, but not only. You also have to drive very well, and IMHO driving well is still the most important part. If you scrape too many walls, you will lose, no matter how many quakes, rockets, missiles or plasmas you will get.
Sure, Dark, i always considered that, in wipeout, the weapons use was to clean the road ;)
@Task: that's what I meant, yes. Might not be 110% speed, but they sure defy the game's physics in some turns.
8 ) That's another good sign of a fast-n-cheap AI.
If they don't follow the same rules the player does, they're obviously playing by a different set.
Not a big surprise, really. It's quite difficult to create a good AI opponent and this was supposed to be a quick release, there was likely never time to craft a good AI opponent.
Hardly necessary, what with the solid online capabilities they built into it!
Just want to state loud and clear that the AI is a real charm to race at 'skilled' difficulty, they almost feel like human players there, so it's not all bad ;)
Well I just got my Arcade Perfect Trophy. I hope I don't have to race elite AI on sebenco or Chenghou on phantom again. my god, that was extremely frustrating.
Does the "Elite" difficulty you're talking about is a secret 4th difficulty level ? or is it the 3rd one (It seems to me that there were only 3 difficulty level, in french version : "Facile" (easy?), Normal (normal?), Difficile (hard?/elite?)
At 3rd difficulty level, I was really frustrated on sebenco climb (3rd grid) because I was left behind even with some boost (when I was lucky enough to get them).
Then I decided to left it and the same happened on moa therma.
When I checked the control options, I've seen that the parameter "Sensibilité accélération" (Acceleration sensibility ?), just below airbrake sensibility, was set to 70% which isn't the default value.
I reset it to default (20-30% i don't remember), and suddently victory on the 2 races (sebenco climb and moa therma) wasn't only a dream anymore.
Do someone understand this option and its effect ?
The higher the number the harder you need to push the button.
The Elite AI is a bastard yes but come on people, it's a challenge and no ones forcing you to compete against them just drop it down a notch. It's annoying sometimes but it's even more satisfying when you beat them.
Once you thoroughly learn a track and know where to pitch the luck factor is reduced severely. The Elite can kiss my ass, I've got the trophy to prove it :P
I like those Elite AI ships with their nasty suicidal techniques : keeping the right weapon till you pass them or just flying perfectly over the last ChenGhou chicane.
My point of view it's a great challenge to acheive and i am enjoying it so much.( on a sidenote i don't have internet access for online gaming atm where i am studying at least tomorrow i ll return to Le Havre ready for HD online and see if my arse will be kicked in an 'elite' way :twisted
Oh yeah, the AI is definately bullshit sometimes. Just a second ago I was racing on Phantom/Elite on Chengou Project and during the big fall in mid air about half way down the drop I get hit by ROCKETS!! WHAT THE F'?? THAT IS COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE! MID-FALL I GET HIT BY ROCKETS?!?!
It is possible if there was another ship behind you also in fall with rockets, I know cos I've shot people and been shot by rockets when falling during Pure.
I like elite. It seems less weapon-heavy than hard AI in Pulse. It cheats a bit, but it`s good training. :)
i hope thats a joke. whenever you're near last place, its a mine field. that or whenever you're first, its a cannon fest or missles.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunar
I'm losing my mind here! I almost broke my DS3 with my explosion of rage at sebenco climb phantom elite! can anyone do 2:04:71 on it? somehow, the AI did. my best was 2:07:? (don't remember) lol.
I can't beat the elite on Sebenco, Chengou and Ubermall...
goin' to drink some whisky cola to relex :P
Perseverance my fellow pilots!
it may be hard but its not impossible. :) Although there is a huge luck element.
I think this is what a REAL AG-race would be like - Surely the pilots would use every weapon to their advantage? Perhaps the AI does cheat a bit but the sense of achievement after finally beating them is wondrous :)
phantom/elite chenghou is very hard... sebenco is f'ing impossible... ubermall i did without much trouble.
I don't think I'm going to bother playing on Elite difficulty. I've been playing Wipeout for years, so probably could, but I dont want to. It doesnt sound fun, just ridiculous. AI that cheats makes me want to avoid it out of principle, and if i'm going to get enraged instead of enjoyment, doesn't that defeat the point?
Nah, i'll stick to Skilled. They give an aggressive, realistic, firm but fair(er) race.