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GEEEZ!!!!! Yes, I did it!!!!!!!! I got under 18 seconds! on Porto Cora TT W3 SE and I did it wiv my ol' good Dual Shock2:P!!!!
Thx Assayeah... I don't know why but it happend about half an hour after I read your message in my box.
I am not quite sure... is that time good or those resulst in the tables are just old and it is nothing special??
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looks good to me.
but where is your racetime?
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My race time?? I don't know:) I just wanted to go under 18 seconds this time so I didn't even pay attention to the race time. I just go the first lap to get the best result and if it is bad after the first lap I just restart the trial and go again. I'll try to work on the race times as soon as I beat Al in Porto Cora lap times... I mean... if that's possible:P
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the first lap is usually not the fastest lap unless one is using the cheat of running back along the track before crossing the start line and taking a run up to get a moving start instead of a stationary start. a time achieved in that way does not count. if you are going for the fastest possible lap, you should be running the full race. who knows but what you may already be able to beat Al! ;)
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I know that the first lap is not the fastest one but I don't have much time to play the game so I don't even bother to go full races:) What is more, I don't use any cheats. I start normally with getting the boost by keeping my engine working so that the start is abrupt and sharp. That's all. I hope it is not considered as cheating? I guess I will try to follow your advice and go full races tomorrow because I really want to be first on Porto Cora.... and Hi-Fumii:P But I wonder if I can achieve it with the first lap... which, as U say, is not the fastest:)
Hmmm, If all you do is start lap after lap then flying full races is the faster way to do so anyway, isn`t it? ;-) It should also help you get more consistent.
I even try not to restart races after hitting a wall or doing any other mistake, since this gives me a better overall feel of consistent flight, which in turn is good to get closer to the "zone" (funny that; I never even played zone mode *g*). Anyway, this is clearly nothing more than a personal preference.
Oh, and congrats to your great time, QOORA! :)
Ben
I do the same G'Kyl, I mean to restart every race after a close encounter with a wall (and I don't mean wall scraping). It's kinda annoying IMO....but it pays back with 5PL's in a row if everything goes well. But still, the most frustrating thing about flying Icaras (to me of course) is when I fly perfectly, fast, and all of sudden there is no acceleration anymore, though I kick her in the guts with full power. Of course there still is some hyperthrust to speed the machine up, but the shields do not last forever. Hopefully these kind of situations happen not as often as I'd fly in venom or vector (greetings to all who acctually beat the records in lower classes than phantom! :) ). Well anyways, congrats with your new record, and now, since you beat me, you can count on some real competition (i ain't gonna give up so easy). Cheers!
Incidentally, a single lap time is invalid if the rest of the race has not been completed.
i.e. you get a good time using up all your thrust on lap two, but get eliminated on lap three because you had no shields left, then your fastest time is invalid.
A time is only valid if it's viewable through the records option from the in game menu.
if you got eliminated then it wont be there...
Right, that`s the other reason I don`t give up after one bad lap. I`d rather save one turbo and attempt a single lap instead of a race record. Lap records hardly happen when you`re on the two-turbos-a-lap strategy with the quirex, mind you. :) So there`s a chance to try beating new records on both fields.
Ben
Yeah, I am aware of what U mean. Finishing the race after getting a good first lap is not a problem though. It is just the case that other laps have pathetic times around 30seconds or something like that coz I use the brakes and fly like a lady untill I get to the pit stop so as not to destroy the ship:) I don't simply care about times of other laps when I race for one best lap only. I will try to have all laps with time around 20 - 25 seconds when I will race for the whole race time:)
Oh, and one more thing. U don't need to use up Ur entire shield to get under 18. At least that's what I've noticed:)
As for trying to get the best lap time on the first lap or on any other I guess it is a matter of preference. If U try do it on Ur first lap it is much more difficult but still it can be done:)
PS At the moment I have much too work on my hands but next week when I have some more free time I will try to beat the first time in the table:) Geez, that's gonna be tough:P
QOORA, you race for fast lap times and ignore race time completely, I like that! :-) Even though I developed a slight interest in decent race times due to the competition over the 2097 records, I also tend to look for THE perfect lap, not so much for the perfect race.
By the way, I just realized that we're on the WO3SE-board here, so I just wanted to add that I am of course aware of the fact "that two turbos per lap strategy" only applies to pre WO3-Wipeouts. :)
Ben
Thats's true G'Kyl - I race for fast lap times and ignore race time completely at the moment:) When I know that I screwed up my first lap why should I continue the race?? It is nonsensical, because at the moment I only aim ta THE fastest lap and not THE race time. I guess we both think alike as far as THE best laps ar concerned:)
As soon as I manage to get the first time on Porto Cora (but will I????:) I will try to get the best time for the whole race:) As simple as that:)
Oh, and I also want 2 achieve something on Hi - Fumii since I love that course:)
My brother in mind! *g* Everybody here seems to aim race records (which isn't a bad thing, of course! :) ), so I find your attitude rather refreshing.
Anyway, maybe you should still try completing the race for all the reasons mentioned above. After all, having a flying start into a new lap certainly WILL make you gain faster times!
EDIT: Forgot something.
I do not mean to argue about this rule, Infox, but wouldn't it be OK to call any lap time achieved in the game, whether it appears in the record tables or not, valid? I mean, anyone who is able to do good enough on one lap to make it into the WOZ tables can surely finish the race without hitting a wall or badly bottoming out during the rest of the race (by keeping both shoulder buttons pressed if neccessary).Quote:
Originally Posted by infoxicated
Ben
That's why I give no value to lap records. I've tried once or twice wasting races for the good of a single lap. Lap times can be lowered this way but I can't get to enjoy it.
Race times are the ones to be used for comparing pilots, specially with the drain shield turbo system in 3. In 2097, thogh, it is more even. You cannot prepare for a single lap (only maybe save a turbo until the start line in hope of getting more turbos during that same lap and using them).
I do complete races if I have a very good first lap but it is just that I don't pay attention to the times of these laps:) As for Ur suggestions I think I'll try to fight for better time with the flying start but first I really want to prove myself that it's possible to get better time then 17.92 with a stationary start:) If I manage to do it... then I'll go in for a flying start:)
EDIT
Xeik - I don't agree wiv U... at least not completely:) Yes, race times are good and important but they are easier to achieve than one great lap. Why? It's simply because even U have only one lap wiv a little bit worse time U can still make up 4 it in the next lap. That's especially true 4 W3 SE. Yes, getting best race times takes more time than getting THE lap but is easier IMHO. At least I find it easier.
As for one great lap U need 2 put all effort and skill so that all elements of the lap go together and give U a satisfactory result. U screw up one moment and U can say Ur record good bye. That's frustrating. To get a fantastic lap time U must aim at perfection and to get a fantastic race time U need to aim at luck and consistency. I opt for perfection and that's why 4 the time being it is lap times that I am concerned wiv:)
Take Senna for example. He didn't have such a great quota of races driven/races won like Schumacher or others, yet he, being able to pack up all his skills for this one decisive lap, is still being remembered as the best qualifying driver ever. It's kinda like that for me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xEik
Ben
Xeik - read my edit in the above post:)
G'Kyl... we really are brothers in mind :D I go along with Ur vein of thinking:)
I prefer pilots like Mick Doohan. He would sometimes make a crap start. Pass in number 12 position after first lap. But he would show his superiority lap after lap and in less than ten laps you had him bitting the tyre of the pilot in first position. After twenty laps he was in first place having left the second pilot far behind eating dust.
I know I've cheered Alex Crivillé (Catalan pilot) when they were rivals. But I also know that Mick was the best of those two.
Actually, watching real racing I also prefer the kind of pilots who are able to steadily improve on their position during the race, if only for the fact that these pilots usually deliver the most exciting of races. When playing Wipeout things tend to be a little different for me, though. Just don't ask me why this is so. ;)
Ben
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QOORA, you cannot make up for a mistake in one lap by doing better on the next lap; to achieve a RACE record requires your absolute best on EVery lap, not just one. if i make one mistake in a five lap Phantom class race, just one mistake, it costs me the race record. you try beating Arnaud or Al or Mano by making up for a mistake on one lap by doing better on the others. not going to happen. you must do the best you are capable of on every lap to equal or exceed their achievements. this is why most people regard overall race times as more important than lap times even though lap records often come in the same race as overall race records.
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as far as the validity of a time achieved by running only the first lap goes, it doesn't have any. the game is not structured that way and it will not even record the time. you cannot assume that you would be able to finish the race; you must finish the race to have a valid time. Wipeout is not a hillclimb nor a drag race. for those types of competition, it would be entirely valid to concentrate on that one completion of the track, but in Wipeout and all other circuit racing, there is more than one lap to be done. concentrating on only the first of the laps is just practice at getting a good start for the race; if you can do it during a race it counts, but if you can't, it doesn't. it may and probably is a lot of fun, but an incomplete race, which is what a first lap is, should not be entered as a record because it is not recorded in the game and there are no stats kept for it in the records tables, either.
Wait a sec Lance! Now U r being unfair towards me! And I don't know why.
First thing off. U CAN make up for a mistake in other laps. By mistake I don't mean hitting a wall head - on but, for example, failing to land in a given place after a big jump. This may take, for instance, one second from my overall race time but if I do good in the next lap I can make the loss smaller by , say, half a second. And it does count at the end of the race. However, I haven't yet tried to go for extremely good race times because a) I have had W3 SE for 4 or 5 days now, b) I am concentrating now on beating Al's time on Porto Cora.
Ok, and now as for the second part of Ur answer.
Why, when I got my time under 18 seconds, U r unfair towards me?? Look, I am a newbe here and before I started struggling for the record I asked about the rules!! It is in the topic SOME NEW RECORDS. And it was YOU who answered me. U wrote that everything is explained on the top page and gave some information as well. I read and followed all of the posted rules and there was NOTHING about finishing full races when fighting for the best lap time. What is more, U said, that U trust ppl from that forum and I don't need to give U any physical evidence of my result. And I didn't. But I will tell U how it looked like. I just borrowed the game from my friend along wiv his memory card. I don't have PSX and memory card for PSX so I had to use his but he asked me not to save anything on his memory card. That is why I wasn't even able to save the record and I won't save any future records before I give the game back to him. And what?? Does that mean that if I don't record the results they are invalid?? They are non - existant and what I saw is the Matrix, right?? Forgive me, but that is just plain stupid. I will even give U an example to prove my point! Imagine I beat the record lap time at one moment when everybody was able to see at but just after a second the ceiling cracked and fell down killing me and destroyung the console on the spot;) What then? After all, it is not the file on the memory card that counts but the fair achievement.
Besides, there are different tables for Race Times and Laps!!! Geez, my interpretation of that is obvious: Lap Times - for the fastets laps achieved in any way and without cheating, Race Times - for the fastest laps achieved in any way and without cheating.
And mind U, getting under 18 in the first lap is more difficult than in the second or third lap.
Oh, and one more thing. I was almost sure that some ppl will try to question my record and although I couldn't save the record onto my memory card I had my PC and TV linked so I grabbed the screens with the results and records. So if need be, I can provide U with them.
Therefore I think that my time, on which I am going to improve tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, is valid. Next time maybe U should make Ur rules more straightforward.
Easy, QOORA, Lance never meant to be rude but to explain his point of view on making up for mistakes and the validity issue.
About the latter: The thing is I agree with you, Lance. :) I would never add a record done in an incomplete race. I was just thinking that because one can be certain a good pilot will always be able to finsih a race, even this it means going as slow as the counter allows in order to not damage the shield, the record for a specific lap could be considered as reflecting in fact his or her abilities. Anyway, it was just a thought, no more.
Ben
Sorry, G'Kyl, I hope I didn't offend Lance. It was not my intention but I got a bit nervous after reading his post. If I offended anyone - sorry, forgive me.
"I would never add a record done in an incomplete race. I was just thinking that because one can be certain a good pilot will always be able to finsih a race, even this it means going as slow as the counter allows in order to not damage the shield, the record for a specific lap could be considered as reflecting in fact his or her abilities. "
I agree wiv U here, but as I can't save my results I don't care about my overall race anyways?? Once again I'd like to emphasize that it is THE FASTEST LAP that counts noe for me. I will think about races later on:)
This involves no memory card recording. Just finishing your laps. It's that easy. You note your records from the record option before shutting down the PSX and everything is OK and everyone is happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by infoxicated
"This involves no memory card recording. Just finishing your laps. It's that easy. You note your records from the record option before shutting down the PSX and everything is Ok and everyone is happy."
And this gives me what?? One moment of the result on the screen which disappears as soon as I reset or switch off the console. Great.
I don't care about other laps when I am struggling for THE one (lap). So why should I finish them?? I don't have time for that at the moment. Not to mention a logical reason.
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why would it be unfair? no one else is allowed to do it that way either.
infoxicated created this site and the records tables and the rules for all of it.
here on this thread for the third time, infox's rule:
''A time is only valid if it's viewable through the records option from the in game menu''.
this is why when you posted the lap time without a racetime, my first response was to ask where that racetime was. the need to complete the race in order to have a valid time just seemed so obvious that i guess no-one thought it needed stating. apparently it did. i'm sorry if you were mislead into thinking that your method of getting a fastest time was valid when it wasn't. i encourage you to achieve that same time or an even better one through actually completing the race, especially since the fastest possible legal laptime in Phantom class is always going to come after the first lap, which will be the slowest if you're driving with equal execution of your skills in all of them. to make such a time as you have made shows that you obviously have the skills to do well in the game.
if you want a rule change, you must change the mind of the rulemaker. my comments merely went beyond seconding the rule and explained why i think it's a good one.
you may not have a lot of time for racing, but this does not mean that it's necessary to beat a world record in the first week
[if a racer and his game console fall in a forest, does anyone hear?]
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i repeat, you can not ''make up for'' a mistake in one lap by doing better in another. there is a minimum time it takes to race around a course; every mistake adds to that time and prevents you from achieving a minimum. an absolutely perfect 4 laps following an imperfect one will not make up for, will not cancel or compensate for the time added to the minimum by a mistake. mistakes in a race cannot be undone. the best that you can do after making a mistake is to not make another.
We don't care if you care about race records (you don't even have to post them if you don't want to). The only thing we ask of you is that the lap records you post have existed in the record option at some moment (we don't even ask that you look at them there, noting them from the screen that appears after finishing the race is OK).
Posting a lap time from a race that hasn't been finished is considered unfair.
BTW, you don't need to be so defensive. We like to take things easy in these forums.
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QOORA said: ''I agree wiv U here, but as I can't save my results I don't care about my overall race anyways??''
then, as you can't save your results why do you care about any of the results? whether they are full race or one lap would make no difference. the reason you care about single lap records has nothing to do with not having your own console and memory card, does it?
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Ok, Lance. This is Ur forum and U can do whatever U want here, however, I think that invalidating my time would be extremely unfair. I followed the rules U gave me and I got that time in a FAIR way.
From what U all write finishing the race after getting the best single lap is just art for art's sake... nothing more. Does my final resul in the race influence my fastest lap somehow?? NO! So what is it for?? Sorry, but I find it nonsensical.
Ok, anyways. Why isn't that "rule" posted along with the rules for records and result tables?? It isn't there so how shoul I know something like that exists here.
"then, as you can't save your results why do you care about any of the results"
Because I know I can prove something to myself. And whether it is in the game menu is of secondary importance. I think it's self-explanatory.
PS "you may not have a lot of time for racing, but this does not mean that it's necessary to beat a world record in the first week"
Yeah, but if I can do it and I am close to it, why shouldn't I?
Hm, I think the subject is a different one than you think, QOORA. :) What Lance and xEik are saying is just that you should only enter records that were done during a full (read: completed) race. This is probably due to the fact that a player might do something (such as using up all shield energy) in this lap after which he wouldn`t be able to finsih the race anyway. You should, however, always be able to finish a race, since this is one condition which determines the basics of any Wipeout game. And only records done according to these basic rules are considered valid.
The record doesn`t have to be saved on a mem card, only be viewable on the record tables, since race and lap times only appear there when the race in which these times have been achieved were completed.
Someone please correct me if I`m wrong, but that`s how I understood the matter. :)
Ben
Ok, even if it is so as U say G'Kyl the case is that the nature of Time Trial is fightin for the best possible time and that's all. Mind U, the name of the mode is not "Time Trial Remember To Finish Your Race";P
Besides, finishing the race even if U use up Ur entire shield energy is still a piece of cake. After all U don't have to go fast, U can fly very slowly so as not to hit the wall. That's all. I just don't do it as I consider it a waste of time when my main goal is the fastest lap time.
Anyways, I didn't use up my whole shield when I got my precious 17.92 and I simply stopped so that I could grab the picture on my PC. I didn't even think about finishing the race afterwards because there is NOT such a rule posted in the record page. I simply considered it as a waste of time. I just saw that I got under 18 and that was it. For me getting the fastest lap is getting the fastest lap. As simple as that.
But sure, U can do whatever U want with that, it is Ur forum.
So I assume. But I`m afraid it`s as simple as that: The first issue has to be handled in accordance to the site rules, and the latter was already discussed with and turned down by Lance. :))Quote:
Originally Posted by QOORA
Ben
"The sites rules" which actually are not there.... Disinformation, it is called.
Ehhh, never mind. I don't want 2 argue with all of U guys. It is no use.
I described the way in which I got my time and I have a valid proof for it. Whatever U do with that is Ur bussiness. I can't change the way it is and I am not going to make U see my reason any more either. I got to know Ur rule too late but it is not my fault. Ehhh, and I don't blame U. Just forget it.
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QOORA said:''. I didn't even think about finishing the race afterwards because there is NOT such a rule posted in the record page''
one more time: lance said: ''the need to complete the race in order to have a valid time just seemed so obvious that i guess no-one thought it needed stating.''
concerning possible disallowing of a time, lance said: ''why would it be unfair? no one else is allowed to do it that way either.''
no matter when a non-valid time is posted, it's still a non-valid time. how can we make an exception for you and you alone, letting your time stand in the midst those times that followed the unstated but generally understood rule? are we supposed to send an e-mail to all the other people in that records table and say ''we're sorry, but actually your time has been beaten by a method that you all thought was illegal, so now your time doesn't really count any more.''? now that would be unfair.
the first question i asked you after looking at your new time posted in the records tables was 'where is your racetime'? why do you think i asked that? i assumed as a matter of course that any laptime would be part of a race; that's just the way the tables are done. it was not until some posts later that you let us know that there wasn't any racetime. we're not making up some arbitrary new rule to hurt you; the presence of a complete race was always assumed. as far as i know, this is the first time this particular ''can of worms'' has ever been opened. even though it had never been thought necessary to have such a rule stated, clearly the point should be addressed by now clearly stating on the rules page that any lap record must be part of a complete race. even in real life racing, competitors are not allowed to start the race multiple times, do one really hot lap, and claim that they now hold the official lap record. even though this rule was not stated, it would be grossly unfair to all the other people who posted times that were part of a complete race to allow a time that wasn't achieved in the same way. how can we fairly make an exception in this just for you?
we are not trying to hurt you; this is simply a situation that has not arisen before, and we're just trying to deal with it in as fair a way as possible. it is not your fault that you made an incorrect assumption about what is 'legal', but we still need to keep to the spirit of the competition. i'm sorry if you feel singled out for some sort of punishment. that isn't what we're trying to do. i like you. i like your enthusiasm and enjoyment of the game. i even appreciate your passionate defense of your position. in your shoes, i would probably defend my time, too. :)
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I said clearly that U should do whatever U want with that result. And I didn't ask U even once 2 make an exception for me.
BTW, If it wasn't a stated rule and "the presence of a complete race was always assumed", Your "as far as i know" may not be enough now and maybe U should e-mail all the ppl and ask them if they really followed it?? Just to be on the safe side;)
And one more thing to finish off...
Can't U see that this rule is a completely ARTIFICIAL CREATION?? What meaning does that race time have in beating lap records if U can later on fly extremely slowly just to get to the end finally without any risk?? Just tell me what is the significance of it?? It is just as if that race time was non existent and the person will forget about that pathetic race time in the menu anyways paying attention to the lap time only. For me it is just uncalled for beaurocracy. I just expressed my opinion but U don't have to agree with it. No problem.
This is just my suggestion and you can just skip it.
Greetings
Be sure, however, to post that "rule" very clearly so that other ppl are not mislead as I was. I hope this will prevent other misunderstandings of that sort in the future.
PS Don't worry. I don't think U wanted to hurt me. I just felt it was unfair and I wanted to defend my point of view. That's all. No offense:)
way and waxes absurdly philosophical:
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all rules are arbitrary; all adminstrators of rules are bureaucrats or agents of the bureaucrats. the thing that matters is the goal of the rules and the bureaucrats. in this case, it is just to ensure a ''level playing field'', that everybody plays with the same conditions so that the results are proportionate to each other, so that they can mean whatever it is that they're supposed to mean. ultimately none of them mean anything; they only have meaning for that brief time of the lives of that small part of the total population of the universe who care about them, those who derive some pride or pleasure, some shame or sorrow related to the results' supposed importance. if we look at it from this perhaps too objective point of view, then nothing would have any importance at all, but there would be no point in life if we had no passion about anything. we should be passionate, but we should never let it make us forget altogether that it is only single individuals who define importance and they only define it for themselves. everyone has their own unique definition. we should never be surprised if no one else shares our exact vision.
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[call me crazy, but i love Robert Smith's voice]
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Nice, nice, very nice indeed.. and now, please, write something to the topic, all rite? :wink:
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it is precisely to the topic.
even the robert smith part
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Oh, I see now. So I'll go for a dictionary and a book on contemporary philosophy and I'll read it again. If it still doesn't help I'll watch www.badgerbadgerbadger.com and go to sleep. Yeah, it sounds stupid to me either.
Ok, ppl... I have just slept over it, I calmed down a bit and starting from now on I am going to devote one or even two hours for my Porto Kora races so that I can get under 18 again and then go to the end of the race (which I still find extremely unfair and illogical :D " But first I am going to go and eat some brekfast :lol: If I don't manage to do it in these two hours I will try again and give one or two hours for it in the evening after my classes are finished. I still think that saying that my time is invalid is not right but to conform with Ur "rules" I won't even go to a party tonight and I will repeat my result whatsoever.... You can blame Yourselves that tonight probably I won't meet any nice chicks because I will have to spend that evening in front of my TV. Thanks a lot guys of little faith :wink:
Oh, and one more thing, if I don't manage to get such a good result again (U know, different things may happen :cry: ) I think I will either hang myself or raze that forum to the ground... or both :wink: And U'll have to pay for my Dual Shock2 as it is extremely deteriorated and I feel that with two or three more races it will go apart :wink:
So U'd better wish me luck as it is all Ur fault :wink:
Ok, when all is said and done I am going to eat now and then play some more on Porto Kora...
EDIT... Damn:( 18.10 on the first lap:( It was a bad landing after the jump:( restart:(
EDIT2 18.60 on the first lap, 18.04 on the second lap and... a crash on the third one:( DS2 suxxx and that crash doesn't prove Ur point, Lance 8)
EDIT 3 :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: No result under 18 in the morning:( Now I need to go to my classes so it is the evening that is left now for me. So no chicks today:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( Just Porto Kora :evil: