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i've posted some new times in vector and venom classes in both time trial and single race for Talon's reach and Phenitia Park. there are a few of them that you might want to do something about. :)
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i've posted some new times in vector and venom classes in both time trial and single race for Talon's reach and Phenitia Park. there are a few of them that you might want to do something about. :)
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Woo hoo! A reason for me to race Phenitia Park again. :D
It's going to take some work to beat that Vector TT time of yours, but this is definitely some work I look forward to. ;)
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well, actually i'm hoping that you can't beat that particular time. ;)
or at least that i can beat whatever you do in response.
btw, some of those new times i made with D-pad and some with neGcon
man, the three of us battling away with Qirex. this is great stuff!
i wish there were more Qirex users over on the 2097 tables so we could see how we're doing relative to them. i tried Piranha a couple of nights ago on vector class TT at Phenitia Park, and on my fourth race ever with that ship on that course got a 45.6 lap and a 1:32.2 race, which are noticeably quicker than the fastest time on those tables, so i'm thinking that NTSC might be faster than PAL for this class and track. on Talon's Reach, though, it looks like the two versions may not be far apart at all. or maybe Talon's Reach is just easier to drive, so that more difficult tracks would mostly reflect differences in skill. yep, the same old lament: i wish there were one worldwide standard version
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another new time with Qirex: Odessa Keys Vector TT :
lap 52.5
race 1:45.3
1st lap was 52.8
i noticed something i've only seen one time before on XL; it showed 52.5 as being a new lap record on this particular run, even though i already had a 52.5 from an earlier race. so the game must keep track of hundredths of a second internally and that lap on this race was just a little faster than the previous 52.5
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Sweet Jesus.
I finally got some time to do a bit of racing, so I queried the DB here for top 3, wrote down your best times for Talon's Reach, loaded up the WOXL, and tackled them.
I started with Vector TT, and I can't beat it. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong. Two totally perfect laps, using the boost near the end of the first lap and after the first turn of the second, and all I can do is match my old 1:09 time.
Congratulations Lance. I used to be able to put a good 15 minutes into a race and beat your times, but now you've totally baffled me!
Where did you find the half second to take off a Vector TT?!?
Considering that (AFAIK) I was your first serious opponent on the tables, I've kind of got this whole "The student has surpassed the master!" feeling. Simply fantastic.
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thank you, kind sir.
you were indeed my first competition companion in the WipeoutZone. and it was great fun, and really hooked me permanently on this place. you have of course noticed how closely matched we still are on those laptimes on Talon's Reach! yikes!
about the time, all i can say is that it takes absolute perfection of line on vector, having your mind in the 'zone' so that you're not distracted and have no conscious thought in your head. that is in fact my great weakness; i find it very hard to stop thinking about other things, no matter how fast the racing gets. most of the times you see in the lower classes represent a lot of work, a lot of time spent, a hell of a lot of restarts because i couldn't keep my mind on the track.
i haven't put so much effort into the Phantom class races, so you might want to go after them first. :)
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Nuh-unh. I start at the lower speed classes and only move up when I feel I have perfected the basics. The reason I don't have many good Phantom times is because I feel I'm still missing a lot in my Rapier game. I had thought that my Vector and Venoms were pretty close to perfect, and I'm happy to find out that it's just a matter of more practice and achieving even tighter perfection. It's not like I'm missing anything major, I just need a bit more focus. Very good to know.
I shall go after you at the Vector level before I proceed to even Venom, for that is my way.
I've found that the negcon doesn't help me much at the slower speeds, do you concur?
Similarly, have you found it necessary to completely stay off the walls? As in, not even the slightest amount of scraping?
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neGcon may not help as much in the lower classes, but it does help. mostly by letting you steer a really precise line. i've tried to make my line through a lap as short as possible while still going across all the speed pads. i'm not sure yet whether i should hit all the speed pads in rapier or phantom classes, but you must do it in the slower ones.
i would have thought that there should be no scraping whatever, and i generally try to do that, but yesterday after questioning Ben's 2097 Qirex lap which beat Arnaud's Piranha lap in TR Venom TT, i tried to see if it was possible and my fastest time came when i had a considerable amount of light scraping. it must be that a shorter line slightly more than compensated for the lost average speed in those spots. the whole lap felt a good deal rougher and less relaxed than my previous best had been. but it may be that i just handled the tricky bit through the S into the tunnel well enough that it made up for an actual loss elsewhere. that's the trouble in figuring out the fastest way, particularly in anything other than vector class, the consistency of performance that would let us make valid comparison's of different techniques is hard to come by. for me, anyway. my piloting is decidedly erratic
oh, one other thing: experiment with the turbos everywhere; don't get locked into a habit of using them always in the same place that seems to be the best or the logical choice. i've even used turbo in the long checkerboard tunnel on Talon's Reach.
not that that's the best thing to do ;)
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[ ] I must have been real desperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
[ ] I will try this on Phantom.
Sorry, just kidding, I couldn't resist. No offense. :-)
Ben
:) i could suggest in phanthom get the turbo when you are in the pits... ( Kamikaze way of life) :-?
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i've done that in Vector
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an update on that Vector TT time, i've cut that by another tenth to 1:08.4
the first lap was 34.8, the second 33.6
i think this time is beatable still using a Qirex. i suspect that at least another 2 tenths could come off there
also lowered my Qirex lap record to 32.2, but that particular run was only a 1:09.0 for the full race
also tried Piranha. current laptime, 30.9, racetime, 1:03.2
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Lance, why do you have to put that much pressure on me?! ;) Just one question, just so I know: Do you a lot of wall scraping or try to avoid the walls? I figured the slight speed boost you get from scraping does not compensate for the wideer line you often have to take, but I'm not entirely sure yet.
Ben
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i thought i covered that one in the post of 17 Apr 2004 20:38, but anyway, i try to avoid scraping but am only moderately successful. someone else mentioned somewhere that there can be a scrapeboost in the curves but not on the straights. i've found that to be true, but for the most part have not found the boost to be useful. but i suspect that it potentially could be if i picked the right spots and were skilled enough to avoid mucking it up.
[i also cut my lap and race times in Vector and Venom SR]
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Oh, sorry then. I remembered having read that, only thought it had been written by someone else. Well. alright, now at least I know I am on the right track in terms of driving style. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Ben
The scrape comment came from me, was a bit of a question tho.
I have found its best to use the scrape when landing from a jump (nice boost), and ending a turn (sometimes not). its a bit tricky to implement and i dont rely on them too much for my times; but lately i have been conscious about few parts of the track were its good to use scrape and mantaining the racing line and have been doing it instinctively, with a lot of mistakes of course :D
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for those of you who may be watching the documentary film, ''Lance learns to fly a Fish'' [subtitle: I Crashed a Thousand Times and Lived] here is the current report: [they get progressively worse as the speeds go up]
XL TR TT for all classes:
Vector: 30.8,1:02.8
Venom: 26.2, 1:20.2
Rapier: 17.8, 1:14.2
Phantom: 16.7, 1:29.2
except for Vector class, i've not raced SR much and it shows. here is the embarassing truth:
Vector: 31.0, 1:02.4
Venom: 26.6, 1:22.4
Rapier: 19.8, 1:26.7
Phantom: 18.8, 1:40.1
[Lance can be heard gagging in the background at the sight of that last lot]
Tune in tomorrow or whenever for the continuing stooory of...
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edit:
news flash! Lance has just lowered the XL TR TT Qirex racetime to an unbelievable 1:08.3! :roll:
[toddles off to update records]
And some improvement with the Quirex on my side (all TR TT, of course):
Rapier: 0:19.9 - 1:25.5
Phantom: 0:18.2 - 1:39.0
I KNOW it is possible to get below the 0:18.0 lap time mark with the Quirex - but I just couldn`t do it tomorrow morning.
Ben
EDIT: Huh? TOMORROW morning?`Must have still been real sleepy... Well, you guessed it; I meant THIS morning. :)
Mymymy, no wonder I didn't get a 1:17.x. ;)
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Jay, here is a further thought [or something] on neGcon vs. D-pad in slower classes. i hadn't used D-pad since a day or two after i got the neG, so i tried it again a couple of days ago to see if my racing had taught me anything and to test how much difference the controller actually makes. before i got the neGcon, i think my best time in XL TR TT was 1:11 or thereabouts, then after i got the neG i worked my posterior off and got it down to 1:09.8 and wondered how in the hell were you and George still so far ahead of me. a few weeks later, i tried again and we see the result. so after that last cut to 1:08.3 i tried the D-pad again and after 5 runs i got a 1:08.9 and clearly with more practice could lower it at least another 2 or 3 tenths. so it seems evident that most of my improvement was due to really learning the track better and just getting practicepracticepractice. however, i don't think i could ever equal the neG time with the digital, so there is still an edge to using neGcon, and it was the smoothness and precision of it that really allowed me to learn the track better. i don't think i could ever have done the 1:08.9 with a D-pad without the extensive racing with neG first. and the 'feel' of it just can't be beaten. the D-pad felt like i was stuttering, but the neGcon feels like i am singing
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well. um.... it's hard to say this without sounding like i'm bragging. i just lowered the XL TR Vector TT Qirex race record by another six tenths of a second. i can hardly believe that much was possible, but now i know from the individual laptimes done during the 10 or so attempts that at least a further tenth can be removed. my current record stands at 1:07.7 done with a 34.7 [i have done 34.6] on the first lap, and a 33.0 on the second [my 32.2 was only done on a specific attempt for best laptime].
i was feeling a little 'trudgy' after supper this evening, so i fired up the PSX in an attempt to wake up. started slow for a change in Vector. third try and i lowered the time by a tenth to 1:08.2, then next race i did the same time again. then some more attempts with the time dropping to .1, then .0
these races were done with either the first lap or the second lap being very good with the other being poor, so i knew by that time that a 1:07.6 should be possible. then about on race number 10, i got two good laps together and got the 1:07.7
but we can do better than that with Qirex. probably not just one tenth better, either, but probably below .5. i wouldn't have thought it possible before tonight, but now i believe. these times were all done without shortcuts and most definitely without turning around before the start to get a run-up to speed before triggering the timer. it is a matter of perfecting the racing line. and of course, don't forget to press the turbo button :)
i should probably write a Piloting Tip post for this ship and track and speed class. for the first time in my Wipeout career, i feel like i might actually be the right person to write a tip for a particular race. if feels damn good
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edit:23:53 local time. now 1:07.5
fastest first lap 34.3
so a 1:07.3 should be possible
edit: 1:07.4
1:07.2 is possible
yikes. after basking in the glow for a while i turned on the tv shows and there is Robert Smith and the Cure playing. and just after that the promos said that Patti Smith is going to be on the next show. what a night!
Congratulations to that new record, it`s awsome!! (Even though I believe these are not Venom times, as stated in your post. *g*) I still don`t know how I should go that fast, but believe me, I am off trying - now! :)
Ben
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oops. meant Vector. i'll edit that right now. and thanks for congrats, Ben
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edit: just checked the 2097 tables. wow, a 32 flat laptime! and a 1:08.2 racetime. congrats to you too. :)
you took 1.3 seconds off your old time.
Thanks back then. :) Race time is still faaar to high, though. I suppose I have a lot to do in terms of fine-tuning my race line. The only bright side is that I care more about lap than race records. ;)
EDIT: Well, I'm a believer now. :) That last session was one exciting hour of racing! It had me fighting for every tenth of a second as I was lowering my times step by step. 1:08.1, 1:08.0, 1:07.8, and finally 1:07.7. That's not as fast as it needs to be, I know, but it's good enough for me, for the moment anyway. After all, I really am more behind single lap than race records. Speaking of which: I lowered the first to a 0:31.9. :)
Now at least I know it's possible to move around that fast over the course. :)
It is SO helpful to have someone raise the mark for a certain track and a certain class a serious bit. Because if no one does I never know if it is possible to go faster in the first place and won't put as much effort into trying as I did just an hour or so ago. These tables are the best thing about WO after the actual games. :)
What's beyond me, though, is how I constantly do, at the classes where we had some sort of a challenge, slower race but faster lap times than you, Lance. Oh and speaking of challenges: Do you feel like going to Rapier or Phantom after finishing Vector? *g*
Ben
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hehe. well, see, i care more about racetimes than laptimes. convenient, no? i didn't even try for laptime last night. my best one during the session was 32.9 on the second lap, and best first lap was 34.3, which is how i know that 1:07.2 is possible. anyway, this may be why we split results the way we do.
hm.... 31.9, eh? hmmmmm.....
moving on? well, probably. i sure would like to do that 1:07.2 though
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Oh, did I forget to mention that after I did 1:07.7 and was about to try some quick laps, I had to go to work...? ;) I'll do some more later and try to keep you busy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Anyway, what I meant to reply to is your best first lap. Assuming 2097 and XL are compatible enough, even 1:07.0 or less should be possible, since I did a 0:34.1 on one of my first laps.
Ben
EDIT: Last update for today: 31.6 lap time. I should be able to do better, same goes for race time, but not tonight. :)
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Al says that 2097 is a little faster on Talon's reach. at least on Phantom which is the class he's raced on TR extensively with both versions of the game. i don't know if this is because of possible shortcuts due to extra floatiness [which wouldn't apply in Vector class much] or because Asayyeah's brake-tapping technique is more effective on 2097. or possibly there is a slight basic advantage on 2097. who knows? anyway, if so, it's possible i wouldn't be able to achieve quite as low a best laptime on XL, so i don't know if 1:07 flat is possible. still, i was amazed how small improvements in the execution of the ideal racing line in just one section of the track could take a full tenth of a second off the time. i also found that the exact triggering point of the turbos is not very important. i was getting the same laptimes with widely varying track positions and ship angles at the time of turbo initiation. just thinking about it theoretically, i would have thought it was very important, but in practice, it seems not
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I also thought that maybe I can go faster because of what Al said. But then again I should also be able to do faster race times, don`t you think? No, I rather believe race time records are much more your domain than it is mine. And you`re right, in Vector "sitting" on the right race line is essential to achieving low times.
I also experimented with the turbo. For the most part, I came to the same conclusion as you. With one exception: (I might as well be giving away my only chance to ever catch your record now, but anyway ;-) ...) I now hit the turbo NOT at the beginning of the front straight (or anywhere else on the track, for that matter), but right after turning the nose into the slight turn after crossing the second in-lap speed pad. For some reason I have been faster with that method than with any other. Even more surprising, this even makes you faster if, as required in order to reach best possible lap times, turbo has already been initiated shortly before the finish line. All that may be because flying this way seems to help carrying the speed gain until quite some meters after the following tight turn to the right. Maybe you could try this and tell me if you get any improvements. As I said, it works for me EVERY time.
Ben
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already did those before. that's the way i drive for best lap, piling the second turbo right on top of the first. all my XL laptimes in the tables were done with that method. there now, does that make you feel better? :D :)
as to hitting turbo just as you turn from the second boost pad, that's one of the things that didn't seem to make any difference for my time. i can hit turbo there or as soon as it appears at the start line or anywhere in between, and turn the same 34.3 first lap. btw, i am totally off my racing form today, i only equalled my current record once, and cut my best first lap to 34.2, but otherwise drove execrably. gave it up till i feel better and more focussed
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edit: next day. have now equalled your 31.6 TT lap record and dropped my racetime to 1:07.3
the 1:07.2 still eludes me.
for now :)
also noticed that George has posted a couple of new times. yaaaaaaaaay! he beat my Single Race times in Vector TR.
temporarily. :)
i've now lowered my SR laptime to 32.8 and the racetime to 1:07.6
both times done in the same race. thanks for the challenge, George; come on and beat my times again. it's about time we had some real racing going here. i hope we can get you and Jay and James all active again
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see previous post.
also lowered XL Venom TR TT lap record to 24.6 [nudges G'Kyl. nudge :) ]
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edit: oops, forgot to mention that George also took six tenths off his previous TT racetime. cool. they're chasing me down
Ouch, that`s a bad one! To have the fastest lap time taken from me... Congrats, though, really. :-)
I tried some racing this morning, but had neither the time nor the spirit to be anywhere near productive (even though I did lower my Venom TR TT race time for a tenth of a sec, but what does THAT matter ;) ).
Anyway, I might not be able to play a lot during the next couple of days. But don`t worry, I`ll get back to you! *g*
Ben
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oh, it matters; you're ahead of FIVE piranhas :D
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Congrats on all those new times Lance, heh, looks like you've been "playing" hard over the past month! :D
Sorry I haven't been here in a while, I've been real busy at work as of late, so not much time for wiping. Did manage to get in a little bit of 'leasure' racing the other day, but didn't get a chance to come here as I forgot my password (recently upgraded this computer to XP, so now I have it on both my computers).
Anyway, you'll know I'm back to racing again (at least temp.) when you see your Phenitia Park times suddenly move into 2nd place (;)) because I simply must have first place on my favorite track! :P
Looking at the times tables, I noticed your ahead of a few Piranhas yourself, Lance. Great job for the both of you! Hopefully I'll be able to get back to some real racing soon, as I know it just must be hurting you so to have your name under first place for so many of the times tables! :lol:
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the pain of being in first place is just excrUciating, i tell you. :D
i hope to see you in action on the tables soon. don't get your hopes up on getting, and retaining, first place at Phenitia Park ;)
i love that track, too.
XP.
upgrade.
oxymoron? ;)
i dislike XP. love Millennium, though.
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And one can only hope you're kidding with that statement. :lol:Quote:
love Millennium, though.
Heh, the sad thing is that this computer actually came with ME (ugh, I know). After about a week of it endlessly crashing on me, I upgraded to my old copy Windows 98.
Been wanting to get XP on this computer for a while now (love it on my other one) but money has been a bit tight.
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i'm not kidding. i detest XP. and Millennium is much superior to 98SE in memory management. 98 tends to clog up and become erratic after a day or two of use. i often had to restart just to clear out the garbage so the computer would run well again. Millennium is stable for as long as i care to run it. i've gone for more than a week, probably 10 days or so without ever having to restart. ME also has a file handling extra or two that 98 doesn't have. it takes up a bit more RAM than 98, but because the memory management is so good, i never run out of memory with multiple applications running, which used to happen to me all the time with 98
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I have to honestly say that you are the first person I have ever come across in my entire life that actually likes ME. I think even Microsoft themselves would give you a double take if you said that.
I've watched a lot of TechTV, and everytime someone who's using Windows ME needs help, and Patrick or Kevin or whoever asks them what OS they have, they always get their answer in the same way one would hear a child tell their mother, "Yes mom, I was the one who broke your priceless china collection.". It's in a voice of shame. So I know I'm not alone in my ME troubles.
Not to mention the fact that I've helped (or tried to) countless numbers of people myself with crappy Windows ME bugs.
When I had to use it, it wouldn't even start up half the time, (it'd just freeze on load) or give me some odd error message I'd have to try to find. Even when I got it to run, I couldn't run it for more than 3 or so hours before it'd just become too unstable to use anymore (usually I'd get a BSOD before then though). And that's pretty much everyone's expereince with ME.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but if you were someone who I didn't already trust, I'd have to call you out on that one. That's like saying you got a rotten wooden barrel to go 250mph up a hill, without it falling apart. :lol:Quote:
i've gone for more than a week, probably 10 days or so without ever having to restart.
ME is indeed superior to 98. I had nothing but problems before I finally decided to upgrade from 98 to XP (on my home computer aynway). However, I think XP is as much a clear step ahead of ME as the latter is one step ehead of 98, especially in terms of memory managment, and I think It`s also a little more stable. Plus, it looks better! ;) I don`t mean to spoil your favourite OS, though. :) I stuck with 98 as long as I possibly could, which was three months ago. *g*
Ben
Errr, someone up there really must be having an eye on me... After two hours of racing and not getting even close to any competetive time (I didn'd feel so good, my thoughts were anywhere but in the game) but pretty frustrated instead, I started thinking of study exams, course credits, lecturers' office times - and then did a 24.6. Don't know how, though. I'm off for a shower and work. Laters. ;)
Ben (or not quite)
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to Ben and other interested parties ;) , take a look at the XL Sagarmatha Vector and Venom TimeTrial records. [ahem... coff... *grin*]
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To Lance and other interested parties: take a look at the 2097 TR Venom TT records. *cough cough*
Sorry, I just COULDN`T resist. ;) After the bad start I had into my WO day, I just looked at that race time and fell stunned.
Too bad I will have to go to bed now. I`ll give you a run for your money at Sagarmartha tomorrow! :-)
G`Night
Ben