2.10 advert discussion, NOT a lawsuit thread.

Hi all,

today i did the fresh install (made a harddisk copy before...)
to bann Rocky 4ever. (it showed up every 2nd race,
untolerably, even without sound...)
Fury did not work after that. WO classic was ok. Besttimes/ghosts still being present.

Nothing to loose, fury has to work, too:
I went online, 2.10 installed and just when the game
wanted to load after the "update", i unplugged the network
cable crossing fingers for not being infected a 2nd time
upon startup.

Ads were gone. Rocky dead. Thx Koleax !
I now enter online via XMB, having started WO before.
Works. Throphies synched. Back to normal. No ads.

Made a new harddisk copy just in case they'd "improve"
via update.

Excellent!

That's international confirmation. Now would someone in the UK do it already?

The 'old' non-fresh install method works both online and offline for me again :+

D'oh, it didn't work before. That means it doesn't work. :-

Eh? what doesn't work? I'm lost...

For a few days with the 'old' sign in after booting (without fresh install) I got ads while in multiplayer.

Did the same today and I had no ads whatsoever. Surely that's a good sign? right?

I'm worried now...

:g

No, that's not a sign that ads are being blocked, if you did the same thing before and saw ads.

Let's go, Britons! Fresh reinstall. Do it during tea time. :coffee

i changed nothing and i am ad-free since one week..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koleax

Just building on ProblemSolver's efforts, standing on the shoulders of a giant. :) Where is he, btw? ...

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;)

Long time no post. I don't play WOHD for about five weeks now in part of some
new projects I'm running and mainly because I got bothered by the ads too much.
I'm currently at the point where I would sell WipEout HD to refund my money.
The way we got treated with all the advert crap realy breaks my heart. The only
thing that holds me up is when thinking about all the artist who have spent so
much of their time into the game, esp. Rita's work on the ZONE mode. But thanx
Koleax (and others) for trying new methods to circumvent the ads and for not
stopping to complain about the issue over here and on other messages boards. I
will try your method and the Router method tonight. I hope it works out for me
because otherwise my interest in WipEout HD will converge to zero. I'm not
willing to play a game where I got treated like a stupit customer who should eat
everything thrown upon his feets. That's not my standard.

I wanna add that since the ads appeared in WipEout HD most of my close friends
have stopped playing online. :| I really enjoyed the fun with all of them, the
game starts to slips off of our hands.... :frown:

ProblemSolver 100% with you here. I ONLY play if my close friends are on, and even then I tire quickly between ads, quakes that dont fire, leaderboards that are broken - and the newest nail in the coffin: getting thrown from games due to 'server errors' on the last 1/2 of the final lap during races. Mind you its not a psn or internet error - everything still works fine... You just keep getting booted from races. After all that I just... Meh.

oops ! i'm not on that thread ? http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7003
;)

I got another reply from Sony today. Apparently I agreed to be bound by english law when I clicked ok somewhere, so I started reading english e-marketing law. I found this :

Confidentiality of communications
6. - (1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person shall not use an electronic communications network to store information, or to gain access to information stored, in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user unless the requirements of paragraph (2) are met.

(2) The requirements are that the subscriber or user of that terminal equipment -

• (a) is provided with clear and comprehensive information about the purposes of the storage of, or access to, that information; and
  
  (b) is given the opportunity to refuse the storage of or access to that information.

(3) Where an electronic communications network is used by the same person to store or access information in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user on more than one occasion, it is sufficient for the purposes of this regulation that the requirements of paragraph (2) are met in respect of the initial use.

(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the technical storage of, or access to, information -

• (a) for the sole purpose of carrying out or facilitating the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network; or
  
  (b) where such storage or access is strictly necessary for the provision of an information society service requested by the subscriber or user.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032426.htm

Can someone please translate this into human-readable language?
Does paragraph 4 exclude paragraph 2 also, since it is dependent on paragraph 1? Gaah! My head is exploding.

Terminal equipment = your system or storage device.

The rest is about sharing stored "equipment" on shared systems.

Basically you cant. Basically, you cant even store it...unless 'they' give you permission.

Think beta rules (assuming youve ever agreed to an NDA). I dont think this has anything to do with streaming ads though.

*I think*
**edit** This is why we have lawyers (the cool kind).

I`m not sure I can accurately decode that, either, and I can`t tell how relevant it is. However, if this English law applies to you then surely it applies to both sides in the contract - it applies to whoever runs your PSN also. I guess they are saying that you clicked okay to some terms and conditions somewhere, but English law also states that such terms may be regarded as unfair if they are "enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;"

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm

None of this is going to be tested in a court and we can all look at law on the internet. I highly doubt they are standing on any firmer legal ground than you are here. Well done on getting a response. :)

@Dr Mannevond

I have no idea whether this is right, but the way I read that is like this:

No-one should be able to use the internet to store data on your PS3 unless they tell you all about it and offer you the chance to say no thanks.

If they offer you the chance once and you say yes please, then they can assume you will say yes please to it again in future and keep doing it.

The above don't apply if it's necessary to provide the service in the first place.

Hi Sat,

"the chance of saying no thanks" was similar to
asking someone if he want's to live while holding
a revolver agains his head. (ok exaggerated...:) )
If you'd say no, you'll not be able to use a basic
function of the game anymore: online playing.
Sounds a little like blackmailing, does it ?

German "Verbraucherschutz" did not answer my letter,
instead they offered me a personal answer for 15 euros.
Ha, better moneymakers than the industry !

No joke.

I think it's open to interpretation to be honest. From what I can tell, I don't think paragraph 4 applies here. The adverts aren't required for the sole purpose of the communication. 4 (b) only applies if the user has given a direct request for the information society service, which no-one here ever made. I think such a thing is meant to work the other way around anyway, i.e. a person accepts the storage based on them getting some renumeration from it. Maybe the term 'direct request' could mean different things. I reckon even the simple sounding things can probably have a completely different meaning in law.
I don't think storage of the data for the adverts complies with paragraph 2 at all. I can't remember what information was provided with the update. But I don't think it was clear and comprehensive, based on the fact that I wasn't informed I'd have information stored on my terminal device. I therefore definitely didn't have the option to decline having that data stored either, even if I did have the option to not update. Anyway, I'm not a lawboy. I'm just trying to interpret that a bit for those not as confident in their English skills to be able to crack the code. Whatever the case, it wouldn't surprise me if all this is covered (and probably negated) in some terms and conditions somewhere, which we would have found equally hard to understand, probably.

My own feedback from UK consumerdirect was:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helpful consumer direct person

In reference to your enquiry, I would be grateful if you could confirm whether you have actually purchased the game. If you have, then you may have rights against the seller under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended), which requires that goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose and as described. If you have encountered errors with the game, then the trader may be held in breach of contract and would be obliged to offer you a remedy of repair/replacement or full/partial refund depending on individual circumstances.

If this is the case, I would advise that you write a formal letter to the seller to inform them of the fault, sending the letter by recorded delivery and keeping a copy for yourself, setting out your argument in law as outlined above. You should state that you are making ‘time of the essence’ and request that they provide a repair or replacement at no added cost and within 7 working days.

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This relates to the faults in the game. There was no mention of the adverts, although I did explain that side of things. I could have asked for further help but this seems a standard enough response that I think this non-standard situation would be beyond their scope.

Quite what there is to be gained from it I don't quite know. Judging from the way things are, I suspect no-one who can reverse the decision will care. I don't think there's any way to really get the adverts withdrawn. I hope they will die naturally after a while. Maybe the fact that most are only ever seeing one ad, and that some haven't had any in a while means they're already dying. For me, I'd rather have a fully working game now. That's what I paid for and is what I used to have (at least something much closer to it). But that won't happen either. If people want their money back then the whole 'fit for purpose' argument seems to be standard. I don't know how long it counts after purchase though, and the whole internet angle makes it far too hard to know what's what.

BUT...by accepting the terms and service of the (new/old) Terms, you agree to this by default, or else you dont play online. What your reading is to [directly] deal with sharing info on the "terminal", regardless of device youre actually using. The above has nothing to do with straming ads...its about sharing info that is otherwise confidential.

Im tellin ya, mang.

That doesn't make sense. If it has nothing to do with the adverts then how can I have accepted it all in the terms and conditions? Maybe I misunderstand. I don't doubt that you're right generally though. The chances are the Ts & Cs cover all the legal stuff.

Anyway, I'm not going to speculate on it any more because I'm not qualified. But I'm still not sure it doesn't relate to this at all, as it is linked with other directives which all relate to e-commerce etc. Some of those are probably relevant. (Did I say I'd stop speculating? OK, done now).

It seems germany is now ad-free (well, wipeout ad-free lol) . I didn´t do the fresh install, but the ads are gone....there are still wonders in this world. I hope the ads never come back.