2.10 advert discussion, NOT a lawsuit thread.

Hi all,

today i did the fresh install (made a harddisk copy before...)
to bann Rocky 4ever. (it showed up every 2nd race,
untolerably, even without sound...)
Fury did not work after that. WO classic was ok. Besttimes/ghosts still being present.

Nothing to loose, fury has to work, too:
I went online, 2.10 installed and just when the game
wanted to load after the "update", i unplugged the network
cable crossing fingers for not being infected a 2nd time
upon startup.

Ads were gone. Rocky dead. Thx Koleax !
I now enter online via XMB, having started WO before.
Works. Throphies synched. Back to normal. No ads.

Made a new harddisk copy just in case they'd "improve"
via update.

Excellent!

That's international confirmation. Now would someone in the UK do it already?

The 'old' non-fresh install method works both online and offline for me again :+

D'oh, it didn't work before. That means it doesn't work. :-

Eh? what doesn't work? I'm lost...

For a few days with the 'old' sign in after booting (without fresh install) I got ads while in multiplayer.

Did the same today and I had no ads whatsoever. Surely that's a good sign? right?

I'm worried now...

:g

No, that's not a sign that ads are being blocked, if you did the same thing before and saw ads.

Let's go, Britons! Fresh reinstall. Do it during tea time. :coffee

i changed nothing and i am ad-free since one week..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koleax

Just building on ProblemSolver's efforts, standing on the shoulders of a giant. :) Where is he, btw? ...

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;)

Long time no post. I don't play WOHD for about five weeks now in part of some
new projects I'm running and mainly because I got bothered by the ads too much.
I'm currently at the point where I would sell WipEout HD to refund my money.
The way we got treated with all the advert crap realy breaks my heart. The only
thing that holds me up is when thinking about all the artist who have spent so
much of their time into the game, esp. Rita's work on the ZONE mode. But thanx
Koleax (and others) for trying new methods to circumvent the ads and for not
stopping to complain about the issue over here and on other messages boards. I
will try your method and the Router method tonight. I hope it works out for me
because otherwise my interest in WipEout HD will converge to zero. I'm not
willing to play a game where I got treated like a stupit customer who should eat
everything thrown upon his feets. That's not my standard.

I wanna add that since the ads appeared in WipEout HD most of my close friends
have stopped playing online. :| I really enjoyed the fun with all of them, the
game starts to slips off of our hands.... :frown:

ProblemSolver 100% with you here. I ONLY play if my close friends are on, and even then I tire quickly between ads, quakes that dont fire, leaderboards that are broken - and the newest nail in the coffin: getting thrown from games due to 'server errors' on the last 1/2 of the final lap during races. Mind you its not a psn or internet error - everything still works fine... You just keep getting booted from races. After all that I just... Meh.

oops ! i'm not on that thread ? http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7003
;)

I got another reply from Sony today. Apparently I agreed to be bound by english law when I clicked ok somewhere, so I started reading english e-marketing law. I found this :

Confidentiality of communications
6. - (1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person shall not use an electronic communications network to store information, or to gain access to information stored, in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user unless the requirements of paragraph (2) are met.

(2) The requirements are that the subscriber or user of that terminal equipment -

• (a) is provided with clear and comprehensive information about the purposes of the storage of, or access to, that information; and
  
  (b) is given the opportunity to refuse the storage of or access to that information.

(3) Where an electronic communications network is used by the same person to store or access information in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user on more than one occasion, it is sufficient for the purposes of this regulation that the requirements of paragraph (2) are met in respect of the initial use.

(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the technical storage of, or access to, information -

• (a) for the sole purpose of carrying out or facilitating the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network; or
  
  (b) where such storage or access is strictly necessary for the provision of an information society service requested by the subscriber or user.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032426.htm

Can someone please translate this into human-readable language?
Does paragraph 4 exclude paragraph 2 also, since it is dependent on paragraph 1? Gaah! My head is exploding.

Terminal equipment = your system or storage device.

The rest is about sharing stored "equipment" on shared systems.

Basically you cant. Basically, you cant even store it...unless 'they' give you permission.

Think beta rules (assuming youve ever agreed to an NDA). I dont think this has anything to do with streaming ads though.

*I think*
**edit** This is why we have lawyers (the cool kind).

I`m not sure I can accurately decode that, either, and I can`t tell how relevant it is. However, if this English law applies to you then surely it applies to both sides in the contract - it applies to whoever runs your PSN also. I guess they are saying that you clicked okay to some terms and conditions somewhere, but English law also states that such terms may be regarded as unfair if they are "enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;"

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm

None of this is going to be tested in a court and we can all look at law on the internet. I highly doubt they are standing on any firmer legal ground than you are here. Well done on getting a response. :)

@Dr Mannevond

I have no idea whether this is right, but the way I read that is like this:

No-one should be able to use the internet to store data on your PS3 unless they tell you all about it and offer you the chance to say no thanks.

If they offer you the chance once and you say yes please, then they can assume you will say yes please to it again in future and keep doing it.

The above don't apply if it's necessary to provide the service in the first place.

Hi Sat,

"the chance of saying no thanks" was similar to
asking someone if he want's to live while holding
a revolver agains his head. (ok exaggerated...:) )
If you'd say no, you'll not be able to use a basic
function of the game anymore: online playing.
Sounds a little like blackmailing, does it ?

German "Verbraucherschutz" did not answer my letter,
instead they offered me a personal answer for 15 euros.
Ha, better moneymakers than the industry !

No joke.

I think it's open to interpretation to be honest. From what I can tell, I don't think paragraph 4 applies here. The adverts aren't required for the sole purpose of the communication. 4 (b) only applies if the user has given a direct request for the information society service, which no-one here ever made. I think such a thing is meant to work the other way around anyway, i.e. a person accepts the storage based on them getting some renumeration from it. Maybe the term 'direct request' could mean different things. I reckon even the simple sounding things can probably have a completely different meaning in law.
I don't think storage of the data for the adverts complies with paragraph 2 at all. I can't remember what information was provided with the update. But I don't think it was clear and comprehensive, based on the fact that I wasn't informed I'd have information stored on my terminal device. I therefore definitely didn't have the option to decline having that data stored either, even if I did have the option to not update. Anyway, I'm not a lawboy. I'm just trying to interpret that a bit for those not as confident in their English skills to be able to crack the code. Whatever the case, it wouldn't surprise me if all this is covered (and probably negated) in some terms and conditions somewhere, which we would have found equally hard to understand, probably.

My own feedback from UK consumerdirect was:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helpful consumer direct person

In reference to your enquiry, I would be grateful if you could confirm whether you have actually purchased the game. If you have, then you may have rights against the seller under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended), which requires that goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose and as described. If you have encountered errors with the game, then the trader may be held in breach of contract and would be obliged to offer you a remedy of repair/replacement or full/partial refund depending on individual circumstances.

If this is the case, I would advise that you write a formal letter to the seller to inform them of the fault, sending the letter by recorded delivery and keeping a copy for yourself, setting out your argument in law as outlined above. You should state that you are making ‘time of the essence’ and request that they provide a repair or replacement at no added cost and within 7 working days.

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This relates to the faults in the game. There was no mention of the adverts, although I did explain that side of things. I could have asked for further help but this seems a standard enough response that I think this non-standard situation would be beyond their scope.

Quite what there is to be gained from it I don't quite know. Judging from the way things are, I suspect no-one who can reverse the decision will care. I don't think there's any way to really get the adverts withdrawn. I hope they will die naturally after a while. Maybe the fact that most are only ever seeing one ad, and that some haven't had any in a while means they're already dying. For me, I'd rather have a fully working game now. That's what I paid for and is what I used to have (at least something much closer to it). But that won't happen either. If people want their money back then the whole 'fit for purpose' argument seems to be standard. I don't know how long it counts after purchase though, and the whole internet angle makes it far too hard to know what's what.

BUT...by accepting the terms and service of the (new/old) Terms, you agree to this by default, or else you dont play online. What your reading is to [directly] deal with sharing info on the "terminal", regardless of device youre actually using. The above has nothing to do with straming ads...its about sharing info that is otherwise confidential.

Im tellin ya, mang.

That doesn't make sense. If it has nothing to do with the adverts then how can I have accepted it all in the terms and conditions? Maybe I misunderstand. I don't doubt that you're right generally though. The chances are the Ts & Cs cover all the legal stuff.

Anyway, I'm not going to speculate on it any more because I'm not qualified. But I'm still not sure it doesn't relate to this at all, as it is linked with other directives which all relate to e-commerce etc. Some of those are probably relevant. (Did I say I'd stop speculating? OK, done now).

It seems germany is now ad-free (well, wipeout ad-free lol) . I didn´t do the fresh install, but the ads are gone....there are still wonders in this world. I hope the ads never come back.

Denmark free at last as well (for now) :P
(For the last one and a half week that is - based on the experience of an enormous amount of 2 wipers)

They are COMING BACK.

Unless you take appropriate measures.

All it means is that no one has purchased ad space for this period of time. Or there are new holiday-themed ads on the way and they're not ready for release yet.

The ads are back... ¬_¬

Giving me 3 days without them to rise my hope...

Did you read brummpahh's post? You know what method works in Germany. :nod And probably everywhere.

I declare no more whining about ads if you haven't done a fresh reinstall and made to sure to always start the game offline.

I declare whining about the ads wouldn't be necessary if Sony showed some respect for their user base:)

Update on my ad situation. For about one week, after a two week absence, I did not see any ads. Even that I think the systems wants to display some - there is a very short stutter before the original loading screen appears. Did I change something? Well, no, besides that I did try the PSN-late-login method (and originally failed) and I stayed with this setting for manual login.

Assumption: Maybe they did change the ad roll from rocky and braveheart to something different. As I never was PSN-online when starting WOHD the new content never made it to my disk .. . Therefore no more ads - fingers crossed that they do not reactivate the existing ads that are stored locally and I do not f'up with the starting WOHD when PSN-online. So, maybe this is another indicator that the late-login method works - depending on the regional ad roll.

I haven't performed any of the voodoo to make the ads go away, but they have been gone for a few weeks now.

I'll enjoy it while it lasts!

As someone who doesn't have the internet at home and bought HD in a videogame shop, I'm puzzled by this advertisement furore.

Do they pop up while the races load, or are they on the tracks, or what's the story with them?

Its while races load, and it makes loadtimes worse.

But its not happening on every race.

I've always used manual connection to psn. But only since 2 weeks ago I'm ad-free! This is such a good feeling... :P

I havent been playing that much lately, but I do cram a session in at least a few times a week. I havent had any ads at all. I do have auto log-on enabled because I use remote play often.

So how is it that you all are getting around the adds? Signing into PSN after you load the game? I plan to boot up and finally patch so i wanna know.

Dunno what the status is on this because afaik people haven't been getting ads for the last few weeks. Probs not gone for good but I dunno what's going on.
Maybe someone else knows? :)

The ads are there yeldar :( I keep getting the Relentless one now - least it's better than that bloody annoying Fight Club one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedScar

So how is it that you all are getting around the adds? Signing into PSN after you load the game? I plan to boot up and finally patch so i wanna know.

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Yes. Immediately after you update, make sure to NEVER be online while you start the game and only go online after the intro sequence has completed, or else it will download ads and save them to your disk.

for all the BS and commotion about them, I have ironically never seen one yet since I've been able to play online during my winter break from school.

I feel like I might be pushing my luck by posting about it, and I've probably jinxed myself now :P But really, should I have seen one by this point or do they not show up in US consoles?


...(Knock on wood)

I still get the occasional advert. The most frequent being an advert for some deodorant/energy drink that I can quite see properly so I can't actually tell what it is. The logo is also quite small and intricate so I don't even know what brand it is.

I haven't played WipEout since last week so I don't know if it's still there, though. There did seem to be less adverts which was good, but I can't say anything for certain.

I'm in Canada and have only seen one ad. It was a trailer for the movie "Armored." I started seeing it around the middle of November right up until it hit theaters Dec 2, now nothing. I presume Sony hasn't been able to secure anymore advertising deals, rather than simply deciding to pull the ads.

Frankly I question the effectiveness of such advertising, after seeing that trailer 50+ times the last thing I wanted to do was go see the movie.

Yes, we do get adverts occasionally.

Amorbis, It`s Relentless, an energy drink.;)

stevie:)

I haven't started WO whilst being signed in since about 2 weeks after the ads were introduced.
I dunno if ads would still be there if I signed in before starting WO, not really willing to risk it though :P

:g