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Hey guys, no need to fire any weapons there, as challenger misunderstood your post Jav. You guys are both zone battles player, so everything’s good!
Reading your posts guys, maybe we could go on with the obligation to pick at least one race in your 3 choices (so a limitation of 2 zone battles). Let me know guys if you’re ok with that, or if we’re staying with 3 choices without any restrictions.
Ah R3BU5ER, green lol. Well, we had lots of heated discussions on that matter recently, and as far as I know, every pilot who tried this custom setting had lots of fun. As you’re constantly absorbing the weapons, you’re quickly ending with a turbo, so I believe it’s a fair setting. The difference during green races are made with the use of turbo at strategic points IMO. Anyway, feel free to share your thoughts about that too with us here.
I'll play, count me in.
Received a PSN Message from R3BU5ER, you can count me in.
Apologies to Jav - I didn't understand you. I meant no offence. :paperbag
And apologies to you, for overreacting. Looking back at it, a simple "I think you misunderstood me, check my other post" would've done the job.
:)
Well Kanar, I understand what you are saying, but exactly the same can be said About Ã* normal single race. Only then, the competitors have the choise to shoot the boost-picker with Ã* missile, rockets, quake or whatever. I have nothing against the green league at all, I Just don't think it's suitable for Ã* important competition like this. On the second hand i bet there are competitors
That aren't even familiar with the green concept, I think the green league should stay on itself en shouldn't be integrated in Ã* tourey like this. No offence, Just my 2 cents.
I guess ill be training anulpha rapier and some ZB then :)
Also i'd like to credit R3BU5ER for getting me into all this, i think ill forgive him :)
Just got a PSN message from ONlocke. Count me in.:)
Lol Jan, I'm glad I have Ã* Dutch homie to practice some online rampage with. I was getting Ã* little loneley between all the French, German and English ;) No...really glad you joined ouwe!
R3BU5ER that's cool, and that's nice to share our thoughts on that matter Tbh, I'm pretty sure green races won't be the favourite choice during this cup. Most of the people are even not aware about this custom mode lol. So it's not a big deal IMO. Mate maybe we should play some green races together lol, so you could see by yourself it's a fair way to race too. Just imagine a set of rocket in your ass, or a respawn. So a single boost late in green race sounds pretty fair compared to that eh?
ACTUAL DISCUSSIONS :
-Total free choice or restriction to 2 ZB max for each opponent
-Green or not Green
these are the questions atm lol.
The Wipeout HD cup
"For the record"
ALL INFOS/RESERVATIONS HERE
Green races - I'm not completely against or completely for it, as I don't have enough experience with it. Maybe some practice green races with two players could be done as an experiment. It might be quite different in only a two player race compared to a fuller room. I've only done them in half full rooms ages ago but if I didn't get a boost it did feel like a massive let down sometimes. I felt quite reliant on it as my one way to have a chance. I don't think it's a less fair way to do it, as both competitors are exposed to the same level of chance, but I think in general people would feel it was less fair.
You could take separate polls on these things. But really you'd want a poll of the participants and not just a normal open poll.
As for the zone battle thing - you could just say that both players have to pick at least two different modes. That way no-one could pick three normal weapons on single races either. It might feel a little less like it was against zone battle that way, and guarantees at least a little variation in every match, which is probably a good idea if it's aimed at the best all around player, because they could otherwise get a route through the tournament where they only ever played weps on races, just by chance.
Mmm. I think we can definitely go with that. By modes, you mean single race weapons, single race no weapons, and zone battle, right? If you guys are ok, we'll validate this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnReturn
As for green races, let's say it's pending status for now, and still open for further discussions. As we're 2 on the track, IMO I believe turbo item won't be an issue. But as I said, I'm really open to any point of view. Try it & report any issue with it.
Ey that's smart thinking there saturn, I think that solves everything.
Just at least 2 different races, for example 1: no wep 2: no wep 3:wep, ZB, or (green)....right.? I'm totally in :)
Yes guys, that's exactly what I meant. I suppose the question is then only whether endurance is a mode and what it is defined as. At the moment I think number of laps is free choice, but if endurance were to be considered a separate mode then the minimum number of laps would have to be defined, or we would maybe have to say that number of laps doesn't make something a different mode.
EDIT: I suppose it's also worth considering whether a different speed class would count as a different 'mode'. I think maybe it should, because it's difficult to be a specialist of all speed classes and introduces variation as well. If so then perhaps a statement such as, "Each player has the choice of settings for three races. Of these three races, no more than two may have identical settings." Then you could define what the settings would be, e.g. single race, zone battle, weapons on/off, barrel rolls on/off, 5 laps (standard race), 15 - 20 laps (endurance race), speed class etc....Something like that.
Oh yeah... Also that! I was assuming that would be 5 anyway...
I forgot Kanar, I suppose ur right About not many people choosing for green, got Ã* point there!
But I still think it's questionable :p
Not my choise though :) good night guys :)
I think if you have too many choices it's going to complicate things unnecessarily, especially with so many pilots racing.
The format really needs to be set in stone before any further promotion is begun, and only to use the options that are available when selecting tracks on the online board, so for me Green Races should be out only because it is not a standard type of race selection known by everybody.
My suggestion is each player has to pick and host a track for one weapon on [any speed], one weapon off [any speed] and one zone battle track [the organizing committee should decide a fair max number of zones, as this mode is rarely played by most]
Only if neither pilots want to play zone battle, then they each get to replace what would of been zone battle with a 3rd choice of track/class/weapon on or off.
This should give a fair representation of any particular pilots skills, as it gives them the best options to select what they feel comfortable with, as we all know some specialize at specific speed classes, and make themselves equally as worthy as elite phantom pilots, and just as hard to beat.
The 7th track remains the same Rapier/ Weapons on/ Anulpa Forward.
What you want to do if pilot assist is asked for, I say let them use it if they want to, as we old timers know it slows you down, so it's not really going to be an advantage to anybody that needs it.
ohh yea you know im in
ill fly till they ship can fly any more or there isnt enough bood pulsing through me to hit the accelerator
I think going from allowing 3 ZBs to allowing just 1 is a bit radical. If 2 of 3 races are going to have to be single races, 5 of 7 plays will be single races. The better single racer has a huge chance of winning that.
Here's what I suggest. You basically only have 2 options:
Racer set-up
Single Race - Weapons ON - Track A
Single Race - Weapons OFF - Track B
Zone Battle - Track C
or
Zoner set-up
Single Race - Weapons ON/OFF - Track A
Zone Battle - Track B
Zone Battle - Track C
Let's go through all 3 possible match-ups:
Racer vs. Racer
You will have 5 single races and 2 zone battles. That's fair, I think, since it's a racer vs. racer match-up. The mode they both like most is played 5 out of 7 times, but they do need to show a bit of their Zone skills in the remaining 2. Well balanced, no?
Racer vs. Zoner
In this one you get 3 zone battles and 3 races during regular play. Then if it is undecided, the game goes to a deciding race on Anulpha Pass. Still, Anulpha Pass isn't a particularly hard track (in fact, the easiest) and I'm sure every Zoner knows their way around Anulpha. ;) So if it should end 3-3 it will be a pretty fair deciding race.
Zoner vs. Zoner
Here we have 4 zone battles and 2 races during regular play. Meaning the zoners can play their beloved game mode but they do need to play at least 2, and if it is then still undecided, 3 single races.
Every 'set-up' needs to contain 3 different tracks [A, B, C]. Player 1's choice of tracks is irrelevant to player 2's choices. This means player 2 can also pick [A, B, C] if he wants to. But a combination [A, C, E] or 3 whole new tracks [D, E, F] is of course allowed. The ONLY condition is that every player picks 3 different tracks.
A player is not stuck to the 'pack' for the whole tournament. Rather, the player chooses the set-up he wants for that particular match. This means you can switch between Racer and Zoner during the tournament. Of course, you're not stuck to the tracks you choose either.
Finally, indeed, this means that players who do not have Fury cannot participate. But I think there's no other way. If the non-Fury players were to be allowed into the tourny, there would be match-ups in which solely single races are played, and no ZBs at all. Sorry, but I'm sure we all want a bit of diversity. 7 single races is simply too tedious.
In that case, because of the exclusion of the non-Fury pilots, I think we should aim for 128 players.
Feel free to comment on this proposal...
I understand what you are trying to say Jav, but truly, I do not see the point, so let me get this straight:
Old rules:
Racer Vs Racer: 7 single races <---------- (If they really want to)
Zoner Vs Zoner: 6 zone battles and 1 single race <---------- (Again, if they really want to)
Racer Vs Zoner: 4 single races and 3 zone battles
Your rules:
Racer Vs Racer: 5 single races and 2 zone battles <---------- (If these guys want to play 7 single races, why shouldn't they be able to?)
Zoner Vs Zoner: 3 single races and 4 zone battles <---------- (If these guys want to play 6 zone battles and 1 single race, why shouldn't they be able to?)
Racer Vs Zoner: 4 single races and 3 zone battles <---------- (See any similarity with the old rules?)
If I understood your rules correctly, this is what I get.
As I said, I understand what you are trying to do, but it just doesn't work for me. The result of doing it your way would simply be; to force diversity into other peoples games, when they can have more fun by deciding what to play themselves.
Only good thing I see from it, is that the racers would get some much needed zone battle practice. :P
Just my 5 cents.
I see your point about people who don't have the Fury DLC obviously not being able to play in ZB races, but I don't think they should be denied a chance to play in the WC based solely on that reason, mainly because ZB is played by so few who do have Fury anyway.
We could stipulate in the promotion that it is strongly recommended that anybody wishing to enter the WC have the Fury DLC, so that if the opponent they are drawn against requests ZB as their selection, then they are obliged to either get the Fury DLC and compete or forfeit those races.
There's two decisions we could make with this that would make matters clear cut.
1] At least one Zone Battle race is to be selected and raced by each player [no opting out of this] = Fury DLC required for entry.
Problem arises when neither player likes ZB, which I can see happening quite a bit, plus it would deter possible entry into the tournament from people who read that they have to race at least 2 ZB races when it this race mode holds no interest for them, or they don't have or want to get the Fury DLC.
So basically IMHO it's a bad call if you want to attract pilots into the WC by making ZB mandatory or Fury DLC ownership for that matter.
2]Then you have the more relaxed option, if you can race Zone Battle at the request of your drawn opponent then you are obliged to accept the challenge.
Same goes for Fury tracks generally, if you draw somebody who doesn't have the pack but your choice was from it, well tough luck, plenty of other HD tracks to choose from.
Most people will have Fury anyway, so I think it would be very rare for this problem to occur, plus we are not alienating potential contestants from the start by making the tournament more relaxed in structure.
wooo count me in!
I missed the Avalon Cup but i would love to take part in this,so count me in!
Already told you on WOArena, but count me in too Kanar please :rock
@blackwiggle :
lol i forgot that everybody didn't purchased the fury dlc !
But it gave me an idea :
when you meet an opponent with fury, you should be able to choose zb, eliminator or detonator mode, and if you (or your opponent) only own HD, you should be able to select zone, sl or tt mode (for the proof it's easy to send at your adversary through psn an ingame picture with hud activated for zone or sl mode, for tt or detonator i have no idea yet). about offline modes it can be possible for the opponents to start together and to decide of a time like 15 mn session or something. Well i don't know if it's possible to organize but it can add variety and attract people that like essentially offline modes (wowo's idea :P), and also make some to race some mode they never do and to give more chances at those who're better at some modes than in multiplayer races.
Of course half of the challenge will be classic online races (or tournament) but to make a grand final we must try to use the game at his full potential, no ? :)
!!!!
Goooood morning guys. First and foremost, wanted to say :rock:rock:rock.
90 reservations in one week. That's just completely nut. Big thanks to all, I've no words for that... Just awesome!
Regarding the issues discussed above :P; TBH all your inputs guys are really great, there's tons of good ideas that we could try, but if you're checking the reservation list, you can easily imagine great but complicated rules couldn't be applied.
As Blackwiggle said, the format really needs to be set in stone quickly. Saaadly we don't have wipeout HD TV to relay our talks here, or detailed/elaborated/stratified rules. So I'm going to stay UBER simple and go with Saturn here :
-Both players have to pick at least two different modes (modes are single race weapons, single race no weapons, zone battle).
BUT
Here are the "hidden rules" :P
If the 2 opponents are reaching a common agreement : They can pick WHATEVER they want. Green races is going to hidden rules too.
Even wanted to add an easter egg to that like "In case of draw before round 7, and if the opponents are both owning the Blur game, they can play their last round on this game" :P... But I think it's too much ah ah.
The Wipeout HD cup
"For the record"
ALL INFOS/RESERVATIONS HERE
Good morning there :)
I agree Kanar, I think the rules are properly settled now.
Gor a message from a new competitor: 'fabimus' is in! :)
And 'valy91' also in, whoei! :)
ok just wanted to tease you guys a little bit, but JJPAP's revelation teaser is OUTSTANDING. Stay tuned for the upcoming link :rock:rock:rock, should be available in a few hours!
kanar you tease!
Don't wait too long though! I'm off to work in a couple of hours.
They shouldn't be able to because I thought we had all agreed on the fact we wanted to reward the all-round pilots? :| In my set-up you need to be able to perform in both game modes. Also, I would like to point out a difference in the Racer vs. Zoner one. It may look the same but it isn't. In "my" rules the Zoner picks 2 ZB tracks and 1 race track. He will most likely pick his best race track and so he has a chance of winning it. The racer will also pick his favourite ZB map so that he also has a chance of winning it. In the old rules however, the ZB would pick 3 ZB tracks and the racer would pick his 3 race tracks, making it harder for the Zoner to win a race (and vica versa) because it may not be his favourite race track. In my rules it's more balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by ONlock
It is balanced, it's fair, it's all-round and most of all, it's simple. YES there is gonna a lot of Racer vs. Racer match-ups but they should at least have to play Zone Battle so that being all-round would be rewarded, right? I thought that much was clear.
But apparently not. I can't say I'm feeling a lot of sympathy from you guys for the Zone Battle mode in general. I ask all of you, do we want to reward all-round players? Because you might as well scrap ZB entirely if the answer to that is no.
Kanar:
By seeing Weapons ON and Weapons OFF as two different modes, you can have a 7-race match-up. If that's really what you want to allow, then okay. Also, 'racers' have the advantage in this scenario: 3 races is possible but 3 zone battles is not.
Sooo... we go from agreeing on the fact we want to reward all-round pilots, to a potential 7-race match-up.
All that within just 24 hours... :rolleyes:
Make it:
Both players have to pick at least two different modes, the modes being:
Single Race
Zone Battle
it's up to JJPAP, soooorry, as it's on a private webpage for now lol. Oh, ONE MORE NEWS :
Back from his retirement and his apartment on Moa, The EXTREME Shortcut Master is IN. The guy who found most of the secrets of HD is IN.
PIRHAPAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this line up is ****ing AMAZING.
EDIT : Jav just saw your post right now after posting mine, I'll read that in a bit as I'm currently on my lunch break. SOooo, BRB ah ah
BACK.
Well. In my mind, here are the actual settings :
If you & your opponent are agreeing on your 6 choices, during the 72h information exchange delay
====> you're free to play whatever you want. (play wipeout hd please though)
If you & your opponent are not agreeing on your 6 choices, during the 72h information exchange delay
====>you guys must choose at least 2 different modes. (by modes I mean weapons/no weapons/zone battle)
So here, I'm admitting this cup is going to be a bit single race oriented, as there will be an inevitable limitation to 2 zone battles (in the worst case). But Fury isn't a requirement anyway, so there's some kind of justification here about the max 2 ZB limitation (in the worst case the 2 opponents don't agree on anything)
The WipEout HD Cup (We can dance - if you want to?) will be up for anybody by tonight the latest.
Working on some minor details.
Hmmm, it sounds decent but here's my what I think. Communication should not play a part in deciding the rules, because of this:Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar
SO OFTEN (I have experienced this with other games a lot and it's really annoying), you try to communicate with your opponent, but he just won't reply, or he will take ages to. Communication can really delay the whole tournament. That's why I'm not a big fan of big tournys with a lot of players involved you don't know well. It usually goes like this:
Me: Hey, looks like you'll be my next opponent! :) When are you available?
Me: Yo?
(3 days later)
Player B: yo eh sry man I been away, how about tomorrow afternoon man, see you then peace lol
Me: Huh? What time zon-
*Player B has gone offline*
Me: ARGH. What time zone are you in? When can you play? And we haven't even agreed on what modes and tracks? :?
(2 days later)
Player B: yo where were you man, I said yesterday afternoon and you didnt show up pfft. Jeeeez man
Me: What?! I tried to set this race up when you suddenly went offl-
*Player B has gone offline*
Me: I give up.
--------------------------
Just saying... Past experiences have taught me that it usually doesn't work. But hey, it could be different this time... I hope.
I can really understand your concerns jav, but I must say, I've never met such polite, cool and trustable players in any game (online). As in wipeout. Really. I think rverybody who participates is really going for this, so don't worrie mate, do not jet bring up the problems where there ain't none. :)
totally agree there Jav, as we're currently experiencing these kind of situations at the avalon cup (well at least we had minor issues, & currently working on the Falcopelle case, I promise KGB, tonight). So that's why we'll be UBER STRICTS with the 72h information exchange delay. We MUST have a strong cup community manager crew, in order to report any troubleshootings with this so important rule. 72h in order to set 6 choices, agree on all of them without restrictions, or finally go with the default settings (2 different modes obligation)
I know we'll have to adopt a raptor-style for the cup community managing, smelling any MIA pilots at a long distance lol. But we're already 26 at the command center working on this cup, I should find a good crew of cup community managers.
27 now, as you joined lol.
Nice to know others have these concerns too. And thanks for letting me in :) Yep, I think being very strict is the way to go then. If a player is not active, it should be reported immediately. There should be 2 or 3 (maybe 4) people who can be messaged to report such things. Community managers, like you said.
Everyone needs to know that communication should be as clear as possible. So when messaging your upcoming opponent, mention the time zone you're in, mention when you're available, mention what your preferred modes and tracks are. We will want communication to play a minimal role before the games so it should all happen very swiftly. 2-3 messages should be enough.
After all there's nothing quite as annoying as an inactive opponent.
Who gets wipeout and doesn't get FURY>? face palm right there.:|
I can guarantee that 100% of the people on these forums have got fury.
Rob doesn't have it:P
The Wipeout HD cup
"For the record"
ALL INFOS/RESERVATIONS HERE
Ok, make it info needed to enter the cup.
1]PSN ID * &/ or Forum you saw invite/applied to join from[that's if we are going down this route, makes it easier to trace recalcitrant pilots ]
2] Country of origin* and time difference from GMT*
3]Availability to race or days that can NOT race, in GMT*
4]How did you find out about the WC/who invited you?
5]Somebody else who is on your friends list who is either involved with the WC or invited you, and can contact you if needed to inform you of your race opponent draw & race schedule if needed.*
Maybe?
But I don't really see the point.
6]Preferred race type/speed class
* donates must have info