Doubles league again anyone?

XPand kind of has a season doesn't it? Could operate outside of that. I think it also has the element that teams can play any time for a kind of perpetual ranking, IIRC. Probably don't RC though.:lol

I remember doubles being reasonably easy to organise, although in fairness TCK did most of it after the first few matches. But XPand was a pain because people seemed to have lost interest. It usually ended up being doubles races most of the time anyway, due to availability and the fact that there were some teams with only two players anyway. That's really the key - people just need to think before they sign up and make sure they'll participate and are willing to organise.

Another option - do doubles for a certain period. Then join up doubles teams based on their final positions at the end of that period to make XPand teams so that you have very balanced XPand teams and people can race with new folk and get to know people they wouldn't normally talk to. (Yeah I know, no-one will like this option).

One more option ( I most like this one) - don't predefine teams at all. Just do weekly doubles events like the ASTRAL events used to be. Everyone signs up ahead and is paired up. Up to say, 16 players total? They race in two pools, and then do a winner's pool and, er, not-quite-as-win-ers pool based on final positions in the first round. Basically ASTRAL but with doubles. Maybe that's what kaori was getting at earlier? I seriously think the less organisation the better, and that way people wouldn't have to commit to a long term league either. If they do two races and then can't be arsed, then it can all just roll on without them. It'll be a whole different thing each week too - less predictable. You could always do it for a month and then get the top 8 players to face off in two doubles semi-finals and a final, or something like that.

Ooh I like the ASTRAL one, I miss ASTRAL.

Then we could have a really complicated system whereby pairs are chosen at random from the group who sign up, then have a breakdown of individual players' records in a kinda "how good a team player are they" league table, then have a big event at the end (whenever that is) where the 8-16 top players of the league have an epic doubles mashup, then send the winners a trophy or give them a voucher for a romantic trip for two....in Skegness ^_^

This is what happens when you have nothing to do all day except think and talk to your animals.

*Ignore all the above, I'll be happy whatever happens (although I do like the ASTRAL one) :beer

Seeing as KIGO has his PS3 back, I have made other arrangments to join with another partner ;). He has not joined the forum yet but will do soon :D. Will let you know the team as soon as possible OBH!

We're up for it, so sign us up OBH.

Team: Dark_Phantom_89 & Woopzilla

Team name not thought of yet.

Team: LurifaxFlux & DreamyElf :)

This seems to be spiraling out of control somewhat now, no? I mean, aren't we supposed to be re-inventing this league into something simpler that will make folks want to join up and stay interested? Because many of the scoring systems/rules/formats that are being considered so far have been complex and confusing (to me, anyway), with some even leading to what was once intended to be a team-driven doubles league turning into anything but. Crikey, after reading Saturn's proposals I felt like curling up in the fetal position and crying to mommy. :P No set teams? Random teams instead? That would mean no amusing team names, no strategizing, less camaraderie and no rivalries. And if there's some teams that are virually unbeatable and always at the top, who cares? Isn't that how it is in all sports? I mean, what would baseball be without perennial contenders like the Yankees and Red Sox to hate on? I don't mind not having a shot at being the best, as I will simply strive to be one of the best of the rest. Seriously though, it's all turning me off a bit now...this is supposed to be fun and I feel like it's being taken a little too seriously and that a little too much thought is being put into it. As far as the scoring, I think we should just use the simple 1,2,3,4 (low score wins) or 4,3,2,1 (high score wins) format and call it a day. I'd really love to see this league come to form and really take off, and I really do appreciate the intentions and efforts of coordinators like OBH, but I fear that if we don't just use the K.I.S.S. method (Keep It Simple, Stupid) then it won't last. Just my 2 cents...(more like 5 cents, but anyway....haha) Take it for what it's worth. (not much, I suppose...lol) :)

Simple 1.2.3.4 (& 5.6.7.8 if 3-4 teams) is the easier, I think we should be agree for that.
We have to do this league simple ^^

@LOUDandPROUD: I was really just throwing ideas out there. I personally think the doubles league was mostly fine (in theory) as it was apart from the one issue with the scoring system. There are really just two issues that made me start wondering about how to actually make it successful:

1. How to make it not basically be the same as Xpand league, because in truth, I think I only actually ever played doubles races in that, for one reason or another. Also, XPand is already a doubles league in some ways, or has that capability built in. If teams want to enter as pairs then they can, and there's an ongoing league where people can take part and do matches at any time.

2. In general people don't commit.The doubles league WAS simple. It couldn't really have been much simpler. I think it was a great idea, and the matches were fun but if we're really honest it wasn't all that successful. About 70 % played only 2 matches or fewer, and 25 % played none at all. Given how many teams were involved, that's quite a clear indicator that people can't/don't really commit long enough to make a go of something like that. Then the first season of Xpand fizzled out despite kaori's best efforts - also because of commitment issues. Compare that to Avalon where people can turn up and play at any time, or ASTRAL where people can play week by week without longer term commitment - both of those were far more successful than the doubles league ever was IMO.

So I do think the doubles league needs something different, both to set it apart form Xpand and to make it adaptable and successful in the longer term.

Well, I have an idea.

Open Doubles

This would be a weekly challenge similair to the tt/sl challenges. Every week a new tour would be posted, any tracks/speed/vehicles/restrictions/etc. Then participants would post their individual availability for matches. When a group of people large enough to satisfy atleast the minimum of 2v2 a time will be set and teams from the player pool are decided. The players decide their individual team names then and scores for each team are posted once their individual event is over. Players may participate as many times per week as they want with any teammates or opponents.

At the end of the week the results post is fully updated with all teams and their scores vs. other teams. The new challenge is posted, but the previous challenge remains in effect for what would be an encore event of sorts(May need its own thread?). During this additional one week time overlapping the new challenge, participating teams in the previous event may challenge any other team that post a result for that challenge.

Like this:

Week 1: Venom Tourney(Qirex only): Vineta K, Sol 2, Ubermall R, Metropia R

Week 2: Encore(Reminder, you must have posted a result to participate)Venom Tourney(Qirex only): Vineta K, Sol 2, Ubermall R, Metropia R
Week 2: Phantom Tourney(Unrestricted): Vineta K R, Sol 2, Anulpha Pass, Sebenco Climb

Regular weekly = fun vs matches for any who are available
Encore event = grudge matches, organized team events.

Probably not perfect but I could see a number of people being able to participate on there own times in double matches while the one with more time to comit can organize set team vs team matches in the encore events.

I probably made that sound terribly complex lol, just think of it like the sl/tt challenge. You have to participate in one before you can do the other that's all. Ideas, suggestions?

EDIT: Allow me to add this isn't a ladder tourney like expand, it is a week by week competition with a casual sort of matching system. No grand champion-ing going on here, just random fun =)

I like your idea IDReaper to cater for different speeds / ships / as well as game modes, not to dissimilar to the SL challenge.

Heres a quick, early mock-up of what I had in mind using the 4 currently registered teams, imagining that the league begun on 26/07/10 :

=====================================

RANKINGS

Code:

---

Team                                  ELO Ranking  Games Played

ACE-FLO & KIGO                          1500              0
Yeldar2097 & KGB                        1500              0
Dark_Phantom_89 & Woopzilla            1500              0
LurifaxFlux & DreamyElf                1500              0

---

After each game post the results, and I shall use the ELO Calculator to work out the new standings.
Heres a picture from Kaori as an example of how it works.

SCHEDULE
Teams can play as many games they chose each week.

Code:

---


Week 1 (26/07/10)-
6 Race Tournament / Rapier / VK, AP Rev, TJ, Mod, Sol2 Rev, CP

Week 2 (2/08/10)
Zone Battle - Sol 2 Rev

Week 3 (9/08/10)
6 Race Tourny / Phantom / CP Rev, Moa, Uber, Uber Rev, Amp, Amp Rev

Week 4 (16/08/10)
Eliminator / Rapier / Ubermall

Week 5 (23/08/10)
6 Race "Weapons Off" Tourny/ Phantom / ModR, MoaR, AP, Seb, Seb Rev, TJR

Week 6 (30/08/10)
Zone Battle - Anulpha Pass

Week 7 (6/09/10)
6 Race Tourny / Phantom / Mod Rev, Moa Rev, AP, Seb, Seb Rev, TJ Rev

Week 8 (13/09/10)
Eliminator / Phantom / Metropia Fwd "minimum 4 teams"

---

=====================================

To see how the rankings change visit the original league thread.

Suggestions people? :) Another idea i had was players had to pick a single ship to use, so we dont get hoards of Triakis players during eliminator, or loads of feisar during zone battle.

Yea, I think keeping it simple and short is key here. What I've noticed in Xpand is that people aren't all that keen to race 2x8 Race Tournaments.

Also, not having any 'MUST PLAY' matches is what will keep the thing going. It's only all too frustrating when your team is ready to play but the other team never is, it's good to make it 'stall proof'.

I wouldn't mind a one-ship-only rule. :)

EDIT: And something sort of related/slightly off topic-ish: I think we should make a habit of only using one chat room on the PSN. The avalon lounge seems to be the default place for people to go to... I think there isn't any need to create further league channels where you keep having to send invites and so on. If we have a common meeting grounds, then it will be even easier to setup spontaneous matches with people who you don't have on your friendslist. I chose the avalon lounge because it seems to be the channel that the vast majority of players have access to already.

Suggestions :

1. use ELO calculator each monday
2. use one chat on PS3, maybe not "avalon lounge" because it's used by lot of people (a chat is limited to 16 persons)
3. use a social group
4. one or two substitutes by team who want

Hmm, I think it's ok to use avalon lounge because even during avalon weekends it doesn't reach max users that often... you can pop in and say "hey someone want to do doubles?" and then you can go to your own private chat for further setting up or whatever. :)

Thats what i had in mind Whoop. Somone can simply make a "doublEs loungE" chat room for everyone to use, but the Avalon one is always a good one to see whos online generally.

Im kind of warming to the idea of having a substitute or 2 if the team would like to do that. My initial plan was to not allow that, because as there isnt a single mandatory race, teams can pick and chose what competition they'd like to enter.... meaning they dont need to compete at a frantic pace..... however there will undoubtedly be times where 1 team member is busy for a week or something, so yeah, a substitute is allowed. Good call Kaori :+

Ive also made, though not finished a social group. Ill make it mandatory to join, and subscribe to certain threads.
Im happy to continue organising it despite no longer being able to compete, but someone else will need to do the organising via psn.

Also tempted to make the actual league thread similar to the SL/TT Hall of Fame thread -- i.e only I can post in it for results etc, and use the social group entirely for organisation and banter :beer

edit:
infact, the more i think about it, the more a substitute might be a smart idea. To keep teams wanting to enter each week, if the initial 2 dont really want to do zone battle, just get a 3rd or 4th person involved too who loves zone battle :)

Good points for Avalon lounge like official chat room, I agree.

I'm available again as a partner due to OBH's unfortunate exit. I'll be happy to start a new team or join as a substitute if that idea goes through.

Though with subs it's not really a doubles league, more like a small team league, but if it helps get the races done I'll support the idea.

Im glad someone appreciates the key word being "doubles" :)

I like the idea of playing all of the game modes - makes it unique :+

@OBH - I think that looks like a good day to work something. It's different to Xpand and offers a good level of flexibility.:+

Excellent!! Well, fight among yourselves for partners :) Then ill begin once we have enough interest.

Sweet.

Will this thread be used as the primary line of communication between doubles teams?

No. The plan was to use this thread for ideas, and to build interest. Once there's enough people ready to go ill make a thread in the arena & a social group for communication between teams.

Right, The tema for us is...



UB3R~JKP & Kieren1888

Team Name: DynaMiK/GrimoirE


;)

Now make some space for pilots from eastern Europe ;)

dariusz1230 & triboy

Another team here;

F.E.I.S.A.R. and KIGO1987

This should work out well compared to other doubles partners.

Both in the same timezone :)

-

Opening times to race is still undecided yet.

Cool, thats 6 teams :D whats happened to ACE then if KIGOs gone with F.E.I.S.A.R? I know Amorbis is free if you still need a partner ACE.

Might be able to start this sooner rather than later if you guys are all ready :)

I think Ace is going to go with another partner in the same timezone as him.

My doubles team will be good to go in a couple of weeks, k :)

I spoke to IDReaper today and can confirm that we are officially in. As stated before, our team name will be PROUDlyReaping. See you on the tracks! :rock

me and slimjim we are gonna be called .....

the london blackcabs

im sure we can live upto that slow but at least we wont get lost on the track and we are not cheap at all :P

My doubles partner is Uber-JKP :)

We're the Twin Tigers... Ubers' Northern Fist technique with my Southern Fist style, and you guys are shaw bros classics. This is AG-Kung Fu, tag team style!

Beware our furious nature, and pray you get a good start :D

(damn, we're so getting lynched now I said that :paperbag)

ace..hasnt uber got keiran1888 as his partner already or was i imagining it..:dizzy

No, you didnt imagine it. Uber and I decided that we will double up, this was discussed a few hours ago with him. He's happy with the arrangement. If Kieran1888 (my friend a i affectionately refer to as Keeza) needs a partner for doubles, I got someone in mind... just need to check with them ;)

is uber fast ..i dont recall playing him..

Uber-JKP: A quick study, fast, crazy in a FEISAR, and can lessen your shield energy without weapons in seconds ... furthermore, I trained him, and now he's better than me :) I love this guy :rock

How does this work?? Is it a point scoring system, knockout or both?? I want in, ill find a noob to join me....

:nod Mmmmmmmmm
try zeldar..he is noob..im sure with little practice he may be able to get around the track........:nod

Bloody heck!!! Speak of the devil! I had you in mind Carlos, to pair up with Kieren1888... wow, hope this can work! You've trancended, so don't class yourself as a noob, you and Kieren1888 will be good as doubles partners imo :) go for it :rock

haha thanks ace:)
i was looking at the teams before and some of the names i recognise and raced against... they have kicked my ass on the track lol. but yes if i can get some1 to team up with then im in, its not about the winning but the taking part :D

Aaah, that's the spirit man. :) you got the right attitude mate, you'll go a long way with it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlos69nash

its not about the winning but the taking part :D

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exactly!:+
i'm average at best myself so i'm here just for the fun :)

@ace
i think it will be a tight battle for last place between your team and ours! :lol
btw, it's good you team up with uber, i had uber and you in mind as partners but you were already booked and then lurifax offered himself, i'm happy though because he is very fast! :)