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Autopilot makes the ship go faster in almost any scenario - especially straightaways. Get a good stretch, and activate an autopilot - watch your speed jump up.
I use them as "ghetto turbos" between pads.
Some corners I realize it takes slower than a perfect-line done manually - but with the speed boost - I'd venture to guess it can take Chengou hairpin faster.
Yeah I think there is no question, even though sometimes the racing lines on the AP are very weird... and that it will sometimes disengage in strange positions.
There are some cases where I am not sure it will actually outrun an human pilot. In the first straight of Anulpha, is taking the three speed pads (in an oblique line) more beneficial than AP? Maybe... But that is a very specific case: maybe the AP speed boost makes up for any speed pads he misses (quite a few actually?).
I think you are right about the hairpin: no way to make it there faster than the AP... However, I'd rather be slower in the turn (I often let go of the thrust there) with a boost ready for the first jump.
Wait a minute... AP makes you go faster on a straightaway?! :eek What's the logic behind that?
logic is to make it useful, if it didn't go faster, then it would be a completely useless item
once you know how to take corners correctly.
I know how to take corners correctly, but still I find the AP useful on some tracks, because it's simply undistractable. It's great for fighting your way through a tight pack at the beginning of a race. Or if I know there's a tricky section coming up, I sometimes keep the AP, just in case something leads to me approaching the tricky corner in a wrong way - I can still activate AP to correct my messing up. Making AP faster on straights would be overpowering it.
It does, find a straight stretch and max out your speed (without speed pads or anything) Pay attention to how fast you're going.
Grab an autopilot, and on the next lap, use it in the same spot.
Try doing this on Venom or Flash, as on slower classes its even more obvious. (and gives you more time to gawk at your speed display)
Or maybe it's just a hidden turbo that only works for us cool cats who use the 2097 HUD. ;)
It's actually "logical" that the AP makes you go a tad faster, otherwise it would have way too little use. As I said, I'm pretty sure the lines you get in AP miss several speed pads (Like in Anulpha Pass). The boost you get is also minimal, so all things considered, the ship go faster but it doesn't mean you'll get there any sooner. Oh and I wonder if at some point (like November 08), the AP would not take you on the Anulpha shortcut... I was pretty sure of that, but then I tried recently and it did take the shortcut so... maybe I am messing up my memories with a previous WO?
yeah i think the autopilot has several lines depending on the situation, or just how much it wants to annoy you.
it takes me on the anulpha overpass about 50% of the time so the other 50 i just start swearing like a mad dement. i try not to use it near there just in case but i'd like to know if anyone knows why it does that?
That section is fairly easy to be honest - get on the overpass first, THEN use the autopilot - the autopilot will keep you on and you'll go faster than normal to boot. Score :)
Well, the way AP has typically been implemented is that it hands control of your ship over to the computer. As in, the exact same way all the AI are controlled. In most of the games, the AI was pretty slow, so AP was pretty slow. In HD, the Elite AI are kind of fast, so the AP should be just as fast. No big surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
I would venture a guess that if you knock the AI down to "easy", the AP will be slow again. And AP will only be "fast" if you're using Elite AI.
Just a theory.
Somebody test it out and let us know maybe? 8 )
No testing done, but I'm inclined to think that you are right Task.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Task
I disagree here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Task
1) The AP makes you go faster than the Elite AI does when it doesn't use
the AP itself.
Whenever I use it (or anyone), my ship will go noticeably faster than the
Elite AI and should normally overtake other ships, if not then will get me
much closer to them.
Another way to prove it is to compare the Elite AI vs AP on chenghou long left
curve, Elite AI will never get stuck, while you would, so it's obviously not
the same, in fact it's because the AP is using the same racing line as the AI
but with more speed, which causes some effects such as going higher with the
bumps (and getting stuck) or using more weird airbraking (first curve on
chenghou), just because it'll follow the line perfectly.
2) Speed doesn't vary with the AI difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Task
The effects you notice on chenghou are the same on any difficulty and even
online, they would be much reduced at a lower speed, and they're not so...
same speed.
I swear to god, these evil lost bitches elite AIs have the ability to learn from your flying techniques. They are really Artificial Intelligence that learn from your mistakes, only way to take them down, is to take them down hard and quick. Before they have a moment to catchup again.
good shout kigo. they also pull bombs out of their arses like magicians pull rabbits out of hats. arcade perfect ain't pretty or painless, except when you do it. ahh...bliss :)
haha, lol. Very true. Wipeout is made in the land of Wizards and witches, im sure hogwarts isnt far from SL HQ. Those Elite racers are controlled by wizards and witches by teleconnected magic or something. Mines, missile, bomb. BOOM! FM! Where did that come from. lol.
maybe they're broomsticks with bodykits? but maybe i just took it too far... i think you may be right. especially when you hear bomb, missile, rockets, and end up stationary for about a year. i tend to get that online with you and the other pacy people but it always seems far less sinister. the AI are out to get me i swear.
There's no doubts that they cheat. Triakis accelerates faster than my Goteki for ****'s sake :x
I've had the occasional 'surprise weapon out of nowhere' deal too. Incidentally, it's always the best weapon for the occasion. Coming up from behind, it is mines or bomb, passing them in front, rockets, turboing past, it's a missile. ARGH! When it's a quake that's just so annoying because then every single ship will pass next to you, and you start from scratch.
Autopilot saves the day, but not always.
So remember kids, when playing Elite, if you're getting pwnt, just restart the race. Controllers cost 60$ FYI ;)
---
I lol'd at the 'stationary for about a year' comment :lol
I wish i took that into account before i attempted the elite trophy. My controller sure did fly higher than that jump on Sebenco Climb with an early boost. Smash! Angry German kid Style, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
Stationary for a year, sounds spot on:)
always perfect for the occasion i agree. and they also seem nigh on impervious to fire, the cheeky devils ;). the rubber-banding is also insane; run an almost perfect race and you still end up behind some record-breaking AI ship running on amphetamines :mad:
that's precisely why i used a bog-standard sixaxis as opposed to my precious DS3 when going for campaign elite and arcade legend: two controllers down the line; victory!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
Does anyone (please god!) have any tips on how to beat the elite AI on Chengou phantom...I have had this one race to do since October, to get my elite trpohy. I did the others with (relative) ease but this track just infuriated me, so much so that I've attempted it only a handful of times since.
It just seems like the AI has no intention of letting me win no matter what I do...they always have a weapon prepared for when I get past them and the one time I did get into first I was beaten to the finish line by a sneaky ship with a turbo boost.....help! :frown:
If you're playing in racebox mode, you can play without weapons, it counts for the trophy ;)
stinkleroy: try to finish with a 2.09.00 time or less, if you can't then
practice some more on time trial.
Also be as aggressive as you can, every weapon you shoot will slow down other
ships, only recharage shields when the energy is at its lowest (or when the
weapon is completely useless), otherwise, use the weapons!
And finally: barrel roll like crazy, at least 2 per lap (one on the first ramp
and one on the last ramp).
Thanks guys, I'm doing my 2 BR's per lap, pitching down on the big curve...I can often get into first it's just rare that I can hold it for more than a lap....they just seem to find infinate new ways of blowing me up or ramming me off the track. I think I just need more patience to be honest......hehe :p
Girly Pilot (previous moniker retracted) - the last track on elite ai is always the worst. Whether it's due to you avoiding your weakest track until last, or maybe the PS3 snorted 12 grams of coke before - I dunno.
My last track was Metropia Reverse - and it took me 4 hours (nonstop) to beat it. I laughed, I cried, I went insane - and then finally I beat it. Then I cried some more.
So take a breather, grab some good coffee, and kick some more arse.
Maybe pretend all the AI ships are your little bumpy friend from earlier today. :lol
Hey you, I've warned you about calling me stinky!! I'm going to send someone over to steal all of your coffee for that remark! :D
Anyway back on topic...I'm normally good at Chengou, it just seems that I don't have the patience for the cheating a**hole AI haha :p
I was really disappointed of the AI-balance on elite. A few of them are ridiculously hard (e.g. Chenghou forward/reverse), while other tracks are too easy (e.g Anulpha, Moa Therma) and you can beat them at nearly every attempt. Who the **** tested if the AI on the courses is too hard, Zico? I had the feeling that some tracks just were so hard to artificially increase the time you need to get through the campaign. And this is what I even hate more than a cheating AI or a rubberband effect! This was the one and only time i thought about stop playing the game...
Why didn't they just turn the AI speed on some courses 2-5% down and on other courses 2-5% up to get a nice balance and still a really hard but also quite fair game. Sure it depends on the individual racer which courses are harder or easier for him/her, but I think nearly everyone would say that the AI on Chenghou is defintively insanely harder than on Anulpha...
@stinkleroy: To beat the AI on Chenghou just race a couple of hours, the time will come when you get 4 or 5 turbos, autopilots and quakes in one race and then you'll beat the bastards on their own ground.:+
I think I've said this before, so if so... whatever.
Personally, I think anyone who's having trouble with the AI should just ignore it for a while and play online. This way you can get to know the tracks well, while racing people who are at/near your own skill level so you're not constantly taking hits to your morale. Plus, if you ever find yourself in a room against some of the top-tier players, you'll be wishing they were as slow as the elite AI.
Seriously. I remember struggling to beat the elite AI early on. After playing online against some of the best for a couple months, the elite AI is nothing. I can go against it on any track and win first time almost every time (90% of the time, I win 100% of the time... heh).
Besides, this game's replay value comes almost entirely from the multiplayer. Why bother playing single player if it just pisses you off? It doesn't add anything new to multiplayer mode anyway.
Well, you do get eight very tough competitors who will never leave...
;)
The AI is how it should be, if it wasn't hard then it wouldn't be worth calling elite. Yes its a bit cheap at times, but at least its not rubber band, if you get a lead and race clean you keep it. This is the only racing game that I can remember that has this in recent memory.
@Cerium: I agree with you and the AI is defintively ok. Too hard AI doesn't exist overall. Practice makes perfect.:D
What I dislike is the balance!;)
Not from what I recall. I pretty much play single race Elite exclusively, and I'm afraid to say that there is rubber banding. Sometimes at a checkpoint I have 5 seconds lead, and the next I have only 2, and the next I can see all the ships in rear view. They catch up, if you're too far.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScar
And I ain't messing up so much either, I know Sebenco Reverse like the back of my hand for example, yet I never get more than 2 seconds lead in the end, but in the middle of the race it might say I have 5 seconds lead at a checkpoint.
Colin Berry might disagree, he said there was no rubber band, but from my experience, there is. It's certainly not like in Pulse, where if I get a 5 seconds lead I keep it until the end of the race. I have never finished more then 2 seconds ahead of the Elite AI, after a clean race.
Also, sometimes say on Chengou I can win with 2:08 with a truly terrible race, and still be 1 sec ahead of the AI. Other times, I get to 2:04 and lose to an AI who did 2:02 (Which is world record level, in top 20 at least), and that was a pretty damn fine race.
Either it's a very big coincidence, or one of the programmers didn't tell something to Colin.
So just like against real players? This looks like a nice AI to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
Btw, never won with more than 2 seconds ahead against the AI?
I remember not so long ago I had almost 10 seconds!
And Cerium: 100% agreed, I almost always win against Elite AI,
and that's with starting last on the grid each time!
If anything, they should add an Elite+ difficulty.
I'm pretty (but not 100%) sure that it's that way:Quote:
Originally Posted by Connavar
If you race slow, the AI races a little slower and if you're fast, they're also faster. When I was really fast and made no mistakes, but just couldn't overtake the 3rd or 4th or so (because I was shot with missiles and rockets now and then) the first made near record times (because I was quite fast I assume). But when I had a bad race and rammed 5 times per lap the sides of the track and I got in maybe 6th or so, the first one had a miserable time.
EDIT: just turned the PS3 on and checked it: I choosed Piranha (to make sure that I will make a lousy race, I can't fly that thing) on Metropia forward (the track which is my worst, also to make sure I'll make a lousy race). I did the first lap and gave the AI +10 seconds when I passed the start/finish line for the first time. Then I raced normally, after one and a half laps I reduced it to +5.5 seconds to the AI. 2 Laps after I started catching them up (so I passed the start/finish line for the third time) it just were +4 seconds up to the AI and I started seeing the other guys. But from that moment on I couldn't catch up any more (the plan to race lousy with piranha on metropia was a full success:g) and it stayed +4 seconds up to the AI until the end. I raced constantly Laps 2-5.
If someone had other experiences, then correct me please.:)
This can't have been done on Elite level. Novice, yes, not Elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connavar
Or for some weird and ****ed up reason, the AI on my console is always at 2 seconds max behind me at the finish line, and not on yours.
I would have to see it to believe it, because according to my experiences, this is simply impossible.
Without exaggerating, my best split time was I think 4 seconds from the second ship on Elite Difficulty, I've never been over 5 seconds in splits. And I think that was only mid-race too...
I'm not the best WipEout HD player for sure, but I hold my own against the Elite AI, it's very rare that I lose against them (Lose aka getting less than first place), it probably happens only once in every 20 or 30 races. I must have played hundreds of races against them, and I from what I remember, I simply never got further away than two tiny and insignificant seconds. No matter what my final time was, either an absolutely horrible time in the top 1000 or a world record level time in the top 10. The AI was always two seconds behind me at the end. Always.
So yeah, show me your ten seconds, I would like to see that. Ten seconds between your final time and the first AI ELITE ship to be precise.
Because even if I get like one turbo per lap, it's always going to end up with the two seconds split at the end.
@ Cerium...I think you misunderstand me. I'm not new to this game, in fact I was probably one of the ifrst to have it as I took the afternoon off work in anticipation...feverishly checking the psn store every minute (a little sad I know)...and since the day I got it all I want to do is play online (a 12 year dream for me) ...I of course finished the campaign for unlocks but since then have spent ALL of my time on this game online.
At heart I'm a rapier pilot as I just enjoy it more but am quite competent at phantom..not great through lack of practice but am not a novice....as I said I beat the Elite AI with relative ease (1 or 2 tries) for all other tracks but this one back in October...they just seem to have infinate weapons to blow me away with on this track and I think it's my lack of patience that stops me from getting anywhere with it.....I just wanted to complete the campaign for my own sanity..but in reality just don't find it as much fun as online. So the problem is me!
.....
Maybe I forgot to mention that I'm super aggressive against the AI, and usuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
kill 1-2 ships myself, often plasma the leader, I guess if you use another
style, with less carnage, then yeah the gap will be shorter.
Maybe it wasn't 10 seconds but it was definitely above 6, and probably above 8,
I remember Ubermall Reverse for instance. I'll try to find a way to record a
race on video then, to prove it.
has anyone else found that the elite AI on reverse tracks are far inferior to the normal tracks?
when i was going for arcade perfect i'd never raced any of the reverse tracks but i managed to win most of them within 5-6 tries.
it may seem like a lot but considering i was learning the courses in the process i was surprised that i could do it that quickly.
anyone else found this?
Yes Yeldar, exactly that. Whenver I raced online on the reverse tracks I would be all over the show (still am to be fair) but going for Arcade perfect it was quite easy. The only one that gave me any bother was reverse Chenghou. The last one to get was forward Chenghou. Although I'm reasonably competent online I struggle against the AI. BRs wherever possible doesn't seem to help either, but for some reason the only way I could do it was in a Hariamau. Think it was a pretty decent time (for me anyway), possibly top 50.
As I said, no matter what I do here it's always two seconds split at the end. No matter how many kills, how many weapons fired, how many turbos, how many barrel rolls, no matter what I do, it's two seconds. On rare occasions it will be more than that, but a lot of times it's only two seconds (Or around that), and my final time can vary greatly even if I still win.
Only on tracks with shortcuts can I hope to get further away than those two seconds, but that's only if I get turbos to do the shortcuts (Ubermall Reverse is one of those tracks), and even then they somehow catch up in the end, maybe not until two seconds, but under five generally.
My point is that you can't consistently beat them with a ten seconds lead. I believe you can get a ten seconds lead, but that's just an extraordinary case, where you're lucky you get many turbos/etc. I can't possibly imagine beating the Elite AI with a ten seconds lead every time. This can't happen on my game. Some programming difference maybe, or my system is acting up, don't know, but it just never happened frequently enough so that I remember it. Maybe using Goteki with lower speed makes a difference, but then how come am I able to pass them with relative ease, but then I just can't lose them, if I'm always going relatively at the same speed? Once I pass them they seem "stuck" behind me at two seconds, no matter what speed I'm going at.
It's weird to explain, I guess one way of knowing what I mean would be to watch my videos... Sol2 for example, is a pretty damn good ride (4th globally at the time, don't know about now), and look at the final split. 2.2 seconds. And I've had much worse races before, I still won, with a 2 seconds lead. What can I tell ya, for me it's just not possible. :/ I would love to believe you entirely at 100% and etc, but from my experiences the Elite AI are cheating, cheap and rubber-banding bastards. :(