Totally agree. If pilot assist is supposed to help people into the game, it should only be available in the earliest classes. The point of training wheels is to reach a point where they come off.
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Totally agree. If pilot assist is supposed to help people into the game, it should only be available in the earliest classes. The point of training wheels is to reach a point where they come off.
When I heard about the 5 percent penalty for the assist taking you away from the wall, I was very leary, despite people saying not to be. I just did some testing on sebenco climb on phantom speed, and this assist If I were to race perfectly without, and then to race a good race with it on, would be within 3 seconds, if not closer, to my perfect race time. This is way too much of a assist. I was able to drive like a douch somewhat, and come close to my good times. Pilot assist should slow you down more IMO. Either that or you might as well use an infinite autopilot. Isn't this supposed to help people get into the game, rather than allow great (yes I mean great) records using it? Lots of people were ticked about fusion's wall riding being faster than perfect turns, what do you think of this feature now, that it shows to be very fast? opinions? Maybe a download to make it a higher percentage hit to your top speed. I think if I used this feature on on hard courses, I would do better than if it was off in multiplayer (read: not moa therma)
haven't practiced enough to test that, but after the incredible power of the autopilot in the turns, if the pilot assist is now a record assistant (haven't tried yet), it would be sad yes.
As someone mentioned in another thread before - just make the damn thing be gone for Phantom, maybe even Rapier. Ever seen a guy on the Tour de France with training wheels? Of course not, because as soon as you can keep your balance, you take the things off to learn how to really ride. By the time a player hits Rapier, he really should be that far in his learning curve.
What I would really like to know: can you actually beat your non-PA times with PA?
Don't care Kanar, the autopilot is very powerfull, it's true, but very short and scarce (it's very strategic to use it at the best moment). But the pilot assist can't help you beat records, even in touching 10 walls in a race you're faster without. No, the problem to me, is the spirit we can meet online with kids (probably) using the pilotassist on the difficult tracks in phantom speed, instead of creating rooms in flash or rapier speed on the tracks they master. That's why i suggested to limitate the using of pilot assist at the rapier class (maybe flash, yes El-Habib).
I agree with Al in that the assist should slow you down just a little more in order to make a significant difference for pilots who might not be able to do 4 or 5 perfect laps at tracks with lots of tight corners.
But then what really bothers me is this: What if some players turn the assist on just before they reach a critical corner - go smoothly around that corner - and turn it off again? What if some of the online records are from such players? The thought alone somewhat spoils the excitement of the competition for me. There certainly are people who simply care about being first and nothing else, I can't see why that wouldn't be happening...
You mean someone actually pausing the game just before a tight corner, going into options, then unpausing, riding the PA on the turn, and then pausing again to disable? Wow, who'd want to do that? But I guess you're right, some people really will go out of their way just to have an unfair advantage... :-
Still, it has yet to be confirmed that using the PA for example on the hairpin at Chenghou really is faster than cutting it perfectly without PA. If that's the case, something really needs to be done.
El, as you suggest it, i'm sure that a cut in a turn is significantly faster than the mid- track turn of the PA. But maybe someone must try it to be sure, G'Kyl ?
Absolutely! I'm not saying it works that way and I certainly won't even try. It was just a thought that grew from AP not slowing you down enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by leungbok
I guess what I am saying is: Make it yet a bit slower and don't let people change it on the fly. I mean, there is probably a good chance the latter pays off in at least a couple of turns...
I light tapped brakes, and the auto p assisted me the rest. I think it might be faster at sebenco reverse with those crazy turns, and I bet if used correctly it is faster at any very sharp turns.
Remove it from the game >:D
As i stated in another post (not that anyone reads it) :p
Is that if you use pilot assist at all within a race you should not recieve any record of the race I.e. will not count towards a trophy and will not go on the leaderboard :)
Also, how the hell do these PA noobs do zones lol? thats proberly why im in top 5 for every track, cause the PA noobiekins cant get past the first zone event, lol ^^
+1. Pre-release I assumed it would be so. I`m all for pilot assist if it lets more people play and enjoy the game, but I think it should be barred from online leaderboards to whatever extent it is possible still to do this. Maybe a patch now could stop too much damage being done. There are a lot of casual gamers who deserve to enjoy the game, but there also a lot of gamers who want to play fairly seriously. If a situation arises where pilot assist becomes necessary to get the best possible times then HD will effectively be broken. As Al suggests, we don`t yet know what can be achieved with it if someone with some skill decides to see how far it can be pushed. I hope it doesn`t come to that. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalineBurst
I only actually tried pilot assist for the first time last night to see what the fuss was about. I have no idea really what I was expecting but it's utterly ridiculous. You may as well not play it with assist on because it's no longer a game. Just hold X and wait for race to finish.
It shouldn't be allowed past Venom and, even then, if there is a system to ease people into the game, I'm not sure this is it because it makes it so easy that I actually think it would be harder for totally new players to move away from it. Playing a bunch of races with assist on and then taking it off would be like learning to ride a tricycle and then someone throwing you into the cockpit of a harrier jet and saying 'off you go'.
Oh, and shouldn't all this be in here? - http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5175
Here is a big question... Does Pilot assist make much of a difference to lap/race times? If someone has it off and gets a perfect race line, hits boosts etc will it be that much difference?? If not then what is the problem?
Personally I am for pilot assist if it makes the learning curve for the game better. I'm sure some first time players (me included!) to the original wipeout were daunted by the difficulty and the steep learning curve.
I know how rewarding mastering the game is etc. but i think pilot assist will make the game a lot more accessable for new players.
If you can get faster times without assist then this forces players to turn assist off. it is all part of the learning curve.
the problem is that it is way too close to real records, and possibly faster on tracks such as sebenco reverse, not to mention it might be faster in multiplayer (we can't race perfect all the time, with the possible exception of Arnaud).
Wow I had no idea, I figured there was a gap.. :?
Hmm I'm going to do investingating tonight!! Thanks Jabberjaw!
try steering somewhat correctly with it on, and tap brakes to keep the ship from doing the autopilot all over the track thing. I also tested this on phantom, not sure about other speed classes
I've just made a test. I choose a fast lap's session in racebox, sebenco climb reverse, phantom speed. I started the race with pilot assist on. After 10 laps, i made a record of 0.24.32 (perfect lap with 3 br), i paused the game and removed the pilot assist, after 5 more laps i made a 0.23.04 using the same boost and br strategy. It maybe possible to do better than 0.24.32 with pilot assist on, but i'm totally sure it's possible to do really better than 0.23.04 without. So, even if i don't like this feature (i let friends use it offline when they come home), it can't match against good racing. If someone can beat,with PA on, my 0.23.04 (Arnaud is already beyond with 0.22.86) , i will give another try without.;)
Could you try pilot assist again? this time though, you should not get a perfect lap with it on, that is what slowed it down, it's ok to ride the walls on some of the turns, and faster at that. PA if you get too close slows you down, and you already slowed down with the airbrake. I am not good at this track for testing, and it sounds like you are.
I will try another attempt with PA on. I will let at least 40 laps (did i really said that ? :brickwall) and i will edit this post to give the results.
But NEVER, EVER, anyone ask me to do it again !!;)
Ok i made a 99 laps session :eek and i must admit the pilot assist can really help to do good times. I succeed a 0.23.21 at the lap 61 doing 5 or 6 br and it's pretty close of my 0.23.04 without pilot assist:?. I keep confident in the fact i can beat my record more easily without using PA. Well, i did my part in bringing concrete examples, now it's your turn, mates.;)
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A second thread was started on the same topic as ^Wipeout HD pilot assist^; this splits the discussion, may confuse the users, and causes extra work for the mods. Please do not do this again. I have merged the threads and left a two-day redirect.
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I've only used PA twice. The very first time I tried it on Phantom and it pissed me off so much I had to put it off after half a lap god it was so infuriating. Not only did it not let me cut real close to the wall but it also pushed me back out onto the track, but wait it pushed me too much apparently because then the other side kicked in too and my ship started fishtailing along like it was being piloted by a drunk.
Second was to get the trophy, man they really do give some of them away for jack ****.
What your going to get now is a new kind of player who learns all the tricks needed to fly with PA on instead of ever turning it off. Your giving these people more than a push back on track its saving them shield energy on top of that. Can you include and option for the hoster to get shot of it online please? You could put it in the same patch as the respawn off then the game would be almost perfect, apart from the fact you can also once again cut out sections of track by going over walls...
thanks for those examples. It looks like it is WAY too close to real racing. Very dissapointing here. I guess we did have reason to worry, hopefully this can be corrected at some point
Crap your PA time is better than my norm :(
Well I'm sure the guys at SL are looking into this.
Shortly after HD was released, there were a few people complaining about fishtailing handling; perhaps they had ^Pilot Assist^ switched on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapier Racer
Yes Lance, it does that if you really cram into the wall and try to compensate.
I beat in the normal way my PA test by half a second, but the difference is already too short:?. I hope too that SL read this and do something in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
Interesting results leungbok. Maybe I was wrong saying all the PA users could not beat me, or someone else who is very good at Wipeout. Hmm I hope this gets fixed, if it is possible.
Yes Dark i hope that too ! It was weird to try to beat my time using the PA and also wanting to not succeed.:?
I'm a complete novice when it comes to these tracks and I find the PA useful for the first few laps to learn the course without constantly being thrown from wall to wall like a pinball. I've never been able to get any golds with PA on though. Seriously I have probably ~8 hours of playtime with HD (though a lot of other WO experience) and I get better times without PA.
I think it's a great feature to prevent frustration for the complete newbie. I also agree with disabling the feature permanently on Phantom.
got tested it on Sol2 last week : current non-PA laptime phantom : 19.45 .
spent 10 laps PA-on and i did 21.24 : a 20 maybe done with that Pilot assist but in any way it can beat your original non-PA time if you are an experimented pilot.
I would say that PA is worse than training wheels, mainly because it leads you into bad habits which become hard to break.
I had PA on for some time and now when I take it off I'm hitting every wall. I guess with some practice I'm reasonable now up to Flash speed, but Rapier...
We knew it would, pilot assist *cough noobs* is being abused commonly now as a way to injure None Pa's by grinding them into the wall without a care in the world of getting injured in the process.
agreed I think PA should be baned from online play
Meh, although i'd be overjoyed if that happened they would lose to many players from what i've seen over 90% of players use it so wouldnt be to good :| then again they have the money lol? :D,
I would be happy if they gave it a bigger penalty at the very least a 10% top speed decrease, as they have serious advantages on tracks like sebanco climb and chenghou project, i've managed to master sol 2 though :p dang those long turns with air breaks lol
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o_O it was merged into this thread, i only put it as a seperate thread because i felt like it didnt link to well as it was more of a rant :p
There are lOts of rants in this thread. :D
After some more time in HD I really think that PA should be disabled in Rapier+, maybe even Flash+ races. Sure if you're a fantastic/seasoned pilot, you can cruise past the PA pilots, but the rest of us who aren't elite and prefer not to PA can still get stomped by newbie PA pilots. Its pretty disheartening.
Especially on some of the twisty tracks. I'm nowhere near my initial PA runs on Sebenco and I've run that course 50+ times. PA makes it a breeze to hit speed pads and BR without crash risk. I'm going to need 500 laps on this course to beat my PA times :(
Maybe I just really suck?
Heres some more.
Well I find thats not in fact the case the only track where pilot assist users didn't fall more than 4 seconds behind me tonight was Anulpha Pass. Now I happen to love this track and it pisses me off greatly that it IS now the joke track of the game what with it being the choice track for these assholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrenalineBurst
I raced tonight filtering out the games so only Phantom showed, I have to say I'm actually shocked at the lack of good players and the skill gap between people from here and then everyone else. Occasionally you'll encounter a random person thats very good, but not tonight.
Every Tournament/Single race I entered at Phantom had at least 5 players and all appeared to be using PA, one tour I entered had 6 players and 12 races, they all dropped out after 2 probably because of the 13 second gap between me and them, quite annoying.
I'm still waiting for the interesting explanation as to why the host cannot disable this bug in the lobby.
I got a message saying that the person I beat by 10 seconds couldn't understand how I was so fast and already had platinum. I told him to turn off the PA. All he said in return is "how did you know"
Whatever, it's hard for a PA pilot to defeat a non-PA pilot who knows what they are doing. If it means we get more Wipeout games to play in the future, I may disagree with it, but as long as I can turn it off, I'll grin through the pain.
Plus, it's really funny to watch them fishtail the entire length of the skill cut on Anulpha Pass. Makes me chuckle everytime I see it :p
hahaha yeah Rubix42 that is funnie to see I think the next patch should give the online option to the host to turn off PA this will keep us loyal fans happy
"Imagin the gasp the PA'er will have when they see "your PA has been disabled at the request of the HOST" Plastered across the screen :)