Yeah, but first they'd have to figure out a way to get rid of all the excitement :turd from the cockpit made by pilots. :lol:
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Yeah, but first they'd have to figure out a way to get rid of all the excitement :turd from the cockpit made by pilots. :lol:
@ Colin: ok, i understand. I was wrong, ok, but the point is the same... who is the ship-designer now? why they [sony and so on] took him?
bah...
They were done by several people, including guys who have worked on earlier versions of Wipeout, going back to 2097 in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by feiyen
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, there are always going to be ones you like and ones you dont, personally I choose my ship based on how it handles and plays rather than how it looks, but I think most of the ships look amazing, you really need to seem them 'in your hand' to get the best look at them.
As for the notion of the Music and Graphic design being as important as the gameplay, everytime I read that, or hear that - a part of me dies and I wonder if I should just make Music videos :cry:
Surely the main point on ship design is that True player play internal anyway :D
All I know is that I saw a screen of Pirhana from behind and it looks a lot like a smooved out version of the Wip3out version which was, on record, my favorite ship design in the series, for some strange reason. When I'm rich, my first stop is to West Coast Customs with some pictures of that Pirhana and orders to turn my Scion Xb into a direct replica.
I don't think it's that people undervalue the work gone in elsewhere. tDR are percieved to have given the series a part of its aesthetic identity, and for me, along with the changed handling, their absence was felt in Fusion from a stylistic standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Berry
Having said this, I love what the current team has done with Pure. The series identity most importantly feels as if its come back. Everything from the menus, the HUD, the attract sequence etc. all have that minimalist futurism that's so important (for me) in establishing the series' atmosphere. To be honest, you really can't tell the touch of tDR is missing from what I've seen of Pure. The design is that concise and on the money.
All the subtle, underplayed intelligence, not to mention the distant, clincal feel that's always given the Wipeout universe its mystery, seem to be back. :)
Fusion felt too explict and turned on a tangent in comparison.
I don't think people really mean to under-appreciate the work by Psygnosis or Sony Leeds and Liverpool... and perhaps tDR were given more credit than they were worth, but along with the handling... that sublime and wonderfully muted and mysterious feel the series was always renouned for...
it's really good to see it back in full flow.
For me, Wipeout hasn't returned to its roots for six years. It's a long time, and in a sense welcoming Pure is like welcoming a new Zelda or Mario title. Something wondeful on the verge of realising its old identity again.
As a question, has Sony ever considered giving the game's universe more licence in the form of a GTA/RPG styled title? It'd be amazing to think what it'd be like to explore more of the world that forever seems to exist on the fringes. :)
In any case, I can't wait to read more reviews of Pure. I think this is the game which is going to persuade me to finally crack and import a US PSP.
People love shiny things and nice noises, but gameplay is what will have them playing it years from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Berry
Music videos heh... :lol:
FOR me it's important... i'm not saying that without a good gameplay the game will be good... i'm saying that i want a good gameplay AND a good design. And these crafts aren't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Berry
Oh... so you can make green/fucsia rounded child toys... :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Berry
In the case of Wipeout though, I don't think the distinction is easily clear cut.
What baffles me about gameplay, is this emphasis that it's always separate from the asethetic design of a title. Atmosphere is important in helping to place the desire to progress in a title or come back to be intoxicated by certain aspects that help enrich the play experience.
Just as easily as gameplay, atmosphere can be developed by elements such as graphics or sound. Wipeout has always been in my opinion about getting in the zone and switching off. Eventually, you just kind of melt and absorb into the gameplay... I feel the minimalist and clear design helps players to more easily do that.
From a design point of view, with the right handling, a game's atmospheric sensibilites can be enriched by its various elements, which in turn aren't necessarily always play-related in the strictest sense.
This is why it's hard to define in my view, because gameplay isn't a separate device from the elements which represent it for us.
Agreed it is not easy to separate, and without the stunning visuals and music and sfx pure wouldnt be what it is, but look at fusion.
It had lovely visuals, nice enough graphic design and music, but didnt play as well as it could have.
If the music and graphic design had been even better, it still wouldnt have compensated for the gameplay ending up unbalanced and weapon heavy
True. Gameplay is certainly (overall) more important to design than the surrounding elements representing it.
I suppose its about balance... perhaps a slightly obvious example would be a lot of EA Sports titles, where the emphasis on 'slick' presentation can at times feel over cooked, and almost an apology for a lack of depth in some areas.
What Wipeout historically has achieved well is a balance between minimliast design and highly focused gameplay. It was always very easy to get into and lose yourself in.
I think if Pure can recapture that essence, that marriage between gameplay and presentation in terms of balance, then it's more or less going to be the PSP's key first generation title.
feiyen, apologies if i came across as harsh or arsey btw, i didnt mean to :)
its just TDR get so much praise and yet our in house graphic design lads have done a great job on this one.
I can echo that on presentation alone. The menus I've seen look absolutely gorgeous, and I'm quite infatuated with the new logos.
Special Bonus Props:
The cover iconography for 'Multiplayer', 'Memory Card Needed', and (my favorite) 'Downloadable Content'. All design ought to be this slick while being ever so functional.
colin, i understand.
the tracks seems to be very good, also the general design... but you are wrong about the crafts.
Take me! :D
Take me for the next wipeout, i'm a noob with 3d graphs [only a basic maya knowledge], but i'm good in 2d design. I can make stylish crafts for you. For free T_T
lol... ok. Stop whining, feiyen.
hope for the next wipeout ;_;
And don't forget the attract sequence. The best since Wipeout 2097.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminBirdie
The key thing is tDR's absence isn't felt from what I've seen of Pure.
If anything, it shows that the series isn't reliant on their presence to help form an identity, because the design is just...
You can tell in five seconds flat from looking over a few screens that Wipeout has properly returned in terms of its individuality.
Oh yeah, and whoever brought Photek and Cold Storage back deserves major kudos.
Photek's Third Sequence defined 2097's soundscape for me.
feiyen, you're pissing me off a bit! do you really think you can pull off better craft designs than some of the guys who have worked on W'O'' for...like...EVER!?
Give those artists the respect they deserve, and stop whining!
And to StudioLiverpool and everyone who is involved in Pure: I LOVE YOU. Seriously, I do. I have been waiting for the comeback of true W'O'' for years!
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
i think i can do crafts better than pure's one.
am i wrong?
maybe... i still think that.
Anyway... it seems here no one can say something in Pure isn't good, so i "stop whining" :roll:
On the next wipeout, please, put some goodlooking crafts.
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the person who owes an apology to someone is not Colin, but feiyen, who is behaving like the typical ignorant adolescent who worships Designer's Republic without even knowing what they did and did not do. i would be a good deal less tolerant of such uninformed personal bias pretending to be universally applicable Truth. Colin was a model of forbearance in this instance; but having dealt with this kind of arrogant ignorance so many times, i will be less forbearing.
feiyen, ship design is a matter of personal taste; who the **** are you to say that designs are ''bad'' or ''good''? you can say which ones you like, and which ones you do not like, but do not make the mistake of assigning an absolute value to a design or to your own opinions. you have now behaved like an idiot troll and inflamed the more rational people here to respond to your unjust accusations and assumptions, and consumed their time and mine, and by doing so have insulted all of us, but most particularly Colin. i demand that you apologise to him NOW.
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Aaah dont worry about it. He is entitled to his opinion and I'm pretty sure people will say worse things :)
we are all big enough, daft enough and thick skinned enough to take it.
The only thing that bugs me is when people think TDR was responsible for almost everything in the first three games. They werent, and that does down the great work the liverpool and leeds teams did on those games (I didnt have any part of them btw)
What TDR did was good, but they didnt do everything that was good :)
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i appreciate your large and tolerant spirit, Colin, but it is my duty, as i see it, to maintain a level of intelligence, rationality, and civility on this forum. if this ignorant little twit does not apologise, he will be banned from the forums.
[and yes, i realise that i may be departing a bit from strict civility by the intensity of the language i used; i react badly to persistent fools and do not tolerate them]
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and you're right.
...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
i said i was wrong about that about 20 post ago... have you read the topic?
I haven't said something offensive to Colin, i just said that for me the ship design is bad.
I'm 20, i know by myself if i have to excuse to Colin, and even if i want to do that, i'll do in a private way.
I haven't said "the ships are bad, STOP". I said WHY are bad.
I'm not good with english, so it's possible that something that i said is offensive, but i really didnt' want to do it. If so, i'm sorry for that.
For the TDR-question, i repeat, i'm not so good-informed about the backscene of wipEout, i just guessed the ship were of TDR because TDR did the design... i was wrong, and i said it. Amen.
You called me ignorant little twit does, fool, ignorant adolescent and so on... you don't know nothing about me, so YOU have to ask sorry for that.
I never wanted to be offensive with Colin, i just said my point of view.
And for the "ship design is a matter of personal taste", i think you're really wrong: if it was like that, how can the project leader say "this ship is ok, that is bad"? So you can make an ugly design and no one can say that is ugly. There are some things like "roundness", "good color scheme", "balance" that are absolute i think. And i repeat, when i said "bad" i said also "WHY bad".
I hope you can understand this spaghetti-english, i never wanted to offense anyone.
feiyen, I am sure that everyone had good intentions here, but the designers republic is a very delicate subject. Not many people truly realise that all TDR ever done was some pretty pictures and a fontstyle. The rest is all sony.
Lance and I have been through this before.
TDR have just supplied the icing onto the cake that is WipEout.
And even though it was just icing, it was still michelin-star worthy icing!
I think TDR done more than "a fontstyle and some pretty pictures".
They have created the "visual identity" of wipeout... i said it because it wil be my job [i hope] one day, i'm studing Industrial Design for Communication.
I can understand how it feels Colin to see TDR get merit when they didn't make the ships design, i just didn't know that! :)
About TDR, I'd like to have a precision just to make it clear in people's mind. Everybody knows that they designed the logos, packaging and interface, but were they involved in ship layouts (logo placement and painting) ? That might be where many guys here are a little confused.
Hope this will prevent from "over-venerating" TDR.
As a graphic designer, i have to admit that even if i love what they did for WO3 (IMO the best overall design), it sometimes lacked functionality : some of the letters in the menu font, ship info too tiny for tv screen application - solved in SE though - and some inrace infos not usable unless pausing the game.
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feiyen, i have read every word of every post on these forums since they began. by asking me the question, you show your own lack of appreciation for what constitutes an insult.
the only wrongdoing you admitted concerned your ignorance in thinking DR designed the ships. you did not show any recognition that your thoughts are opinions, not universal facts. the appearance of a videogame ship is most certainly a matter of taste, since the ships performance is unaffected by it. i like some of the very ones that you dislike. each person on these forums has his/her own set of aesthetic preferences, and own list of favourites and non-favourites. are you saying that only your judgement counts?
your criticism of the ship design in Pure was as follows:
''Urgh... Pure is so good, but the ship design is really really BAD! T_T
There's no one ship good looking... and also, the shadow sistem make them even more bad ;_;
They're OLD designed, un-stylish and too SMOOTH!
Too many ship with "2 arms", and the color scheme is... ''
at no point in that criticism is there anything other than your personal preferences. are you unable to see that your personal preferences do not equal 'fact', do not equal 'true for everyone'?
you say you are 20 years old, but a person's chronological age has no direct link to their level of social grace, nor their level of information, nor their maturity.
i do not care how old you are; i care about how you act in this forum, and so far, you have acted without maturity, without knowledge, without wisdom, and are clearly unable to determine when you have offended someone and when an apology is due. that is why i pointed out that your apology is owed to Colin for your own presumption of excellence and rightness, and your saying that the disigners of the ships are incompetent because they didn't design something you personally like..
''you don't know nothing about me, so YOU have to ask sorry for that.''
i know what you have stated in this topic, and it demonstrates very clearly that you are an ignorant and insulting twit. i owe you no apology for pointing out this defect in your behaviour
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please, the guy just apologised. I hate it when peeps get serious over something so trivia. I just say be greatful he even apologised, least he is a good willing to say that. Some people in this world dont even bother when they are proved wrong. Cut this guy some slack.
Wow, man.
This has gone off topic...
Um... How about that Japanese WipEout PurE site!
I sure wish I could read what it all said!
Let's move on, fellow pilots.
Let's just enjoy the newest game to our favorite series.
:D
hehehehe
*Axel slaps Vagrant with a smelly fish :P
No insult, you said me a thing that i aswered 20 post before [the TDR question], so it's normal if i ask you if you read the topic...
The critics for the crafts are clear:
- too smoothed line*
- some ships are unbalanced
- color scheme not too good
- too many ships with the 2 arms
* i think to show the potential in polygon count of PSP... mah :)
After this, maybe i've said something unpopular, but i never offence anyone, and you cannot do that to me, even if you are moderator/admin/i don't know.
without maturity, without knowledge, without wisdom, and are clearly unable to determine when you have offended someone and when an apology is due
!!!
is more "knowledge" to know that TDR didn't make the ship design, or that a ship is goodlookin or not?
i can determine when i offend someone, but i have *little* problems with english, so if i did it i ask sorry for that.
I repeat, if i have to apologize to Colin i'll do in private.
You have to apologize to me for the insults you said and still saying to me.
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i do hope that wasn't a five days dead cod :)
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this thread is about the japanese website?
oh, yes, now I'm taking a look at the topic and you're right!
We should talk about that site!
I don't know what I think about it, it looks like there aren't so many informations, and the way the ships are shown isn't very good. Another view would be better, ones like in the backgrounds. *
* that are just my opinions!! :lol:
You're so right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausehuhn
The jpgs of the crafts are too compressed, and the shading has too contrast with the background! =)
(look at the ossegoi :))
yep! and it's assegai by the way
emh... :oops:
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feiyen said:
'' too smoothed line*
- some ships are unbalanced
- color scheme not too good
- too many ships with the 2 arms''
yes, i aready quoted that before. i repeat that these criticisms are based only on your personal preferences; the characteristics are just something that you dislike; they are not fundamental absolute flaws of design. they are not characteristics that everyone dislikes. by saying that they are 'bad' design in some absolute universal sense, you are incorrect and are also insulting the people who made the designs. how would you react if someone said that your designs are 'bad'?
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it is not your relative language skill that is causing the problem; it is your feeling that your own opinions are universal truths. it is clear that you are at this phase in your life unable to see this, and that i would be wasting my time and everybody else's time and patience to pursue this discussion any further.
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back to the topic.
@ feiyen
Don't worry. I even didn't know what the NX1000 was (or will be)! :lol:
@ Lance
we were allready back to the topic! 8)
Don't mean to but in, but if you have time to waste, Lance (which really wouldn't be wasted for the use of education), you should finish your argument over PMs (not that you didn't already know that :wink: ). You really wouldn't be wasting anyone elses time if you did this. I still think that this argument shouldn't have even been started (because I'm sure that others are sure that feiyen was just giving his opinion, and hoping for others that would agree), so we should just leave it at that, ya? :)
The only thing I thought was ugly was the Pirahna, the others look alright to me. And I'm sure the Pirahna can grow on me, just like anything can, so I'm pretty much cool with all of it. "Let's just all chill together and be friends, ya?" 8) ->quote motivated by Bob Marley. :wink:
what have people got against the pirhana? It's my favourite ship of the lot. Oh well, each to their own, also out of interest, the Harimou has a very similar colour scheme to the FEISAR don't you think? 8O
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:) Mr. Roadrunner, sir, you were, but i wasn't. ;)
Chill, i already said i was finished with that discussion. there is no point in continuing in any venue to reason with someone whose ability to analyse his own thoughts is not yet sufficiently developed.
Dimension, i love every Piranha/Pirhana design there has been so far [though i thought that Fusion's was the weakest]. i think it must be that they dislike that the bulge in the front section makes the Pure version less lean and razory. but it looks a bit more fishlike. fish are the most aero/hydrodynamic creatures of all, and they pretty much generally bulge more in the front third than elsewhere
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