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Aha! I knew there must be a different boost-br spot because of all the times, how could i have missed this lol :(. I will have a little search of youtube, hopefully an AP Rev vid is there somewhere :).Quote:
and besides thats not the best place to use the boost for speed lapping/ tt,
AP Rev Speed Lap is my worst Phantom Ranking due to BSB.
I hate you BSB. :P
A theif who explains his plan is still a theif. I have no doubt that pirahpac, OBH, Yeldar, etc who use BSB are dedicated and care about WO, the fact that they post here so much shows that. I'm just saying how I feel, which I guess you could characterize as extreme but that is how I am.
I hope piraphac is kidding about leaving the forum, my opinion does not represent anyone else and while I may disagree with him on BSB and SL, doesn't mean I won't race him in a Multiplayer race (and lose). I am simply stating my 2 cents on the issue, he can ignore it if he so feels like it. He doesn't seem to like it though, but I hope that this is just an emotional outburst and not a concrete choice to leave.
I'm a little bit upset at SL for not even have thought it before adding this
"SELECT" button, I mean they should have asked us, because for instance, as
soon as I heard about the possibility to reset the time, I thought about how it
could be taken advantage of (cheat), and then I knew it was possible and
feared that someone would start using it to beat world records ... and then it
happened with pirhapac/kingheim on ubermall ...
The rest is history: people started talking about it everywhere, and normal
racers would be the losers, not knowing that such a trick could exist.
What I mean, if myself I already directly thought about it, I'm sure many others
also thought the same ... and we would have given a proper way to use the
"reset lap", there are many ways in fact, you can choose (or combine them):
- reset can only occur 5 seconds before crossing the line
- needs 3 real seconds between each reset, timer obviously starts NOT when
you push the button, but after the boost
- reset can only be used on the ground (still need to validate this)
- reset completely stops your ship for x seconds
- reset can only be used when ship is not moving (stop)
- ...
But not the way they did!
Bad idea, once on Vineta K, I went out the tracks, and did a biiiiig and vertical bounce on an building, and after reset my boost, and lot of seconds, I could boost above the startline. This was an incredible exploit ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Connavar
Could also add a distance from the starting line.
5 seconds could translate to xxx meters.
Anyway your example is more like a glitch than something
everyone can use again and again.
I'm pretty sure this is the case already since afaik BSB is only still possible on vineta, moa, uber, modesto, anulpha reverse, uber reverse :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Connavar
@ robcoxy
on AP rev use your boost just after u exit the chicane at the start, pitch up as u go over the speed pad and boost BR down the straight into the right hander. its a lot quicker than the other way because u can still get a BR off the hill and hit the 3 speed pads
I think the safest way is to allow reset when your ship is on the ground,
and maximum 80% of the track, beyond that it's the point of no return :D
Yeah, I just looked it up on Youtube :). Thanks mate ;) :+.Quote:
Originally Posted by shapealot
Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
not directed to any specific person.
It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove something
for themself and against others. Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's
obviously cheating (you name it). Let me tell you, if you get older then you
wanna have a real good and fair competition among your friends. But younger
people tend to take whatever is needed to win and they care less for their
opponents (friends?). In essence, they don't really care that much whether they
will destroy any competition using a cheat or not.
I mean, it's cool to find a glitch, cheat, etc., but saying that those are a
part of the game and that one have to master them is plain ridiculous. From
a community standpoint, those cheats don't necessarily attract new players
and may draw some old ones away. And releasing all the glitches on YT just
simply builds up one's childish iFame, and nothing else. But that kind of fame
will ever mark one as a child because one obviously didn't understand how
to treat such a situation.
I could never be true to myself using any cheat for ZONE to set a new record,
whether the game allows for it or not. That's the farthest thing I can imagine.
I like to play by the native rules. But perhaps that's just me.
@Connavar: Fully signed.
I should not drag myself into this, but oh well! :g
> Disclaimer: The following statement does not apply in general and is
> not directed to any specific person.
Well it's kinda directed to the BSB users, which basically is a list of specific people.
> It seems like that younger ppl tend to like BSB somehow to prove
> something for themself and against others.
Leungbok is one of these people. He's 9 years older than you according to these forums.
I absolutely don't know the guy, but from all his posts, it doesn't feel like he has anything to prove to anyone. He just wants to get faster.
And I don't believe he's the exception here.
> Whereas older ppl don't like it because it's obviously cheating (you name it).
"IMO" would have been nice.
>[More condescending BS]
>I like to play by the native rules.
Like the way you wrap the lines in your posts?
I believe you like to play by the rules when you like them.
IMO :g
@guillaume: For people like "you" I wrote the disclaimer. xD I don't have to
write IMO since I've explicitly ruled out any generality by the disclaimer.
Hence, the entire post was written in 'IMO'.
I'm referring to the group of BSB users, but I don't point at anyone. You mayQuote:
Originally Posted by guillaume
argue that I indirectly have to point at one (you took one, Leungbok), but
that's not true, because my statements may not hold true for anyone within
this group.
And here is where you get lost. Nevermind. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by guillaume
I have a feeling that some wish this to turn into a clash between international/english community vs the French who "discovered" this exploit (And they didn't really discover it, it was pretty much a given to anyone with an inquisitive mind that it could be done.) Yes, that includes guillaume and pirhapac. Why?
Well pirhapac threatens to leave yet again when I believe he shouldn't take RedScar's 2 cents so personally, after all we all know why pirhapac's name is at the top and it's not because of one exploit he started using. Pirhapac, if that's what you think RedScar implied, you are wrong. He said that the BSB was an exploit of the game's design, in essence cheating this design. Now RedScar might disagree with this himself, but I don't think that because you used the BSB you should be called a cheater, I think you just made a mistake following Sony Liverpool's mistake to not fool proof the boost reset method. Then you were forced to use it because it was already too late.
Now guillaume drags Leungbok into the fray, for what purpose I don't know. I don't think it helps at all pointing people and calling out names. There is absolutely no need to make a list and point people out. Those that did use it did it so that they could still get the very important (for some) feel of the competition in the Speed Lap mode. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to because of this exploit. They used it because there was no other choice, because of a mistake of Sony Liverpool people started experimenting with it. It could have been anyone, not pirhapac who first uploaded the video.
But now this discussion shouldn't even be about "who's fault is it?", it should be "what happens now?" And I think what should happen now is a wiping of all the boards where glitches/exploits have happened (Like I said, Zone Anulpha Pass, Single Races for the vast majority and Speed Lap for wherever the boost reset exploit was used.) That is fair and unbiased action. Then, Sony Liverpool should work on a way to make this feature unexploitable like it still is now. There are many suggestions here, I have one:
Put a volume encompassing all the start line grid + a hundred meters before and after it, this volume being located all around the track and in the air at a very high altitude. Then, make it so that when you are inside this volume, it is impossible to recover your boost using the boost reset feature.
Or remove this feature outright. This second solution is easier as it doesn't require patching 24 race tracks and making us download them over all again in the patch (Thus approximating to around 1GB or more of data), but it removes convenience.
Sorry to Bother you in this serious discussion, but what is "IMO"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemSolver
I'll hold further stupid questions to myself. :)
In My Opinion. You will also find IMHO, In My Honest Opinion.
I recommend you use Google to find it out if ever there's an abbreviation you don't know, it's good for this kind of stuff ;)
With respect to D777 post:
What I don't get is why SL doesn't care about this situation and the leaderboard.
I mean WipEout HD depends soo much on speed like no other game and therefor
on time, on the clock. The clock differentiates a lot of things within WipEout, so
why don't they get it right? Where are all these coders that crank the hell out of
the PS3 but aren't able to maintain a leaderboard and fix very well known glitches?
Sure, they can't show beautiful pictures over the PS Blog, but c'mon.
BSB was the reason I never was into Speed Lap, and the Anulpha Pass glitch as
well as the messed up leaderboard drew me way from this track somehow. But
that's not to say I don't like Anulpha Pass in ZONE, but I will always have that
bad feeling when looking at the leaderboard. :|
I think when OBH started the thread he didn`t mean to attack anyone, it was just a point of discussion of what is the best thing to do with the leaderboards. There is no need for anyone to throw the toys out of the Icaras over this issue.
I think just get rid of boost cancel would be the best option. After a mistake we can go round again like we always used to and most of us need the practice of a few extra laps. Then get rid of any other glitches then reset the affected tables. I don`t think it will ever happen though because I don`t think history suggests Sony think maintaining the tables is worthwhile.
Connavar is right that it could have been avoided if some top HD players had been consulted. I always thought the players would make the best testers.
Anyway all this assumes that the whole leaderboard issue with Speed Lap ranks at all on Sony`s give-a-toss-o-meter. Some people at SL might want to fix things, but nothing ever happens. Ever since the launch of Pulse there has been just one leaderboard correction. They have done nothing with HD despite wrecked single race time leaderboards and obvious totally cheated zone scores. The boards don`t even update properly a lot of the time. Every game since Pure has had some sort of major issue with the way records are recorded locally and online. I don`t think SL put such record keeping very high on the to do list compared to graphical stuff like ship and track decoration which I personally think is less important. Otherwise it would all work. The vast majority of people who buy the game never get near top times with BSB existing or not. I`m not sure that the activities of a handful of players who want to use BSB to beat each other, because they have to use it to remain competitive and trim off a few tenths, is really going to be a commercial concern and therefore I won`t be surprise if nothing ever happens anyway.
Also, IMHO = In My Humble Opinion, which is why we have its corollaries, IMNSHO and IMNSFHO.
----
Speaking of which, IMNSFHO, in this tennis game, it's Studio Liverpool's turn to serve. Arguing with each other is a waste of time and typing, since personalities do not change their type without massive damage to the frontal lobes of the brain, which generally results in non-functioning of the human involved. You're not likely to change each other's opinions.
@lunar: If they can't maintain a leaderboard then they should skew it
altogether. They should allow us to update out times to a different (public)
server. Would be cool if our records could be transmitted to Connavar page,
for example.
@Lance: Do you really think one tries do change each other's opinions
here? I think we're all a little bit upset coz fixing all the issues would take
nothing when compared to the effort SL had spent on other things within
WipEout HD. Hell, I would be fine with one track less if they fix all the
issues in return.
Problemsolver, yes, I do think that; several people have stated why they think one approach or the other, to exploit or not exploit, is or is not fair or justifiable. If they are not trying to change each other's opinions, then there is no point in arguing this to each other. The only issue remaining would be that obvious flaws should be fixed, a point on which there is probably full agreement, and which therefore is up to SL, whom are therefore the people who should be approached and convinced to fix the exploits soon.
Wow, I'm totally stunned by this 'discussion' - but it was an interesting read. And I second that, someone has to talk to SL. Who's able to do that?
btw, I think I mentioned it somewhere else here - somewhat fuzzy - before but SL and/or SCEE's communication/marketing/community/relation department sucks big time on WOHD. EOD!
Jesus ****,
Everyone needs to chillout and have a ciggie, or a durry (ask ace), or a fang, or a ****, or a pissup or something,
Need to just calm down for a sec.
Foxx might be right here, BRs have made a ****ing mess of Wipeout.
I am 19, and this is only my second Wipeout game (WO64 was my first) so I would consider myself young. That said I have been an amateur gamer in leagues such as TWL, TGL and the now defunct CAL (Amateur branch of the CPL) for a good 6 years now. Facing another team (with anywhere from 1-15 other teammates) in a semi-serious match with no prize other then bragging rights has shown me how serious even small glitchs can be to affecting the overall fairness of a match. Even in public random matches, when I see someone use a glitch I feel cheated and it detracts from my overall experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemSolver
I fully admit that I can not pull off BSB with any sort of consistency, hell even a good clean lap is still tough for me on certain tracks. Regardless though, I should not have to learn BSB to stay competitive if BSB is not an intended gameplay mechanic. This isn't me just being to lazy to take advantage of a proper game mechanic and then bitching when I can't get 1st on the record board. Even with BSB I will never make the top 10 for speed lap unless I somehow get better (which is unlikely), but it deters me from even trying knowing I will have to glitch just to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunar
QFT, the real issue that we can all agree on. SL needs to wipe the boards and find an appropriate fix to BSB.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemSolver
SL just need to comment on the situation really. I was all for removing bsb. Now i wish they'd just kept it how it was.
^ This, Either put BSB back, or reset the Single Lap records.
I'd be more for the latter.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That one sentence pretty much sums it up.
Ok this discussion is starting to piss me off. I don't see why SL would have to reset the speed lap times. First things first, I'm not using BSB, but since day one, I FULLY RESPECT and SUPPORT this TECHNIQUE. As it has been stated, you can manually use this technique with patience, dedication & work, by nosing down then up before the starting line. As some of the best pilots explained. And seriously, how can people conclude BSB times are unbeatable? Let me laugh. The only thing you need to beat BSB is TIME. Lots of it. I think a lot of people here don't realize the amount of dedication some pilot put in this game. I'm talking about 6000/7000 laps per track. 500/600 hours of gaming. Kind of "professional" status, compared to the casual gamers. I'm fed up to read "horrendous BR" or "Fkin BSB". If you don't want to compete, then go to the eliminator mode and enjoy your set of rockets. Or play Monster Hunter, or your Xbox. But if you want to compete, then fight with the best. And respect their ACHIEVEMENT.
Seriously, nobody noticed what pirahpac said or what? Anulpha pass forward, Akfurtif : 20.08 WITHOUT BSB. (and remember Wellington reached 20.24 A WHILE AGO). This simple fact proves every time is beatable. I'm fighting when I have time myself. Means never. I fully accept the challenge against BSB, because it's a simple 0.15 gap at the start. Tell me you're unable to bridge that gap during your entire lap, and I'll tell you you're LAZZY. As I said above, you guys are shooting on the best pilots in the world, who dedicated a huge part of their life to the game. I see not point in arguing if you just consider wipeout hd as a simple game. But if you really want to compete, just accept the fact wipeout HD is probably the MOST DIFFICULT OPUS in the entire serie, and get back to work. I'll continue to follow the best ghosts available at wipeoutghost.com, and one day inchallah I'll beat even the BSB ones, cos my lines will be perfect one day, with PATIENCE, DEDICATION & WORK. And I'll bridge this tiny 0.15 gap at the start. Let me introduce some buddhist thinking, as Flashback_Jack did one day; " How to become successfull? 10 000 HOURS" or "Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus 10000 times is skill." http://nanyate.com/culture/how-to-be...ul-10000-hours
Just a last thing regarding the speed lap rankings. Actually I agree on the fact that there's 2 or 3 glitched world records. Moa reverse, sol2... But they are OBVIOUS, we all know them. And of course I would like to see them erased.
... Fully agree with you mate, I've myself lowered some of my times with a lot of work & with the fantastic Icaras MkII. I'm just lacking of time, that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by XBARNSTERX
:+
Nothing more to add, mate :clap
- kanar is back, i send you a green square by mind ;)
- But I think you waste lot of time writing long (and good) posts like this, how do you want beat BSB (cheating*) records ?
- *french persiflage
Phow!
Kanar is pissed XD
;), I'm not pissed. That was only my 2 cents, as this thread is talking about my favourite mode. I'm more pissed off by the fact I've no time to play as I would like to. Not enough time to enjoy some trance music & hunt some superfast ghosts. And reach that state of trance when I'm improving, even by a tenth, one of my times.
Yes that's exactly what it's all about, but for this very short moment, you have to train for days. Not everydoby understood that. But this fugitive feeling costs gold !! 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar
I can tell you folk go out to Trance clubs on the weekend:hyper:rock
On that we can all agree, sirs :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leungbok
Thats what i play for, not for #1 place in ranking. :hyper It's pure essence of speed laping... Kanar you got the point!Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar
Disscusion is over, thank god...
ah ah kigo I'm too old for that, and my wife is listening to everything EXCEPT trance music ;). Phaeton I need some of your ghosts too lol, you fantastic speed lapper (what a moa run!). Lunar, Leungbok, kaori, and of course you crazy aussie dude, hope to race you soon my friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by KIGO
You don't?Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar
How about for the very same reason that was stated before: every single one of the times currently at the top but a sample few is attained using an exploit that is still permitted by the game's design but is obviously not allowed by Sony Liverpool, the designers of said game. Any hack, cheat, glitch or exploit in any other game is enough to have the competition resetted: stat padders in other games get their characters reset and frequently their asses banned, for example. That you or these other guys "fully support the technique" makes no difference. I praise the skill required to perform it. The technique is still an exploit and I have no respect for that in any kind of game. SL also obviously does not "fully support it", but I am sure appreciate the skill of these pilots just like I do. The best reward for these pilots would be to still be on top after a wipe of the board and the removal of the exploit.
WipEout HD should be no difference vs those other games where action is taken. These skillful pilots still used an exploit to achieve their time, that's enough to have these times taken down. And since there's absolutely no way to tell who used BSB and who didn't, an absolute and unbiased wipe is necessary. They are free to try again using conventional racing techniques without exploits. And they will because like you say, they have that much time to play the game.
^ What he said.
SL acknowledged that the BSB was a glitch/loop hole to achieve faster times and have removed the ability (on most tracks anyway) for it. This means that the existing times on the SL records with BSB gone will basically never ever be beaten again for the rest of us, which is stupid and unfair.
I have nothing against BSB by the way. It's mad fun to pull it off, but this is regarding the existing records.
And I fully agree, the actual records can't be broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by djKyoto