I dont know... It just seems so wrong.
Why arent you online on psn habib lets play somethin ;)
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I dont know... It just seems so wrong.
Why arent you online on psn habib lets play somethin ;)
cuz I don't have anything! :P
my PS3 sits there waiting for thursday!
kinda know the feeling...although, I have games like Oblivion to finish...I refuse to touch the PS3 until thursday too...
I've never been this excited since I heard that Rage Against The Machine was coming to Sydney and got to see them on both accounts here...*starts twitching*
Although I think that Pilot Assist is probably a fantastic feature for the uninitiated pilots, I also think that, if you would rely on it too much as a new pilot, it's going to take a lot longer for you to become a 'real' AG-pilot.
If Pilot Assist existed 10+ years ago when I had my first WipEout experience, I'd probably have switched it on.
But I am thankful I learned the hard way, and bit through all the beginners' frustration in 2097, and then suddenly got onto a level of true WipEout BLISS when I eventually 'got it'.
In a Qirex, even ;)
What does everyone think of Pilot Assist online now that the game is out?
I think it`s ultimately faster with it switched off. But a guy using pilot assist can beat a better player not using it, if he gets the right weapons. On Chenghou, for example, I think you can use it to blast the first hairpin and get clear, then you just need a bomb or two and you`re away. I presume you can`t lose energy except through weapon hits with pilot assist - another advantage. I`ve only used it once, to get the trophy, but you see people using it online. My kids use it and that`s great for them as they couldn`t play otherwise, but online I`ve seen some careless players just PA-ping-ponging their way around the track and beating braver players, of equal ability, who don`t like to use it. I think it should be disabled globally for online play, or it should be an option that has to be enabled by the host, with default to off, and a clear indicator that it is a pilot assist enabled/disabled race or tournament.
bleh with pilot assist you move away from the edges preventing sharper curves and a decent racing line. in my opinion if you lose to a guy with pilot assist on you have two options, use it or keep playing because after some time you'll improve and the pilot assist guy will still suck
"you" isn't meant for you ofc =)
I've played some people online who opened a lobby with a phantom tourney on all 8 tracks (forward), I thought hey, let's see if they can handle it ;) On relatively straight tracks I gained about 8 seconds per lap on them, lapping them on lap 4 usually, so, yeah, they clearly couldn't handle it. Then, when we came to Chenghou, all of a sudden they really kept up with me pretty well, which is due to the fact that I can't navigate the tricky courses like Chenghou and Sebenco that well yet, which means that due to using PA, those guys caught up to me everytime I crashed into a hard turn. So PA certainly DOES help the inexperienced, but if you are really good on a track at any given speed, you will be a lot slower with PA on because it doesn't let you cut as close to the wall as you'd like.
What I don't understand, though, is what fun they get out of playing Chenghou Phantom with PA on - it's not like they are even close to flying themselves, y'know? :?
I understood you ;) and even if you did mean me you would still have a point. :)
I`m certainly not ever going to use it online - as there`s no point to the game if you do, imo. I don`t think I`ve lost to PA, but I had a race on Vineta K where the leader was using it and it was a hell of a job to catch him as I use Qirex so don`t accelerate quickly, got shot up and caught in the pack at the start, and struggled to get clear again because of weapons, while the PA guy was away and flying like he was pissed but keeping pace almost enough to win. I`m not asking anyone to cry for me, but I don`t think races should be decided like this. I agree with those who say that online shouldn`t be elitist, but there should be standards.... and people shouldn`t win unless they have earned it.
Honestly, I don't worry about it at all. 99% of the people playing online are no competition, with or without PA, and the 1% that's good is most likely on wo'zone, and will be playing HD online in the long run - and they don't use PA, never would.
Btw I don't mean to sound cocky here, it's just that most people online who are playing Rapier or Phantom (= races I might enter) haven't even bothered to try and learn the game at Venom...
Thats a very good point, I always thought I kinda sucked at WipEout despite my love for it, but I have lost about 2 races online! If I come up against any of you guys it will be handed to me but until then i can feel good!
Not using pilot assist btw
I have just done some experiments offline, with PA on, because i had the same adventure than you, El, with guys choosing phantom class. I choose chengou reverse that i only raced 2 times online in fast lap mode (despite i don't know the track, my best time after 4/5 laps is 26.29). Some of you mates, who started to know this track, will be able to judge if the help is significant.
I'm totally new to Wipeout (HD is the first game I've ever played in the series) and one of the first things I did after downloading it was turn off pilot assist. It just seemed unnecessary to me. I still crash into walls all the time, but I've won tons of online races in Rapier class.
I think it's just a matter of learning the tracks.
Quite a few neogaff'ers irritated with the Pilot Assist, which they think is a clear advantage to average-ability players.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...335458&page=43
I haven't had much time to play WOHD at all yet (with or without Pilot Assist). But from what I have seen so far, my feeling is that (1) it's a great addition to the game; but (2) there should be a larger penalty for its use. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to have an automatic 3-5% speed reduction associated with PA (even when it's not pushing you away from a side wall).
I agree with you, Frances, and with eL. It`s true that the top 1% need not be troubled by PA because they will be faster without it and beat PA users without it (unless we have some nasty surprises about what PA can do on the technical courses). However, a lot of keen players will never be in that top 1%, do make mistakes, and maybe they feel they are getting beaten undeservedly by PA users. It would be ironic if in an attempt to make wipeout less elitist, only the elite could overcome the mechanism put in place to make it less elitist. Or would that be a paradox? *Dictionary time*
Say a new online FPS came out, with an auto-targeting system that enabled inexperienced players to lock on to nearby enemies at 75% of the speed of a top player, without having to do anything. This wouldn`t worry the top players, and might enable people like me who utterly suck at FPS games to have a go online, but for those who weren`t so good, but who still wanted to play the game "properly" and play the game using their own skills it would be unfair.
I forgot to turn off PA (Was getting the trophy) for an online Phantom race on Moa Therma. Needless to say, I lost because I had to turn it off. Next race I owned them all. Pilot Assist doesn't help me, and doesn't help them either (Well it does, but they never win because of it).
i don't see why there simply isn't an option for the host to turn off pilot assist for all participating users. and then out in the lobby, they could have a filter option for rooms that do allow it and those that don't. that way, people who support or oppose the idea of other racers using it could each have their own space to play.
Lunar:"....Say a new online FPS came out, with an auto-targeting system that enabled inexperienced players to lock on to nearby enemies at 75% of the speed of a top player, without having to do anything...."
Yeah and new tekken where you would have an auto-combo system....
Tekken already has an auto-combo system. It's called "button-mashing".
(:
@Lunar: an ironic paradox?
When I first installed HD, I was asked about turning on PA, now with the exception of the trophy, I won't be using PA myself for two reasons.
Reason 1: PA doesn't allow me to make daring manouvers in races such as BR boosting the last straight of Moa Therma and the like, if I screw up, its my fault and thats the risk I run for racing the way I do.
Reason 2: I have always found the autopilot tends to disengage in harsh corners, not drive through packs of mines and bombs or even try and ram opponents in a tight pack. If its the same AI system then methinks I'll be turning that particular feature off lol :D
I just made a test's online with El-habib. Phantom no weapons tournament with 6 tracks (3 easy ones : moa therma etc. & 3 tortuous ones : sol2 reverse, chengou ...). I used pilot assist (for once, i swear;) )and El without PA. On the easy ones, i was 3/5 seconds behind, but on the difficult sol2 reverse (i must precise i don't know this track and i hit lot of walls) i was just 1/2 seconds behind El with 2 or 3 perfect laps.
On these kind of track it's a huge help, i think.:(
True, PA helps a lot on twisty tracks.
@lunar: I agree with your post. the elite must not be worried about PA, but the aspiring advanced player without PA might have a considerable disadvantage against a noob with PA. The easy solution to this problem would be, like was said, to penalize PA use constantly with a 5% speed loss.
@bakkufu: you know you can now cut off the Autopilot anytime by pressing absorb, right?
yes, but given the daftness of the autopilot in past Wipeouts, I'd rather get a full absorb out of them rather than use them lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
So, only one solution, make part of the elite :gQuote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
@ bakkufu HDs auto pilot is actually quite good, yes it's like the old days where it magically seems to be able to fly the ship faster than the player even while missing speed pads it can catch and pass other Elite difficulty AI ships.
More on the topic. I did not realize PA worked this way in that a player can turn it on once they join an online game. This should be controlled by the host, I might have overreacted on a few things in the past but this really is just nonsense, end of story.
I had sworn I wouldn't use pilot assist, but it just saved my behind and got me a bronze medal in a rapier time trial on Sol 2 (I was a staggering four seconds short without PA, after several attempts). Even on lower speed classes I spend most of my time slamming into or scraping against walls on that damn track - even with the most maneuovrable craft.
I'm finally starting to get the hang of Chenghou Project (still making contact with the wall on that first sharp corner more often than not though), so now Sol 2 is really the only track I hate :p. Well, that and to some extent Sebenco Climb in races, as the AI - even on novice - seems to handle that track unusually well. I actually have an easier time on Sol 2 when I'm up against them - despite all the wall scraping and slamming :).
You're going to love Sol 2 Reverse then :D
/sarcasm.
I agree Rapier, i think it's worst than respawn. There's a huge number of phantom games in which, players using PA, chooses the most technical tracks (for example, sebenco reverse) just for "pêter plus haut que son cul", french expression which means approximatively "to fart at a higher level than his butt". To chose for playing online a class and a track that someone's don't master really, , let see an unfair and twisted behavior. I won a race hosted by a PA user, in phantom on sebenco that the name was "Elite-killer07" (a joke, not sure !:naughty) I'm persuaded that most of zoners will have no problem to win against those guys, but for fair and talented newcomers in HD, it can be very frustrating. There was disagreements here about "jay's mod" and "barrel rolls", but both were about skilled pilots points of view, with PA the discuss is about unskilled ones. I love this game, and i understand the politics of enlarging the players mass. I like that a lot of people plays wipeout, but to give immédiatly access to the usualy long time training's category, can killed the interest in the game for a lot of new players. Where's the proud feeling we feel when we finally manage all the difficulties in the game ? Another french sentence : "�* vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire" - "a win without danger is a win without glory". PA must be very penalised (no points & rewards for example) and need the option of disable it online.
I hope my awfull english haven't morphed my message
Is this a joke? :dizzy
"just got that 99 lap speed run trophy. i wasn't willing to actually sit down and play through it so i taped the X button down, played on phantom difficulty, and put on pilot assist and walked away for 30 minutes; worked like a charm."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=2112
Ha!
Knew it would happen!
With PA you can drop the controller and walk away...
A shield energy penalty might be nice on PA (it turns you away, but costs some speed and shield) but then on TT races you've got infinite shield so that wouldn't fix it.
Nah, good hack to get a cheap trophy without effort. Anyone who enjoys something earned without effort likely deserves what they get. 8 D
Sadly this is true, I tried it out for some laps on Venom and it works perfectly well, albeit some falls sometimes. I don't know if it works on Phantom. However I assure you that if you do just that (Tape the X button and leave pilot assist on) you won't be doing record times anytime soon. ;)
99 Laps is 99 Laps, I don't see that tape trick as a problem - though it is a slightly less ethical way to earn that trophy.
I got my lapped out trophy trying to beat Zico's time, and 99 laps weren't even enough :P
Lenugbok: I fully agree with your post. Pilot Assist shouldn't be allowed for online, IMHO. Do the training first, THEN get online. Noobs pretending to race on Phantom with PA is just ridiculous, even more so when they actually win against rather skilled players who don't use PA.
Agreed.
So hopefully we'll see that with further patches. Along with the Disable Option for BR.
Btw: Wouldn't it be nice to have small indicator in the online selection whether BRs / PA / Headsets are active in the race?
this sounds like common sense :)Quote:
Originally Posted by captain howdy
I think the number of Pilot assist players is just filth,
I always seem to be the only person who plays without it and when i get cusses for crashing and i reply ' you use PA' its like WW3... If your gonna be honorable about a game at least PLAY IT HOW ITS MEANT TO BE PLAYED.
I cannot stress enough how GB (Game-breaking) this is that on tracks such as as somin climb (lol) There are 2 corners which are incredibly hard to take on phantom yet on noob assist they just gracefully go around the corner without a care in the world, hell if someone with PA is in first you have no chance of getting them as they cant crash unless they pilot like a retard.
A solution would be if you use PA at all in a race you cannot be ranked or anything in that race count towards a trophy, that would sure deter the noobs :)
Just my 2cents :p
Proud pilot of the Piranha without PA! :D
I agree, pilotassisted noobs are numerous online. They generally chooses phantom races on the most technical tracks (sol2 reverse for ex.). When i first played online i was very frustrated to be beaten by those kids on tracks i didn't knew well. After that, when i learned the tracks, i had fun in beating them, by 10s or more, because the speed without PA is really higher if you don't hit the walls. But now, it becomes boring to meet a lot of these online, because there's no compétition. Hey Sl, a good feature were to disable the using of PA in phantom class. It's a good thing that newcomers have the possibility to learn the game more easily, but it's a sort of introduction, no ? It don't need to be usefull beyond rapier. I always read on wipeout's booklets that phantom's speed was the experts class. Can we call a pilotassisted guy an expert ;)? (except if he beats a time trial world's record using PA, of course:g)
that is probably the best suggestion I have seen for pilot assist.
disable it across the board in phantom. love it :)
My attempt to play with the Pilot assist on was bad. I achieved far better times with it off. I think it is a feature to get people slightly used to the controls and learn how to keeping the ship straight. :nod
That is a very good idea, to block it from even Rapier and above. Too many PA users having a easy time on Senbenco. God I hate that track lol.