Yeah, that's probably the underlying subconscious reason why I don't care too much about this so-called mod - it's not like any of my times will be threatened.;):g
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Yeah, that's probably the underlying subconscious reason why I don't care too much about this so-called mod - it's not like any of my times will be threatened.;):g
This is complete bullshit and I will not do it.
You can nose down manually, you know.
I'm very disappointed that I'm racing with some cheaters online.
Whatever - its like an extra challenge.
If you beat me I hope it doesn't feel that good and if I beat you I hope it makes you feel worse.
nosing down manually the entire race is about as fun as cleaning out a chicken coup. It plays better taped down, but I agree in the future, this should not be in the game. The ship should move fastest when perfectly parrallel to the track which is what the pitch was used for in the first place
You can certainly hold your own online regardless. :+Quote:
Originally Posted by packetmon
packetmon 100% I agree with You
Come on guys, this is basically a cheat no matter how you look at it. I totally agree with packetmon.
What do you want guys : you prefer not to reveal that tip and those who used it years ago keep it for themselves and you can't explain why pilots who were racing slightly slower than you on previous wipeouts can beat you easily 15 min after you spotted a new record on Pulse. Now i can understand why.
Sorry to say that but a bad pilot won't turn into great one only by that tip ON. The gain is not so awesome. it's not like an infite turbo autopilote.
Again i find that tip stupid ( in contrario it gives the game a so much awesome feeling) but if no ones talk about that what do you think? this mess will be reproduced again for HD and later games then like Al , Jay or I said previously we want SL will let that tip useless ( reduce speed while reaching a uphill for instance).
I don't agree with this tip, because for me video games have to play with fingers, and only fingers.
(it's not valid for Nintendo Wii or Eye Toy or dance game. :D)
SL is nice, they let you the choice to play with D-Pad or stick, and some players do like they have three hands. An human non-genetically modified can't naturally play with the stick and D-pad at the same time. If anyone breaks his finger to push up the stick, respect, but it is more legitimate, but I would still disagree.
Do you imagine you playing Wipeout HD with a big rubber band stretched your toe to stick on your controller?
The solution for the future is to activate only the D-pad or stick, and desactive this one that not use.
Now the time displayed on wipeoutgame.com are wrong for me.
Know only that most french players and the bests don't use this tip online.
I respect the fact that this tip makes driving better, makes the game more enjoyable, but in the context of competition and rankings, we should not use it.
Thank you. +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Asayyeah
Maybe now that SL's team is now "All Wipeout all the time" some of the other devs could suggest that the tip will be gone in future games. Ditto for barrel rolls. I hope.
"The solution for the future is to activate only the D-pad or stick, and desactive this one that not use."
Do you really want to play this sort of game trying to hold the stick foward all of the time? It is not fun at all trying to do this, and agree with arnaud that foward should not increase speed, that would solve the entire thing. Just to reiterate, this game sucks trying to hold that nose foward all of the time, so why not just tape it up. It actually plays better anyway. It is possible by the way to not use tape and do this, so only those people that can do this would have the advantage then, so why not let everyone use it.
On a side note, wipeout certainly was not made for a dpad, hence the entire stupid pitch foward problem, either full turn or none at all, so every time you move to the left a millimeter the ship goes all over the place
No offense intended, Packetmon-- you are a superb Wipeout pilot-- but this seems kinda extreme!Quote:
Originally Posted by packetmon
I have no intention to implement this "mod" myself but for ****'s sake, guys, this involves a piece of tape and an intended (if unfortunate) in-game racing mechanic. This is small stuff compared to the modifications that ROUTINELY have been done to controllers in most racing games, including racing games with large online communities. Do you really think this is cheating?
Anyway-- where the hell is Rob? It would be good to have his opinion stated on this matter :)
Pitching down to increase (air) speed is consistent with real world aerodynamics. I personally don't take issue with the effect as it is, manually operated, but my input on this whole speed mod thing is that it makes my ship handle weirdly compared to the usual bouncy nature of the AG-SYS that I'm accustomed to, so I'm not immediately inclined to try it beyond the few laps I ran with it on.Quote:
Originally Posted by JABBERJAW
All the while, to think that this is what's required to push my laps even harder assuming everything else falls into place, I may eventually adapt, but truth be told -- I'm not a fan of it.
- F
"Pitching down to increase (air) speed is consistent with real world aerodynamics."
Only if one is diving an aircraft into a sustained elevation drop. Otherwise, pitching while moving forward on a level would cause increased form drag resistance by changing the craft's attitude relative to airflow. Aircraft are designed to produce minimum air resistance and maximum velocity in level flight, so any variation from that will cause a speed loss. Once a sustained dive is established, the craft is again level relative to the airflow and additionally has the acceleration of gravity, which is what actually increases speed.
Ya, its really funny Frances_Penfold.
People put thousands of laps down to place high and along come those with disrespect unbridled to post jacked times not only on wipeout-game but wipeoutzone.
Oh wait... we have to hear from Rob to see if its cheating.
With all due respect Rob, if you think this is not cheating or whatever they want to call it and allow "it" on the boards then please delete my record entries along with my account.
Make a separate record table for every mod that makes the game "play better".
I'll learn some basic french terms and join Kaori and others on the french site.
I've taken a look at some of KANDANGs times and they are plausible.
I don't know the dude so I have no idea if he is cheating.
But take for example Fort Gale White.
I've hit 24:60s on the first lap and 23:70s on subsequent laps.
Do the math - its just a matter of running all the laps right and I don't have a clue what kind of advantage an Icaras would provide because stupid whore Sony still owes me one.
It's no more cheating than re-wiring the buttons on a negcon is to assist your performance.
Linky (Martin Linklater, who was lead programmer on Pure) explained to me that it was merely a side effect of the way he'd written the anti-gravity generator. It has a downward force, and when you tip the ship forward you angle that force and it drives you forward.
I have no dice with that, because Linky attempted to give WipEout real-world based physics for the first time on a brand new platform, and for that he should be commended.
The fact that some folk have taken the slim advantage to extremes is neither here nor there - it cant be policed, so we have to rely on the honour system prevailing on a personal level - if somebody does think it's a cheat, then don't use it and bathe in the warm glow of contentment. But be prepared for the fact that not everyone will share your world view.
// is convinced we've been through this before with another game.
What is "Wip3out", Alex?
Hmm.... searches memory...Quote:
Originally Posted by infoxicated
Quite possibly! :g
Wipeout-Game is ****ed beyond all recognition due to CFW and software-based mods, so that's no fault of some small controller modification.Quote:
Originally Posted by packetmon
I apologize-- I'm not trying to make light of the situation-- I also race laps 1000's of times to get the perfect line through a course. I don't plan to use the speed mod and who knows, it may cost me some rankings.
But the effect of this speed mod is really small-- I tried it and couldn't see any noticeable effect. It's certainly much, Much, MUCH smaller an effect than the results of practice on these tracks.
I mean, look at the lap rankings in Pure-- Asayyeah and Mad-Ice sit perched at the top, generally some 0.5 to 2 seconds ahead of the nearest competitors, with no speed mod or other cheating employed. If I practice and practice and practice a given track, I can get times that are 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th place. If I want to break that barrier, I need to practice more and hit more consistent barrel rolls-- that is much more important than using the "speed mod" if you are already using some pitch control, as most of us are.
Also, no offense to our very talented pilots here, some of whom are diligent at posting times even when they haven't had a chance to refine their runs at a particular track. But the folks that have used the speed mod-- well, they aren't exactly sitting atop the charts, are they? There is no evidence that using the mod has put them at an unfair advantage.
Anyway, that is my $0.02. Here is hoping that nothing like this is a factor for Wipeout HD ;)
If I may:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances_Penfold
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=30
Prior to that accomplishment, I was sitting at the top of that table for at least two months (my run was virtually flawless; a mere half second separates us). Immediately after said mod was announced, I was subsequently throttled on other tracks I held first place positions on as well. Metropia White Phantom (race) and Vertica White Phantom (race) to name two. The one thing I can tell you for certain is that after the mod was made known, there was a noticeable flurry of activity on the record tables that saw either myself or Kandang shifted out of first place positions at a rate incomparable to what happened before it.
I said before I'm not a fan of this mod, and I may not need it to secure top spots on most tracks, but if I comes down to having to adapt and use it, reluctantly I will.
- F
Frances: then why can't we say the same about Custom Firmware? I'm sorry folks but let's just forget the fact that Colin and Egg come over here and may not like such discussion (specially if it involves illegal activities, which I understand) for a few seconds and think about it...
Does 333Mhz really provided that much of an advantage? Like you said for the speed mod, is it the 333Mhz that makes the pilot better, or constant practise, hitting all the BRs (If you practise enough, you can get them all without 333Mhz), finding the perfect racing line, etc.?
All I'm trying to do is make you realize that you simply can't ban one and take the other. That is completely contradictory.
(****, that was Wipeout Pulse)
Xavier, 333 is much better on single race mode, because it is so choppy. but in Time trial, in pulse, there is not much of a difference. However, One method is changing the game, the other is just changing the input.
for the people against this mod, would you rather have it that I am the only one able to do it due to my stupid idiot way of holding the psp? Or for anyone to be able to do it and be on an equal playing field? You certainly could not ban someone who could hold the psp in such a way as to hold the analog stick foward all the time, and drive with the dpad.
this is just another example however of why the physics should try to resemble the older games, so this does not happen.
Rob, were you talking about going through walls? or brake tapping?, both, something else? :)
Yes, I'd personally prefer if you were the only one to do it. Why? Because you are actually holding it, and not using some piece of paper (Or tape, etc.).
Also because it's funny when you drop the PSP :g
From what I understand Al has the weirdest hand stucture of any man alive :eek
Brake tapping ... who's got that stupid idea ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JABBERJAW
;)
no more slipping xavier, tape on the leg to hold other side of the psp (woohooo).
Err... truth is that I should have payed more attention to the Pulse tables before commenting on long-term effects of the mod :( Mostly I play Pure these days, which has a longer history but fewer active players. From what you describe, it does seem that the mod is having some effect for the highest ranked players at Pulse. I still doubt that it's a big deal outside of the very top ranks because there are multiple seconds separating out folks across the length of the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashback Jack
Just echoing what Jabberjaw said-- running at 333Mhz really changes any part of the game suffering from frame rate problems, e.g., single races, because barrel rolls are frame rate dependent. The effect on time trials is much more modest, of course. Personally, I think that modification to firmware or software is a profoundly different issue than a controller modification because the latter is something that CAN be achieved by an unaltered controller if one had the desire to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
In any case, the WOZ community seems to have a truce regarding the CFW/OFW issue, whereas people are really upset about using a piece of tape to hold the "up" button down. So if we are being "consistent" I would say that both should be allowed in the tables ;)
i have talked to few members here about CFW and WZ tables : most of them think like me , we shall maybe authorize CFW into the tables, since now many psp owners are using CFW.
But it's not into my hands but Rob yes
First of all; my respect goes out to Flashback_Jack and his records on Talons Junction White and Metropia White (TT) made without the tip. But my question is: do you use CFW or not?
Even before this tip I was having top spots too on the record tables of Wipeout-game.com. I really would like to know if KANDANG is using this tip and CFW or not? But anyway, now that this tip is out we will never know who is using it or not. I think with so many people using CFW and maybe this tip too we will have difficulties to determine which record is made with or without CFW or with or without the tip. What I do know is: if you are using the tip, you will have the possibility to come really close to the lowest possible time. So if everyone is using this you will never have doubts whenever your records are beaten whether this person is using it or not.
So if everyone can cheat in the same way and they all have the will to do so, there will be a level playing field. I see.
^^
Well, do you have a better solution? ;)
As an aside, I grimace a little to hear the taped-nose-tip and CFW described as cheating, I think that is an overstatement.
I don't have the will. I can't be bothered. Which also means I don't plan to enter my Pulse records any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Competing in the WO3 tables was fun. Even if I never flied through walls I stood a chance in many circuits.
Competing in the PSP tables doesn't sound like it is fun. It sounds like a chore. I'll simply play the games for the fun of it and forget about records.
Rant over. :(
I'm neither for or against the approval of both. Either way I will be perfectly happy (I will still come here, regardless of the fact that I'm allowed to post records or not, as I have done from since the time I registered). The only thing I'm going for is "equal treatment". CFW and that mod provide you with a certain advantage. The real question we have to ask ourselves now is: "Should we allow the players that have one or both advantages to post records here, or are only OFW-No Mod records the way to go?" Considering the previous answer to that question regarding CFW alone, I think the answer is that OFW and No Mod is the way to go. But again that is up to Rob to decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I have one request however: it's that Mad_Ice removes his 'modded' times for the time being. They have sparked much controversy and I too agree with the fact that it is a bit of a low punch to Flashback_Jack who has not used this mod.
Not necessary. I shall overcome, eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkdrium777
- F
While I agree with Xeik re-the pleasures of competing on Pulse tables at the moment, I want to applaud the honesty of guys like Mad-Ice, Asa, Al and Task who openly discuss this "speed mod". These are the kind of people who make these tables work because they are more interested in fair play than glory. Mad-Ice could have just submitted his times and kept quiet about how he got them, but he didn`t. What could anyone have done about it? He would put himself in a strong position on the tables, but instead came here and discussed it openly. Keeping quiet is a good enough strategy for some, but Mad-Ice is an honest person, as is Asa. Sometimes the honest people get picked on for their honesty; that`s the way of the world. I want to thank them for discussing issues that need to be discussed, including the cfw issue.
Rob has already said that the tape thing was legal, so noone should have to remove their times. It has also been said the game is not supposed to be played at 333, so unless he changes his mind, that is what we can enter atm.
In a nutshell, that`s about it, yes :)
Why don't you just use a pin? Holds better (in any direction you want the nub to point) and can easier be positioned/ removed. :nod
http://localhostr.com/files/832229/pin1.jpg
http://localhostr.com/files/183e20/pin2.jpg
http://localhostr.com/files/94d411/pin3.jpg
I'd rather not keep it in my pocket, though. :D
Al: But is the game supposed to be played with the tape/paper/whatever gimmick or contraption you use blocking the analog stick forward? I think not.
You are free to do as you please however, and play this game with the thing taped, just as snaking in F-Zero gives you a speed boost, just for the sake of competition. But is this really what WipEout is about? Competition for the sake of competition? Can't we just have some fun playing together, competition being second to that? This type of thing will only increase rivalries if we allow it, and do we need to be stressed when talking to each other? I think not. Here we are discussing this in a civil manner. Do you think this could happen if we had tense rivalries between each other? No.
However as I said do as you please, but I hereby announce that I will take no part in it. Should such a 'mod' be present in any way shape or form in the next conventions, put me on the list of those 'absent'. Meeting you guys is a real pleasure, but I fear that such pleasure will be destroyed for the sake of achieving the best time or coming in first...
Let me put it differently one more time, and this is I believe the real true vision I have of this game. I think that WipEout, being competitive and all that, is special because we get to meet each other, and the game should be more about pushing ourselves forward to get more out of the game, and enjoy more of the time we spend chasing ourselves furiously on the tracks. I think that all games should be fun first, and competitive second. Some people may disagree, and I respect that, but that's just how I see it. And especially with Wipeout. The conventions I think are the perfect example: they're fun; and then they're a tournament. I honestly believe it's not the way around, and I certainly hope it will never become like that.
While I'm certainly good at the game and enjoy the fact that in some places I'm in the top ten on WipEout Game, I am being honest when I say that I enjoy more the time I spend reaching this record. If you're doing records for the sake of records, I don't think it's right... Same thing with my Uncharted Platinum trophy. Yes, I am happy that I got it. But I think I enjoyed more my four playthroughs through the game than the moment I heard the small chime and saw the "You have earned a Trophy: Platinum" message. In fact I am pretty damn 110% sure I did.
One thing I would like to see is for people to try something before they say it is crap. The game really does play alot better this way, because you can still overide the foward motion, and you don't have to constantly hold the stick foward, which sucks playing that way. just save on a diff mem card. Jay was already using this mod at my tourney, and I do not feel like telling him to take off the tape.
seriously though, if this is not used, everyone will try and constanly hold that damn dpad foward all of the time, and we all know how much fun that is, meaning none. If it is disallowed at the tourney, I can do it anyway without tape (and no more falling off my leg!!), so it should be allowed for everyone. this also takes away some of the horror of playing wipeout with a dpad
One thing I do not get though is the argument about best times, all it does is make everyone's best time 2-5(if you never push foward) seconds faster if you just put the tape on, so it is not degrading anything, just wastes some more of your time trying for records.
On a side note about fzero snaking, that makes the game play really f'ing stupid, and it looks terrible, which is why I don't play it, especially after i watched Eric race that way. Ask him for my first reaction quote :)