But I already own Wipeout XL.
Anyway, back on topic...
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But I already own Wipeout XL.
Anyway, back on topic...
Hi all!
As all of you, I'm a big WipEout fan, I 've played all the wipe games (except Wipe64) and you may even see me on the wipeout-game.com boards.
I come every day to read your thoughts and expectations about the future WipEout HD (hs: give us a release date!!!).
I'm so surprised about your reaction Infoxicated!I mean, I understand your point of view about the (sometimes abusive) use of weapons, but not about the BRs. As a true pilot ;), I play with the inside view and I enjoy each BR I make (well... when it works!) This is what I call an adrenalin rush!
When I play WipEout Pulse, I still recognize the game I've been playing for hours!
That's why I can't wait to see WipEout HD and, even more, the future WipEout PS3.
Don't get me wrong Infoxicated, I respect your point of view, it's just that I don't understand.
(ps:excuse my english, it's not my mothertongue!;))
A lot of people feel that this game just feels nothing like the older versions. I'm one of them. I do like this game, but it is not floaty at all like the old ones, like what was said 8 years ago. Newbies would not even notice this difference, so I just don't understand why the physics cannot be like the older games, which are much more advanced, and difficult to master. Hopefully the ps3 wipeout 3 will be like the old ones, but I'm not holding my breath. I am a little torn on the barrel roll thing. If the game was floaty like the old games, I wouldn't even want it at all, but with pure and pulse, it does speed the game up, although that could be rectified with a speed increase. It is kinda stupid to have to get that barrel roll in to get the best times(I have to get on the edge of the track to get high enough for the roll kinda thing), instead of a good racing line. That being said though, I hate sideshift the most by far, this feels exactly like fzero turning and wrecks the physics of using the brakes correctly. I like pulse alot more than pure though, because of the faster acceleration after weapon hits.
I think you answered your own question there. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JABBERJAW
Wipeout isn't a game to be side-thought... Wipeout is the game of my life. I have no other memories with any other series as much as Wipeout, because it drew me into the series unlike any other series... so I can't just say I would just go to the next game on the shelf!! That would mean a lot more to me than just another game... Wipeout my-as-well be a religion for me...
BRs are unrealistic, sideshift is unrealistic, and without the bounce, it no longer feels as free and fun as the past PS1 Wipeouts (my definition of the series so far)... You could bounce so much higher, mabye that's why the toned it down, because the BR would've been used so much when bouncing... but like I said, BRs would never work, and I feel that the float is worth more than the BR, by far... I'd rather have the Wipeout 3 Speed-tactics than BRs, honestly... but I can't lose Wipeout, it's too badass to go away.
Remember, the reason Wipeout still exists today are because of the original versions, which are great.
EDIT: Part of the Negcon topic coulda gone with this...
Oh boy, the meer suggestion you hint at! That floatyness has been compromised for the sake of Barrel rolls :p If the were actually the case...
Oh yeah look at that 2000th post and what not :) cake please.
Congrats on the 2k. Let's hope the candle on the cake doesn't heat up the discussion tOO much. ;)
[insider]Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
candle! CANDLE! 2000 CANDLES for you RR!!
[/insider]
I think you answered your own question there.
"Master" being the key word. It is no more difficult to play with those physics, just more difficult to get really good times(master)
I'll argue that it's also about preference as well.
WO1 is one of my stronger games. For awhile I thought lunar, Medusa, and Asayyeah weren't going to touch some of my times (and I was wrong! XD) yet I am getting KILLED in the Pulse TT challenges.
Sideshifts can help you get around tight hairpins if you've run out of room, but I speak for everyone who has raced Outpost 7 that just one or two double taps won't get you around a hairpin without planting your nose into the barrier. Especially at Phantom speed. I think the effect of sideshifts with regards to handling is being slightly exaggerated.
And I think we're diverting from the topic of BRs just a bit...
Yeah, but I have just one thing about the whole sideshift thing, sorry... but doesn't anyone realize that the sideshift has always been possible throughout the PS1 series? It has, you just make a very quick transition from your main air-brake to the other one, then back again, turning with them... only it makes more sense because the craft catches a quick gust of wind during this period which in turn forces it to the side... and unlike the delayed unkown reaction time in Pure and Pulse on Phantom, it actually helps a lot if mastered right... so the newer releases seem to have less thought behind what could really happen then the previous in the series, which matters quite a bit to me... especially seeing a BR, I just don't understand how that would work... I have to see truth in something before I can think it looks cool, getting the turbo boost afterwords definately doesn't make any sense either...
You want some truth with your BR? Some scientific reasoning behind why doing a cartwheel could make you go faster? No problem Chill, I'll just pull out my copy of the FX300 league manual...
Do you like BR now?Quote:
Originally Posted by FX300 League Rules and Regulations
I still think it kind of bites. 8 )
Sounds a bit too much like those stupid ''kudos points'' for cornering style in Project Gotham Street Racing on the Xbox. Ruined what would otherwise have been a pretty good game.
Hold on.
Nobody told me the FX300 Rulebook was on sale! [/offtopic]
I think that's the closest thing we'll come to a definite reason why BRs = Turbo.
Wait... how can their be a rule book for something set in the future?? I think some people get ahead of themselves a bit just to cover their own ass, lol... ;)
except it's not faster to make turns, and does not work anywhere near the same wierd way as the sideshift of pure and pulse.
But slowing down is the nature of catching that gust of wind and moving yourself to the side, because your entire craft acts like one big wing for a moment... so slowing down naturally would happen.
Now, if someone could explain the physics of pure and pulses sideshifts, that would be nice... otherwise, making something up that couldn't work is not for me... and please don't let any physics get all outlandish or anything... like a jet pushed from the side. Their couldn't be jets on the side... that would be too much side-weight to be easily damaged... as well as the flap flies you away from that side within the quick two flap movement, cause their's no way that little airbrake flap could create a movement as great as that...
thrust vectoring?
gravity field manipulation? (ie: momentary rotation so the gravity field pulls the ship to one side)
Anyway... I'll have to look into those Lion... ;)
But one more thing about BRs... why were they included in Zone mode?? I honestly can't stand it when I accidtently do a BR in zone mode and their goes a whole load of energy that could have got me that much further... as well as thrusting me into a wall... :brickwall
hmm! a 'perfect' excuse for the BR bug in single player .. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Task
yes, a lot more sence. we used to call it counter-breaking back in the days and I used it a Lot even in 2097 and wo3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill
chill said:
"and please don't let any physics get all outlandish or anything... like a jet pushed from the side. Their couldn't be jets on the side... that would be too much side-weight to be easily damaged... as well as the flap flies you away from that side within the quick two flap movement, cause their's no way that little airbrake flap could create a movement as great as that... "
There must be something like a jet pushed from the side, and a little airbrake flap could create a movement as great as that. :)
had to, sorry
yes JABBERJAW I have to agree, it's like saying a Harrier Jump Jet can't do a Vertical take off
many things are possible, if Anti Grave Engines are possible then I think side thrusters are possible
Churr
-Stevie
Small airbrakes can have a big effect. Why? > The higher the speed, the more effective airbrakes, rudders, and other control surfaces become; this is because the air pressure on the surfaces increases, but the racecraft's mass does not, so at high speeds even a small control surface can have a big effect with even a small deflection. Things change when speed goes high enough to reach the zone of the speed of sound, where large surfaces are required. This is why you see sonic and supersonic jet planes using designs where the entire stabiliser moves. The instability of the airflow in the sonic region reduces the effect of control surfaces because of airflow separations.
i think it would be sick if you had to twist the controller or jerk it or something to do a barrel roll.
that is, assuming ur not using the sixaxis for sole control of the ship. but still, i would love that
:o Hmmm... ok, but if that's the case, why should one extension of the Air Brake prepare it for a turn, and two extensions in a row make it move to the side??
I suppose side-jets or possible, but I don't know if that should effect a craft next to you within a race or not... it would probably push it over or something right? And then their would go a BR... :lol and it would sound like a bit of wasted energy...
Your mean JABBERJAW!!!! ;)
An airbrake applied on one side produces a drag along the longitudinal axis of the ship; it doesn't move the ship to the side but only applies a torquing force that produces yaw, which is a rotation around a vertical axis of the ship in the same vertical plane [geometrically speaking] as the airbrake but at the center of the ship. No application of the airbrake can produce a true sideshift in which the entire ship moves sideways equal amounts at both ends, in other words with no steering input, just shifting sideways. The game Killer Loop has a true sideshift like that.
Presumably, the double press of the airbrake button does not activate the airbrake at all, but controls another mechanism. The brake button is probably used just because the PSP doesn't have enough buttons to give each function its own button.
Lateral thrusters that apply side force in a balanced way could work on a Wipeout racecraft, and if the body of the thruster is pretty much fully within the body of the ship, with only the opening of the thrust jet exposed at the side, it's not going to catch on anything.
Do that on the speedpads and you got my airbrakes technique of getting higher speed on XL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill
To Rob : last wipeout convention for you :eek I cannie believe this, let's talk about that in front of a pint of lager at Dam
I made the same guess lance, which opens some interesting doors for movement control in WipEout HD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
if we can sideshift one way while airbraking on the opposite side, what will the ship's behaviour be? my guess is some seriously fun, and very controlled drift.
Perhaps those that toured SL can let us know if the controls could be mapped to allow that?
That would make more sense... I made that assumption about the side openings of the jet being on both sides rather than seperate jets as well, but then remembered that would still use up some of the jet power from behind, and still wouldn't slow down the ship as much as two air brakes working one in one with each other, so the sideshift does make sense now that I think of it... ok, my bad... ;)
thought I move this into the right thread:
In wipEout HD Speed Lap and TT, the energy used by BRs is instantly replenished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances_Penfold
I voted no and i tend to agree. For me too wipeout was much more racing than shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by infoxicated
I've always seen Wipeout as a "simulation" of the future. And while track and ship design and handling in the first games are for me a believable rapresentation of this future, barrell rolls and pilots killed many times on the track by weapons are not. Speaking of weapons i would prefer something that permits me to slow down the competition, and something that permits me to avoid other racers doing this to me.
It's not a matter of "digital violence" it's a matter of logic for me.
But we can always choose to race without barrell rolls and weapons if we want.
This leaves us only with time attack, online an zone modes.. but it's better than nothing.
My initial reaction: Well, that sucks. [which is nOt a compliment ;) ]Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
That would turn TT into a barrel-roll fest, and I just can't imagine myself wanting to spend that much time on such an artificial technique; it would take away the feeling of immersion in reality that I want. It's a trick that would be entertaining a few times, but after that becomes increasingly irritating. Considering that TT and hot lap require hours of play to achieve the best possible record, I just wouldn't want to do it, even though TT records have been my chief pleasure in WipEout.
You're right Lance.
After people started to analyse the tracks for potential BR-sections, Time Trial became uninteresting for me. I want to race.
Okay, if there are BRs in the game and I have to do 1-2 per lap, that's okay maybe. But if I only have to think about where to execute BRs and I'm more focussed on that than on the racing, then I think something's wrong with the game.
Really? :|Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
While it doesn't entirely shock me to see my once favourite gaming series hit a new low, it still sucks.
When i first played wipeout (the original), years ago, i loved the fact i drove a ship flying on tracks. I loved too the use of weapons, huge fun in double split screens with two psx, two tv's, a link cable and talented pilots to fight (my cousins). I loved all this stuff because it was science-fiction, even if the ship's behavior seemed logical. Now, i think that barrel-rolls are very well integrated in this universe, they are a part of the wipeout racing now ! wipeout games are made for fun, that's all !! There's a huge park of car simulation games on every consol with very realistic features. I think too that developpers in SL are trying to give us new features destined to enhance the fun on their games, trying to both, satisfy the hardcore fans and to attract new players, also in the disliked fusion (not by me). As a creator myself (i'm a professional penciler),i respect their décisions in the game's creation. Their choices (good or bad to us) are law !!
As long as we are willing to buy the product, yes.
Thanks for getting this to the right place :)Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
So basically, this will be exactly like Pulse, yes? Hmmm.
I am a minority voice at WOZ in that I like barrel rolls, because they add an extra layer of strategy to time trials. Still, barrel rolls could have been allowed in WOHD with the 15% energy reduction and that would have arguably made time trials even MORE strategic.
Still, I would probably rather have the WOHD system than the Pure system, where there was a set amount of energy per barrel roll, because that essentially forced competitive players to use a ship with high shields to play whole race time trials, so that they can repeatedly barrel roll.
It is just too bad that BR's are in HD but it is even worse that they work like Pulse in TT, immediate replenishment! Even in Pure we had to think about where to BR or not to get the fastest time and it was really exciting to do that last BR with your last energy trying to get to the end of your fastest TT without exploding in the last corner.:cold
The really bad thing about BRs is that they give the leading players in a race even more chances to win, and the bad even less.
Who's once in front of the battlefield can restore his energy without big problem,s thus make a lot of BRs.
And those who are already fired from all sides try to keep that bit of enery that's left, have no real chance to execute BRs at all, making the distance between the leading player and the last even bigger.
Hence the interest to be part of the first;)