Downloadable content

that`s a fair point extensively made, but to me the Medievil ship is an olive in my pasta. You will never get me to like olives. Especially sponsored ones ;) I will always pick out my olives and if I can`t I get very narky about it. Nothing is more pleasurable than firing 10 squillion megavolts of plasma up that thing at the end of a race.



The appearance of the tigron reminds me of one of these:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...ng&btnG=Search

If you`ve ever seen one of these in action you`ll know its an obsolete old hulk of raw power - so to me it seems to mesh with the Tigron story in other ways than its appearance. Its only my own associations that make it work in that way, but I don`t have a problem with that ship.

I think Feiyen has a fair point when he says that judgements of whether designs conform to a design standard can be objective. Something can be objectively judged as Art-Deco, Gothic or whatever. A design can be judged, fairly objectively, in how well it adheres to the standard. Whether these things are ultimately "good" or not is subjective, however, and the core of the argument seems to be whether wipeout does have a central design style to be adhered to in the first place, and if it does exist, how far from it the designers should go. Surely they shouldn`t stick to the same strict rules forever, or things could just be dull. By this point, however, we`re into subjective territory, and I`m quite happy to leave it to them. I think they`ve done a terrific job in Pure. Many of the ships are a delight to look at, and their appearances complement the roles the teams play in the 2197 wipeout world, and the performance strengths and weaknesses they have. IRL there would be one generally favourable ship design, performance wise, which all the teams would stick to quite closely, as in F1. But honestly this would be boring, and so would a constant homage to the past. There are frequent references to old designs in Pure, and there is plenty or respect for the design traditions of wipeout. So long as the teams look like they could exist in the imaginary wipeout world, I`m happy, which brings me back to the start of the post.

The discussion is much more easier of what you said, Lance and Chill :)

I have my own personal taste [a good one ;)].
For my taste, those toy-crafts are ugly, and the craft of w'o'' and w'o''2097 are stylish, for some reasons i explained before.
For that, i hope craft design will change in the future.


Just that, simple and clean :)

Byeee!

i agree completely with lunar. *high five* and as far as the tigron design i think its fine. but it reminds me more of the MiG-21 than the lightning. whoever does the designs and no matter how they are done not everyone will like them.

What about this one for Auricom ? Try to imagine the nose and cockpit alone :
http://www.worldaircorps.com/sigmodel/b10332x3cy.html
…And sorry to Feiyen if it looks like a toy :wink:

Those pics look like they'd go well in the 'Images closely related to Wipeout' topic hint hint. :wink: But they're fine where they are. :)

Damn Lance, proved me wrong again!! :? Mabye I should just curl up in a hole and die. :P :wink: Very good point, Lance.

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i have the advantage of having had a lot more years to see consequences of action and thought, and to ponder these things in an attempt to arrive at some sort of integrated system of opinion
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P.S.- given my advantages, it seems a pity that i've not progressed farther than i have in my understanding of the mysteries of the Cosmos.

P.P.S.- Lunar, i see it more as a question of to what degree game designers should be shackled by the legacy of an older and weaker technology that they are now free of in any way except psychological conservatism of a fan base, to which conservatism they may or may not feel obligated. if there is an obligation, it should perhaps be to realism within the game's universe, which is seen as an extension of the real and current one that we live in. realistic physics demands design of maximum racing efficiency, which would be a design in which there are nearly no straight lines or edges at all. look at contemporary vehicles in our real world that travel in the atmosphere at the speeds supposedly attained by the anti-grav racers of Wipeout. even the clunky, weapons-laden A-10 ground-attack aircraft has hardly a straight line anywhere. it is designed by necessity to perform to the best possible level within the physical behaviour of the world it is a part of. why should a weapons-laden anti-grav racer disregard the physics of its own 'world'? to do so would be to produce such completely illogical designs as the Fusion Auricom.

there is another point to be considered. Wipeout anti-grav racing has supposedly been taking place for many many decades. radical changes in design are pretty much a certainty. to adhere to early designs would be unrealistic in the logic and history of the Wipeout world, wouldn't it?

You make very good points, Lance. In terms of the shackles to old technology and our conservatism *raises hand* - I think that the freedom from those shackles is exactly what led us to the Fusion Auricom among other things. As Fusion showed to many people (though admittedly not everyone agrees) is that those shackles actually made WO what it is.

To remove those shackles would be like saying 'wouldn't football be more cool if the players could use shotguns and wear jetpacks and use a whole town instead of a pitch?'. Yeah, maybe that would be fun - but it's not football.

Now Pure is definitely Wipeout in my opinion, but the name alone suggests a return to those 'shackles' that made it so good in the first place. In most ways, it has delivered that. In others, it hasn't.

As for technology moving on - yep another very good point. Designs advancing makes a lot of sense. We can see this really well with the Icaras, which seems like a great progression from the original craft. However, if this was all a case of advancements in technology then we should still see more consistency in the craft. If Van-Uber dropped the Feisar-like shape of the original craft because it was technologically much more advanced, then putting the two side by side on a track would be like racing a WW1 bi-plance against a modern fighter jet. If the twin-prong thing becomes the norm with advancing technology, then they should all be moving in that direction. Now personally, as I've said, I prefer the classic designs but (my preference aside) if things move on and designs change there should still be a consistency in the look in my opinion.

Back on the subject of downloadable content - has anyone found any images of Sebenco Peak yet? I can't seem to find any but then my capabilities for browsing or find japanese sites aren't exactly fantastic.

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i can hardly believe that, since i was yakking so very much yesterday, i failed to comment on lunar's remarks about the 'Medievil' ship. it is an example of an extraneous element forced into another world. the marketing department essentially forced the designers to include this thing, this foreign design element that is not part of the designers' vision of Wipeout Pure. it doesn't fit; it shouldn't be there, it is crap within the context of the game because the designers are being made to make something that is not integral to their own tastes. a nice illustration of the point i was trying to exposit earlier
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Personally, I think the new Van-Uber looks wicked. And the beefed up stats of the download ships make the game harder and more challenging, which is never a bad thing for vets like us.

As for anything wrecking the syle, I don't think it really makes a difference, because how much do you really see the other ships while you're racing. Sure you can identify them, but you don't pay that much attention to their design while you're blazing down the track; not enough to care about the design wrecking the style, anyway. Or maybe you do, but I don't.

I could go on more, but I don't really want to right now.

P.S. I don't suppose the download ships have alternate liveries do they?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sven

Personally, I think the new Van-Uber looks wicked. And the beefed up stats of the download ships make the game harder and more challenging, which is never a bad thing

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I agree...

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good point, Sven. i think it is more the idea of an 'impure' or 'corrupted' game that bothers us when it comes to style. on the other hand, the performance of extrinsic ships like 'Medievil' is an unignorable concern during the racing itself, since it affects your results
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Well, if people dislike elements of a game like the Medieval Ship of Wipeout Pure, mabye they should come up with the ability to delete some elements of it that you dislike. Mabye in the future, their could be more elements, perhaps to many to fit onto the game, thus forcing you to delete some content to get others, but I'm not going to go to far off topic (sorry). Or if you can handle seeing it on your list, you could always just ignore it. :wink:

Wow, I guess I'm a little slow on that reality on the production of the medieval ship (commenting on Lance's info the second post before), I thought it was just an add-on by the creators. However, sorry to differ, but I still like it. :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lance

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i can hardly believe that, since i was yakking so very much yesterday, i failed to comment on lunar's remarks about the 'Medievil' ship. it is an example of an extraneous element forced into another world. the marketing department essentially forced the designers to include this thing, this foreign design element that is not part of the designers' vision of Wipeout Pure. it doesn't fit; it shouldn't be there, it is crap within the context of the game because the designers are being made to make something that is not integral to their own tastes. a nice illustration of the point i was trying to exposit earlier
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Erm
thats not strictly true, or indeed true at all.

The existence of the Medievil ship (which I like, because its different) came about for a variety of reasons. With time ticking down we did not have any bonus ships in the game (even the zone ship was not initially planned to be opened for use outside of zone) through a few conversations internally we discovered that their were Wipeout fans in the cambridge studio, they kindly offered to build us a ship if we gave them the specs, we did, and they gave us the ship.
I personally wanted it there because I wanted as much content as we could get in the time and this was a way of getting more content. Whilst we recogniosed it didnt necessarily fit within the whole style, we thought that as it was a bonus ship, it didnt matter too much, after all the bi-planes and animal ships of earlier versions didnt fit the whole wipeout style.

We nearly had others from elsewhere, but time beat us and other people in the end.

In a nutshell the ship was not forced upon us by marketing at all and it is wrong and unfair on certain people to assume it was - it came about though the desire to have more content and wasnt forced upon us by anyone, and, I like it :P

the difference is that the animal ships in previous versions were not "compulsory" and were not part of the main game. Medievil just doesn`t fit as an AI ship in the tournaments and single races. Its not part of the same world as Feisar, Qirex etc. Its not a team in 2197. IMO its a mistake to let it be an AI ship, but its presence is not a game-killer, and I for one one am sorry if I accused you, elsewhere, of using it as an advert when this was not the intention.

The new content btw is fantastic - its like getting the game refreshed, not that I was bored of it at all anyway. Its just getting that lovely new and exciting wipeout feeling all over again.

All I seem to use nowadays is the Medievil craft... I for one lurrrrv it!

boo

:wink:

The Medieval is good plasmabait :wink:

But seriously, I don't mind it so much. It looks awkward while barrel-rolling, but it's generally all right.

P.S. Could you add alternate livery skins to future download ships? That would be great!

P.P.S. Is there any way to fix the ship selection menu so it doesn't take so long to select the later ships? I'm going to hate it when I get the last download pack, and have to spend a minute scrolling down to select that last ship every time I want to race it....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sven

...Is there any way to fix the ship selection menu so it doesn't take so long to select the later ships? I'm going to hate it when I get the last download pack, and have to spend a minute scrolling down to select that last ship every time I want to race it....

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I thought this too!

The more I play Staten Park, the more I love it. It's an absolutely amazing race on Phantom class. Really fast, not too technical, excellent. It reminds me of Talon's Reach a bit as well...

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Colin, my apologies for the assumption. [puts soapbox away, looking at it wistfully. ;) ]
however, the ship still doesn't fit, aesthetically. it wasn't designed by the Wipeout group, if i read your post correctly. would it be possible in the next version of Wipeout for the player to have the option to restrict AI to original ships rather than be required to have all downloadable extras in AI?
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