ah ok, thanks letting me know :) are the leaderboards been refreshed\deleted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatar
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ah ok, thanks letting me know :) are the leaderboards been refreshed\deleted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatar
The leaderboard are going to be refreshed towards the final release, if i'm not mistaken.
Love shortcuts, but to a limit. That is more of an f-zero cut than wipeout. Maybe a few checkpoints so that large a cut cannot be done
this is very cool xD 3 shortcuts in a single lap, and nothing too fancy either. now add BRs back into the game (as an unlockable feature for completing the game) and the let the fun begin ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nu9get
@jabberjaw: it's like a typical X-Cup shortcut, when most if not all AI ships fail ...
You are welcomeQuote:
Originally Posted by slowriderxcorps
I'm back.
Physics got gud. Nothing much to say. I played the campaign with g-tek and I've got a smile on my face. "It's Wip3out all over again." Back in the day it felt furutistic. and it still feels futuristic. Ishitar Citadel could be a track set in the sky. The background is really good so does the track texture. Luna felt lacking something after I've saw that renewed track.
Bugs(Steam Unstable Branch)
_If you press look back while in photo mode(thirdperson mode) the ship will disappear. if you press and hold it the ship re-appears. Same happens in first person. but if you do that, the cockpit and ship will be there at the same time(really stupid.)
Other than that...I dont think so.
You should reconsider that cockpit model(and the others that you're planing) in WO3 They didn't obstruct your view. the "cage" on the cockpit makes it hard to see, and the panel could be less centered. Take the F-16 for example or even the WO3 cockpits.
Hoping for the next release. THE HYPE IS ALL OVER ME.
EDIT: For the steam devbranch I think you wanna keep in mind to NOT replace the UserData Folder. I've played the game for several minutes, closed, and it update, and my files were gone. good thing I had the backup
Wasn't there a guide knocking about somewhere for importing the ships from WO/WO2097 into this game? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I have the community ships imported already I just don't know what files I need to get from the old games and what to do with them. Can anyone point me in the right direction if so?
On a related note, does anyone remember the name of that software you use to extract files from playstation games? I think I found it through a post on this forum somewhere, possibly one of the reverse engineering threads. I'm sure it's sitting on one of my hard drives but I can't remember for the life of me what it was called lol.
The guide is located in the BallisticNG folder, I believe it is called _Wipeout Ships.txt (but I don't remember).
To extract files from PlayStation games, you can just put the CD into your disc tray and browse it, I believe. I've had them in .iso format for a while though, so don't quote me on that.
Also most of the obscene shortcuts that I did (I'm Matt) have been patched, though with that being said, there are still quite a lot of them in tracks like 0x002, 0x003, Maceno Bay (still, if you turn left after the checkpoint you go straight to the end), etc. Furthermore, the option of disabling shortcuts in Multiplayer lobbies has been discussed if people feel they would ruin the experience. Personally I'm all for it, shortcuts are fun, interesting and iconic but I don't think they're necessarily more fun or skillful.
Truth is, I suck at these type of games. I am pretty sure without shortcuts I wouldn't be where I am.
Just found out I was thinking of jPSXdec, I used it once to convert the bgm in parappa the rapper from .xa1 to .wav. Luckily the wavs all still had .xa1 in the filename as a quick google search for that came up with a page on another forum where people were discussing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zynetic
I'd spent a while lurking in the reverse engineering threads in the past so I incorrectly assumed that I had discovered it in there. My apologies.
In regards to the current Unstable build, there's major issues with the custom control binding on controllers. Whenever I tried to bind the Thrust to the A button on my 360 pad (just to make sure), it would automatically reselect the option for that keybind and seek a new input. Similarly, binding something to the B or Start button would cause the game to back out of the Controls menu once pressed.
Just dl'd the new update and accessed the unstable branch, and can gladly say my controller can be detected now. I also can confirm the issues in the above post.
In addition, for some reason my DS4 is being treated as Joy2 even though it's the first controller as seen in monitoring software, so I had to reassign all the buttons. (In the previous version I tried, nothing worked when trying to reassign buttons.)
Also, pitch up/down are reversed in your menus.
Lastly, away from control issues, the framerate cap @ 60 by default may not be the greatest idea. Unless you have FreeSync or something, you lose frames. It's much smoother for most people on standard 60hz monitors (probably most people still) to either increase the cap or enable VSync somehow e.g. in radeon settings.
Recently learned about this game Went trough 3 seasons and getting ballistic champion and I have to say music and physics are pretty awesome, especially physics, smooth like butter, and got wipeout written all over it.
In latest unstable my PS2 pad with adapter is being recognised as well which is nice since I was postponing playing till it worked with my pad.
Here is a couple of bugs I caught.
When I tried to assign "thrust" button, it would blink for a moment and went back to "..." like its not binded but, binding "drop pickup" button would exit settings menu and at the same time previously seemingly unbinded button to "thrust" would now appear binded.
Nose pitch up/down being reversed.
There is achievement "Purity of the Race - Complete 50 races with weapons turned off." in my case it stands on 38/50 but seeing how I only did couple time attack races and 3 seasons without turning off weapons (and in fact blasting everyone on the track) I am not sure how I got 38/50 might be bug or I dont understand how it works.
Tremble doesnt work on PS2 pad I use.
I know the aim is to follow psx limitation and Wp3 style but, will you leave modders some freedom to put more complex assets in game, with animated objects on courses and ships with no strict limitations on size, texture resolution or number of polygons?
At least allow animated airbrakes since wip3out has them?
In overall I have to say, its pretty cool game from what I've seen, great job guys.
Seeing how AGR2280 evolve into BnG just brings a tear into my eye. It's been a year and here we are. How far have we got.
And it also reminded me that I suck at classic WipEout :P
Guys, how about analog input for all controls, I tried to bind thrust to analog but it was still acting like digital.
Even though original wipeout 1-3 had analog thrust (with negcon) it wasnt used very often on consoles even on PS3, on PC tho its a bit of a different story simply because there are many different controllers you can use with it.
I tried to use my flight stick, rudder and throttle quadrant with BNG but throttle quadrant still acting like digital switch, just feels unnatural and limits possible ways of controlling your ship.
Is it possible to make it work like in original Wp? Where if push switch 75% throttle would raise to 75% and would stop there, now thrust climbs steadily to the 100% regardless of how far I push the switch.
Also, is it me or cockpit camera changed to better somewhere between 4.00 and 4.06?
I think previously cockpit camera was tilting with the ship when now horizon stays levelled.
I'd imagine you guys are probably already aware of this but there's a nasty little gap in the level geometry on Maceno Bay at the start of the tunnel that you go into just after the track goes back on itself.
Attachment 10301
I did also have an issue earlier where restarting the race from the post race menu caused the thrust sounds for the player's ship to go silent (I could still hear nearby AI ships) but I haven't been able to replicate it yet unfortunately.
Still haven't managed to replicate the above but I've just stumbled across something else:
If you press change view whilst the game is paused the view will change once the game is unpaused, kind of annoying if you happen to press it by accident. Similarly, pressing the rear view button whilst the game is paused causes some odd glitches.
Also on Aciknovae if you drive backwards into the wall (See attached screenshot) at full speed with the nose up the wuss wagon will drop you off in front of the last checkpoint and the lap will still count. It is even possible to clear the gap and reach said checkpoint without being picked up. Again, like the last one I found, it's difficult to use as a proper shortcut but there may be something in it if you develop a technique.
Attachment 10302
Jumping to the right on the final jumps of both 0x002 and 0x003 results in a bit of a shortcut too.
This is all in steam 0.4.6 by the way.
- - - Updated - - -
Just noticed that weapons can still be activated after having been eliminated. Amusingly the autopilot functions as normal allowing you to still finish the race lol, you'll have to pick retry or quit before briefly seeing the results screen though so it probably can't be used as a cheat in the campaign.
Been playing for a little bit. Some observations, other than the obviously very common wall glitches and whatnot where it's easy to fall out of the map:
* The lights in the first tunnel on Aciknovae are too bright. Very hard to see where you're going for people who haven't memorised the track.
* Aciknovae's track separations and the automatic adjustment of your craft's handling - without some deus ex machina excuse like mag strips for one track only - it's just patently an atrocious gameplay decision. Player control NEEDS TO BE 100% a player's own control. There is no other way of looking at this as far as I'm concerned. If the tracks can't be handled without an invisible hand guiding them, redesign them.
* Ishtar: having such a long track have such a difficult and unforgiving corner is the icing on the cake for making it a chore to play on higher speeds. If the corner was at least on a short track, you could rack up attempts quickly.
* Mines are far too common, often littering the entire track at points.
* The AI? It seems overpowered in the opening laps and then goes easymode in the last. Makes weapons entirely useless to use against them, as if they're just a ploy to make life miserable for the player. The only useful pickup is incredibly rare (the e-tank or whatever).
* The AI will often adjust their racing line to knock you about. The constant bumping is unpleasant, especially given 99% of the time they're all in a big clump, the only exception being sometimes a leader or two pull away. You just get screwed over while they, seemingly, are unimpeded.
* There are times where you don't hear one or more of the beeps at the start. Totally upsets my rhythm. I've disabled voice countdown, and depending on your position on the grid e.g. in time trial, on some tracks at least, you can't see the digital timer.
* The game seems to freeze every now and then for a few frames. It can, and has, messed up my race. Playing on 144 fps cap.
Opinions:
* I was playing season 3 and ran into a bit of annoyance on Ishtar. Restarting the track, and being subjected to an unskippable track intro was annoying af. Track intros need to be skippable or outright disable-able in the settings.
* I feel it's very difficult to stabilise the craft. The airbrakes create too much drag and take away too much forward momentum? Also have a lot of difficulty adjusting to survival; the craft for it feels completely different to the rest of the game's (that I've used so far).
* Mainly on Ishtar but some other tracks, I feel like I would be scraping along a wall and then bounce off it despite not making full contact. Also, walls in general are ridiculously bouncy. In conjunction with limited ability to stabilise your craft, one mistake becomes many because you can't easily return to a workable racing line, even at low speeds. Sure, you could correct at low-low speeds, but by then the race is already over.
* It might be an idea to not have the track width the same at every point of it. I.e., have some run-off areas. They exist in the original WO's, and HD.
* Personal opinion... but I think both the vacuum cleaner sound and the engine rev sorta noises the craft makes are no good.
Haven't exactly nailed the game down yet obv., but those are some issues I see with it. There's also plenty of potential in there though! The sensation of going fast is really good, it's a shame for one reason or another I just can't sustain it on anything but the slowest speed tiers :P
There's no automatic adjustment in Aciknovae or any other track for that matter. I think it's just the camera aligning itself with the track section that makes it look like the ship is turning on its own, or maybe the fact that ships tend to jump off ledges due to the physics engine.
EDIT: Checked it in the game itself, it's just the camera readjusting that gives the impression that the ship is moving on its own. It happens in Wipeout3 too, in Manor Top.
A few things I've noticed, possibly already documented:
In the input manager, pitch up and pitch down need to be reversed. I had to bind my d-pad down to pitch down to pull the nose up.
I had the button binding for pause on my controller stop working in the middle of a season, too. But it worked again when I went back into the menu and re-bound it. (The menu still showed the correct binding the whole time.)
Wall bounce is still not good. But the pit lanes in several tracks have gotten a LOT better since I last played.
@ Xpand
Yeah, booted up WO3 and had a crack at Manor Top and you're right. It's there as well; although to a lesser extent as far as I could tell.
Still, just because WO did it doesn't mean it's perfect. The effect is so jarring, I'd really encourage looking to eradicate it completely.
The camera system is identical, that's why I referred Wipeout 3. It's a quirk of the way the camera uses track points to place itself.
Beautiful, thanks for the update!
skipping track intros :+
Would it be possible for you to explain how does BnG camera actually works ? I've been trying to understand its logic (for WXX) but well ... it's kinda hard to figure it out !Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpand
Thank you :P
Here's the code for it http://pastebin.com/0XgBkbxL. And the configuration - https://i.gyazo.com/a8749bd3a859ee13...7cd9f67745.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by aybe
The concept is that you need to figure out the ships position relative to the center of the track and use that to offset it. The way I approached this at the time is by creating a gameobject that I can use as a transform to use transform.TransformPoint(shipPosition), though you can also achieve this with a bit of maths: Vector3.Scale(Vector3.One, (Quaternion.Inverse(sectionForward) * (shipPosition - sectionPosition))).
Thanks !
I think I will just copy/paste and get it to work then I'll try to understand the mechanics, if somehow I can't get it to work I'll try to model one out of the literal definition you gave,
I made a few ones but well, it's not as convincing as I expected:
- a cheap one with Vector3.SmoothDamp, simple and effective but damping is global
- a cheaper one, Mathf.Damp for each axis but orientation gets wrong
- a much better but tricky, ConfigurableJoint, lots of control and really convincing but then I concluded there is one external variable that must affect camera in the original game
- first one I did was to use incoming angle, sounded good but it is goes out of control
By the way, have you tried to project the ship transform with world's up like this:
Though it needs further tweaking to not lose sight of ship at times, it gives a very interesting speed effect and ones feels much more the Z axis of a track section.Code:Quaternion rotation;
switch (CamRotationMode)
{
case CameraRotationMode.Ship:
rotation = transform.rotation;
break;
case CameraRotationMode.World:
rotation =
Quaternion.LookRotation(Vector3.ProjectOnPlane(transform.forward, Vector3.up), Vector3.up);
break;
default:
throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException();
}
_shipCamera.transform.rotation
= Quaternion.Slerp(_shipCamera.transform.rotation, rotation, CamRotationRate);
Okay, I'm back to work ... thank you :P
I joined this forum solely to say: although I really like the idea and the graphics and the music, I find this game completely uncontrollable regardless of what options I use, and whether I use keyboard or game pad (with analogue sticks).
The root problem is that whether you use kb or pad, if you press Left or Right for more than about a quarter of a second, it makes the ship turn ridiculously HARD in that direction, as if you'd press one of the shoulder brakes in one of the original Wipeout games (ie. it'll do pretty much a 90 degree turn at lower speeds, way more than usually needed).
I've tried every which way I can come up with, but got no joy. Is there something I can do to manually fiddle with how the steering model works? I'd dearly love to play the game, but it's just WAY too frustrating. I was able to play WO, WO2097 and W3O at the very hard levels but find myself wanting to throw the kb or pad out the window every time I think "just one more try".
The other aspect (and this would be less annoying if not for the first) is that this BNG seems to have the original WO collision model, where it would STOP you nearly completely on impact, vs the slightly more forgiving (and infinitely more fun) WO2097 version, where you could throw sparks on nearly every corner without coming to an abrupt HALT by mistake at the slightest bump or graze with the track wall.
I completely understand this game is FREE. It's just saddening that the control system would mar what is otherwise a fantastic looking/sounding game. The control model was what made WO so fun.
Is there anything I can do to enjoy playing this game? Thanks for any advice in advance!
If the turning speed is way too fast, have you tried ships with lower handling, or have you tried faster difficulties? I agree that in Toxic, the turning rate is very dramatic, but in faster modes like Spectre, the difference is noticable.
I can play the game at the first two speed levels without too many difficulties, but other than that - no way. Given I had to get a top 6 time just to barely beat the AI on one track on the second lowest speed tier, with the crazy overpowered Barracuda, I get the feeling I'm not alone in this.
I agree - the handling is a little weird, and you get punished too hard for mistakes. I think, but I'm not entirely sure, it's in large part because it takes too long for your craft to change directions before it reaches maximum turn speed. Also, I'm convinced there are multiple corners on some tracks that are literally impossible to execute without taking your thumb off the accelerator, and that, to me, isn't really WipEout... and even though this isn't WipEout, it's a habit, and one that I liked. Might be just me not being good enough/not knowing the gameplay well enough; dunno. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the airbrake takes away too much forward momentum, but to expand on that: while I wouldn't mind the idea of using the hyperthrust to counter the effect as a gameplay element, there's a problem - the game is so punishing, you need that energy to live! =P - Even after the damage reduction from unavoidable mass ship collisions.
Re: ship turning acceleration & speed: it might be an idea to work on figuring out what you need. I doubt there's a corner in the game which requires the maximum turn speed, for example, so it's kind of a superfluous gameplay element. Likewise, as I've just mentioned, I think it would be beneficial to make those impossible corners possible by allowing your craft to turn as rapidly as necessary.
Since I tried out the Barracuda, I find it strange that you'd make a ship one that's clearly the best by so much. But it's not just that it's the best ship by far, it also handles so differently to e.g. the Tenrai, it's almost a different game.
Also, what's the deal with the handling rating? The Protonic, with a handling of 1, has much more in common with the handling of the Barracuda (10) than the Tenrai ( 8 ) - which in turn has more in common with the Mtech (10). Absolutely NFI what's going on here.
Regarding steering and acceleration, everything is already in place. Steering in lower speed classes will feel more sensitive because you don't have to steer for that long, you're going pretty slowly. For the most part you just have to tap the steering, especially on high handling ships. Also remember that a lot of the ships have a slow steering falloff, so you will continue rotating for a bit once you stop providing input, which can take some time to get used to. In terms of steering speed though, in lower speed classes you will never need to utilize the full speed that you can rotate but when you reach Spectre, even Halberd sometimes, there are a lot of corners that you can fly through utilizing the full rotation of your ship. Harpstone for example, you don't even need to use the airbrakes in Halberd and Spectre, you just need to keep turning into the corner.
The reason you're loosing so speed with the airbrakes is likely because you're relying on them too much. They do slow your ship down pretty quickly but if you're using a higher handling ship then you shouldn't really be getting to the point that you are really starting to come to a hault. For stats, they still need to be worked on and in the next update I've made some tweaks and also included a grip stat to help make smaller differences in handling easier, some ships including Protonic AG4 have been adjusted. Barracuda is also designed as a time-trial ship, hence the massive difference in stats. As of a recent update they also can't pickup weapons. There will be separate leaderboards for Barracuda in the future and it's also planned to have it blacklisted from multiplayer lobbies by default.
AI and wall collisions obviously still need work too as the AI can be a bit unforgiving on some tracks and their use of mines can be a bit unwieldy and sometimes you don't scrape the wall when it looks like you should be able to.
Would also like to mention multiplayer. I am currently waiting on Valve to enable lobbies for the game as for whatever reason free games have lobbies disabled and the only way to enable them is to ask Valve. Once that is done, getting multiplayer implemented through Steamworks will be a focal point for a while, will keep everyone updated with progress on that as it happens.
I currently have the #2 time on Zephyr Ridge on Toxic, less than a second off the top spot. The last corner is AFAIK impossible to get through without hitting a wall if you keep holding the accelerator when using the Barracuda.
My complaint isn't that the steering feels sensitive, but in fact the opposite - it takes too long for your craft to shift its weight or however, not sure how to put it.
The airbrakes seem like they give you sideways momentum in the opposite direction of the side you're braking on in addition to slowing you down generally, which seems the opposite of intuition. Have a go of lining yourself up on Ishtar's jump, go straight, hold the right airbrake and you will end up left of the landing, falling off the track. Oh and yeah, that corner leading up to that jump is another of those impossible ones.
Actually, Newton's first law would disagree with you. The airbrakes only add a torque to the ship. Torque itself doesn't affect the ship's linear momentum, what makes the ship move in the same direction is the engine, but since your initial velocity to that new direction is zero, the ship has to accelerate to effectively move in that new direction. This happens a lot in planes, that's why maneuvers like this and this work.Quote:
Originally Posted by amplificated
In any case, the reason the airbrakes do that is due to the game being based on the early wipeout games.
Other than the claim about Newton disagreeing with me, I generally agree with you... but you didn't explain why the ship moves in the opposite direction the brakes are being applied to when the initial vector is straight, and I can't see it happening in those videos. In fact, the manoeuvres in both videos appear to have nothing to do with lateral movements of any kind...
For the record, the 1st law IIRC is that an object in motion will tend to stay in motion. So if I'm going straight, why do I go left when I turn right? I'm not following you here.
I haven't played the originals extensively, but I've played them a bit, and I feel a lot more comfortable after a few minutes in them than I do in BNG... and I haven't noticed this phenomenon there. I feel I can swing my craft around in WO3, but in BNG, I just don't have that amount of control in corners.
Oh you mean when going straight, I thought you were talking about the drifting when turning.
I think that's just a programming quirk, but in fact it can also be physically explained by Newton's third law, but this will require some drawings to understand better, since it depends on the geometry of the airbrakes.
Attachment 10330
Attachment 10331
So, Newton's third law says that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. In this case the force the airbrake exerts on the air particles creates an opposite reaction force on the airbrake, and since that's connected to the ship, the ship feels the deceleration+a sideways push to the side opposite to the airbrake used.
The difference is that in the original Wipeouts using only the airbrakes made the ship turn to the desired direction albeit very slowly, but there was no sideways drift.
You're reaching :P
Even if what you're showing in that diagram were the case, the direction the nose is pointing is not straight, the airbrake turns you right (if you're holding right ab) - so that momentum would shift rapidly in the direction you were originally heading, if it even existed at all. I'm not going to claim I'm an aerodynamics expert, and from my understanding it's a ****ing complex field, so I'm assuming none of us are.
I just feel the current setup is unintuitive. Check it out. Ramp on Ishtar.
Before the rotation speed starts being noticeable, that's what will happen. How fast the ship starts turning while drifting depends a lot on its mass. So in heavier ships this is what you'll see happenning, pretty obviously. I'm certainly not reaching, I have at least a year's worth of fluid dynamics in my physics engineering degree ;)
In any case, as the ship turns it will still drift sideways to the direction opposite to the airbrake being used. The aerodynamic drag force is very high at very high speeds (increases with the speed squared), so this effect will have the biggest impact just before the ship starts turning. It doesn't mean the force is constant during the use of the airbrake, but the first impulse is enough to send the ship drifting sideways a bit.
Of course, this is just an explanation to what would actually happen IRL. What happens in BNG is just a programming quirk on the physics engine.
I forgot to add (tired), but I think you're forgetting that the accelerator is still being held all this time... so the ship is facing e.g. perpendicular to the track, and it's still going the opposite direction.
Well yes, we're talking about a jet (thrust) engine, it doesn't have an immediate response to a change in direction, like a car. If you have an object moving, say, left, at a constant speed, and you add a thrust perpendicular to that direction, the object will start accelerating in that perpendicular direction BUT it maintains its momentum to the left regardless, Newton's first law.
But we weren't heading left ;)
I don't understand what you mean. Plus I already said the ship behaviour in BNG is a programming quirk.
Forgive me, it's 4am. Finally lost it I think. GG
And yeah, I always assumed it was a programming quirk. It's just one I don't have a particular fondness for! -_-