yeah, those two ships will hopefully make the smooth-curve-design-dislikers happy again. I don't expect them to have any curves at all! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
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yeah, those two ships will hopefully make the smooth-curve-design-dislikers happy again. I don't expect them to have any curves at all! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
Oh, i want to say a good word about ships in pure [it may seems i'm here only to critic... it's not like that ;)].
A few crafts take a lot of style with the 2nd skin.
AG sys, Qirex and Assegai for example.
A clean, bright, straight skin make the model look muuch more good.
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it makes it look more good TO YOU.
nothing is objective. when you have more experience of life, this 'truth' may quite possibly become part of your own 'truth'.
what is ''Wipeout style'' and what is not ''Wipeout style'' is defined by each generation of designers of Wipeout, not by us. we are not the designers of Wipeout, nor do we define what it is.
things change, the straight-edged visual and construction styles of automobiles of the 1920's gave way to concerns about aerodynamic efficiency and new modeling and construction methods and materials. there is no reason to suppose that the same kind of thing should not happen in the universe of the Wipeout game series. the fact is that the original designs were linear and simple because the game machine wasn't powerful enough to animate a more complex shape. or at least enough complex shapes/ships in a sufficiently interesting environment at high speeds. it wasn't a Wipeout style, but a Sony PlayStation constraint. that physical constraint no longer exists, so the designers are free to make shapes more in accord with what they would need to be in real life if they so choose, and there is no reason that they should not so choose.
our own personal views of what is ''ugly'' or ''beautiful'' are purely subjective. if we were designing our own game, we would produce ship designs according to our own aesthetic preferences, make what is ''beautiful'' or ''cool'' or ''wicked'' to our own sense of design. that is exactly what the designers of Wipeout have always done, within the context of what was possible with the machines they had to work with. our own preferences have not one damned thing to do with it other than what we choose to buy or not buy, to use or not use, with all the attendant consequences of those choices.
to think that our own likes and dislikes are objective and universally truthful and correct is an inaccurate view of reality. it is the arrogance of a limited viewpoint, an inability to see things from more than one angle. i was a horribly arrogant, ignorant little bastard when i was thirteen. since then i have gradually improved, and have tried many viewpoints, and can now say that i am slightly less ignorant, and am now only moderately arrogant. i am making progress, however snail-like. yay, me? :roll:
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P.S. - i like both the old sleek straight-edged style aNd swoopy curvy very streamlined style
We can say that the new design is smooth, round, toy-like. It's objective.
Then you can prefer this style, it's your "taste".
I say [in MY humble opinion] that this style is totally ugly and not wipeout-like.
Can i?
And i explained the reasons.
if you think that the ship design of wipEout was made in that way only for PS tech limits.. you don't love wipEout.
Playstation moved Tekken, or Ridge Racer, or Crash or anything else. Also more "organic" shapes [see Rollcage].
Yes, PSX has limits. But if the design of the crafts was like that, it was for design choice, that now [IMHO sadly] are totally different.
Now just for the chance to say "PSP is power and we can handle it" they put smooth surfaces, round things everywhere on the crafts, and "dirty" skins with ruined edges. Look at the Intro of WipEout. It was a FMV, so without PSX limits. The ship was wonderful, even without smooth things and so on.
well, I think the ship designs of the original w'o'' were very well suited to fit the limited performance (or at least as far as developers thought) of the Playstation. WipEout was one of the very first games, and if you think of the very first tekken, ridge racer, or games like jumping flash, they were all very sparse with polygons and textures. So wipEout's ship models weren't entirely a design choice.
The intro, like in every videogame, I guess, is made to fit the ingame graphical style, not the other way around. So, naturally, they didn't have supersmooth crafts in the intro, otherwise there wouldn't have been a connection to the actual gameplay.
and don't get me wrong, I love the original wipEout. There still is nothing that comes close atmosphere-wise. But to say that I was impressed with its ship design because it was so simple would be wrong. I was impressed with the ship design because it managed to make a great craft, even though it had so few polygons.
Sure.
But i was impressed.
Now, when I [repeat: I :D] see Pure ships or Fusion ships, i'm not impressed. Or maybe negative impressed.
I see Star Wars Pod or 80's F-Zero-like toys, not stylish wipeout crafts.
That's MY idea.
And that's why I asked to change craft designers.
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do you think that Sony will fire the ship designers and deprive them of their life-sustaining income because you do not like the style those designers create?
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[before i forget:
feiyen said:
''I say [in MY humble opinion] that this style is totally ugly and not wipeout-like.
Can i?
And i explained the reasons.''
but feiyen also said:
''But it's not like "for me it's good, for you not, so peace & love"... the reason i explained are real, objective.''
no, they are as you say in the first quote above, in your humble opinion.
if your opinion were objective, everyone would have that same opinion; the fact that they do not should be a clear and strong indicator that the opinion is subjective.
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feiyen said:
''if you think that the ship design of wipEout was made in that way only for PS tech limits.. you don't love wipEout.''
this is an illogical non sequitur. love for Wipeout has nothing to do with my opinion of the reason that the ship designs were the way they were. i still love the designs because they are brilliant creations, most especially because of the limitations of the game console.
you know nothing of my love for Wipeout; please do not claim knowledge that you do not possess.]
[i realise that your lack of command of the English language makes interpretation of sentences in that language more difficult for you, but it is also clear that your statements are not the result of that kind of misunderstanding.]
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I'm not that stupid, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I *hope* they'll change.
deprive them of their life-sustaining income
Sorry but this is demagogy and hypocritical.
They're there to work well, if a designer doesn't make the work well, it's right to fire him.
[imho]
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but it is merely your opinion that the work was not done well. it is insensitve and unsympathetic of you to desire that they be fired because you think they are poor designers.
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i tend not to be a demogogue or hypocrite, so please stop the name-calling.
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well, maybe then we should make a POLL (hooray :blarg ) wether the ship design of purE 'IS GOOD OR BAD'. Maybe the designer will be fired then?
LOL
wake up, dude.
I think the designers did a great job, and I guess most people here think so too.
ANYWHO, it's not nice to wish for someone to get fired anyway, even if his/her work does not appeal to you. Don't think you could do better.
edit: spot on lance, same thinking, you beat me to it :wink:
@ Lance:
My opinion is clear, but i repeat it anyway ;)
It's OBJECTIVE that the new designs are smooth, rounded, toy-like, pod-like, sw-like, fzero-like, whatever-like :P
It's MY opinion that this style is totally ugly for wipEout
@eLhabib
Do you think that making a poll for the best song you'll really get the best song?
Or that making a poll for the best character in VG you'll get really the best character?
In this case democracy is not the key, because the competence is not in everyone.
Even if Britney Spears sells million of records, you can't say she's the best singer in the world, right? :)
After all, I didn't mean "i want they fire him". I don't know even WHO is the crafts designer. I hope they'll make good [for me] craft design, how they can do this is not my question... they can move the craft designer to another job inside the team, or they can put someone else with him... i dunno, i care only about the craft design, the results.
:)
that was supposed to be funny, if you knew the polls on these forums you would get the joke. What I wanted to say by this is that I believe there are more people on these forums who like the new designs than those who don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by feiyen
i'm sure about that...
but the fact that most people like them doesn't mean that the pure crafts design is real good, imho :)
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if you had read the forums more thoroughly, you would know who the ship designer is; he is in fact a member of the WipeoutZone.
el habib was being sarcastic about taking a poll
''toy-like'' depends on your concept of toy characteristics. and anyway videogames are one of the many types of toys
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edit: oops. added missing ''is''
@ feiyen: I don't think that your opinion counts more than anyone else's.
i dind't say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
@ Lance: it's Colin? COOOLIIIIN! make a good job with the other shiiiips! :evil:
:D
[jokin, uh.. :P]
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you did not say that directly, but everything you say implies that you think your opinion is valid and that opinions different from yours are not valid.
no, it's not Colin. you need to read more carefully. Colin is the overall game designer, the project head, not the ship designer. the designs of different components of the game are all ''subsystems'' so to speak, and have different designers
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the downloads go live on Monday May 16th!!!! (tomorrow)
I can't wait.
I'm a lot happier with Pure than with Fusion although I'm not totally sold on the new track designs... most likely I just need more playtime there...
I'm really looking forward to the old school tracks done in the "real"
(read- not tron like) WOP form in the downloads....
(although the Tron-esque design is totally awesome too....)
I haven't been here in awhile I'm glad to see it's mostly the same around here...
Sorry to jump in against your cause, feiyen, and I know this message was directed at eLhabib, but whenever their's something created to fit a large crowd of people, you are almost always going to have someone reject something. C'mon, give the creators a break. They've already made so many people happy, and you seem to be selfish with your thoughts. It would be so much easier for yourself to learn to like it than the creators to change it and not make anyone else unhappy. They have to worry about a large population, and all you have to do is worry about yourself. One person. It just seems so much easier, right? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by feiyen
In addition with Britney Spears, she made people happy, but she doesn't bother to change here music to make everyone happy, because she would lose the state of euphoria she had already built up. The truth is that everyone is different, and you can't mixed everyone all into a blender, like you want to do with Wipeout Pure, because it doesn't mix. Try mixing oil and water together to stay together, or eating hamburger with candy, they're both two different things, and both can be enjoyed, but not all in one. Someone's going to dislike the candy, and someone the hamburger, and many will dislike the mix, but will like both seperate. Wipeout Pure is already a good mix of things, like a pasta, but just because you don't like the vegitables doesn't mean they're going to wash out the whole pan just for you. You've got to learn to like it, and that's where your selfishness comes in. Please don't make everyone have to change for you. It's in human nature to adapt, so please do it, please? :roll:
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he doesn't need to learn to like it; his personal taste is his own. one can't just say ''i'm going to change my personal tastes to be like everyone else's'' so i can enjoy the only thing available, nor should one. one has one's own set of senses and precepts; those don't change just because one decides to change them. this goes for designers, too. if they try to do something against their own tastes, it will turn out crap. there has to be a continuity, an integrity of taste and creation in the individual.
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