it's not a matter of "if you don't like a ship, don't use it".Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney
If a ship is ugly, the entire game get worst.
Every ship is a piece of the design and the game style.
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it's not a matter of "if you don't like a ship, don't use it".Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney
If a ship is ugly, the entire game get worst.
Every ship is a piece of the design and the game style.
Tmoney, I agree with you, totally.
feiyen, I don't agree with you at all. If you don't like a ship, don't use it, so it won't make your gaming experience worse at all.
I dunno about Feiyen but I was actually complementing the Van-Über's styling, all I sadi was that they've pimped-out it's stats like they did with the Tigron and that I don't think that's a good idea, I explained a couple of pages earlier that as you can't stop the game from putting those ships in a race, it unbalances the racing line-up and puts those of us who prefer to race with a different team at a disadvantage we would not be at if the d/l ships were balanced properly. Obviously there's the argument that those of us who don't like this can simply not use the d/l packs but then we also lose the skins and additional tracks that are bundled with the unbalanced ships. My qualms are with the game balance, or rather the d/l content upsetting the balance which was very good in the standard game, not with the ship styling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
a game is not just an addition of elements.
a game is also the armony, the way the elements stand each other.
if you put an ugly craft into a great game, the result it's not "great game - ugly craft".
the entire game will be a bit "ruined".
Sorry for bad english :oops:
I'm not sure I understand you there. If you decide not to use the 'bad' craft, how is it gonna affect you and make your gaming experience worse?!
For me, the only ship I don't like design-wise is the medievil ship, because it just doesn't fit in a wipEout game. So, I decided not to use it. Done. I don't consider purE to be a worse game because of it.
feiyen
If every ship had the same 'style' and only minor differences so that they all fit into your opinion of what's good looking feiyen, there would be no variety.
PLUS - someone else, namely me, may not agree with your opinion of what looks good - and now I'm stuck with hating EVERY ship while you love every one.
It makes no sense that they'd all be the same style of design in Wipeout's fictional world. They're supposed to be from competing companies. Does PS2 look like Xbox? Does my Ford Focus look like a Honda Civic? Of course they don't.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. Nobody at Liverpool should be kicked out for making a ship you think is trash ;)
Although I certainly agree with your last sentence, TMoney, I would point out that your Focus looks much more like a Civic than a Feisar looks like a Van-Uber. The structure of those cars is the same while the entire structure of these ships is different.
If every ship had the same style and only minor differences, you could argue that there would be no variety, but that would be a criticism you'd have to apply to the original WO. That game, got the balance of variety with similar structure spot-on in my opinion. The ships all looked like they were designed to race against each other in a very competitive league. Controlled, built for speed, like an F1 race.
Fusion, by comparison, looks like one of those competetions where all the novelty vehicles try to climb up a hill - know the ones that I mean? Just novelty ships. Pure isn't anywhere near as bad as Fusion but it's more in that direction.
As for not using them, that's fine, but they are still there on the starting line-up. You may not like the Medievil ship, but you'll find it beating you in tournaments or beside you in the starting line-up. That will always affect the atmosphere and appearance of the game whether you use the ship or not.
true, there should have been an option to turn the medievil ship off. But with all the other ships (even including the zone ship) I am perfectly fine. They certainly fit into the w'o'' world design-wise, and if the downloadable ships have superior stats, that's fine with me, too. For multiplayer you can turn them off anyway, and in single races and tournaments I would love having some tougher competition, because after having this game over a month now (and not even playing THAT much due to lack of sparetime), I find myself winning rather easily in single player, so I would love the new ships to provide more competition.
I hate it when you're the 1st without real competition. In the old games there's a kind of guaranty that you're the 1st after a few laps and overlap some ships. Then the game is going to be boring.
I've played wo3 Se to the end now and when I fly a race I always win - and that's NOT cool. I would love to see a new WipEout with different competition levels. Starting at easy and ending with very hard. That would be cool!
don't get me wrong, purE is VERY challenging the first time through. But once you get good at it, you end up winning almost every race. But not like leading the pack by lap 2, like in previous wipEouts, it's much better now, and much more thrilling. Still, I wouldn't mind having it even harder.
Yeah yeah, I find them totally ugly, but it's my idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney
I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by eLhabib
After all, i'm not looking at the "realism" or something like that.
I'm saying that round, smooth, unbalanced pods have nothing in common with WipEout World.
http://www.feiyen.com/var/wipeoutstyles.gif
can you see the difference between the 2 styles?
The blue-one is cut-edged, dynamic, straight, logic.
The orange one is round, smooth, toy-like.
You can prefer the orange one... i prefer the classic wipeout style.
And believe me... you can make a LOT of different ships with that style.
The Orange style is for Quantum Redshift, for Pod, for Rollcage or for anything you want... but it's not wipeout. Imho.
:)
I completely agree with you mate :)
IMO, the thing is that designers design ships not for themselves, but for the players. Hence, the ship design should be a result of a recognition of what players expect from a game giving the overall style a new direction towards which the design should be led. If this rule is broken, ... well there's the Medievil ship. Van Uber and Tigron are ships from Fusion, which - concerning the ship design - was quite far from Wipeout as such. That's why their design is controversial even if slightly remodelled. I personally don't know why the designers didn't decide to completely change the design of these two ships, as they could have only benefit from redesigning. There's no question of redesigning ships, if their design is awkward and not acceptable by the majority of players, it's the same when all of the ships look the same and there's a need for varying the design (vide Auricom and Qirex design change since W'O"). The identity of the teams (VU and Tigron) could have been maintained if the design was led in a different way (namely leaving the basic ideas for the design, concerning the ship's ID, and create a new model from scratch, not redesigning the ship).
The other thing is that if you don't like the craft, you don't use it. If you don't like the craft because it has a 'bad' design (but still it's designed properly if we're talking about a "Wipeout ship design model" - sharp edges in this case) then okay, you don't need to fly it. But when the ship is far away from what we're used to see and start to love, (and is designed in a COMPLETELY different way), then the game is pulled down by inapropriate ship design, and it's not fair to say 'you don't like it - don't fly it' Then we don't fly this ship because they don't fit the game, not because they fit the game but we don't like it. It's a bit complicated, but i hope you get my point :) Let me put it this way. Supposing a sequel to Pure exists. And so there are industrial tracks, a snowy track, a jungle track, AND a track that leads through the centre of the Earth and which finish line is in China once you fly through the core of the Earth. Now, would NOT you fly this track because you don't like the track, or because it's miles away from the game concept?
you can't put ship design and track design on one level. If I don't like the looks of a ship, I can decide not to use it or maybe switch to nosecam so I don't have to see it, and my racing gameplay will not be affected by it. If a whole track is unappropriate for wipEout, I would really feel like missing out on something if I decide not to race on it. And if I race it, and it doesn't look or feel like w'o'' should look and feel, that really makes my gaming experience worse. Look at the energy barriers in Fusion, for example. They were terrible parts of track which could mess up your race totally if you ever so slightly touched them. Did it make my gaming experience worse? YES. Now the ship design in Fusion was nowhere near w'o'' quality, there was only one ship I really liked from its looks, and that was EG.r, which I used then. Did it make my gaming experience worse? Maybe a little, but not in the same way the tracks spoiled the game. Now in purE I'm sure everyone will find more than one ship design that suits him, so don't come whining that it ruins the game for you.
It's funny, everytime a game is near perfect, people all of a sudden start picking on little details they wouldn't even care about in every other game. No game is absolutely perfect. but IMHO wipEout purE comes pretty damn close.
btw, I don't think it would have been a good idea to change the designs of the Fusion ships too much. Sure, they don't fit in perfectly with the other ships, but for me it would have lost the little nostalgic effect if they had changed too much. And they sure have made them slicker than they were in Fusion.
Okay, it's been explained a couple of times already that the 'don't use it' thing doesn't really apply as the ships are part of the overall feel and they still race alongside you on the track.
Also it's funny that the idea that, if they were changed, the Fusion ships wouldn't remind people of the ships they raced in Fuision when that is the very game that butchered most of the ship designs. A game that turns Auricom into a tank does not deserve to have its designs kept faithful. It's not like Fusion had any respect for heritage or nostalgia, is it?
As for whining or whatever, look - we love WO and I certainly love Pure but don't call everyone who has anything negative to say whiners. It's not pleasant. The game is excellent. It's not perfect but, even if it was, we would all be entitled to our opinions on it. Stating your opinion is one thing, calling peope whiners for stating theirs is just bad form.
Agreed.
eLhabib - i suggest you read the first word of my previous post.
As for the ship and track design relevance i say it's equal. You may have been pissed because of the energy walls more than flying ONE ship that suited you, I was more angry finding that the only ship I could fly was Feisar (and MAYBE Piranha), whilst i praised the ones who created these twisted tracks. so??............
"it's just a matter of how you look at it, that's all" (Unkle - I need something stronger).
or is it? (i'm not here to argue anyway)
Well i am suprised the Egg hasnt chipped in (or slapped someone) yet.
Look on the bright side - there are goteki and icarus to come yet. Goteki being the big square vetaliton shaft mother of a ship-ship, icarus being a flying dagger (which was pink... :? )
Anyway, vanuber may look i lil controvercial but if you are really getiing worked up about it, at least you didn't pay for it but if that doesnt cool you off, get out more.
.
a reminder:
Discussion is good; argument is not good.
Keep it rational, not emotional
Bear in mind that no one's exact point of view and opinions are 100 per cent shared by anyone else in the universe
There is no one perfect thing, no one absolute human truth;
Your own truth is only one of many truths
.
i said why i can't appreciate the craft design, and i made a quick sketch [better then 1000 words] that explains the difference between the original, sharp, straight, dynamic design and this rounded, smooth and toy-like design.
More than this isn't possible, because the discussion is based on everyone taste and "imagery".
But it's not like "for me it's good, for you not, so peace & love"... the reason i explained are real, objective.
PLEASE... make some [1-2] ships good to fly and with a w'o'' or w'o''2097 design [qirex & auricom].
Please :oops:
edit by Lance: unnecessary quote removed
I don’t see the problem with a little design change; a few ships with a new design are a good thing. Just makes it a tad more realistic to see a change in craft design over time, look at cars and how much they have changed over the last say 50 years, we’re talking hundreds of years here if the craft remained the same exact style since WO it would give the impression that the technology was out of date