Then on the specifics, Bruce, we're actually in agreement. Which is nice!
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Then on the specifics, Bruce, we're actually in agreement. Which is nice!
I didn`t say it`s simply about difficulty options, I just said I see no harm in having them set wider. Having said I don`t mind that idea, I don`t see why anyone would ever be satisfied with a mode that was so easy you could get a medal while playing constant kill-the-walls, because Wipeout isn`t really any fun while you`re smashing the walls all the time anyway. Overcoming that is part of the point, as George pointed out. While it`s still bloody hard to beat the best players, I agree with many of the points made that the basic gameplay has got easier, but that`s a different matter, I think, and I`ve already contributed enough to the off-topic expedition! :)
To use reductio ad absurdum to point out what I believe to be the fallacy of the make-it-easier-for-newbies argument:
[sarcasm alert]I've got an idea: to make it easier for newbies or casual gamers to enjoy the game, we could ease the difficulty of getting at least a bronze medal so they can 'progress' through the game and open content by offering Level 1 difficulty rating, which would allow you to select a ship which would then be run by the autopilot and automatically win bronze. This would not cheapen the game at all or compromise its integrity nor make achievement empty. Level 2 would allow the user to have speed control, but automatically control all other functions, which would gradually all be put under player control by level 6, at which time you would be able to open exactly the same content as you would at level 1, but would actually have to work for it.[/end sarcasm alert]
Thoughts?
I think your argument has a fallacy...since it seems to imply that any game that has cheat codes are worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I enjoy playing Wipeout because I gain satisfaction from mastering the vehicles, levels, and nuances of the game. My level of enjoyment is unchanged whether someone else plays the whole game on autopilot or not.
You seem to be saying that if someone else plays the game on autopilot, it will diminish the enjoyment I get from mastering Wipeout without it. And I simply don't see the connection.
For example, many old school games were challenging. But there were also cheat codes that allowed people to breeze through those games. According to your logic, those games would've all been worthless since there was the option of breezing through the game, yet it certainly wasn't the case.
Oddly enough, in my opinion games with cheat codes ARE worthless.
I think if WOXL didn't have that "code input" screen I would like it more. As it is, it and WO64 are the versions I play the least.
Just my opinion, but it only takes one counter-example to disprove a general theory.
that's a whole lot of games! and with game-genie/game shark, essentially every old school game had cheat codes.
The difference between a cheat code (typing in "idgod") and a gameshark (specialized hardware/software to allow runtime memory editing) is pretty enormous.
Are you on the Analogy Police Top 10 Most Wanted list? 8 D
LOL:o
haha Task, nice.
8)
What I actually said wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Dogg Thang
"sometimes I want a game that merely entertains me "
you missed the sometimes off my quote when you quoted me ....
I didnt say it had to be every game
I do however want wipeout to be more inclusive, traditionally it has been elitist and I dont know why that is seen as beneficial. I dont think it will ever be all things to all gamers, but I do know for a fact that it could be more appealing to more people, and I do know that as part of my job I have to make a game that appeals and is popular amongst more people than a top 0.1% hardcore. Through user testing and studies one thing that has always been levelled at Wipeout, be it from Sony Europe, Sony America or Sony Japan, is that the entry bar is too high, the game is too hard. So we were told to make Pulse easier, rather than make it easier across the board we included difficulty levels to allow new players to start on easy and not feel the traditional frustrations. We put hard in to provide a greater challenge to the more experienced player. We got it partly right, the easy mode is easy but the game is still frustrating for people who havent played it before, as such we have revised it further with Wipeout HD and introduced racising assists for new players who can turn them on / off to help them adjust to the controls of Wipeout.
But I can honestly say that if someone here has been playing wipeout for 10yrs then its very unlikely we will ever make a wipeout game that will be hard for them to play, because people have built up such a wealth of experience and skill. Each time a new pro evo comes out I set it to difficulty max but its not long before I have it mastered and the challenge comes from playing other people not the AI. It was the same with Street Fighter in years gone by. It is the same for some people with Wipeout and that unfortunately comes from being a dedicated fanatic.
But then I still cant see how a hardcore players experience of wipeout is cheapened by making the easy mode easier which was what masterbruce suggested.
Now if you feel the game as a whole has been made easier that is really a different argument, its not what he (masterbruce) suggested nor advocated. And it is true, the handling model is more forgiving than earlier days the physics etc have changed over time, and I am sure for some people it is a change for the worse, likewise for some a change for the better. Am I completely happy with the game its handling, physics etc... It depends who you are speaking to... Colin Berry the Designer who has a job to do and has to adhere to certain criteria and answer to other people, or Colin Berry the Wipeout fan (who adores 2097 and dislikes Wo3) then well.. . . . . .. As either I am never satisfied and often for different reasons.
I am not making the game for me, it isnt nor should it ever be Colin Berrys Wipeout. I am happy with many shifts in the game and with many things it does, I get my personal stamp on a lot of it and I get to help steer the direction, but I do not have complete control to do as I choose. That doesnt mean I personally as a wipeout fan agree or disagree with everything. I dont. But I win more battles than I lose and the designers tend to get a good enough say in things. Sometimes we have to give a little to get a little though.
Always nice to see the developers giving their statements.
Could you tell us a bit more about the WO:HD's assistant? I can't quite imagine that right now :)
And there was a thing that just came to my mind. Why not make 10 difficulty levels you can select from a sliding bar? So if you feel like "easy" is to easy and "hard" is too challenging, you take whatever in between. I think that would make sense :)
Ah and btw: why don't you give your stamp a bit of WO:2097's handling and floatiness? ;)
Awesome posts Colin, thx for spending time lurking and posting when you got time.
As you know i am a deep passionated wipeout pilot and be qualified to include the 0.01% of Wipeout hardcore racers list and i am completely ok to let the game easier access for the newbee and make the game harder for us the diehard pilots without degrading the gameplay. What you did for Pulse with the 3 categories of AI is great, maybe like few others said let the 'easy' been easier and the hard far more harder. and set up about TT a platinum medal = racing the racetimeghost of your best beta tester or someone from here ;) :D
Well we are currently finalising the difficulty for HD and we are making the easy a little easier.... we are also making the hard... harder. We are going to try and push it to as hard as we can / are allowed to (note this is the AI not time requirements)
We've made a few other little changes too, a couple of weapons pads have gone from a few tracks, the barrel roll remains but gives less of a boost, its less of a deal breaker... it also costs more energy to use it so it becomes far harder to chain them and more of a risk, its something we are still fiddling with to find something we are totally happy with. The aggression has been toned down a little, but you still get some races that have a lot of weapons and others than dont, its the nature of the randomness of the weapon pick up logic but I'd say its reaching a happier balance, in 10 race you might have 2 sedate, 2 weapon heavy and 6 around middling...
There are lots of other refinements and little additions but I dont want to say too much other than mention the above as these are things oft commented on. And ther eis one thing thats going to blow people away, but words cant do it justice.
Naturally I am bias, but right now HD is looking pretty damn good and though there are many things left to polish and fix and get done and time is as ever against us, its shaping up well.
Its probably the happiest and most confident I've been about a project at this stage of development, seems every 2 weeks when I sit back and look at it in a detached way, its really moved on in many aspects. Lots of work remains though
Sorry to barge in and fire off a question, but is there any chance Wipeout HD will let you scrape against walls without slowing down like you could in 2097?
I think it would make the game more appealing & inclusive if just barely scraping against a wall gave you a cool graphical & sound effect, rather than immediately slowing you down.
"barely scraping against a wall" does not slow you down that much in Pulse either. The difference is, that in Pulse you will get sucked against a wall more and more (depending on your ship's angle against the wall this sometimes happens immediately) if you don't sideshift your ship away from it.
@Topic: I can't remember who suggested it, but having Ghosts to beat like in F-Zero or MarioKart is a great idea. Like in those mentioned games it could be an option that unlocks after you beat the (already very hard) Gold requirements. I mean, there simply has to be something in games that should be possible in theory but remain unreachable for the majority of gamers in practice.
We already have that, it`s called "beating Arnaud." ;)
Thanks for that great information, Colin. I`m very excited about the whole thing now, and love the sound of the developments, in particular what you`re doing to the dreaded Barrel Roll. :)
lol Stephen :lol
Oh, I'll be delighted to answer! :gQuote:
Originally Posted by guillaume
Well I don't know about Single Races, but that indeed happens in Head To Head.
I'll get back to you as soon as I have more information!
Sorry not to answer you sooner, with Dag we tested it last time and if you been hit by a weapon or a ship or a wall in SR you won't have a perfect lap
Oh don't be sorry, I was just joking :)
And thanks for the answer!
Even with a weapon? Do you reckon this was done on purpose?
It's a bit hard, don't you think?
Colin may answer better on that question, Guillaume
Hard to acheive a real perfect race with 5 PL on hard mode SR phantom Outpost 7, lol for sure it is!! and not only due to the 1st lap :g
Seriously having a PL really means what it is : no collision at all in any way.
You can ride on top of a wall and still get a Perfect Lap. I`ve tested this with my dodgy Phantom piloting. I think the PL may be awarded for a lap where you don`t take any damage points. With a shield you can hit stuff and get a PL, I think.
In Pure you could be hit with weapons and get a PL. On Kai you`d do a 55 second lap of Sebenco Climb, ploughing through about 11 bombs and getting a couple of backquakes in your face for good measure, finally make it back to the start and get "Perfect Lap." Well, hardly...... :dizzy
With a shield you can hit stuff and get a PL, I think.
Yes you get a PL in this case.
About riding the top of a mini wall i didn't knew this , thx Stephen ;)
You can also get a perfect lap if you fall off a bridge, yes, how perfect.
First, i think I think that pulse is the best wipeout game since 2097/XL, but there are few things which i don't like.
-track design is good in general, but amphiseum and de konstrukt are really boring and less ispired than others. (imho)
-the game is easer than pure, which was already easy.
-the menus are really functional, but pure's one was the best ever: why change it? I also don't like hint and tips during loading time, is Wipeout, not Burnout..
-freezing is becoming a problem until i saved new race packs and mp3s.
-of course, the impossibility to use downloaded ships in multiplayer matches
-ships are not too well balanced in stats, it's easier to win with piranha, triakis or icaras
-the remixed song of Kraftwerk, "aero dynamik" really sucks: original version was way better.
Things I don't like:
1. The atmosphere. Something's just missing... It's all a little too neon with all the funky lights and effects everywhere. Loved the first 3 incarnations' atmosphere, especially the one from Wipeout 2097. I can't quite put my finger on what's missing, but as others have pointed out before, there's TOO MUCH going on. Every track has the same general feel, except for Platinum Rush, which I find awesome. For me this is the most important thing next to the handling in a Wipeout game. Of course this is a personal thing, but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of Wipers who like to see a difference.
2. Handling. Controls are too easy which has led me to use the less manoueverable ships most of the time. Those ships feel a little more like old Wipeout. When I'm going for some Time Trialling it's harder for me to see what I've done worse or better than on other laps (in perfect laps, that is... ), except for missing the obvious Barrel roll or two. During most of my time trials all I have to do now is focus on not missing any barrel roll and not crashing against any wall afterwards (especially in places where it's less usual to use a BR). This is just incredibly boring. Racing lines are still there but it just doesn't feel as rewarding as before getting it right, because it's too damn easy.
3. Bugs, bugs, bugs. These have all been pointed out.
4. The music. Not very strong and some songs annoy me. Exceeder is okay but too repetitive.
There are no other things I don't like about Pulse, but if these 4 points had been better, I'd enjoyed the game a whole lot better.
The only thing that irks me are the Time Trial and Speed Lap races in general; I find myself frowning every time I see either event in a grid. The harshly strict gold medal time-limit they expect you to cross the finish-line under borders on needing near-supernatural skill.
That, or select the 'race again' option four to seven times until you reach the limit just nanoseconds before silver or - ugh - bronze. The only way to achieve gold in those challenges seems to rely entirely on not hitting anything, crossing every mag-strip (again without colliding into anything) and using the free turbo in just the right spots: with all of these accomplished, you will be lucky to make it with barely under a second left to spare.
One thing I agree on is how in Rapier, the AI tear you apart with weapons...but that's not as annoying as, again, the time-limits of Time Trial and Speed Lap. I haven't made it to Phantom yet, though, and I hear that's where the frustration kindles...
On a completely different note, I find myself missing the old sound-effects of the menus from earlier games. My favorite WipEout incarnation so far was the original for the PS1 in 1995 (it was just plain 36K, I think); the quirky menu-sounds, the weapon-grid activation sounds during races, the 'dark' atmosphere and most definitely the music.
Pulse's vibrant colors, intricate graphics for its type and the almost-poetic descriptions of the tracks spoken by a robotic voiceover before each race makes it a highly worthy WipEout installment; there are some good music tracks here and there, but others lack the classic WipEout 'feel'; even so, this version hits home, even with the flaws that people seem to be finding.
Hm. I think the Time Trial times for gold are not too hard (more the other way around). Especially not compared to Pure. A few barrel rolls (urgh) here and there and you will easily get the gold medal.
LOL...I was trying to hide the fact that I'm too stubborn to use a faster craft for those challenges. >_>'
Ha, I used to have the same reaction. Now though, the Speed lap events always make my smile, since I only have to beat the gold medal time for one lap, and I can just end the session to claim my prize. :) .
I didn't know that...! I thought it counted up how many gold times you got, and how many silver/bronze times you got and whichever one you had more it just gave you the corresponding medal.
...hm. Oddly, though, this still doesn't make me want to leave them incomplete. xD
delci, in phantom class time trial time-to-beat are made for idiots.. when you'll reach that speed class you could even go backwards and still get gold! just wait and hold onQuote:
Originally Posted by Delci
Yeah, mostly I was talking about Venom (and maybe Flash) Time Trial times...but Rapier is easier, and Phantom...I can only imagine.
It's strange.. I mean, the game is supposed to get harder while playing, and upper speed class should mean harsh times to beat..
Well, on the other hand phantom class seem to me a little faster than it was on pure. anyone noticed?
From what i recall, it was alot harder to win phantom races in the old wipeouts.
Its been many years since I played though so maybe I forgot.
Some people mentioned the atmosphere/mood of the game and I agree.
XL had a better vibe to it and those slamming menus were killer.
Seems like in Pulse the hard AI is awesome at shooting but not so much in flying.
What the heck is this barrel roll stuff???
Its been a month or so and I'm still getting used to them.
Landing upside down and sideways is not fun.
But I see that people have mastered it so I'll just keep practicing.
The floaty parts of some tracks on phantom really ruin the flow.
I think it sucks that americas got the game months late and still can't get expansion packs.
I want my icarus, fool! :mr-t
There sure are some quirks about Pulse and they have been covered enough in this thread but I think in general its great and the online play is awesome.
Are you sure about that Arnaud?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asayyeah
I just got two perfect laps, one where I got hit by machine gun bullets, and another one where I got hit by a quake.
I am not even sure of me and my memory : Scottish syndrome :g
I was thinking it might be Scotch Syndrome, instead. Glenfiddich, maybe? ;) :D
that is a quality ale, and one that I would highly recommend if wipeout and alcohol are to be combined.
Not exactly an ale. :) A good bit stronger stuff.