Top Speeds Research

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31st July 2009, 02:01 PM
archman

Top Speeds Research

After some time of thinking whether pitching control affects the top speed or not, I've come to realize that it would be interesting to actually take the ships out on the racetrack and test it. MrSmadSmartAlex helped me in that. We used all ships on Moa Therma Black and Talon's Junction Black at all speed classes. The measuring place on Moa was the big loop part with the Magstrip, where we noted the non-pitched top speed, as the speed is the same as when not pitching on the non-magstriped spot. The other spot took place on the finishing line section of Talon, where we tested the pitch-down and (again) non-pitched top speed. Here's what we've come up with (speeds in kph aka Km/h, speed increases in percentage (%)):

Code:

Phantom | Speed Stat No-Pitch Pitch-down Increase -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Icaras | 10/10 793 810 2.099 Piranha | 10/10 793 810 2.099 Auricom | 9/10 790 807 2.107 Triakis | 9/10 790 807 2.107 Assegai | 8/10 787 804 2.114 EG.X | 8/10 787 804 2.114 Harimau | 8/10 787 804 2.114 Mirage | 8/10 787 804 2.114 Qirex | 8/10 787 804 2.114 AG-SYS | 7/10 784 801 2.122 Feisar | 7/10 784 801 2.122 Goteki 45 | 7/10 784 801 2.122

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Rapier | Speed Stat No-Pitch Pitch-down Increase ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Icaras | 10/10 657 677 2.954 Piranha | 10/10 657 677 2.954 Auricom | 9/10 654 674 2.967 Triakis | 9/10 654 674 2.967 Assegai | 8/10 651 671 2.980 EG.X | 8/10 651 671 2.980 Harimau | 8/10 651 671 2.980 Mirage | 8/10 651 671 2.980 Qirex | 8/10 651 671 2.980 AG-SYS | 7/10 648 668 2.994 Feisar | 7/10 648 668 2.994 Goteki 45 | 7/10 648 668 2.994

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Flash | Speed Stat No-Pitch Pitch-down Increase ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Icaras | 10/10 538 563 4.440 Piranha | 10/10 538 563 4.440 Auricom | 9/10 535 560 4.464 Triakis | 9/10 535 560 4.464 Assegai | 8/10 532 557 4.488 EG.X | 8/10 532 557 4.488 Harimau | 8/10 532 557 4.488 Mirage | 8/10 532 557 4.488 Qirex | 8/10 532 557 4.488 AG-SYS | 7/10 529 554 4.513 Feisar | 7/10 529 554 4.513 Goteki 45 | 7/10 529 554 4.513

Code:

Venom | Speed Stat No-Pitch Pitch-down Increase ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Icaras | 10/10 462 489 5.521 Piranha | 10/10 462 489 5.521 Auricom | 9/10 459 486 5.556 Triakis | 9/10 459 486 5.556 Assegai | 8/10 456 483 5.590 EG.X | 8/10 456 483 5.590 Harimau | 8/10 456 483 5.590 Mirage | 8/10 456 483 5.590 Qirex | 8/10 456 483 5.590 AG-SYS | 7/10 453 480 5.625 Feisar | 7/10 453 480 5.625 Goteki 45 | 7/10 453 480 5.625

So as how it's seen in the above tables, we can conclude that the Phantom class brings the least pitchdown increase in top speed by 2.099 - 2.122 % (0.023% range) with 17kph boost. Rapier Class' increase ranges from 2.954 to 2.994 % (0.04% range) with 20kph of boost. Flash Class increases from evidently bigger 4.440 to 4.513 % (0.073% range) with a 25kph big boost. The slowest one, but with the most increases in boost is the Venom Class, where the range is from 5.521 to 5.625 % (0.104% range) with a 27kph speed boost.

One speed stat increases ship's top speed by 3kph in all speed classes. Also seems that the same-topspeed-stat ships have exactly the same top speeds.

I've also tried doing some rough maths to compare pitch and no pitch piloting.
Pitched-down Icaras vs non-pitched Goteki 45 on Moa Therma White (5.3km) at Phantom Class brings a difference of 0.78s in an average laptime (t=s/v !), where Icaras does a 23.56s laptime and G45 a 24.34s laptime. Let's see some more examples. EG.X produced a top speed of 787kph when not pitched down, and 804 when pitched-down. Outpost 7 White is 5.1km long. The laptime difference is 0.49s (22.84s and 23.33s laptimes). A Very minor difference.
Piranha(no pitch) vs Feisar(pitched), Tech De Ra White (5km). The laptime difference of 0.23s makes Feisar (3 speed points weaker than a Piranha) a faster one with pitching down.
Rapier class, Piranha(no pitch) vs Feisar(pitched), Tech De Ra White (5km). The laptime difference of 0.45s, which, again, makes Feisar a faster one with pitching down.
The same case on Flash Class brings the difference of a big 0.97s, where on Venom it brings even more than a whole second, a 1.46s!
Seems like the lower speed classes bring some more interesting statistics than Phantom does, which is IMO a nice notice, cause it makes the multiplayer game even more unlikely.

This study can clear up some dilemmas like "Am I really that slower with a Goteki 45 against a Piranha on the straights?" and make you do your final choice of ships. I still think that the Top Speed and Thrust ship stats are the most important and IMO, it's the best to aim for an "8-top-speed-stat" ships, because they still give a decent amount of thrust and make up a nice top speed/thrust balanced ship.

All-in-all, stats can't help you. You're alone on the track. The skill is the only thing that's important. :)
31st July 2009, 03:44 PM
ACE-FLO

I think it's pretty obvious that pitching nose down increases top speed Arch... and it's already known that pitching down does not make you faster on the mag-strips...

Good test though, lol

Also interesting to see how much pitch affects the ship, though marginal - it makes a difference to overall time stat. Very interesting indeed!!!
31st July 2009, 09:51 PM
Task

Very cool!
How about adding in the DLC ships?
And adding a column for the speed stat for each ship to the chart?
And sorting it by Top Speed?
And adding a column for percentage of top speed gain increase with pitch?

I think the most interesting thing learned here is that the speed gain appears to be a constant regardless of ship. So slower ships are seeing a slightly larger benefit (they get a larger percentage increase in top speed) than the faster ships.

It's very also good to see that in true WO fashion the difference between "best" and "worst" is very small, a piddling 9 Kph in this case.

Good study!
1st August 2009, 11:45 AM
archman

edit: Added Speed Stats, DLC Ships, speed increase by using pitch-down; sorted by Top Speed (Thanks, Task)
1st August 2009, 11:52 AM
NightArh

Great work Arch! Thanks for this information!
2nd August 2009, 02:35 PM
KIGO1987

FM! Great effort and intel there Arch.
4th August 2009, 10:39 PM
Task

Yeah, that's a solid dataset there!
Hmm, so that one table you've got is for Phantom, so you could put "PHANTOM" in the top-left corner or something to label it as such.
Then you could do up a couple more tables for the other speed classes!
I'm quite curious to see if the pitch-down speed increase remains constant per speed class or decreases. A 17 Kph increase in Venom means a heck of a lot more (you'll see a larger value in the % column) than in Phantom.
About 2.1% for Phantom, though. Rough average. Good to know.
5th August 2009, 09:28 AM
archman

Sure will do. Cheers! ;)

Edit: Did it. Check it out. :)
5th August 2009, 12:18 PM
ACE-FLO

Yes, this experiment is quite thorough now. I didn't know pitch dynamics could affect speed by that much at the lower speed classes.

I also noticed something else, Turbo-ing and pitching down seems to allow your ship to maintain the top speed for longer. Pardon my explanation but am typing from PSP. I can elaborate further, let me fire up the PC.

Edit: PC fired up successfully lol

Ok - I noticed when I was doing TT on Talons Junction W at Phantom that when I use my Turbo on the straight after the last bend of the track, whilst pitching down - I could hear the sound of the engine pitch up through the turbo, then stay pitched up for as long as I pitch down, now that's awesome - but when approaching the bends the speed drops to regular max speed. This is just my observation, but it is interesting because I got my best times on TT using this method!

Can anyone else confirm this - Maybe Archman?

EDIT: Ok - after being in touch with Archman through MSN, I have come to realise that Pitch down + Turbo doesn't hold the top speed up for longer, but actually the rate at which speed will drop after the turbo is is engaged and spent - is slower, so appearing to hold the top speed for longer.
5th August 2009, 03:23 PM
NightArh

And what can you say about acceleration with and without pitch down?
5th August 2009, 04:00 PM
archman

Can't say anything for sure. I'm not sure of how to measure it, but to look into the game files. Will try it with someones help. Soon.
10th September 2009, 11:51 AM
XpanDrome2097

Ehm....1 point=3km/h?
And if I look at the Icaras page (from WipEout Game site) and I read this....

Quote:

Well drilled and despite their modest budget, their speed is blinding.

WTF, 9Km/h more than Feisar :g!
10th September 2009, 12:57 PM
JABBERJAW

That is why it is just better to use the high acceleration ships. As soon as you hit once with a harder handling high speed ship, you speed advantage is gone, not to mention the acceleration ships getting those mines first
10th September 2009, 01:50 PM
MrSmadSmartAlex

Well, that 9km/h speed difference between say, a Piranha and a Goteki-45 might seem like a pitiful amount, but let's look at it over a whole race (Phantom):

Moa Therma White is 5350m (or 5.35km) long.
9km/h = 0.15km/s
0.15 x 5.35 = 0.8025(seconds)
0.8025 x 5(laps) = 4.0125

So a Piranha has a theoretical advantage of over 4 seconds over a Goteki-45 on Moa W Phantom. Of course, this assumes top speed and perfect racing for the entire race, and doesn't take into account the initial thrust at the start of the race, and also that G45 will come out of any corners which cause/require slowing down quicker than the Piranha will. So they can both perform well, you just need to use a ship's strengths.
I think with the stats, it's just trading one off for another, and that all the ships are very well balanced overall. Just pick the one you like best, and learn to use it - there's no real "supership" in Pulse (not even my beloved EG-X:lol).
10th September 2009, 04:54 PM
JABBERJAW

yeah but the goteki leaves the mine and it's over. Also, the piranha unfortunately doesn't turn as well, and is harder to control. Oh yeah, if you go to vertica, with no BRs, you can see there is basically no difference in the times for any of the ships, on a very easy track. I think with the exception of Icarus, that the overall times I got were all with 1 second using all of the ships.

The difference between goteki and Icarus was .3 seconds for the entire race
10th September 2009, 05:16 PM
MrSmadSmartAlex

True, but that's assuming the first weapons pad in a race gives you mines or a bomb. Often for me, it's something utterly useless, like rockets, or autopilot.:lol
Yeah, the Piranha is harder to turn, but all the ships can get around all of the corners clean, and some might see it as more "stable" handling, rather than "worse" handling. If a fast ship (in the hands of a skilled, consistent pilot) does manage to get away (out of most weapons' range), then the race is going to be very difficult for the Goteki.
Ah, just noticed your edit. I totally agree - the ships are balanced enough that all are competitive. Maybe minor differences on some tracks for TT.:)
10th September 2009, 05:25 PM
ACE-FLO

I agree with Al and Smad, all ships are fairly balanced in Pulse. But would like to add that new phantom class pilots should not use the lower handling/faster ships to begin with. Instead, to try the higher handling ships first. Phantom is very different to the Rapier speed class.
10th September 2009, 05:50 PM
JABBERJAW

some might see it as more "stable" handling, rather than "worse" handling

I agree, with the exception of a few tracks, like outpost 7, where piranha is crappy, but there are quick left rights that make it difficult to not hit with this tank of a ship :)

I used to get pretty ticked off racing against the goteki, due to the reasons I listed earlier (and this was when I was using ag sys). So now I just use the goteki to not run into those problems. I would use the icarus, but since it not useable online, no dice
10th September 2009, 09:56 PM
XpanDrome2097

This is true! In fact I use only high-thrust ships: AG-Systems, Goteki45 and EG-X, and this is my definitive list (I don't use Harimau anymore, bacause it's very slow to accellerate)!
Yes, very balanced game, but with this little high speed differences I prefer only ships with great thrust :clap.