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Amaroq Dricaldari
6th July 2012, 01:19 PM
It has been a while since I saw a joke post on this thread, so I thought I would liven it up a bit.

@zero3growlithe
Maybe you should just have an AI Director do everything for you :lol

Xpand
6th July 2012, 01:19 PM
Yay, my new navigation system is so awesome! :D Now it is damn smooth on every speed and I have smooth speed control over AI ships and it's expandable to make them turn faster or slower too and whatever I can imagine ^^:+ And it works faster as I predicted and new "placing system" is not needed :P Although creating perfect "racing lines" for AI is quite time consuming as you have to estimate place and speed for every node X_X Speed can't be either too big or too small cos player can't have easy time with them :P

That's great, BUT, and here's the question did you use the correct scale for the track, and the new track? Because the one I sent you is completely diferent from the one you had in the last compiled version of the game... I'm going to try and finish Cassandra today and I'm going to instruct you on how to put it in game, properly, so we have a definitive version for that track. Just be around skype, when you can.

zero3growlithe
6th July 2012, 01:32 PM
Eeeeerm, I thought about it after I finished making all nodes so no xD But changes can be made very quickly by changing ships scales properly so track scale can be the same and it will look as you want. Send me this properly scaled version of Cassandra after you finish it and I WILL take care of it.
btw. Click, and I'm on Skype xd

@Amaroq: If Unity would have "object programming" then it would look like this :P But here every AI has its own rules X_x

Rotational_aspect
6th July 2012, 01:55 PM
Zero: AI sounds really good, in the end did you go for a collision or distance based approach to your node nav points?

feisar rocket
6th July 2012, 02:34 PM
He might be talking about Corridon 12... like 80% split

Yea, my track has long splits and... A really big jump. No, it's like CP's jump... x5 (better example, florion heights 3's jump... ×3)
I only have a line version ATM... I'll draw the track now.

Name: <none>
location: <a city, in a cold place>

Give me a name and I'll make the discription

Amaroq Dricaldari
6th July 2012, 02:58 PM
How about a track with a Chenghou Project jump, except there is a track split at said jump, and you have to choose which track section to jump onto. There are two different track sections, in some areas the left route is more difficult but faster, while in areas the right route is more difficult but faster. In other words, both track sections have a similiar length and difficulty.

docfo4r
6th July 2012, 03:17 PM
Just remind yourself that we need a second version of that track then or it can only raced forwards if it has jumps in it...

F.E.I.S.A.R
6th July 2012, 03:22 PM
Or tweak the track so that the jump is like the jump of Platinum Rush...



It has been a while since I saw a joke post on this thread, so I thought I would liven it up a bit.

@zero3growlithe
Maybe you should just have an AI Director do everything for you :lol
And break thread continuity that could lead to higher efficiency?

Also,not to be irritating or what-else,but...


Has anyone written the complete backstory? If this is part of the WipEout universe then someone has to write the story of the FX-150 league. And boy will there be quite a bit of fan wank...

feisar rocket
6th July 2012, 03:25 PM
I have an idea for rev, like TA in pulse... (big jump forward, tunnel rev)

zero3growlithe
6th July 2012, 04:05 PM
@Aspect: Distance based one cos it has better performance. If there will be problem with them being missed then I can just add a new variable that will give them individual detection range :P

F.E.I.S.A.R
6th July 2012, 04:37 PM
Anyone mind if Triakis,AG Systems International and some other teams appear as parts suppliers in this game, or is this already planned?

Xpand
6th July 2012, 05:59 PM
....Calculating ground shadows... Almost ready! Only the bilboards and direction assist holograms are left.

docfo4r
6th July 2012, 08:43 PM
@F.E.I.S.A.R
I will write a story within the next week. But please have some patience, a good story should take its time ;)

Also, hmmm I don't know how the others think about it but I wouldn't place so many obvious Wipeout stuff like that part suppliers in the game or it'll look too much of a wanna-be-Wipeout. But to add a little bit, maybe ONE part supplier from another Wipeout team could be a cool easter egg ;) Also it's a question if we even have the rights to use the Wipeout names...

Xpand
6th July 2012, 11:06 PM
Last but not least:
63686369

99.99999999999999% Just placing the bilboards with the ads.

And it is DONE! FINALY! After 11 months and 23 days of work!
63706371

Thanks to Type Proton for the advertising designs. I just had to paint them up in PS.

Oh man it felt like it took forever! It's not free of some adjustments, though.
Here's an overview of the track:
6372

Mikahail
6th July 2012, 11:23 PM
Well done ! :+

docfo4r
7th July 2012, 01:14 AM
That's all? :blarg

Nah, just kidding^^ Awesome work man!! The track looks great, I like the mixture of the colors. And that board on the finish line looks great aswell.
You had that other track, Draco Cavernae, working at, right? Going for this one now? What's the next step?

Sorry, I'm curious, hehe

F.E.I.S.A.R
7th July 2012, 07:07 AM
@F.E.I.S.A.R
I will write a story within the next week. But please have some patience, a good story should take its time ;)

Also, hmmm I don't know how the others think about it but I wouldn't place so many obvious Wipeout stuff like that part suppliers in the game or it'll look too much of a wanna-be-Wipeout. But to add a little bit, maybe ONE part supplier from another Wipeout team could be a cool easter egg ;) Also it's a question if we even have the rights to use the Wipeout names...

I'm free until this Sunday,and I feel that I have not made any significant contribution to this project. If I'm given some resources to write,it would be great.This would also be a good opportunity to brush up on my creative writing skills.

Also,with regards to the "Wannabe-WipEout" part,aren't pilots of the FX-150 considered wanna-be/amateur pilots. If this started after the AG Purity Festival in 2185,and the actual teams turned parts suppliers,does it not make sense to have a few references to the teams?
As for the trademarks and copyright,heard of AG-5Y5?

docfo4r
7th July 2012, 07:52 AM
Alright, if you insist of it, you can take over the writing of the story :)
The thing I was thinking about is not to only have a background story, but also a story going through the whole campaign mode. In Wipeout it's always rather easy, you select a race, win it, go to the next race aso. until you're done. Maybe in SSGX we could supply a liiiittle more creativity. If you like to, we can help out each other a little bit regarding the writing progress. You seem to have more background knowledge so you could write the beginning of everything, backstory and so on and I could go on then to write the story for the campaign mode, because I have some stuff in my mind for that already ;)



Also,with regards to the "Wannabe-WipEout" part,aren't pilots of the FX-150 considered wanna-be/amateur pilots.
You also have to think about people who are playing SSGX and maybe never heard of Wipeout. So for really everyone to enjoy the story, I wouldn't make it based too much on Wipeout related leagues/events.

dreadofmondays
7th July 2012, 09:10 AM
Fantastic work on Cassandra! :D It really looks great!

Oryx Crake
7th July 2012, 12:22 PM
@doc and F.e.i. why not collaborate? I know I don't feel like writing an entire story myself, maybe 2 heads is better than one?

Also: 637363746375 some new buildings added and a slight course change on basin park hill, also been doing some thinking on basin park proper widened some corners and such, sadly there's a limit to what I can do with my crappy gpu (at this point I can't view the model in perspective view without a shitload of "artifacts" popping up all over the place) since I can basically only model in orthographic view as it is now... hopefully this wont mean too much work for whoever takes over the final modeling stuff.

Gonna start work on textures soon, but I must admit that that will probably be slow as I have never tried my hand at texturing before.

docfo4r
7th July 2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah, that's a good idea Oryx!

BTW: Your track looks good so far. I'm sure it will be interesting to drive through it but of course there is lots of work left to do. Good luck with texturing, keep it up!

F.E.I.S.A.R
7th July 2012, 03:58 PM
@doc and F.e.i. why not collaborate? I know I don't feel like writing an entire story myself, maybe 2 heads is better than one?


We'll do just that then
Though I wonder how we will collaborate...I use Hotmail and Gmail,but not Skype...

Xpand
7th July 2012, 05:02 PM
Then get skype. It doesn't cost you anything. I already told people who are working in this project to add my contact, and I only have like 3 contacts...
ricardo.xpand it's not hard and it eases communication a lot. We don't have to use the forums as a chat board...

docfo4r
8th July 2012, 12:30 AM
Yep, I totally prefer Skype aswell!

Also I have to announce that I am in school from Sunday till next Friday and then on holidays until July 18th. Can't use internet in that time so I won't post here for a time. Telling you about it to make sure you guys won't think that I don't care anymore or so ;)
See you later!

Oryx Crake
8th July 2012, 02:30 AM
people should add me to I'm obviously not as knowledgeable as xpand or zero on everything but anything I can help with I will My skype contact is: Frumpman1 or Theodor Andrén

TypeProton
8th July 2012, 12:56 PM
last but not least:
-snip-

w00t!

Alright, I got some new track ideas :

Hu Bian Circuit (Hu Bian means lakeside in chinese. According to Google Translate.), LotusLake (If you want a shorter, more wipeout-ish name.)
General feel (Outside image, I do not own them.) : [link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidgn/4260053549/)][link (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qbmIQuejzwA/TsQC8yizj6I/AAAAAAAADLg/5nT2Rgz1jSg/s1600/DSC_0187.JPG)][link (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f4epoE1X-yY/T3jVAeWBd6I/AAAAAAAAdwc/9Uwm8cuDB9M/s1600/Lan+Su+1.JPG)]
This one came from my time in China, but I forget about them until now. :D

China, being resourceful as ever, decide to create a new anti-gravity racing circuit. Based on ancient Chinese garden house style, Hu Bian Circuit features a long straightforward trip letting you admire lush garden and great Chinese architecture. While the track itself doesn't have many corners, they are packed with minor 45/90 degrees turn during narrow high-speed section under the shades of lakeside buildings with some sharp turns thrown in at both ends of the track. At one point you'll have to make a decision to choose a split-pathways. Faster or more loaded up. While another exciting section is a bumpy run through the garden where pilots will have to tackle a chicane at high speed.

tl;dr : A long-beautiful Chinese track. One part narrow indoor high-speed. One part bumpy semi-outdoor through the garden. One huge lake in the middle. Intermediate difficulty.

Highride (Someone think of better name for me please?)
General feel : Nighttime race on Tokyo highway.

A combined effort of Japanese government and construction firm. The space is limited enough in Tokyo. So they developed a modular highway which can be adjusted as needed. Turning your usual commute into a fully capable Anti-grav racetrack under a week. Designed under concept "Spectacular", it's layout is simple: Straight track with few corners, divined lane and high jumps. What make this track spectacular is the abundance of weapon pads. It's also have long chain of speedpads available through the entire track, if you're good enough to hold it. Racing under the lights of the city, the feel of highway battle is deliberately invoked here. Easy difficulty.

tl:dr : Wide high-speed nighttime highway track. Great for combat or duel events.
- - - - -
I'm going to draw a concept art for it later! Tell me what you think. :)

dreadofmondays
8th July 2012, 01:51 PM
I've been making a track as well. I recently finished the 'landscape' and I need to texture next and start adding structures.
The general theme of my track is a twisty cutting on the side and basin of a valley. It has a huge sweeping turn at the end, and a twisty chicane across the cutting, as well as a three-way crossing and a high line through a small town. :) I'll probably figure out some lore to go with it after the track has been done.

Mikahail
8th July 2012, 02:10 PM
You could use the name "Shutoko" (or modify it) for your Tokyo track. It's the name of the Tokyo Highway and this highway could be the base of your modular highway.

F.E.I.S.A.R
8th July 2012, 03:19 PM
IIRC,Metropia is in Kyoto. And I thought this game is pre FX-300,putting it before 2197? If so,then Metropia would not be there(yet). Construction of such circuits began/begin circa 2202.

For tracks:How many tracks do/did we plan to have? I'm now thinking of a Singapore-Malaysia/Malaysia-Indonesia Supercircuit for the Mach One speed class and wonder if it will work. I'm also thinking of a tracks in both Singapore(the Central Business District) and Kuala Lumpur(Malaysia's capital city). Plan on calling them Singa(Singapore's Courtesy (Campaign) Lion) and Harimau respectively(The Lion and Tiger.How much historical links do both countries have?).

@Type:Yeah. Hubian is Lakeside,quite a good name. Wonder why you would want Lotus Lake,though. May I throw in Tao Hu(Peach Lake) Circuit as a suggestion?(I'm of Chinese descent,and Chinese is my mother tongue. First language is still English,though)

TypeProton
8th July 2012, 04:52 PM
IIRC,Metropia is in Kyoto. And I thought this game is pre FX-300,putting it before 2197? If so,then Metropia would not be there(yet). Construction of such circuits began/begin circa 2202.

Woops. Fixed.



@Type:Yeah. Hubian is Lakeside,quite a good name. Wonder why you would want Lotus Lake,though. May I throw in Tao Hu(Peach Lake) Circuit as a suggestion?(I'm of Chinese descent,and Chinese is my mother tongue. First language is still English,though)

Maybe because all those weird Wipeout track names. But that just me, feel free to make it better. :D

Rotational_aspect
10th July 2012, 09:21 PM
Zero: penny for your thoughts?

How perfect are you aiming SSGX to be? I ask as I've come across a quite complex problem in my game (my ships vibrate when they brake) and I'm tempted to just ignore it since I am not a pro programmer, but its kind of irritating.....

.....so really, should I really be worried about these things? I always wonder if by obsessing over small details I will kill my enjoyment of making this. What do you think?

zero3growlithe
10th July 2012, 11:18 PM
Well, I want it to be as good as I'm capable of doing :) As for your issue could you show me what is happening? Or say what are you using to stop ships, force in opposite direction or translate or direct velocity control? xd
I would have repaired this issue on your place cos then you'll probably have pangs of conscience when you'll progress further and somehing will happen that make you unable to repair this issue without great effort and it will make game less fun :P

AG-SYSTEMS
11th July 2012, 02:27 AM
I have put myself on as a whenever-you-need-it graphic designer. I'm working on the menu now.

Rotational_aspect
11th July 2012, 08:51 AM
Thanks Zero! For a while I actually changed the movement system to get round this.

The problem I had was to control drifting in turns, as my physics model uses forces rather than linear velocity. As the ships go into a turn, an opposite force is applied in the x axis to stop the ship drifting out of control. The trouble was, the counter force is large (mass * speed) and the drifting threshold in the x axis small (between 1 and 10). So when the force was applied, the ship would respond but would visibly shake (if the threshold is =< 3) or jitter (threshold > 3). Since the speeds are quite high the stopping force is proportionally high too.

I then created a 'fork' in my game by replacing force based movement with linear velocity (just like WOHD, ironically). This eliminated the problem completely since linear forces act on an individual axis (so you can disable x y or z axis movement by not simulating that axis). This approach was much cleaner movement wise, but meant I lost the ships mass values (as the speed was set directly), so when a ship dumps its weapon, it no longer gained speed. I could simulate this with maths (like I had done years ago!) but it added complexity that I just did not want when the force based version did this for free.

I even contemplated having a 'driving' object that jitters (but is invisible) and parent a visible ship mesh to this (but with an animation offset to 'cushion' the vibration)- again I rigged up simple demos and this approach was plausible too.

After many swear words I realised the solution was incredibly simple. In Blender there are several modes of movement- in the logic block motion is an advanced movement system (servo motion).

....''At the heart of the servo motion actuator there is a PID servo controller: it measures the speed error (= the difference between the target speed and the actual speed) and updates the force based on the error by applying a force that is proportional to the error (the 'P' coefficient) and proportional to the integral of the error (the 'I' coefficient). The higher the coefficients, the "harder" the speed control (= quick reaction); the lower the coefficients, the "softer" the speed control (=slow reaction, sliding effect). Additionally you can limit the force along each axis so that the accelaration (or braking) force is limited''....

I used this in the x axis (so the target speed was 0 (i.e. the ship not braking in the x axis at all), maximum braking was 1500 units (i.e. the ship drifting in the + x axis) and -1500 in the -x axis). I then made a simple velocity check (if the x axis speed > n) and when true activated the servo actuator. This works really well and is butter smooth, with no shaking at all with only two lines of code.....result!

In a way I am glad this problem cropped up....its forced me to think creatively and I've learned a great deal, not to mention teaching me to not overlook the logic blocks in Blender.

AG-SYSTEMS
11th July 2012, 03:32 PM
Test Menu.

6392

Comments?

Note: I went with worst case scenario for resolution.

Edit-Xpand informs me we already have a pretty cool menu. So this idea is spare stuff.

Oryx Crake
11th July 2012, 03:45 PM
@AG have a look at the different HUDs we have and try to make menus to fit them, I suggest, that means making at least 3 different menus but it makes the whole thing fit as it were which would be awesome. (your current one fits fairly well with Zero's HUD though which is nice)

wildmorgan
11th July 2012, 03:46 PM
I wish this topic had been around about 4 years ago, I designed an awesome Wipeout-esque track set on a black sand volcanic island. It was a abit like Arridos from the first game, made from blasted sandstone but the sandstone was black.

Anyway, good luck with this guys, love all your ideas, really interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

Xpand
12th July 2012, 10:02 PM
Overused pads anyone?
6399
6398

TypeProton
13th July 2012, 06:26 AM
@Xpand : Awww yeah.
We may need to put colored lights into it though, according to [this (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8787-How-we-should-implement-weapons-in-Slipstream-GX)]

Working of Hubian's concept art will commence tomorrow if nothing goes wrong. As for the highway track I think I didn't quite got it nailed down yet.

Xpand
13th July 2012, 01:04 PM
The cross light bars are colored. They have a reddish glow on this one, but I can make the colors more noticeable. But technically no one notices the color of the pads when they race. I just go over them and what comes up is used or absorbed. Actually HD's weapon pads are always red.
Also, anyone who has nothing to do, they can start designing visible weapon objects: Bombs, Mines, rockets.

zero3growlithe
13th July 2012, 03:25 PM
Hi! Time for some bad news: Actual version of game with completed Cassandra track is too much for my old computer I was working on previously, that means there is no way it can run on graphic card like Geforce 7600 GS, must be faster, not with more memory. As for CPU, netbook can run it with no problems on loooooooooooooooooooow graphic quality xd End :P

@Xpand: Colors must be bright and easy to distinguish cos I'm not sure if everyone will distinguish weapon pad from speed pad with this color scheme during flying at high speed xd

Xpand
13th July 2012, 03:27 PM
@Xpand: Colors must be bright and easy to distinguish cos I'm not sure if everyone will distinguish weapon pad from speed pad with this color scheme during flying at high speed xd

seriously? You can't tell a triangle from a cross? even at high speed!? xD
By the way, this is to be impletemented onto the tracks like this:

put an empty in every spot you want a speed/weapon pad to be.
Make a script for the weapon pads that reads if the event is time trial or normal race. If race is true then replace object with tag weapon pad with the weapon pad model.
Make a script for the speed pads to replace the empties with the speed pad in all cases.
Add one of those scripts to each empty depending if you want them to be speed pads or weapon pads.

F.E.I.S.A.R
13th July 2012, 05:27 PM
With regards to the Mach One speed class:
I think I'll set the top speed at 1440 km/h. With a lattitude of 200 km/h,teams should not be complaining.
Also,since sonic booms will happen if nothing is done, I suggest that the ship have a form of Turbo that can be used once Mach one(1225) has been exceeded. This will be done by having the sonic boom energy converted to a form of potential energy that will be stored for use later on in the race.
Sonic Turbo will only be awarded ONCE per race

With regards to the Singapore-Malaysia Super-circuit:
Here is a plan view on the Super-circuit meant for Mach One Speed Class races. Goes through both Singapore(the two land links) and Malaysia(Johore?) (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=355&attachmentid=6401).Track can be run in either direction.
Distance:Approx 70 km
Forward-Clockwise
Reverse-Antilockwise/Counterclockwise

With regards to Singa(the track based in Singapore):
Here is a plan view on what is the current Marina Bay area. Not sure how it will be like in 2180 and onwards,but I think that the bay area would have been expanded. Underwater area denoted by part in the sea. (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/album.php?albumid=355&attachmentid=6400) Track can be run in either direction.
Distance:Approx 12 km
Forward-Anticlockwise/Counterclockwise
Reverse-Clockwise

Amaroq Dricaldari
13th July 2012, 09:39 PM
You most likely hate being corrected, but the term is Counterclockwise, not Anticlockwise. While Anti and Counter mean the same thing in this context, they don't always mean the same thing.

Btw, sorry for not being on in a while, and also sorry for being slightly rude, but I have been having a streak of terrible days lately :(

On Topic:
I came up with a new idea for a track: A track that is mostly vertical, with large portions of it being underwater and other portions of it being above the surface of the water, far from land. Most of the track is vertical, but not all of it is.

F.E.I.S.A.R
14th July 2012, 01:28 AM
I am doing O Level Physics,and when using the Principle of Moments (about a Pivot),I use sum of anticlockwise moments=sum of clockwise moments. I feel that the message gets across,same difference.

TypeProton
14th July 2012, 04:17 AM
[Some (http://i.imgur.com/uxBgG.jpg)] Hubian [pics (http://i.imgur.com/QLHdQ.jpg)]
Now I'm starting to doubt how the track will fit the futuristic nature of the game. :/

F.E.I.S.A.R
14th July 2012, 04:30 AM
@Type:How about as part of the Chinese Government's Historical Restoration project or as part of the Chinese Government's What If Question:What if AG Racing existed before the 20th century,or even before?

Oryx Crake
14th July 2012, 05:23 AM
we can make historical stuff fit what we need is to make it not all historical, this can be done there are plenty of examples, of this from china so let's you and me have a look at it yeh? :)

TypeProton
14th July 2012, 05:42 AM
@FEISAR/Oryx : That's exactly what I'm thinking while I drew it. The problem I mentioned is not about lore but more about things "outside" of the track. Normally the garden would just be walled in but this is a circuit, a scaled up replica. Just walling it in won't do it justice. I'm thinking about what kind of sci-fi buildings that can be placed around it AND look good right now.

F.E.I.S.A.R
14th July 2012, 06:31 AM
How about have half the track in a historical landscape,the other half in a modern setting?

zero3growlithe
14th July 2012, 10:23 PM
Speed Pad script is ready, works same as in WOHD, it pushes your ship in direction the speed pad is pointing.
Weapon pad script in progress => :)

Xpand
14th July 2012, 11:48 PM
Sorry man, I completely forgot about giving you the pads...
Here:
6402

Oryx Crake
15th July 2012, 08:00 AM
proton: I'm thinking bio dome with historical garden inside and sprawling high tech outside i.e. as you say half inside the garden other half outside

AG-SYSTEMS
15th July 2012, 09:25 PM
Have I been thrown off the team? Xpand, hello?

Xpand
15th July 2012, 09:47 PM
Why are you saying that? If you were out I would have told you that. Is it because I haven't been on skype for a lot? I've been busy with other stuff...

Amaroq Dricaldari
15th July 2012, 09:49 PM
Speed Pad script is ready, works same as in WOHD, it pushes your ship in direction the speed pad is pointing.
Weapon pad script in progress => :)

I think a better idea is to just give it a funneling effect, that way it doesn't force you in a particular direction (which is annoying in Eliminator Matches and tight corners), but instead funnels your ship to guide it into the right direction (much more user friendly than just forcing it into a particular directon).

Maybe the same funneling effect could be used to replace Pilot Assist.

--- Slightly Off Topic ---
If you ever played with the Propulsion Gel in Portal 2, then you will probably notice the same funneling effect that guides you when you're speeding into a Portal.

AG-SYSTEMS
15th July 2012, 10:21 PM
Why are you saying that? If you were out I would have told you that. Is it because I haven't been on skype for a lot? I've been busy with other stuff...

That explains it. Thanks for responding.

wildmorgan
16th July 2012, 12:44 PM
You most likely hate being corrected, but the term is Counterclockwise, not Anticlockwise. While Anti and Counter mean the same thing in this context, they don't always mean the same thing.

Depends where you're from. In the UK we always say Anticlockwise so your statement isn't completely true...

F.E.I.S.A.R
16th July 2012, 02:31 PM
@wildmorgan:Yay for British English(from Singapore here)

Xpand
17th July 2012, 12:31 PM
In UDK:
Damn....
640364046405
I mean, tecnically the model looks like sh*t, but the shading effects... Wow....
By the way, that was in-game.

Also, the only track I could import so far (all the others are either incompatible or too large) Basin Park, by Oryx.
6406

zero3growlithe
17th July 2012, 02:37 PM
Yeah, even normal scene with simple cube looks awesome, it is just unreal :P
btw. Weapon Pad script ready :P Script for speed and weapon pads is single and you can change between them using variable... maybe it will be of some use in-game xd Awaiting weapons list, must be it-is-ok-for-sure weapon list cos every weapon will require some serious programming (ok, maybe except for cannon, rockets, bomb, etc. xd)

Amaroq Dricaldari
17th July 2012, 10:05 PM
In UDK:
Damn....
640364046405
I mean, tecnically the model looks like sh*t, but the shading effects... Wow....
By the way, that was in-game.

Also, the only track I could import so far (all the others are either incompatible or too large) Basin Park, by Oryx.
6406

The model itself is fine. You could do with some Normal Mapping (look up Bump Maps on Wikipedia, and they should mention it) though.
Also, I love how the Unreal Engine has built-in HDR. HDR makes everything better.

Oryx Crake
17th July 2012, 10:33 PM
got an idea for a track... though it might be a bit ambitious it would be a track in low earth orbit attached to a space station, call it orbit terminal or something for travel too and from the moon etc. with a track attached to it.

Amaroq Dricaldari
17th July 2012, 11:09 PM
Howabout Terra-Lunar Transit Array? It isn't the best, but it was at the top of my head.

Oryx Crake
17th July 2012, 11:25 PM
hehe any name would do tbh it was just a thought if anyone finds it an interesting idea feel free to develop it.

Xpand
18th July 2012, 12:10 AM
I dunno about that. I was never a great fan of orbital/extraterrestrial racing environments.... Meh...
Well, here's some new details on DC:
6407
This made me chuckle when I saw the render...

Amaroq Dricaldari
18th July 2012, 08:09 AM
Alright, found some good Wikipedia articles.

Bump Mapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_Map)
Normal Mapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping)
Phong Shading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading)

Hopefully you can use this information to improve your model. Good job, btw 8)
P.S.: You could also add some Bump Mapping to your track. Get that extra bit of detail.

Xpand
18th July 2012, 09:48 AM
Yep, I know I can add it. I usually leave that to last, but end up making it. When I make planes for FSX I always add the bump map (http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2557/r101dirt.jpg)... Normal map is out of question, since it increases the polycount a lot, that's more for artistic/rendering models

Amaroq Dricaldari
18th July 2012, 10:40 AM
I have never seen a Normal Map increase the Polycount. I have seen it change the way a low-polygon mesh reacts with light, though. That is how bump mapping works.

Xpand
18th July 2012, 12:33 PM
Yeah, I confused it with displacement map. It's like those terrain generators where they use a marble like grey scale texture and then assign a max and minimal height for pure white and pure black, respectively and then the mesh's vertices gain the height correspondent to that part of the texture map. It's one way to generate procedural terrain.

Amaroq Dricaldari
18th July 2012, 12:51 PM
Yeah, a Displacement Map is the kind of thing that you would use with Tessellation.

Speaking of which, turns out Normal Maps are the most commonly used form of Bump Mapping.

docfo4r
18th July 2012, 09:13 PM
Hey guys, finally I am back from school and trip and have lots of free days ahead. So I hopefully can help you guys out as much as I can.

First of all, I got another idea for a track: An abandoned science research facility half-way underground so you race through a big complex of underground tunnels/rooms/test facilities and also over the ground where you see big broken/rusty satellite dishes, left buildings & warehouses, antennas etc. it could be either placed in a forest or jungle-alike ambience or in the desert, which emphasizes the feeling of "lonelyness" [kinda like Black Mesa in HL1]. The underground ambience could look like THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QHGexH9dP8) [watch from 00.50].
Another idea is a track in a big canyon. The track itself is always deep in the canyon so the player can't overlook the complete map. But since there are cliffs etc. it could be used well for jumps and barrel rolls and the canyon would have multiple ways so there are a few alternating routes.
Tell me if you guys like one of those ideas, then I will come up with name, backstory and sketches within the next days.

zero asked for weapons to script one page back. Sorry I could not keep track until today, but do we have a weapon list now? Or should we collect all ideas about weapons that got written down here to make a full list and pick the best and realistic-for-coding ones together?

Xpand, you said Cassandra is ready? Will you also attach the speed & weapon pads to it, soon? And how about the Zone-mode design, or is the Zone-mode not set to stone yet?

Anyway, keep up the good work everyone! Cheers

Xpand
18th July 2012, 09:21 PM
the speed pads are to be added in the game engine. They are separate models so that they appear or disappear weather you want time trial or race events... There's no Zone mode yet. And if you want those psy designs and colors we need to get HDR shading systems because I'm sure as hell the tracks will look like crap unless we have glow filters...

Xpand
19th July 2012, 09:59 AM
Sorry for the double post but I just had an idea for a system to count perfect laps:

zero, your collision spark system works with an "if" with a raycast collision argument, right?
Well, what if we make that condition add +1 to an integer, like:



var col_count=0;

if(collision is true){

col_count=col_count+1;

// I gotta think how to Reset col_count to 0 after a lap.
}

//check col_count after each lap and give the perfect lap message if col_count=0
if(col_count==0){

display(Perfect Lap)

}


Of course this is in pseudo-code... I think it's easier when you have the variables and specific commands for Unity...

zero3growlithe
19th July 2012, 11:30 AM
Nope, I'm not using raycast but collision box attached to the ship :P And I can use trigger which is at start line to restart collision counter ;)

Xpand
19th July 2012, 04:40 PM
Yeah, but you can detect collisions with collision box, right? Like what activates the sparks?

Anyways:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuCAYJ6n6-U

zero3growlithe
19th July 2012, 11:59 PM
Erm... yeah? Ok, maybe just leave programming stuff to me and just tell me what to do or what i've missed and it will be cool :P So.... weapons anyone? x.X Or no, I'll take care of main menu script cos it is written like some kind of poetry than code xD

Xpand
20th July 2012, 12:12 AM
Uhh, that reminds me... I have to remodel your hangar with new textures.

Amaroq Dricaldari
20th July 2012, 05:32 AM
You know what would be nice? The addition of a minimap to the HUD. Every other racing game has one, why not WipEout?

P.S.: The return of Opposite Braking would also be a big help.

TypeProton
20th July 2012, 07:10 AM
You know what would be nice? The addition of a minimap to the HUD. Every other racing game has one, why not WipEout?

That's a big no. You'd be too busy managing airbrakes at high speed to look at minimap. It's too fast.

Amaroq Dricaldari
20th July 2012, 07:28 AM
First of all, make it optional.

Besides, for newer pilots or unfamiliar tracks, they still need a basic idea of the layout at a glance. Plus, it isn't like they would be staring at it throughout the race.

Whenever I play a racing game, I usually don't pay attention to the minimap, but I do glance at it before the race starts and I also notice when it isn't there.

Rotational_aspect
20th July 2012, 12:49 PM
Its an interesting idea, but not one that fits a WO style game: how can the feature enhance the project?

WO tracks are generally too simple to justify a map- perhaps on a rally game but here its really wasted. You could argue it shows you where your opponents are, however, you can do this via times on a leaderboard (as in online matches) and split times. The Wipeout ethos was always keeping the experience as streamlined and functional as possible and for me your idea goes against this.

Oryx Crake
20th July 2012, 01:18 PM
I like that you're enthusiastic amaroq but opposite braking the way it has traditionally been programmed meant that you could get flash time lap records on venom and rapier time lap records on flash. it was an unfortunate error which was exploited to cheat onto the top of the leaderboards still gives me a bitter after taste... it is to a certain extent a game braking glitch which I would really not like to see make a return.

wildmorgan
20th July 2012, 09:41 PM
'the hell's opposite braking???

Xpand
20th July 2012, 09:51 PM
I never heard it by that name, but I'm pretty sure it's a physics issue in the early wipeout instalments in which you flew the ship much like a rally car, "opposite locking". You turned left and then shifted to the right using only the airbrakes. I think that's what they're talking about.

I started to remodel the Hangar for the menu. Too bad I can't use the skylight to render this properly because the hangar goes all dark from shadows caused by the ceiling... So I had to go with a light-less render.
6412

Amaroq Dricaldari
21st July 2012, 02:50 AM
...a game braking glitch... I see what you did there! :p You wrote 'braking' instead of 'breaking' because we were talking about airbrakes.

To be honest, I never knew that about Opposite Braking, just that it caused your craft to drift to the side when turning.

But now that you mention it...

@xpand What are those floating things in the background?

F.E.I.S.A.R
21st July 2012, 07:00 AM
@Amaroq:To be frank,applying the airbrakes while turning ALWAYS causes you to drift,the only difference is that the degree of drifting varies among the games.
In the older games, opposite braking was of use when you wanted to shift sideways to get the best racing line(especially in the first two or three games). This has been replaced by sideshift from Pure onwards.

As for mini-map: Part of WipEout has been memorising the tracks. Either that or improvising.

Amaroq Dricaldari
21st July 2012, 08:25 AM
Anyway, another reason I want Opposite Braking to be returned is not on my behalf, but for those who have played the older WipEout games and feel that it is easier for whatever reason. For example, familiarity with an old method might cause problems with a new method of doing things.

As for that 'glitch' that allows for faster laptimes, what exactly causes it? The physics system?

F.E.I.S.A.R
21st July 2012, 09:34 AM
This is a fan game. How sure are you that veteran pilots will play this?

Amaroq Dricaldari
21st July 2012, 10:52 AM
I'm not. But you still have to prepare for the unexpected. The same applies to all forms of development.

F.E.I.S.A.R
21st July 2012, 11:50 AM
Ridge Racer 64 had the option to switch between the handling models of the Original Ridge Racer,Ridge Racer Revolution and Ridge Racer 64. I wonder if this physics switching can be done so that everyone is pleased.

docfo4r
21st July 2012, 12:03 PM
I think that is a bad idea. You also can't switch physics in Wipeout. Get used to the handling like everyone else ;)
Also, there would be complications in the multiplayer mode if everyone is racing in different physics setup.

Xpand
21st July 2012, 12:25 PM
6430
Phew.... I'm thinking of having a normal window sized menu, but as you select the options, the camera moves around the hangar.

Amaroq Dricaldari
21st July 2012, 02:32 PM
Ridge Racer 64 had the option to switch between the handling models of the Original Ridge Racer,Ridge Racer Revolution and Ridge Racer 64. I wonder if this physics switching can be done so that everyone is pleased.

I wish WipEout 2048 and WipEout HD let you do that.
The physics in 2048 suck.

F.E.I.S.A.R
21st July 2012, 05:18 PM
I think that is a bad idea. You also can't switch physics in Wipeout. Get used to the handling like everyone else ;)
Also, there would be complications in the multiplayer mode if everyone is racing in different physics setup.
Workaround:Host sets the physics settings. Then again,that may be hard to implement.


I wish WipEout 2048 and WipEout HD let you do that.
The physics in 2048 suck.
Physics suck...to what?

Oryx Crake
21st July 2012, 05:56 PM
the opposite braking glitch in HD made you go faster than your normal top speed by turning in one direction and braking in the opposite direction, which you could do anywhere on straights or in corners didn't matter something in the physics engine made it so that instead of braking you'd go faster when you did this... don't know exactly what piece of code caused it but there was a big fight over it a couple of years back, when someone set a wr or 2 using this method. if we can somehow avoid this and still have the opposite braking effect you want in the game I'm all for it but yeah seems there was something built into the way it was programmed in wohd.

docfo4r
21st July 2012, 09:03 PM
Workaround:Host sets the physics settings. Then again,that may be hard to implement.

And also imagine you raced the whole campaign on Physics A and got used to it. But then you wanna join a race but the host only uses Physics B. You loose every race because you're not used to this kind of physics. Nah really, too much confusion. I'd go with one physic system for the whole game. Like I said, Wipeout, Flatout, Destruction Derby... almost all classic games only have one physics system and the people who liked the game got used to it.

Xpand
22nd July 2012, 12:05 AM
No multiple physics systems. Way too confusing and an unnecessary large amount of programming work. This is one of those cases where you simply can't satisfy every single player. Don't like it? You're free to move on...

docfo4r
22nd July 2012, 02:59 AM
Xpand nailed it. You can't satisfy everyone...

@zero: I surfed back some sides in the thread and collected the latest ideas we had about weapons as you demanded a list. Of course, this is far too much so we should think about smalling down the list to codeable and interesting/useful weapons. But also, IMHO, we shouldn't just pick the "basic" weapons we know from Wipeout & co but also have one or two new weapons to make SSGX a bit more unique.

ASSAULT
Tractor beam => Shoot an avoidable laser which creates small damage.
Rockets => Shoot 3 rockets at once or each one separately. Impossible to pick up something new unless all 3 rockets are shot.
Missile => Shoot a homing rocket [if no enemy is available for target, weapon can't be shot or will become a ricochet].
Blades => Shoots two laser-lines in V-shape which ricochet from the wall until self-destruction or hitting an enemy.
Impulse => Force field which deals no damage but pushes enemies in the surrounding area away [maybe knock them against the wall or let them fall off the track in certain situations].
Canon => Normal 30 bullets canon or shoot two rotating discs which release bullets in all directions [self-hitting possible!].
Satellite => Locks on every ship infront of the player & shoots a laser at each target found [though I think "Satellite" sounds too friendly for a weapon :P].
Plasmabolt => The well-known plasma ball from Wipeout.
EMP => Releases an electromagnetic field which turnes off electricity of enemy ships close to the player for a certain time.

DEFENSIVE
Mines => Places 5 mines onto the track.
Bomb => Places a bomb onto the track.
Magnets => Drops 1 or 3 magnets which attach to following ships and slowing them down for a certain amount of time.

SELF-USE
Shield => Protects the player from all weapons as well as enemy- and wall-contacts damage for some seconds.
Boost => Used like a Turbo [high push of speed].
Autopilot => Activates the autopilot for some seconds.
Invincibler => Player can't be found by homing weapons for some seconds.
Afterburner => More speed for a few seconds.
Phantomizer => Creates a hologram of the players ship for some seconds on the track where homing systems aim for, players real ship will become invincible in the meantime.
Gravitron => Creates a portable mag-lock effect underneath the players ship so he is able to fly corners with surface irregularities at high speed.
Blackmatter => Stronger anti-gravity effect module so the ship becomes lighter [though I don't know if that would be useful^^].


That's all I found so far. If there are other cool ideas, type them down!

Amaroq Dricaldari
22nd July 2012, 04:22 AM
Physics suck...to what?

Suck as in Terrible. The physics in 2048 are terrible.

@doctor I like your list. I still think that the 'Black Matter' should be called something else though. Read back in some of the eaerlier pages in the thread (I think it was around 80) and I explain why (it might have been later, like 90 or something).

docfo4r
22nd July 2012, 05:31 AM
Thank you.
Oh, yeah sure. Well of course we will discuss the name, symbol, effect, damage etc. of the weapons but for now I wanted to hand out the list to zero and for us all to make a decision which and how many weapons should be used for SSGX.

vincoof
22nd July 2012, 02:01 PM
That's an impressive compilation of "weapons" you have there.

Shields

To make the game looking like WipEout, I'd like to quote Nick Burcombe about weapons (http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1246568/wipeout_the_making_of_sonys_antigrav_racer.html) :

All the weapons had one simple function – ‘Slow the Opponents down’. Some weapons slow people down behind you (mines), some slowed opponents ahead of you, while the Turbo Boost basically equates to slowing everyone down at the same time.

In my humble opinion this was one of the simplest yet one on the most important concepts of making fun weapons in WipEout. The only "weapon" that doesn't "slow the opponents down" is the shield. While you may like picking a shield sometimes (e.g. your ship is low on energy and far from the pit, you want secure your first place in the last straight line, ...), most of the time picking a shield is the most boring weapon.

I'm not telling to remove shields because of course they have always been part of WipEout, because they can be useful (see above) and because picking sometimes a "boring" weapon helps elevating the feeling of picking a "fun" weapon (yay, I got the Quake !). That's the common philosophy of good vs evil where good only exists because there is an "evil" reference. However I think having too much weapons that don't "slow the opponents down" is not fun. And, most importantly, it's not very WipEout-like.

For this reason I think the "Shield", "Invincibler", and "Phantomizer" - which are redundant (basically Phantomizer is Shield + Invincibler) - should not be all there. I think at least one of these three should be dropped, or some effects should be adjusted to be a bit more active ("active" as in active vs passive).

Also Darkmatter suffers from "not slowing the opponents down". While Darkmater might reveal useful in rare cases, I fear the weapon will mostly be either a LOL weapon or a cheating weapon. (and nobody here likes cheaters, are we ?)

Assault

I'd like to comment some Assault weapons, more friendly this time.


Satellite => Locks on every ship infront of the player & shoots a laser at each target found [though I think "Satellite" sounds too friendly for a weapon :P].
I think you might call it "Quake" ? x)
Moreover Satellite suffers from the impossibility of hitting indoor targets. Well, maybe this effect is intended, though (but your description didn't seem to).

EMP => Releases an electromagnetic field which turnes off electricity of enemy ships close to the player for a certain time.
I can clearly see how awesome the EMP effect can look like on screen. But, gameplay speaking, how do you explain that your ship is not affected by the EMP since, if I understand the effect correctly, you ship is holding the EMP and holding it for a certain time ? (btw EMP should be a single "pulse" and not for a long time but that's a naming problem more than a gameplay problem)

docfo4r
22nd July 2012, 03:35 PM
Good points, vincoof.

As for the shield, I kinda agree with you. The "shield" is so overused, actually you can find it in every combat race. Question: Is it a good idea to create a game without a classic shield? Maybe, yes, if we combine Phantomizer & Invincibler or overthink their idea, we could create something else and more interesting than just a shield. I still like the idea to have a hologram, or a bait activated on the track when picking up the gimmick which replaced the shield. How are the other people here thinking about this?

About Satellite, yeah. Didn't think of the indoor-thing. In case it really has something to do with satellites. As far as I remember zero or Oryx had the idea for that weapon, maybe they can explain how it works exactly.

And for the EMP. It's rather simple, you are sending some kind if "shockwave" from your ship forward or to all directions. Since that shockwave is travelling away from you ship, your own ship is not affected to the EMP. Or, when firing an EMP, it takes about 1 seconds until the actual EMP goes off [like Plasma Ball takes some time to finally get shot in Wipeout] and in the meantime some kind of energy field is building up around your ship blocking the EMP effect for your ship. Could be an awesome graphic effect but I guess also lot's of coding.
As for the EMP effect... Here is where I got the idea from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eJ3N7BuRUU
An EMP goes off at 02.55

TypeProton
22nd July 2012, 05:53 PM
Okay, gotta admit I'm lazy lately. Not to mention I'd have to do my college's work when I actually got in the mood...
Here's what I've sketched while I'm drawing the real ones. Apologies for low quality and unrelated doodads : [an Imgur album (http://imgur.com/a/9VQcr)]

Can't talk much about Docfo4r's weapon list. I'm not sure if it's fun to play. But here's mine :
Aggressive :
Cannon - 30 round autocannon
Rocket - 3 shot rocket, just like WOpulse.
Wall - A WOHD-Fury Zone Barrier that fires like WO3 force wall.
Missile - Doh.
Quake - Basically same thing as in WO.
Plasma - Wipeout's ball of wrecking...
Repulse - Damaging blast that push opponents around user away in short radius.

Passive :
Mines
Shield
Leech - WOHD Leech beam.
Cloak - Hide AG craft from visuals and any lock-on weapon targeting.
Turbo
Bomb
Counter - Put a single-use limited-duration special field around user. Any non-lockon weapon will be reflected back at an angle. Lock-on weapons will be redirected back at user. When Leech'ed it will immediately break the link and zap some damage off the Leech user. If hit by Quake it'll protect the user and fire off a single Repulse.

All of these has to be arranged, according to highest vote in [this (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8787-How-we-should-implement-weapons-in-Slipstream-GX)] thread, so each weapon can be countered by another pick-ups that are close together in terms on draw order assuming player doesn't keep/absorb their pick-ups.

zero3growlithe
22nd July 2012, 07:57 PM
@docfo4r: I think I'll change this "Satelite" weapon into "Ion Cannon". Description: When used user gets an temporary shield which will defend him from super destructive Ion Cannon which shoots great amount of energy onto surface (in ex. earth) which damages everything that gets into its field of destruction... something like nuke :g

Now, I would like to know what kind of physics would you like in game, generally I'm asking about ship jumping ability, should ship fly really close to track surface with not much of possibility to jump on flat surfaces or should it be able to make barrel rolls only on bigger jumps? Sorry I'm asking so late... xd

wildmorgan
22nd July 2012, 08:28 PM
Here's a weapon/power-up I have always wanted to see in a Wipeout game:

Teleport

You could have it fire out in front of you, much like the force wall did in WO3 and it opens up an Einstein-Rosen bridge. You fly into the portal and you arrive instantly a couple of hundred meters down the track. You would have to be careful though as it is only stable enough to allow one ship through, so you would have to use when no opponents are immediately in front of you, else they might fly through the portal ahead of you and steal your advantage.

docfo4r
22nd July 2012, 08:38 PM
Hmmm I'd say maybe a little lower than Wipeout HD is. The free room between track and ground of the ship should be clearly visible [for example in "Voltage" it's hard to make out your ship is actually flying].

@wildmorgan kinda cool idea aswell. Definately something new. But when it comes to portal/beaming etc. we should make sure it won't be too much confusing and also not too much of an advantage aswell. But I don't know, this weapon could be well hated by others.

Another idea which might be hated is a time-based weapon. Like for example when activating it, the whole game slows down [of course the lap counter aswell] and your controls are more precisely, or just the enemies become slower for a moment. But I can imagine that it could be annoying easily if the enemy is using that pickup too often...

AG-SYSTEMS
23rd July 2012, 02:08 AM
Can we stop with the super weapons like the Ion cannons, all ship-affecting weapons etc...

It ruins the spirit of the race and offsets the level playing field.

And please, no cloaks. Once again, it's too powerful.

Although I love the idea of walls. A object that stops a ship without damaging it...

Edit-I've changed my mind on teleports. See later posts.

Oryx Crake
23rd July 2012, 05:33 AM
I'm kind of in favor of many weaker weapons rather than few really devastating ones. I actually kinda like the Ion cannon in fusion, very little damage long bursts and if you aim it correctly into an engine muzzle it jerks your ship sideways, or off course perhaps.

So yeah I'm all for ammunition based point and click type weapons. Say, cannon, ion cannon(the way it works in fusion), rockets, bigger yield cannon but with less shots... etc. stuff that does require more skill to hit a shot with than a missile or a quake.

zero3growlithe
23rd July 2012, 08:23 AM
Hmmmm, how about weapons that has properties like: Fire Rate, Strenght, Push Force, Engine Stop Ability, AG Stop Ability, Range, Accuracy, Sniper Mode... like in some kind of FPS game? Proton gun, 20mm cannon, Laser, Minigun, Swarm Rockets (game would be more fun in Arena Mode mentioned many pages back) :P Don't worry about programming stuff, if there will be something that is impossible to write (although there is nothing that is not possible) then I'll just suggest something simpler or changed a bit...

Amaroq Dricaldari
23rd July 2012, 09:08 AM
I came up with a new idea for a team. It isn't likely going to make the cut, but why not? None of my ideas are going to get anywhere if I keep them locked up in my head.

Name: Ti-Khana
Origin: Israel
Date Founded: About a month prior the start of the F9000
Logo: A stylized silhouette of a raptor, but with a snake's head
Livery: Sage green with pale, sand-colored highlights
Craft Performance: Well balanced attributes, performing equally well in all areas.
Craft Asthetics: Looks like a cross between a Viper from the new BSG, and a Rifter from EVE (it has two engines mounted in the front, each with a grill in front of it). I will try to find some pictures of both of the ships mentioned above for the modellers to use as a reference. I will also try to make a drawing.
Lead Pilot: [LAST NAME, FIRST NAME]
Second Pilot: [LAST NAME, FIRST NAME]

Backstory: They were originally planning to compete in the F9000 league, but when they signed up they were asked to demonstrate their craft. The craft the presented wasn't actually their own design, but rather a craft that was found while a small archaeology team was excavating some ruins. It performed remarkably well, but due to the literally ancient nature of the craft, it broke down in the middle of a race, and they were unable to compete in the F9000.

Several years later, at the start of the FX 150, they reverse-engineered the design and refined it, then built a new craft for another shot at AG Racing. Even though the FX 150 is an amature league, they are still proud to be competing.

I hope you guys like the idea. I am not sure it will go very well, though. I have bad luck with this kind of thing. Still trying to come up with names for the two pilots, so speak up if you have any suggestions.

docfo4r
23rd July 2012, 09:48 AM
@Oryx
Hmmm but I think having almost only bullet-based weapons could become boring, because I imagine the players become divided in two groups: One group with lots of skills because they are used to have this kind of weapon in combat races and the other group with no skills hitting maybe only one time with a pack of 30 bullets. So the latter group would always fire blindly and cross their fingers to hit something.

A quake could also be tactical: Imagine you start from position 8, you managed to get yourself into position 2 after 3 laps out of 4 because the AI is set on difficult. But somehow, the leader managed to get too far away from you so it's almost impossible to catch up only with racing. A quake would be the only weapon which would slow down the leader for a while. And still, the quake also isn't a global weapon.
But of course, we should have maybe only 1 or no global weapon and just a few weapons with a large area of activity, or the game becomes frustrating if you get hit by something four times in a lap even the enemies are not close to you.

wildmorgan
23rd July 2012, 09:52 AM
Can we stop with the super weapons like the Ion cannons, all ship-affecting weapons etc...

It ruins the spirit of the race and offsets the level playing field. Especially teleportation weapons...

If it ain't broke don't fix it right? That's exactly the kind of attitude that causes a series to go stale. I'm astoundingly bored with the weapons in Wipeout, there's nothing really new in there since 2097. Only Fusion really attempted to add new and innovating ideas to the roster.

I agree that there should be only ONE "super, all ship affecting" weapon (the Quake - don't like the idea of Ion Cannons myself), but a teleport is hardly a super weapon and definitely fits in with the sci-fi theme of the Wipeout series. It wouldn't give a player too much of an advantage, it would just give the back runners a bit of a chance - it's not like they'd teleport right ot the front of the pack is it? That would be ridiculous. And like the quake, you could make it a rare pick up.

That's my opinion anyway...

zero3growlithe
23rd July 2012, 10:15 AM
But you must also keep in mind which Weapon Draw System we'll be using, cos that will affect final weapon list too... the one I've invented prevents contenders to get ultimate weapon too fast.

F.E.I.S.A.R
23rd July 2012, 12:43 PM
Another idea which might be hated is a time-based weapon. Like for example when activating it, the whole game slows down [of course the lap counter aswell] and your controls are more precise, or just the enemies become slower for a moment. But I can imagine that it could be annoying easily if the enemy is using that pickup too often...

Fatal Inertia had the ultra-rare 'Time Dialator' pickup. Guess what it did. Here is a hint:It caused the lead to be overtaken...by the last positioned racer.

As for Mach One and Airbraker:Anyone mind if the F7200 Drag Prototype(apppeared in WipEout 3:SE in the high speed oval tracks) be used as inspiration? I was playing a prototype race and using only the airbrakes for handling. It seems...potent enough.

docfo4r
23rd July 2012, 01:48 PM
The "Time Dilator" was kinda a nice effect. Also since it only lasts for about 3-4 seconds [race time] it's impossible to overtake the leader if in last position except the whole field is not 3 meters or more ahead of you. More "fatal" was that one weapon in Voltage. When picked up and used, you activate an autopilot which is about 20 times faster than normal speed and pushes you far ahead of the leader. In THAT case, the race was over for everyone else, most stupid pickup I ever saw. But still, these kind of weapons might be annoying easily anyway...

I think it's ok whatever you use for inspiration. Many of my weapon ideas come together from different combat races and are reconsidered. Just make sure to not just make a 100% copy ;)

AG-SYSTEMS
23rd July 2012, 02:50 PM
If it ain't broke don't fix it right? That's exactly the kind of attitude that causes a series to go stale. I'm astoundingly bored with the weapons in Wipeout, there's nothing really new in there since 2097. Only Fusion really attempted to add new and innovating ideas to the roster.

I agree that there should be only ONE "super, all ship affecting" weapon (the Quake - don't like the idea of Ion Cannons myself), but a teleport is hardly a super weapon and definitely fits in with the sci-fi theme of the Wipeout series. It wouldn't give a player too much of an advantage, it would just give the back runners a bit of a chance - it's not like they'd teleport right ot the front of the pack is it? That would be ridiculous. And like the quake, you could make it a rare pick up.

That's my opinion anyway...

The way that the teleport was impiled, that it would be a kill all. I'm all in favor of a limited teleport. Like 1-2 postions ahead. And it could be broken by weapons fire kinda like the leach beam.

Now that would be fun to use. :D And please make it rare on the random number generator.

vincoof
23rd July 2012, 03:47 PM
Having one super weapon (like Quake) is fine as long as the pickup rate is low and as long as you don't feel committed to use that weapon to win a race. When the Quake first appeared in WipEout 2097, it was a very powerful weapon visually speaking but gameplay speaking it was sometimes less powerful than the Turbo weapon (which has never been questioned). The only issue about Quake was its high damage : with good configuration (i.e. lots of ships close to you in front of you), having two Quakes in a row often ended in a multikill, and hearing the computer saying "con-con-contender eliminated-ted-ted" was so hilarious. But this configuration was rare and picking two Quakes was even more rare so this was a fun bonus and not really a gamebreaking design.

To my mind, weapons like Plasma Bolt are much more game-breaking as it leaves the target almost no option but dying. Instakill attacks (or almost-insta) are not fun in games where death ends the match, such as in WipEout.

docfo4r
23rd July 2012, 04:02 PM
The way that the teleport was impiled, that it would be a kill all. I'm all in favor of a limited teleport. Like 1-2 postions ahead. And it could be broken by weapons fire kinda like the leach beam.

Now that would be fun to use. :D And please make it rare on the random number generator.

Totally agree here! Would be awesome if the portal could be broken by other weapons. Imagine that fun-anger moment in multiplayer when you got yourself a portal shot and a buddy broke it with a canon from behind just in the moment you almost made it trough :D

wildmorgan
23rd July 2012, 04:03 PM
I agree to a point, although the plasma bolt is stupidly hard to time and even aim. It's only really effective if you are right behind someone, or if you get a lucky shot in.

It was toned down somewhat in Pulse, I agree that it shouldn't really be an instakill. Maybe in Eliminator mode, but not during races.

F.E.I.S.A.R
23rd July 2012, 04:34 PM
The Plasma Bolt was VERY effective in the F7200 League

Xpand
23rd July 2012, 06:21 PM
I don't recall having to aim it as much as today's PB...

"Crap, didn't notice FEISAR's post what just above mine..."

Amaroq Dricaldari
23rd July 2012, 07:12 PM
*snip*

zero3growlithe
23rd July 2012, 10:58 PM
Homing missiles created for fun (auto targetting to nearest enemy) and main menu script rewritting in progress for easier future changes. Ship physics finally please me... i mean it is good but could be better as always :P

wildmorgan
24th July 2012, 09:08 AM
I don't recall having to aim it as much as today's PB...

Exactly, this is the reason why I don't think it should be considered a "cheap" weapon as vincoof implied earlier... It's powerful, but hard to get a shot on target.

docfo4r
24th July 2012, 09:48 AM
Good work, zero!
So, should we now concentrate on which weapons to be in SSGX eventually so you programmer-guys can continue working on those weapons [because I think it takes a long time to create every weapon: Programming, pickup symbol, describtion, damage level, visual effects, sound-fx...].
Should we create a new thread and make a poll for each pickup or can we find a solution over here? What do you guys think ;)

Amaroq Dricaldari
24th July 2012, 09:59 AM
Erm... Amaroq, aren't you exaggerating a little with your way of speaking? Calling someone a dog is not really nice...
Back on topic: Homing missiles created for fun (auto targetting to nearest enemy) and main menu script rewritting in progress for easier future changes. Ship physics finally please me... i mean it is good but could be better as always :P

It was suppossed to be meant as a joke.

Oh, did anyone see my idea for a team? I know it is a little too late to add teams, but still, the idea has some potential.

Oryx Crake
24th July 2012, 03:21 PM
@doc: yeah I wouldn't suggest that all weapons be gun type weapons, that would make for imbalance just as much as auto aim ones just as you say, I just meant that those are the weapons I like the most , and that I think that if we have a big array of different weapons then more of them should be unguided than auto aim.

on the subject of the teleport it would be interesting to see that as sort of a portal gun from the game portal (cept without the double shot) say for example you're coming up to a hill you shoot a portal onto the track and can go through the hill fora short time, but you have to aim your ship right through the portal or something... an assisted short cut as it were, but again if anyone shoots your portal it's gone.

Xpand
24th July 2012, 03:52 PM
Lol, getting a bit F9000-ish here! :D
Remember that this is the Amateur league we're talking about. Technologically advanced weapons are very expensive...
Also I'm a bit low on modeling inspiration... :| Lets see if this improves...

docfo4r
24th July 2012, 04:03 PM
Yeah, I think that portal gun thing is an awesome idea. Anyway, I felt free enough to create a list of weapons on my own. Not a list of all ideas we had but a list of all weapons where I think they should be in SSGX, not more not less. For describtion of each weapon check this post (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?7584-Let-s-make-a-Wipeout-game!-This-time-for-real!&p=218100#post218100)!

ASSAULT: Tractorbeam, Rockets, Missile, Impulse, Canon, EMP
DEFENSIVE: Mines, Magnets
SELF-USE: Turbo, Gravitron, Teleporter, Phantomizer

Makes 12 in total. I think more pickups would be too much confusing. No shield there because the Phantomizer kinda does that job.
@Xpand: Yeah, but why not having one or two technical highlights in our weapon system to add up to the "WOW"-effect.

F.E.I.S.A.R
24th July 2012, 04:54 PM
Does the Phantomiser protect the user from damage sustained when colliding with walls? Shield basically renders the user invulnerable for a brief period.

Also,for the Mach One speed class:Sonic Turbo as a holdable weapon that is not affected regardless of weapons from weapon pads,or should the pilot be unable to pick up other weapons when the Sonic Turbo is loaded?

docfo4r
24th July 2012, 05:07 PM
Nope, Phantomizer protects you from ship collisions and weapons. Everything AI-based. You need to care for your raceline by yourself ;)
Thats why I said it kinda does that job.

BrunoDG
25th July 2012, 01:50 AM
I liked the Portal Gun idea, but I was thinking about using it like some sort of mine:
- You're running and drop the first bomb, that'll be the spawning spot;
- Then, some miles ahead, you drop the second bomb;
- By the time someone passes through the second bomb, that ship would be respawn into the first spot automatically
But that weapon would be available only for the Phantom / Mach-One leagues and it's name would be "Warp Mine" (please, feel free to change. This name is REALLY cheesy =P).

Another concept I was thinking about was the "Tractor Trap". This weapon would be something like:
- You're running, then drop the mine.
- A pure, innocent driver passes through the mine.
- Instead of exploding, this mine would drag the ship for the core of a "vortex" , which would last for 2 or 3 seconds.
Sure it would be an annoying trap! Just for making things get complicated! :D
By the way, the "Tractor Trap" would be available for all leagues, from Rapier to Mach-One, since it would be sorta cheap to make.

What do you think?

Oh, and sorry for disapearing for long periods of time, work is taking all my social life >.<

vincoof
25th July 2012, 03:50 AM
Exactly, this is the reason why I don't think it should be considered a "cheap" weapon as vincoof implied earlier... It's powerful, but hard to get a shot on target.
Aiming difficulty is the baseline of instakill-like weapons, be it an headshot with a sniper gun in a First Person Shooter or be it a close and precise Plasma Bolt in WipEout. Instakill with 100% success would be a poor design in any game. However, from a personal point of view, even a 1% chance or 0.1% chance of instakill should not exist. In fact, the lower the chance, the worst you feel when you get killed ("aw sh*t this guy had a chance out of a million and he got me"). And this is not fun either for the shooter who fails his kill at more than 99% rate.

I think we all agree that damage dealt should be roughly proportional to the difficulty of hitting the target (or targets). But in my humble opinion there shouldn't be extreme cases. I think a 1% chance hitting weapon that removes 99% of a ship "health points" is not fun. Neither would be a 99% chance weapon which deals 1% damage (which fortunately is not in the lists I've seen). All weapons should have a decent chance of hitting and a decent amount of damage, it will be both rewarding for the shooter while not being frustrating for the target. With that said, I'm not telling to make all weapons identical : there should be weapons a bit more powerful than others otherwise the weapon system would be boring as hell.

docfo4r
25th July 2012, 09:37 AM
Totally agree with you vincoof. A 99% damage weapon almost feels like a cheat... sv_killtarget or something :P Can't see the fun in that one.

@BrunoDG Not to be rude about your ideas, maybe I got them wrong. But when I imagine, you lay down two bombs, say you lay the first one at the finish line, than race almost a whole lap and place the second one, does it mean that whoever travelles in that portal get's pushed back for almost a whole lap? I think it's best to build in a limit of distance between those bombs and a travel-meter running down in your HUD after placing the first bomb. Also I wouldn't call them bombs then, but portals. However, I still think that's confusing and I like the idea of using the portal for yourself in the first place.
So the tractor trap kinda freezes the motion of an enemy ship passed over it for a while? Now that would be one powerful weapon, if we really use it we have to make sure that the effect lasts maybe for 1 second only, 2 at maximum. But I like this idea more than the first one since we might use that "portal gun" already.

I created a list of damage dealt to the AI as well as a describtion & absorbation rate [even I don't know if we integrate absorbation ability].

TRACTORBEAM +++ Damage for a brief hit: 3% +++ Time lasting: 3 seconds +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ So most damage would be 18% [two "hits" in one second possible], a laserline which aims the direction of the ships nose.
ROCKETS +++ Damage for one rocket: 10% +++ Shoots 3 rockets at once +++ Absorbation: +12% shield +++ Like the rockets in Wipeout. Maybe, to change it up a little bit: Just two rockets left & right get fired so aiming will be advanced aswell.
MISSILE +++ Damage: 15% +++ Homing +++ Absorbation: +15% shield +++ Homing for the next player infront of you. That guy is able to avoid the impact when turning sharp before the missile arrives. Ricochet if fired without a target found.
IMPULSE +++ Damage: 0% +++ Force field +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ Shoots a ball which impacts some miles ahead on the track and creates a force field pushing the AI away from the center of the impact. AI can also be shot directly.
CANON +++ Damage for one bullet: 3% +++ 30 bullets +++ Absorbation: +7% shield +++ Used like a minigun, works like the Canon in Wipeout.
EMP +++ Damage: 0% +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Creates a visually visible electromagnetic field around the player. Players ship protects itself. The AGD and turbine of AI ships nearby become turned off for the time the field lasts [2 seconds].


MAGNETS +++ Damage 0% +++ 3 magnets +++ Absorbation: +5% shield +++ Magnets fall on the track, able to roll around. Then attach to ships coming too close and pull the ship down to the side attached. Only fall off when hitting a wall or another ship.
MINES +++ Damage for one mine: 5% +++ 4 mines +++ Absorbation: +7% shield +++ Placing 4 mines in a row. They last for about one lap.
TRACTORTRAP +++ Damage: 0% +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Placing an electromagnetic anchor onto the track. The ship travelling close to it gets attached and can't move forward until the magnet lost enough power [after 1 or 2 seconds].


TURBO +++ Absorbation: +15% shield +++ Functions like a turbo we all know.
GRAVITRON +++ Absorbation: +8% shield +++ Creates a portable maglock underneath your ship for 5 seconds. Player is able to travel through tiny hills and sharp corners much faster.
TELEPORTER +++ Absorbation: +8% shield +++ Player shoots a teleport [just like the Portal gun in Valve's "Portal"] which lasts for 2 seconds. Whoever travelles through appears some meters ahead. Portal can be destroyed by every assault weapon.
PHANTOMIZER +++ Absorbation: +10% shield +++ Creates a hologram of the players ship. Aiming systems aim there. Own ship becomes invicible for 5 seconds. Collisions still possible!!! Replacement of the classic "shield". EMP & Impulse won't harm.


I hope you guys can work with this list better.

wildmorgan
25th July 2012, 11:10 AM
Instakill with 100% success would be a poor design in any game. However, from a personal point of view, even a 1% chance or 0.1% chance of instakill should not exist...

You can't take away the Plasma Bolt's deadliness! It's a signature weapon of the Wipeout series and it's good to have that fear factor knowing that someone might get you with a lucky shot.

That said however, I think a compromise is in order, and I go back to a statement I made earlier: Plasma Bolt is deadly in Eliminator mode, but not in single/tournament races (it's still powerful, but not deadly).

Heck, I don't know if this game you guys are creating even has an Eliminator mode, but thought I would offer my two cents all the same.

@BrunoDG - I agree with doco4r, a portal "mine" would be confusing, but even so it's a cool idea. Your second idea is very similar to the Gravity Mine from Wipeout Fusion. When a ship flies over it, it pulls them down towards the track and holds them there for a second or two. A very annoying weapon indeed, but hell, all weapons are annoying when they cause you a disadvantage, lol!

Another thought I had, when someone gets a lock on you, you're pretty much screwed unless you have a shield handy. Another defensive weapon (for any lock-ons) would be a Flare, much like fighter aircraft use when they are being chased by a missile. This may seem redundant because the shield is protection enough already, but I'm just thinking of what Xpand said about this being an Amateur league and weapons being expensive. Surely an Energy Shield would be expensive, so a flare would be a cheaper alternative...

Xpand
25th July 2012, 12:55 PM
Added some details to Draco Cavernae:
Big ones:
6463
And small ones:
6462

If you can't notice them, then I did my job right! :D

BrunoDG
25th July 2012, 04:21 PM
@BrunoDG Not to be rude about your ideas, maybe I got them wrong. But when I imagine, you lay down two bombs, say you lay the first one at the finish line, than race almost a whole lap and place the second one, does it mean that whoever travelles in that portal get's pushed back for almost a whole lap? I think it's best to build in a limit of distance between those bombs and a travel-meter running down in your HUD after placing the first bomb. Also I wouldn't call them bombs then, but portals. However, I still think that's confusing and I like the idea of using the portal for yourself in the first place.


That was something I hadn't thought about. Really. Losing a lap for this reason would drag off all the fun.
It'd be fair if you had a limit distance and then the second "bomb" drops automatically. Dunno, it could be 250 or 300 meters.

And about the Idea of using the portal for yourself I've imagined something close to the the jump weapon of Zone Mode on Wipeout HD. Is that it?
If that is the point, it would be a nice idea, indeed!

Oh, and don't worry 'bout it, you were not rude :)

docfo4r
25th July 2012, 04:32 PM
Alright :)

Hmm it's like, you shoot a portal onto the track or wall infront of you [just like in the game Portal, just don't imagine it as a portal visually, more like a black hole]. And when you travel through it, your ship will be placed some meters ahead immediately. That jump weapon you were talking about was to increase the Zone stage, right? Well, it's not like that. Hope you got the idea now.

And Xpand: Added some grass to the hills cliffs? ;)

rdmx
25th July 2012, 07:03 PM
6475
Hi,

Ignore the fact the elements are off center, but here's a HUD mockup. I saw a few of the HUDs in the thread earlier and I wasn't really satisfied with them, they looked very 90s. The weapon icon is placeholder.

Xpand
25th July 2012, 07:16 PM
I like it. It's simplistic and direct. Doesn't distract you too much.

I started litteting DC with logs and cut trees bases.
6476
Also zero, is it possible to make a "visible in proximity" script in unity? I want to make small bushes on DC appear only when you are closer than 200 meters so I can add to the detail without killing the game's frame-rate.

docfo4r
25th July 2012, 07:17 PM
Nice HUD, I like it!


Also just had a brief idea for another race mode, I call it "Storm surviver". Basically you win if you are the last one that survived. There are no weapon pads on the track but everybody get's a new random pickup when fired/used the current one so it would be a real storm of weapons etc. going off. Anyway, just a brief idea I had, nothing too serious :)

zero3growlithe
25th July 2012, 07:35 PM
@rdmx: One word, Awesome! So simple and sooo coool! :D And doesn't require any moving bars :o Can you send me the font file so i can put it in-game? ^^
@Xpand: Sure, although it will make me some problems in the future cos of multiplayer... anyway, don't know how is your progress with placing speed/weapon pads so I've placed some myself to check how everything is working and one simple question: Is speed pad supposed to accelerate your ship in direction ship is pointing or speed pad's direction?
Oh, and enemies will begin shooting me tomorrow if I'm not wrong with future telling :P

docfo4r
25th July 2012, 07:57 PM
Awesome progress, zero! Well, if you ask me, the acceleration of the speed pad should be in the ship direction, otherwise it's a raceline-killer and could be annoying sometimes [for example if a speed pad is in a corner].
And I think the shield power is displayed as a bar aswell in rdmx' HUD.


@rdmx: Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I like it, it's just awesome! Is that red warning sign at the bottom left a static symbol or only appearing when energy got reduced or goes towards 0?

Xpand
25th July 2012, 07:58 PM
In multiplayer mode make them invisible to both players. I just want to use this on 3D grass/bush so it won't matter on a split-screen because it's going to be too small to be noticed.
But should it be like empty objects scattered around the that are replaced with the grass/bush models as we get closer or make the grass, bushes themselves invisible?

Oryx Crake
25th July 2012, 08:21 PM
I have to chime in with more love for rdmx's HUD! looks great. I guess the rest of us got a bit stuck in ideas from old wipeouts.

zero3growlithe
25th July 2012, 08:32 PM
@docfo4r: Ah, u'r right, but this one is just a simple rectangle so nothing hard to make :)
@Xpand: Just leave them as they are in your model and I'll take care of everything :) (btw. I was talking about online multiplayer :g (Challenge accepted! 8)))
@Oryx: I was trying to get away from it and got this F-Zero like HUD as you guys claim X_x

Oh, and I forgot to say that sounds are in-game too! Bad because self made but they are there xd

Xpand
25th July 2012, 08:36 PM
Well, if it is online multiplayer it won't pose an issue because each copy of the game is processing one player, the others are basically AI ships placed on the position of the other players. I can give you nice sounds. I have over 2 GB of Jet engine sounds, plus system voices like "Warning", "Caution", etc.

zero3growlithe
25th July 2012, 08:48 PM
2gb? Too many, you have more knowledge about planes so find me a nice "engine start" sound, "engine stand-by" sound after start one and one for "engine running" when actually flying :P
Do you have maybe good sounds for weak/strong/constant wall hits? (reminder: '/' stands for 'and') And an alarm for low energy and this caution... voice? Cool xd

BrunoDG
25th July 2012, 09:34 PM
@zero3growlithe Voices I can handle out with something, Maybe If I see you online by Sunday Afternoon I can send you some nice voices =D

Xpand
25th July 2012, 09:35 PM
Yeah, I gotta edit some to give it more of a double stage divergent flow engine "feel".
6477
Tunnel with some lights...

docfo4r
25th July 2012, 09:42 PM
Yeah, system sounds rule!! :)

Well if you guys need certain words... Remember that there are free tools on the net to create roboter-alike effects on self-recorded text. And it won't be hard to get a female to record her voice for SSGX. Just in case your 2GB collection doesn't have that special thing we might look for ;)

BrunoDG
25th July 2012, 10:50 PM
@docfo4r: I was thinking about a robotic male voice, like Wipeout 2097.

And yes, you can use freeware software like Audacity for recording. Helps a lot and does the job.

docfo4r
26th July 2012, 01:30 AM
Would also be alright. But then the voice announcing the pickups, not the countdown voice because I think that one is way too deep.

Oryx Crake
26th July 2012, 02:34 AM
while having trouble sleeping I decided to try my hand at some more modeling and came up with a concept for a zone ship. it's based on the wo1 feisar and here are some renders: 647864796480648164826483

TypeProton
26th July 2012, 05:51 AM
6475
Hi,

Ignore the fact the elements are off center, but here's a HUD mockup. I saw a few of the HUDs in the thread earlier and I wasn't really satisfied with them, they looked very 90s. The weapon icon is placeholder.

Cannot express how much I like that HUD. :D
And no new progress over Hubian or Shutoko design despite having concepts already nailed. What am I doing?... lol

Oryx Crake
26th July 2012, 06:05 AM
I know a guy who has some pretty good sound recording gear (he's a music/song producer) I could ask him if he would want to give me a hand recording some sounds and phrases

rdmx
26th July 2012, 07:11 AM
@zero3growlithe - will do. Though I'd expect the hull integrity bar to move :P
@docfo4r - It would be a triggered, blinking icon. I don't know if it would be more appropriate for it to blink when low on health, or when you take damage.

docfo4r
26th July 2012, 02:06 PM
Nice! That's awesome!

Since I see your HUD gets only positive feedback for now, I can see it in SSGX already ;)
Maybe we could have 3 different icons:
The one we see right now get's triggered when a bullet or whatever weapon hits the player.
Another red triangle with the transparent letters LOW starts to blink when shield energy is lower than 10%.
A yellow triangle with a tiny crosshair symbol starts to blink when the AI or someone else autoaimed your ship.

@Oryx: The ship looks nice, I especially like the rear.

Xpand
26th July 2012, 03:40 PM
6484

I think this is the most dangerous drop I've ever seen. There are no side guards. You either fall in track or out of it...

docfo4r
26th July 2012, 04:00 PM
Nothing wrong with adding some difficulty, eh? ;) But the following two corners look very very tight. I wonder if they can still be taken at higher speed classes...

Xpand
26th July 2012, 04:36 PM
The perspective kinda makes the illusion that it's a short distance to the corner. But one can also add a bit of braking/drifting action at fast speeds!
Added windmills to the background:
6485

I also noticed that this thread (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8809-Slipstream-GX-Campaign-stories) isn't being used at all. Weren't there people who had story ideas for this game, descriptions, etc. ?

Edit: Went back to the iFreet ship that was on hiatus for months:
648664876488

zero3growlithe
26th July 2012, 08:57 PM
Whew, so hot... anyway, enemies began to shoot me this evening! I don't know whyyyy :( It must be some kind of revenge for bullying them xD But they seem to dislike each other too...
@Xpand: Ship is awesome (as always) but those wings are a bit... hmmm, I just don't like them xd
@Oryx: I think it is a bit too big for zone speed xd But overall it is nice too ^^
@rdmx: No worries, I'll make this b.... move as I'll tell it :g

Oryx Crake
26th July 2012, 09:02 PM
@zero: well hehe it's only just a concept as of yet I just thought we could use a zone ship and I liked the idea of using the basic frame from the old feisar to work from.

@xpand: I like it a lot :P but then it's kinda my baby too XD

AG-SYSTEMS
27th July 2012, 03:11 AM
I have the worlds oddest request...

Can you make a Pure-Pluse AG-Systems styled ship? I'll paint it myself. Also, would it be ok to introduce a team that is headquartered at a city I'm building? That's who the ship is for.

Oryx Crake
27th July 2012, 04:45 AM
ok ag here are 2 shots of that work in progress: 64896490

EDIT: and some more with more stuff done: 64916492

Amaroq Dricaldari
27th July 2012, 12:29 PM
I have the worlds oddest request...

Can you make a AG-Systems styled ship? I'll paint it myself. Also, would it be ok to introduce a team that is headquartered at a city I'm building? That's who the ship is for.
Is the city in Israel? If so, then yuo may want to read back a few pages, I suggested a team caled Ti-Khana.

However, I am not sure that my idea for their ship will be very AG-Systems style.


--- Slightly Off Topic ---

I recently found a cool guy who composes electronic music. I haven't told him about [our] project, but maybe if one of you guys asks him he would be interested in helping out. If I ask him myself (I already sent him an idea for a song), then he might get suspicious (I have only known him for a few days, and he doesn't really know me yet).

There is also another guy I know who might be interested in Beta Testing.

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 01:20 PM
Hey guys,

I had a chat with Oryx on Skype yesterday and we were discussing some general things for SSGX so there are some news.
First of all, I am going to design and host a new website. The website is fresh and is awaiting certification but as soon as it's ready, we can find our game online under:

www.slipstreamgx.com
Well it costs me a few cents to host it but I got that service for a long time already but had no need for a homepage so I like to dedicate it to SSGX. Big THANKS to Oryx for giving me access to the old one so I have an easy go with logos & construction. Will redesign it, though.

Further on I created a Google Docs document for the whole progress of SSGX. This makes it easier for everyone to check the general progress of the game & for seeing who is doing/responsible for certain parts of the game without having to scroll back lots of pages in the forum. Everybody is free to edit but if you do so, please try to keep the general shape of the document and only update it with correct info! I clicked myself through the latest pages & hope I got every information as accurate as possible. Still, there are info's missing about track & team summary. Maybe you guys can have a look and correct whatever is missing or whatever I did wrong. So please everyone save the link & use this document when there is progress of the game! It also helps to keep track of the credits later...

The link for that document is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z1EiywCTH3PVV4DHLhIx-GIjgguQkICMnck12JuRah8/edit


And finally I got a new idea for the game regarding the menu & weapon system:
Remember Wipeout had a page in their options explaining how each pickup works? I think that it's important for SSGX to also have this, so people who are new to the game can check out what each weapon is doing without having to learn it while racing. However, maybe we can make something more than just a text to scroll through. I thought about a little animation for each weapon, always on the same section of the track with two ships marked as victim & attacker. And in that little animation you can see the certain pickup get used and it's effect & advantage. And maybe we could make that animation look like being in some kind of unrendered test-simulation, kinda like this to get the idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DX_JkQ_-bo&feature=related


One more thing: We found out that the teams are mostly coming from the EU. Maybe future teams should be in US or Australia if you like to have a balance here.

AG-SYSTEMS
27th July 2012, 02:06 PM
Is the city in Israel? If so, then yuo may want to read back a few pages, I suggested a team caled Ti-Khana.

However, I am not sure that my idea for their ship will be very AG-Systems style.

No, this city is set in a island on a Artificial Island somewhere near Japan.

vincoof
27th July 2012, 02:20 PM
The website is fresh and is awaiting certification but as soon as it's ready, we can find our game online under:

www.slipstreamgx.com
Don't know if this is because of the pending certification or something but currently this website shows a generic (and ugly) website that has nothing to do with AG racing.

Having the domain name registered and announcing the website is definitely good news, though. Can't wait seeing it online !

AG-SYSTEMS
27th July 2012, 02:20 PM
ok ag here are 2 shots of that work in progress:

EDIT: and some more with more stuff done:

Thanks, but I should have been more clear. A Pure-Pulse Style ship. Not a 2097 ship.

Oryx Crake
27th July 2012, 02:35 PM
nevermind delete post.

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 02:44 PM
@vincoof yeah it is not working yet, has to be registered first. First things to see on the website should be during weekend I assume. But sure thing is that slipstreamgx.com is ours now ;)

EDIT: Ok, the link is working now, created a blanko site for now and will create an WIP later today. Real website going online on weekend then!

Amaroq Dricaldari
27th July 2012, 02:50 PM
Thanks, but I should have been more clear. A Pure-Pulse Style ship. Not a 2097 ship.
Why not a touch of both games? Pure/Pulse style with a 2097 accent on the ship's model and texture.


No, this city is set in a island on a Artificial Island somewhere near Japan.
Bummer. Looks like another good idea of mine has just went down the drain (like all of my other ideas involving anything)

---

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 03:02 PM
Hey Amaroq, heads up, every idea here helps, even if it won't get converted directly :)

AG-System have their origins in Japan so placing it somewhere else in the world would be a little confusing.
But on the other side, I still think we should get away from the direct use of "AG-Systems" [and also AG-5Y5 or whatever placeholder for AG-Systems] so it should also be ok to quarter that certain team somewhere else than Japan.

I hope you two can figure it out :)

Amaroq Dricaldari
27th July 2012, 03:09 PM
Yeah, but he didn't specifically say AG-Systems, he just said an AG-Systems-style ship.

And I still want one of my ideas to make it in : ( , so it would be nice if someone could gve Ti-Khana some attention.

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 03:13 PM
I would if I had some modelling skills.
But the main focus of our programmer and modeller head unit are tracks and game coding now as far as I see since creating a team is not thaaat much of a problem for now. We'll eventually come to a point where we have to discuss every team suggested and which ones to make the cut so keep your ideas alive and work on them :)

zero3growlithe
27th July 2012, 04:02 PM
As for coding I'll make some corrections and debugging today and hopefully I'll post next demo (without main menu cos it still needs some work) where available will be shooting, speed/weapon pads, sounds, music, some new graphic effects... weapon randomness is just in amount of ammo you get for now xd (Enemies get only one bullet every time cos they are too loud... stupid bunch of kids xD).
Default ship: my ugly carpet xd

F.E.I.S.A.R
27th July 2012, 04:03 PM
Has anyone seen my two tracks? Would it be better if I redid the Singapore based track on what the Marina Bay area would look like in 2180,along with a scenery update for the Mach One Malaysia-Singapore track?

Xpand
27th July 2012, 04:23 PM
One thing at a time... I already told I can only work on one track at a time... When I finish DC, I'll search for some good layouts to try...
And we have our own domain!? Cool! You guys aren't paying anything for it, right? I don't want people wasting money with this project...
I have some incomplete team-sheets here if you want to add them to the site, afterwards...

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 04:49 PM
I do pay a little bit for it but first of all it's not much and second I am using another part of that web space for personal data transfer. I love the project, so it's alright :)

I'll work on the site this weekend. As for teams and everything... Make sure to keep the Google Docs document, which I linked a few posts back, up to date so it's easier to work for all of us!

Amaroq Dricaldari
27th July 2012, 05:01 PM
I know most of you guys probably know these things already, but I may as well clarify for anyone who doesn't:

- If you are making pictures or models: Keep the most important part of the picture off-center, as it will draw more attention to it. This is especially important if you have an awesome-looking ship in a pretty environment, and you want people to be looking at the ship.
- If you are making music, don't Over-Design. Doing so will only make it sound confusingly busy, and it will often lead to poor moments. Keep it mildly simple, and it will actually sound better.
- If you are programming something, then don't use Java. Java is poorly optimized, is constantly needing to be updated, and teaches bad coding habits. Not only that, but most Java-powered programs don't take advantage of Multi-Core CPUs.

Thank you, and have a very safe, and productive day.


I wrote that post for anyone who visits the thread and wants to join the Dev Team.

Xpand
27th July 2012, 06:51 PM
Speaking of music:
http://soundcloud.com/rbng-1/temtesh-memories

Finally! It took a while to come out! :D
I tried to capture the chaotic races in Temtesh Bay and transform them into sound.

zero3growlithe
27th July 2012, 09:38 PM
Ok, upload complete :) https://rapidshare.com/files/2837604467/SSGX%20Cool%20Version%208).rar
Sounds are a bit not prefect xd But it is fun to play... low-end pc users won't get this joy sadly :| I'll upload a movie tommorow which will be showing it :)
As for music it is random at race beggining, although this random functions suck and sometimes you'll need to press "r" more than once to get new one xD One bug you'll maybe not notice and I forgot to fix is after your ship is destroyed AI rockets don't hit anyone because of null reference exception in script without protection to prevent this... Ah, and soundtrack is made of 7 track which got under my mouse cursor xD I think that's all, have fun and don't forget to comment ^.^:+
Probably first comment: This red thing when colliding... WHYYYYYY!
And yeah, still old HUD, gotta change that when I'll be finishing Main Menu. And AI is set to highest difficulty available right now :g
Oh oh, and one ship is a ghost because I've deleted its mesh by mistake and didn't have... energy :P to change it. (F***, 5th edit...) Ship is shaking after you finish race (if anyone... although it is damn easy) because... I don't have any idea... i just can't find the issue so I'l just rewrite whole camera script cos it is a mess xd
(6th eeediiiiit, OMG) Sideshifts are on "d" and "f" but can be changed in input options when turning on game, shooting is on "v" key and can't be changed cos forgot to define it as button xd "b" is boost, "c" is camera and barrel rolls don't work because I'm still fighting with game-controller-and-keyboard-controls possibility...

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 09:51 PM
Nice, zero. Am downloading it right now.

Question: Should there be a downloadable demo on our website? My own opinion is "no", since we don't have an official demo but only test releases for ourself to find bugs etc.
But I like to know your opinions.

EDIT: Will store a link of the most recent demo available in our G-docs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z1EiywCTH3PVV4DHLhIx-GIjgguQkICMnck12JuRah8/edit).

zero3growlithe
27th July 2012, 10:07 PM
Could be posted just as developer version for testing, if it is about SlipStream then why not place project progress in there :)
Updated G-doc with my "notes", not updated but can be changed and if I'll ever get bored I'll take care of it too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some game performance info:
- Max VRAM usage: around 260mb (wow)
- 128 draw calls... Xpand, I need you to make every ship combined into one mesh, it shouldn't be a problem cos it is just one button and everything is fine after that
- it takes around 9% of one of four 3.33ghz core on my CPU
- uses... OMG, 600mb of RAM... gotta fix that too (one line of code again xD) EDIT: Oooopss, maybe not.... it will take some more optimization... damn Java
EDIT: Lightmapping and high resolution textures in really demanding formats are making so much mess in RAM so I'll convert them to *.png cos it is almost lossless format i think. And I'll have to delete some unused files later too.

Game download count: 11;

AG-SYSTEMS
27th July 2012, 10:08 PM
Speaking of music:
http://soundcloud.com/rbng-1/temtesh-memories

Finally! It took a while to come out! :D
I tried to capture the chaotic races in Temtesh Bay and transform them into sound.

Awesome! Very nice.

@zero3growlithe-It's taking ages to download. Do you have a idea on how to make it smaller?

zero3growlithe
27th July 2012, 10:27 PM
Yeah, although I won't do this now till I'm done with some things cos it is related to number and kind of files within my project files.
btw. It is just 100mb, took 20min to upload xd EDIT: Uh huh... i forgot this **** has those damn transfer limitations... stupid hostings

Xpand
27th July 2012, 10:56 PM
It's not the file size. RapidShare plain sucks. Mediafire is way faster, both on upload and download. I recomend you use that next time.

docfo4r
27th July 2012, 11:13 PM
Awesome update on G-docs! The "bug report" thing was very important to be added :+

Some notes of the first impression from me:
- Cassandra looks sooooo good.
- I am soooo bad at racing xD
- The pads are great, although I find it a little bit hard to tell if it's speed or weapon pad when seeing it infront of you, maybe it's just because the speed class.
- Sound effects are nice, I like them!
- That red effect when hitting a wall, also nice.
- In the first tunnel of Cassandra there are some kind of light outlines on the opposite side of the windows... Maybe Xpand, you should fix that out.

Xpand
27th July 2012, 11:35 PM
It's awesome! Just plain awesome.
@docfo4r: Yeah, those are just crooked UV coordinates. It's a quick fix.
@zero: One thing you forgot: the lights/self illum material on the advertisements* and lower the shininess of the light cones in the tunnel and those tubes** on the black structures just before the largest mall before the seaside tunnel.
Other than that it's perfect! I have no other complaints.

*
6496

**
6495

Oh yeah, the AI is hard as hell. But that's a cool feature! xD

AG-SYSTEMS
27th July 2012, 11:41 PM
Very well done. I have only one problem.

I hate keyboards for racing. I really should hook up my PS3 Controller.

zero3growlithe
27th July 2012, 11:58 PM
@Ag-sys: I don't recommend using PS3 controller yet :P Wait till I'll make it work as it should and then you can experiment ;)
@Xpand: Ah, yeah, my memory rocks so... hmmm, I'll fix that tommorow so I can forget it xd
@Whoever wrote that (scrolling on iPhone... yea):
- The pads are great, although I find it a little bit hard to tell if it's speed or weapon pad when seeing it infront of you, maybe it's just because the speed class.
Hah, I knew it will be hard to tell what is what without any colors before setting them up :g Xpand, it would be cool if you could make somehing like light-rays coming out of wep/sp pad so you can tell what is what from far away :o
quote[AI is hard like hell] > And I still think how to make them harder... well, too much skills sucks xd

docfo4r
28th July 2012, 12:00 AM
I posted that. Glad to see I am not the only one with that problem, I thought I am blind or so xD

zero3growlithe
28th July 2012, 12:04 AM
Meeeh, cos I've moved my finger so many times to get this piece of text for quote but i forgot to get who wrote that and going back would be too troublesome so... hmmm xD

docfo4r
28th July 2012, 12:08 AM
Haha, no problem. Most important is that the message got delivered, the sender is not that important ;)

BrunoDG
28th July 2012, 04:02 AM
I gave an idea about a team from South Korea, but I'm still developing the concept ship of that team.
Does it help about something?

If you want to know more about the Story of the team, here it goes again:

Team Name: [BreeTech]
Country: [South Korea]

"The Korean Dream Factory", as what they are called, are hungry for victory in this season! An inspiring growth in the nanotech market made this korean company dream higher as they started sponsoring the F9000. After the 2nd rise of the Anti-Gravity League, they saw the perfect chance to get into the FX150 championship but unfortunately, for the mass disapointment of the South Korean Nation, no. 1 pilot, the "Star Saint", Syoung Jung-Moon, suffered severe injuries and had to be immediately retired of the track.
People thought he'd die for the severity of the injuries, but Breetech granted that the "Star Saint" would still be running on the FX200, and this time, they'd crush all their rivals on the tracks. Guess that we'll have to wait and see...

I'm still working on the concept ship for this team, I'll post them here as soon as I'm done with them (and as soon as my laziness + work have the kindness of making me do it =P)

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 08:04 AM
- uses... OMG, 600mb of RAM... gotta fix that too (one line of code again xD) EDIT: Oooopss, maybe not.... it will take some more optimization... damn Java

Read my previous post. :P

TypeProton
28th July 2012, 10:49 AM
Okay, feedback of the current beta
- Cassandra is amazing!
- I think there should be more effect like AG craft pushing forward or zooming effect when passing over speed pad. Also speed/weapon pad are indistinguishable from afar.
- Controlling with gamepad's analog stick is twitchy. It moves when hitting a set threshold instead of being sensitive of stick's movement. Dpad not tested yet. I feel like the AG craft keeps flying too much tbh.
- AI twich the entire way... :/
- Oh gawd, that red bleeding effect when you're hurt. It's fine actually. Just don't carry that over to the rest of the HUD. Try to use really quick orange/yellow bleeding instead.
- I don't like the sound of the engine. It sounds more like jet fighter more than AG craft.

Sorry for being nitpick lol. You guys are doing fine! Keep it up!

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 11:47 AM
Well, they are powered by what is essentially a cross between a Fusion Reactor and a Jet Turbine.

docfo4r
28th July 2012, 12:01 PM
Not to forget the Flux Capacitor ;)

</joke>

Am working on the website now...

Xpand
28th July 2012, 12:06 PM
I don't like the sound of the engine. It sounds more like jet fighter more than AG craft.


At least in pure you can tell they use an advanced jet engine. A 4 stage divergent turbine.
A divergent turbine is a jet engine with a larger exhaust diameter than the combustion chamber:
6497
I don't understand the 4-stage bit... I think it's something about the layout of the engine.
Plus we know that most ships use auxiliary jet engines.
Furthermore all ships have a intake/exhaust layout for each engine they have. If it was some nuclear fusion engine there would be no need for the intakes. One thing they might use in the main engine is a ion motor for long range action.

TypeProton
28th July 2012, 12:46 PM
I see...

And [Hubian starting grid (http://i.imgur.com/evxXu.jpg)]! Those glowing Chinese lamp you see are floating around the track. This is the same art style that will apply to most indoor section of Hubian. Except the floor are different.

Xpand
28th July 2012, 12:59 PM
That looks pretty cool. Have you made a top view of the track with elevation markings?
Also, can you do the sequence of Blocky counting down to "GO!" so we can add that to the start-line screen?

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 01:04 PM
Furthermore all ships have a intake/exhaust layout for each engine they have. If it was some nuclear fusion engine there would be no need for the intakes. One thing they might use in the main engine is a ion motor for long range action.

Why do you think I said a 'Cross Between'?

Befroe the Turbo Fan was invented, all Jet Engines were just Rocket Engines. Then, one person had the idea of sticking a fan on each end, both connected by a rod. The fan at the back is spun by the exhaust, and thus it roates the fan in front, which acts as a propeller, both increasing Engine Power and Effeciency. That is also why Jet Engines are so damn dangerous to walk next to.

By making it part Fusion Reactor, then all you need to do is make it part Fusion Reactor. The 'Rocket' part of the engine is basically just a Hydrogen-Fueled Nuclear Reactor with an Exhaust Port. But if it is just Hydrogen Atoms being combined into Helium Molecules, why is Harimau even bothering with making Bio Fuels?

Unless the engines for some reason still rely on standard Jet Fuel, but the Jet Fuel is just enriched with Hydrogen and Nitrogen, the Nitrogen cleaning the engine and the Hydrogen fueling the reactor.

TypeProton
28th July 2012, 01:06 PM
I haven't. But I've done a elevation sketch. So : SOON.
Do you mind if I don't do the countdown thingy in vector?

@docfo4r below : Sure!

docfo4r
28th July 2012, 01:31 PM
Your current sketch looks awesome, Type. I hope you don't mind if I use it in our website :)

Xpand
28th July 2012, 02:23 PM
Why do you think I said a 'Cross Between'?

Befroe the Turbo Fan was invented, all Jet Engines were just Rocket Engines.

That isn't correct. Rocket engines rely on liquid+solid fuel burning, while jet engines mix and burn a liquid fuel+air mixture. They don't have to have a compressor, just an intake and exhaust. A Pulse Jet engine doesn't have any fans, for example, it rather alternates between gas vacuum and compression (http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/howtheywork.shtml)while it burns the mixture.

@TypeProton, just do the sequence in what way you want. I can color it in photoshop if you draw it. Just give me some info on the color.

zero3growlithe
28th July 2012, 02:41 PM
@TypeProton: This picture... awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome!, and again awesome! :D

Oryx Crake
28th July 2012, 02:45 PM
@AG-SYSTEMS: Because I'm not really liking the look of how this is coming out I'm gonna stop fiddling with it but here you go :P650065016502

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 03:35 PM
*post removed*

F.E.I.S.A.R
28th July 2012, 03:51 PM
@Amaroq:Mind posting the conversation here? I'd like to see that he is a fan of the series.

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 03:57 PM
*post removed*

F.E.I.S.A.R
28th July 2012, 03:59 PM
Meaning?

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 04:11 PM
Nevermind. Let's just continue with the original conversation. Glad that everything was written down, eh?

Anyway, I came up with a new idea for a track, it involves destroyable areas (to create shortcuts and whatnot). Can the engine handle destructable terrain yet?

TypeProton
28th July 2012, 04:13 PM
Just looking around in official Wipeout Pure website... Wow. They mentioned FX150 amature league there...
- No over the top weapons and dangerous track design, Those are reason in-universe fans hate F9000. Hopefully no second Temtesh incident happens.
- We got to be careful with storyline (if there's any) and teams' background from now on.
- And make them awesome, yes. :D

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 04:33 PM
Temtesh Incident? I knew that Temtesh Bay sucked, but still, I didn't know there was a whole incident about it.

F.E.I.S.A.R
28th July 2012, 04:42 PM
@Amaroq:Temtesh Bay had it's Course 2 run through an underground mine section. A summary of what happened can be read on WipEout Central,in the Temtesh Bay article.


Nevermind. Let's just continue with the original conversation. Glad that everything was written down, eh?
What does this mean?I'd really like to see proof.


Anyway, I came up with a new idea for a track, it involves destroyable areas (to create shortcuts and whatnot). Can the engine handle destructible terrain yet?
One point of Fusion was it's false walls. Many a pilot could use the shortcuts in weapon enabled races,but not in time trials.
Also,I don't think it is a matter of whether the engine/generator is able to handle such destructible terrain. Rather,it is whether or not FX150 specification allows for it.

Amaroq Dricaldari
28th July 2012, 05:04 PM
As for the whole "I am glad everything was written down" was basically me saying "I am glad that we can't really forget where we were at"

zero3growlithe
28th July 2012, 06:08 PM
It begins to get mysteriously...
------------------------------------------------
Anyway, I've created a new ship... not textured yet but I'm planning to make it really rusty and old so it will look like an old, totally first AG-Ship ever created :P (it is taken from my today's dream :g)
https://picasaweb.google.com/106083964399065727105/Artezix?authuser=0&feat=directlink
I like it so I'll make sure to finish it...

rdmx
28th July 2012, 08:12 PM
65036505
Race result mockup ^_^ - it's nothing compared to what the actual coders and modellers are doing though

The italics make me think a little too 'persona' :P

AG-SYSTEMS
28th July 2012, 10:05 PM
One point of Fusion was it's false walls. Many a pilot could use the shortcuts in weapon enabled races,but not in time trials.
Also,I don't think it is a matter of whether the engine/generator is able to handle such destructible terrain. Rather,it is whether or not FX150 specification allows for it.

I don't think so. It's never been in any of the Newer Versions. Why do it? Besides, one again, it kinda creates a unfair advantage.

I know there are purist weapon-free racers out there. So, they would not like this idea.

Xpand
28th July 2012, 10:05 PM
Yet another background detail!
6507

And one thing we should add to the game are ship shadows. It can be done with a plane with a fading spot that's always aligned to the track normal and moves with the ship, but always at the same height above the track...

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 12:13 AM
Anyway, I came up with a new idea for a track, it involves destroyable areas (to create shortcuts and whatnot). Can the engine handle destructable terrain yet?
Hmm I don't like that part with destroyable stuff... Goes too much in a "just for fun" racer like Split/Second. And like mentioned before, it would be unfair for time trials. I think "shortcuts" have to be found by the player themself [like placing a turbo and nose pitch in the right moment in Wipeout to get several br's out of your ship].


Rather,it is whether or not FX150 specification allows for it.
I really respect your background knowledge but will this game be 100% part of the Wipeout universe & are we addicted to SL? I thought it's a stand-alone game with is using maybe some ideas here and there from Wipeout but I wouldn't gold-weight every detail if it fits with some kind of leagues or not... Let's be a little independent ;)


And one thing we should add to the game are ship shadows.
+1! It adds to the feeling of really "floating" and is an important detail for the game. I assume you were thinking about shadows straight under the ship, nothing that is calculated by any lights on the track or the sun position ;)
Oh btw, Xpand: Are the windmills wings moving in the final version of DC?

@TypeProton:
Do you think you could create those awesome track logos of yours for Tristans Inferior, Delcor City & Draco Cavernae? Would be highly useful for the website!

Xpand
29th July 2012, 12:34 AM
The system I though for the shadows doesn't need real time tracing (we don't have it in Unity3D unless it is the Pro version).
And the windmills are supposed to rotate. I made the fan a separate object.

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 12:41 AM
Do you think you could create those awesome track logos of yours for Tristans Inferior, Delcor City & Draco Cavernae? Would be highly useful for the website!

Let me do it. I am sure I have some ideas. Name a track, give me a brief description, and I will try to make a logo for it.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 12:49 AM
Sure you can try. But then try to make them alike TypeProton's ones so we have a basic line for the logos. You see the three track names in my post you quoted. For a brief description, ask the authors.
Tristans Inferior & Delcor City are zero's tracks, Draco Cavernae is Xpand's one.

Xpand
29th July 2012, 12:59 AM
Actually, DC isn't mine. The original idea is from Cameron, I don't know his WOzone name... I only made it in 3D...
Cassandra is mine, but TP already made the logo for it, though I have no idea where it is now...

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 01:04 AM
You can find it around page 172 or so... I stored the three existing logos to my computer which are Cassandra, Basin Park & Basin Park Hill.

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 01:08 AM
I heard a recent rumor where one of the tracks you were working on was actually Vinita K. Why are you hiding this from us, Xpand? You need to be ashamed of yourself! (joking of course)

TypeProton
29th July 2012, 01:19 AM
@TypeProton:
Do you think you could create those awesome track logos of yours for Tristans Inferior, Delcor City & Draco Cavernae? Would be highly useful for the website!
I guess I'll let it up to Amaroq's hand then. ;)
Draco Cavernae I remember the track owner asked us not to do it. Looks like he wants to do it himself.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 01:23 AM
Maybe you both can make some logos and we can see which one fits best or you both work together.
Hmmm but nobody remembers who he really is? Did he even post in here? xD

Xpand
29th July 2012, 01:42 AM
I guess I'll let it up to Amaroq's hand then. ;)
Draco Cavernae I remember the track owner asked us not to do it. Looks like he wants to do it himself.

I'm pretty sure he either forgot or isn't thinking of doing it. I say go ahead and do it too...
One can't delay part of a project just because of a simple logo.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 01:44 AM
Yeah and also do some for Tristans & Delcor if zero is ok with that. Maybe wait for his answer first ;)

F.E.I.S.A.R
29th July 2012, 11:16 AM
I don't think so. It's never been in any of the Newer Versions. Why do it? Besides, one again, it kinda creates a unfair advantage.

I know there are purist weapon-free racers out there. So, they would not like this idea.
What I meant was that a gimmick of Fusion was the shortcuts. It was those kind that would take away a quarter of the race length(figuratively),instead of shortcuts like the Amphi-Scenic Shortcut.


I really respect your background knowledge but will this game be 100% part of the Wipeout universe & are we addicted to SL? I thought it's a stand-alone game with is using maybe some ideas here and there from Wipeout but I wouldn't gold-weight every detail if it fits with some kind of leagues or not... Let's be a little independent ;)I'll get a little roleplay-ey here:
What I meant is that everyone decides on the tracks to include. And if the Comm.(read:majority) says No,it will not be a track.

Back onto topic:A few things
1.I cannot download the Alpha. I'd really like to try the alpha,but no,"Download parameters invalid".
2.May I include my Mach One Drag Prototype/Airbraker Craft into the SSGX GDoc?

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 11:27 AM
Do you use Skype now? I can send you the file over there then if you like to :)

Did you ask me about your ship? How far is your progress on the ship, got any pictures? Let the "Comm." decide ;) But in my opinion keep working on the ship until it's finished. It's always good to have stuff ready instead of halfway made work gets dusty.

Oryx Crake
29th July 2012, 11:50 AM
cameron is Dusk114 or some variation of that and if you are designing a logo for draco cavernae I would suggest a dragon theme, specifically an amphithere dragon (search google for it) as I know that this was what Cam had in mind with his ship design, which was intimately connected to the draco cavernae track. I can't promise he'll like it but if you think about these spcifications when you make the logos you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 12:01 PM
Just curious, do the logos have to fit inside a Hexagon or something like that? Because I am used to the Hexagonal-grid system for Track Selection and Event Selection and whatnot.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 12:03 PM
Nope not yet. The shape & style I am looking for is this (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?7584-Let-s-make-a-Wipeout-game!-This-time-for-real!&p=215712#post215712).

Xpand
29th July 2012, 12:06 PM
I only ask one thing: Make it supersized, like in a 2048x2048px sheet.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 12:09 PM
Oh, okay.
Than I suggest to make it like Xpand said and a copy of it which is not that big. Because, if you have small lines in a big picture and need to reduce the size, the small lines will almost disappear...

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 12:16 PM
Alright Zero, I'm doing Tristan's Inferior. Hit me with a description. Be as detailed as you would like, and feel free to send me WIP pictures of your track if you think it will help.

F.E.I.S.A.R
29th July 2012, 12:18 PM
@docfo4r: DLed the alpha from an alternate source from the FB group.

Crashed out of the race. What an embarrassment! :P

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 01:13 PM
Got a placeholder for Tristan's Inferior ready. It isn't the best, but I guess it works for the time being.

I based my design on the silhouette of the Tristan from EVE Online, because that was the first thing that came to mind.

6508

It seems that the forum automatically converted my PNG to a JPEG, so enjoy the lack of transparency (and the icon was meant to be tranlucent, but now it is completely opaque).

zero3growlithe
29th July 2012, 02:43 PM
If u'r so fired-up to take this track on yourself then here is my super detailed sketch of what it may look like xd
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iEeEgZfjEAPmlT5NUT-Le9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink (something random, cos i don't have any idea for buildings right now...)
And here's the project file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?4x0njc2g7osha7s
Have fun :P

btw. Race end ship shaker fixed xd

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 02:56 PM
Okay, but I am not sure that I can play the track, since my computer isn't ready to be playing Slipstream GX, even in its Alpha/Open-Beta build.

By the way, if you want the verison of the icon that is translucent, just email me and I will send it to you.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 03:08 PM
Wait... Does it mean Amaroq continues to work on Tristans? I mean.. Modelling texturing etc? I thought it's just about the logo.
BTW: That sketch looks great. I hope Tristans will make it to SSGX though I think it need some more jump-places or so, it's kinda flat...

EDIT: For the logo creation crew: Another set of logos we need would be weapon symbols, something that can be used in the HUD size-wise. A weapon list + describtion can be found in the GDocs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z1EiywCTH3PVV4DHLhIx-GIjgguQkICMnck12JuRah8/edit?pli=1).

Xpand
29th July 2012, 03:51 PM
BTW zero, I'm working on the menu garage. You don't need to worry about that.

Amaroq Dricaldari
29th July 2012, 04:13 PM
Wait... Does it mean Amaroq continues to work on Tristans? I mean.. Modelling texturing etc? I thought it's just about the logo.
BTW: That sketch looks great. I hope Tristans will make it to SSGX though I think it need some more jump-places or so, it's kinda flat...

All I made was the logo, and that is all I plan on making. But I agree, the track does look kinda flat.

For the buildings, I guess it is time to start seraching through vast quantities of reference materials. For example, photos of Dubai or under-construction apartment blocks. Or if you have Netflix, you can watch Extreme Engineering, they have some cool buildings on there.

docfo4r
29th July 2012, 04:18 PM
Alright Amaroq, sorry for missunderstanding :)

Some update in our Google document! Added a request-page, hope you guys can check it out.