(SSGX Origins) Let's make a Wipeout game! This time for real!

[Xpand]

Yeah when I need to know the actual values I search too... Don't know why I wrote 1224 km/h though...

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

With the in-cockpit enhancements, G-Forces should be reduced by 10%, maybe 40% if you factor in the Inertial Dampeners. Also, F-22 pilots where these things called G Suits. What they do is they reduce the G forces that the pilot feels significantly, without actually reducing the G forces themselves. I… think it works through pressure…

[docfo4r]

Hey I have an idea about tracks...

I played the free run demo where I can just drive around in the wilderness, so why not making one race track like this? Instead of driving on a road with barriers left and right, drive through the wilderness and of course the road is clearly visible on the ground but also trees, rocks, mountains etc. are placed in a way that you will know where to race.
Could be something like a bonus track to unlock or the final track in the career mode, what do you think?

I wish I could create this one on my own to show your my idea but I don't know how to create a track :|

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Try drawing the 'map'
And is Xpand around? I'd like his input on my (2D) tracks

[docfo4r]

Alright, give me some days. I draw it ;)

[Rotational_aspect]

Amaroq Dricaldari: all fast jet pilots have G-suits. They work because they keep blood from 'pooling' in the lower body during high G.

[Oryx Crake]

actually what happens with g-suits is that when they are exerted to a certain amount of g-force they inflate primarily at the bottom of the legs and then further up as the g-forces rise constricting blood vessels, essentially ensuring that blood doesn't disappear from the top half of the body thereby preventing such things as black outs and grey outs(it's not fool proof though and at certain levels of g-force they don't work very well as inflating any more would strangle the pilot, there by causing what they're supposed to be preventing, but pilots still need to control breathing and such in order to endure the massive pressure the body is exposed to..) they've been around in one form or another since the advent of super sonic flight.

@F.E.I: in any case. I looked at your sketches feisar they work for making a track and I could start modeling it since xpand is terribly busy with school, but it'll take a while and well I also have my own tracks to work on XD so don't expect very quick results ^^;

@doc: I've been playing with the idea of a track without laps, essentially a track sort of like a rally track, a course from point a to point b without passing the same place twice, it would have some open sections and such but I'd hesitate to put actual obstacles in the way as a game with this kind of speed and skill requirement kinda doesn't work very well with it. The obvious example would be wipeout fusion where those kinds of tracks were the most hated tracks in wipeout history (for reference, cubiss float 2-3 alca vexus... 2 I think) putting trees and rocks in the middle of the track pisses racers off but open sections and less than straight walls and such can work. problem is I think that with a game like wipeout or indeed SSGX racing lines are paramount and obstacle courses kinda get in the way of that as dodging trees and rocks is less about the perfect racing line than it is new features for the sake of new features... if you know what I mean. it's hard to explain what I'm trying to get across but I'd bet you that most of the established wipeout fans would dislike free standing obstacles in the middle of the track.

Also @Zero I've kinda gotten to a point with the basin park tracks where I wanna see if they work in the game before I go any further could I send you the tracks somehow and you could beta test them or put them into a demo and send it to me so we can work on debugging them? you know before I go ahead and texture anything that needs changing.

[docfo4r]

Yeah I know what you mean. Well, my intention was to place rocks, trees and whatever nature elements not in the way, but left and right so it will act like a barrier. Of course not as tight so it would replace a road side of a race track but to clearly see where the road is heading.
But I like your idea with the A to B race... Could be a new racing mode, something like "Navigator"...

[Xpand]

Docfo4r, is this what you want?
61966186618761886189619061916192619361946195

[dreadofmondays]

That last screenshot is the sex.

[docfo4r]

Xpand, hm no actually not. But don't get me wrong, your track is awesome!! I am really looking forward to play this one.

But my idea was to have some kind of open-world track where there is no street like the Wipeout ones where the ship are "trapped" on the road. See Oryx post to get the idea :)

[Rotational_aspect]

Sort of a rally mode with no set level? Interesting, but would be a nightmare to code unless the AI is completely changed from node based to a navigation mesh style. Both Blender and Unity can do this, as they are built in functions.

[docfo4r]

I think it would be cool to have this. I don't know how difficult it would be to program the AI or how "big" the track would be in filesize and rendering time since you have to create much more ambience and collision objects but maybe it would really be a fun mode and makes Slipstream a little bit more "special" and not just a Wipeout copy.
I'd say "let's give it a try" but since I can't code or model anything the work would be on you, guys... So, it's up to you :)


EDIT:
I also have an idea for the menu... I really like how the menu works and the animations, just the wall behind the ship looks kinda empty. How about to place some kind of certifications, finish line screen shots or prize cups when completing a stage in the career mode? So everyone would have his individual wall depending on his progress in the game...

[Rotational_aspect]

It would'nt be too hard to get obstacle avoidance, its just it would splinter the game into WO and a cross between a pachinko machine and the speeder bikes in Return of the Jedi.

It would work better if there were more than ten racers (more like F Zero X numbers- so fifty!) ...it would make up for the lack of intelligence of each racer.

I'm not against the idea at all, in fact I thought of something similar quite a while ago. I wrote an entire game design document with backstory etc. I deleted it though when I realised I could never make it. Its a shame I did not hang onto it, as it would be feasible now and was an interesting read. One idea was that during stages, you would find special items in hidden places, and destroyed opponents could be salvaged by your team for parts (think of the balloons collecting mana in Magic Carpet). Some of these items were parts for the ultimate racer, so you had a balance of racing to win, and racing to find objects that might benefit you later.

[Xpand]

One thing though. Can't one make AI follow a spline curve with a certain margin of error? Like, having a spline curve in the center of the track following its shape and then have something that calculates nodes at each point (vertex) of the "curve". That way we could easily change the amount of nodes by changing the interpolation of the curve.

[Rotational_aspect]

My node setup does this partially and I suspect Zero's does too (i.e. nodes within a set distance are seen as being reached: so for exact path following distance would be 0, whilst for lazy pathfinding a large number can be used (like 50)).

I did think about this, but Blender cannot use splines in the game engine unless you you record each vertex somehow. I cannot speak for Unity though.

[docfo4r]

Hmm I wouldn't make it too much like a "treasure hunt"... Just a track without an actual road with simple start and finish. Otherwise, people would start to randomly fly around to find things and give it a second try to win the race and it also somehow has that GTA feeling in my opinion^^ You know... Driving around & looking for easter eggs and other interesting stuff.

About the number of opponents... Well the good thing about lots of opponents is that there is much more going on on the road, maybe resulting in more action. But the other hand is that if you have just about 7 opponents and they will always keep the same name, same ship etc. it's much more "personal". Like in career you will always know "Opponent random name here is always a hard nut to crack..."

@Xpand: Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about^^ I hope the programmers in this forum can help you out :)

[Xpand]

@Docfo4r
As much as I enjoy the idea I think it kinda goes away from the initial goal of the game of being the Amateur league simulation and more into the sandbox game zone... But those are just my 2 cents...

@Rotational
For what I've seen zero's system makes the ships follow a straight path between two nodes. That is a problem when you have twisting turns and stuff like that. That's why I thought of this. One can always make the node objects in the 3D software and make the game software assign progressive values to them, so the ships will follow it in order. This way you wouldn't waste too much time setting up each and every node in the track. Maybe just adjust the ones that need adjustment.

[docfo4r]

Hehe it's alright. It's just an idea of mine. Since I can't really "work" on something, I'll just think about ideas... What do you think about my idea with the menu? The changes on the wall behind the ship?

Oh and another thing: While I played the demo with the AI on Cassandra, it happened twice already that two AI ships crash together and then keep staying on the exact place of the track, they won't move any more. Only after I hit them hard, they get rid of each other and keep on racing...
Don't know if that is a known problem, next time it happenes I will take a video.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Xpand, I made an awesome logo in Adobe Illustrator today. It started as an accident honestly, but it is still awesome. It doesn't have anything to do with Slipstream GX though (it is a FEISAR logo). I was just messing around in Illustrator, I was using the Eraser tool on a Circle. I noticed that I made an awesome looking pattern, so I turned it into this. Sorry that I couldn't make one for one of the teams in Slipstream.

The one on the left is the old one, and the one on the right has a Glow Filter added to it with Paint.NET
What do you think?

------

If you need to talk to me, you can find me on Steam.

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: There is an old Python script that takes a spine and records all vertex positions, and each vertex can hold a property (would have to be set automatically though!) so theoretically it is possible.

I cannot speak for Zero though. His system is probably more advanced than mine and may be more suitable.

A crazy idea I had for node placement was for the nodes to be placed by the player as they racing: as they go round the track in a test mode, they could drop nodes like mines so the nodes are placed on a racing line. But this would require a system to record where they go, and would be a lot of work for little gain.

The node mesh version automatically computes the shortest route, apparently, and does what you describe pretty well. The downside to this on Blender is that the agent that follows the path is not set up for racing. People who have used it for racers have used the agent as a moving node, i.e. the AI tracks to the agent as the agent moves round the track. In fact I tried this approach (but with an agent that followed keyframes) when I first started this :blarg

docfo4r: that design document was from ten years ago- I was naive ;)

[zero3growlithe]

Heee, well I had this curve navigation idea at the beginning of A.I scripting but someone said something that it is hard and other stuff so I've chosen different path... easier one and more demanding as each collider is hell of a b**** if it comes to CPU usage... I know one thing, imported curves are not visible in Unity so I assume that they're just not supported :| (no words about it on google either)
I have one thing on mind though, I can return to my old AI navigation I was using earlier (node distance check navigation (no colliders)) but setting this up will be much more "painful" as not only I have to name each one incrementally (1, 2, 3... gosh) but I have to add much more of them and rotate each one in direction the track is facing as I'm using them for ship respawning xd... or I'll just look for another method for respawning (still there is naming...)

Oh, and there is another way too (just thought of it :P): Create a script which will follow track on race start and place a node every n-meters while naming each one incrementally, but if track will have a jump or something which will make this script to lose track of the... track, it might fail (my new track has some big holes in track)... well, maybe i can add some modifiers which will keep it on good way :)

[Xpand]

You can always make a system that checks the ship distance to the track's wall and corrects the ship's direction using the nearest face normal of the track wall, that way the ship velocity will always be perpendicular to the wall normal. But I guess that might take a lot of memory... I'll try it here...

[zero3growlithe]

Still i need checkpoints to check the ship's distance from finish line... well, maybe i'll just check how it works and then think what next :g

[docfo4r]

Xpand: Wouldn't that mean that the ships would always race exactly in the middle of the track?

BTW: What happenes when a ship got turned around in some way. Does it know it's facing the wrong way or will it become a ghost rider then?

[Xpand]

Not if you gave them a threshold. What I said would only align then properly when they got to a certain distance of the wall, doesn't mean that distance has to be right in the middle. Actually having them flying exactly in the middle of the track would be impossible because the system would try to align the ship following the nearest normal, but because the ship is in the exact middle the distance would be the same between the two sides of the track, ergo the system would become confuse and you would probably have a spinning ship in the middle of the track if not a system crash in the worst case scenario....

[Rotational_aspect]

Xpand: The other assumption is that the track sides are uniform and are upright, something which can be faked.

Zero: Your old AI method sounds like my current AI, except that nodes do not require alignment!

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Nobody is going to say anything about my pictures? I can try to make one for some of the Slipstream GX teams if you want.

[Xpand]

Yeah, I make an invisible vertical wall for the tracks to detect collisions, the guidance system can use that as well.
@Amaroq: The picture is nice, but yeah, it's kinda off-placed in this thread. Try to make some for the game, like adverts and stuff like that. Or even try to come up with new teams.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

I... might not be able to do that.

I often need a base to work with, and there are very few things I actually do from the ground up.

------

EDIT: New Team Idea;
Name: [UNDECIDED]
This corporation specializes in the development of androids, crash-test-dummies, and safety systems. They recently formed an AG team, in an attempt to prove that Androids were equally good if not superior AG pilots, and that the death tolls of the sport would be greatly reduced. The team didn't start competing until the FX200, but have sponsored the FX150 and F9000. Due to their high success rate, they have been qualified for the FX300, but wether or not they will actually participate is unknown (hint: they didn't).

[Rotational_aspect]

:frown:My main PC has just died.....

Now I must be getting too sensible since I am thinking of getting a Core™ i7 3930K Six Core 3.2GHz with a GTX 670 graphics card, but my dad brain is telling me 'why are you buying this?' The CPU is nearly FOUR times as fast in benchmarking, and the graphics card twice as fast.....what would I do with all that?

Then I look at the i3 and think:blarg

I'd like to see what Blender could do with all that though.......:twisted

[zero3growlithe]

He he, yeah, such power is really hard to use if u'r not playing any stuffed-with-graphics super games or raytracing a movie or complicated scene xD

Anyway, 2 news for modelers:
- now flying on tracks with mag-strips is available (even if up-side down or loop or what else u can imagine... of course it needs some tweaking but it's good enough right now to this simple things :P)

Also, I'll bring back to life three tracks: "Pashtun Wheels", "Corridon 6" and "Alphard" as they're a good tracks which were just done with wrong software... that makes: 7 tracks where 3 is not completed and 3 has to be remodeled and 1 is playable.

[docfo4r]

Awesome, zero!!

[Oryx Crake]

indeed good job zero :) a question for you about that could I send you my basin park models to test out in the game to debug them? you know before all the textures and stuff is done and they become very hard to change?

[BrunoDG]

Hi, everyone! I was passing by and I saw this topic.
Are you still wanting people for helping on programming stuff? 'cause I really want to help and build a new WipEout game with you!

[Xpand]

Welp, yeah... Do you know Java and/or C#? It's also recomended some experience with unity 3D's language.
I sure bet that zero would like some help on the programming, since he's the one who's basically programing the whole game. I can assist on some things but I only know a bit of C/C++, which can't be used on the Unity compiler, so I'm just limited to make the 3D models. Just ask zero3growlithe and he'll probably give you a sitrep on the game's current state.

@zero3growlithe: That's really cool! I guess I can make the drop track I have in mind with no problems!

OK, an update on who's working/helping on the game (If I forget someone please tell me!)
This list is based on stuff that we are almost certain that we'll use on the game at some point i.e. useful things.
This is good to maintain because of the credits when we finish the game.

Active builders (Puts stuff into the actual game).

Zero3growlithe;
Xpand;
OryxCrake;

Creative assistance (ideas for designs, background stories, track/team description, Logos, etc):
F.E.I.S.A.R.
feisar_rocket
docfo4r
TypeProton
Amaroq Dricaldari (I'm still waiting for those teams) ;)

Programing assistance:
Rotational_Aspect
BrunoDG (Let's see what you can come up with) :)

[BrunoDG]

Well, I know just the basics of Java, and I'm trying to learn C# on my own.
You're using Unity? Cool, I'm trying to learn it too.
So I guess I'm just fresh meat on that stuff. Well, it'll surely be a nice challenge!

One question: You put everything here on this topic or do you have some sort of subversion repository or github for this project?
And how will I be able to keep in contact with the other programmer, I mean, with @zero3growlithe?

[zero3growlithe]

Skype (as Zero3Growlithe), Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/damian.koscielny.7), Google + (https://plus.google.com/u/0/106083964399065727105/posts), this thread :) Do you have any projects to look at or u'r just starting out? Cos I can always help :g (of course with JavaScript (UnityScript), but with C# I'll probably ask you :P)
@Oryx: Yeah, sure :)

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Dunno,why,I feel like just wanting to give feedback/shoot down ideas.

New Team Idea;
Name: [UNDECIDED]
This corporation specializes in the development of androids, crash-test-dummies, and safety systems. They recently formed an AG team, in an attempt to prove that Androids were equally good if not superior AG pilots, and that the death tolls of the sport would be greatly reduced. The team didn't start competing until the FX200, but have sponsored the FX150 and F9000. Due to their high success rate, they have been qualified for the FX300, but wether or not they will actually participate is unknown (hint: they didn't).
Eh..I believe that this game is FX-150/FX-200,so you may want to edit the story. Also,androids as pilots? At least Paul Cheung and Alex Reece(if you don't know them,they were pilots of EG-r,and their humanity is very much doubted) were at least part human,but androids? As pilots? For a zero-pilot-death experience? Where is the fun in that? The ship design standards will not improve,rules and regulations will not improve,safety standards will not improve,the whole sport won't improve.

[Rotational_aspect]

For anyone using Blender, a very easy way to antigravity that goes round loop, twists etc is with a distance constraint and use servo motion. Its can also be done via Python too.

Although most people here are using Unity, if anyone wants a demo .Blend with the above just ask.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I have made some concept sketches of the side and plan views of a ship/craft that is planned as the "Airbraker" craft that has airbrakes as the primary form of steering,and normal steering as the secondary steering.

Concept #1,with description (http://feisar-csy.deviantart.com/art/Airbraker-Craft-Concept-1-304868323)(Picture only) (http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/149/e/d/airbraker_craft_concept__1_by_feisar_csy-d51idwj.jpg)

Concept#1 on graph paper,with description (http://feisar-csy.deviantart.com/art/Airbraker-Craft-Concept-1-Graph-Paper-304868981)(Picture only) (http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/149/6/7/airbraker_craft_concept__1__graph_paper__by_feisar _csy-d51ieet.jpg)

Concept #2 with description (http://feisar-csy.deviantart.com/art/Airbraker-Craft-Concept-2-304869542)(Picture only) (http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/149/4/a/airbraker_craft_concept__2_by_feisar_csy-d51ieue.jpg)

I'd like some critique,please,thank you very much in advance

[Xpand]

Saw that on DA... Check it out... I left some suggestions there to make it more feasable.

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Saw comment on concept number 2. What about number one?

[Rotational_aspect]

If I was being honest, the design is far to plain to comment on at the minute. The ship has no real shape other than a box in profile as well as from above.

I would suggest (owing to the general layout) take some cues from F1 cars, cockpits and spoilers and mix that in and revise the design.

Sorry if that's a bit negative, to me your designs are solid starts but need much more work.

[zero3growlithe]

I had some free time so i thought of this damn guy in Starfox game who is annoying you with words: "Do a barrel roll!"... well, ok, now i can do this barrel roll u'r asking for in SSGX ;)

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Dunno why, I feel like just wanting to give feedback/shoot down ideas.

Eh..I believe that this game is FX-150/FX-200,so you may want to edit the story. Also,androids as pilots? At least Paul Cheung and Alex Reece(if you don't know them,they were pilots of EG-r,and their humanity is very much doubted) were at least part human,but androids? As pilots? For a zero-pilot-death experience? Where is the fun in that? The ship design standards will not improve,rules and regulations will not improve,safety standards will not improve,the whole sport won't improve.

They aren't unlocked until the FX-200
Also, nobody wants to buy any of their stuff, so that is one of the reasons they quit before the FX-300


Hi, everyone! I was passing by and I saw this topic.
Are you still wanting people for helping on programming stuff? 'cause I really want to help and build a new WipEout game with you!

Let's get ready to make some science!


Amaroq Dricaldari (I'm still waiting for those teams) ;)

I just came up with one. Remember? The team with android pilots?

P.S.: Does anyone own Portal 2? Because I made a BUNCH of test chambers for it: http://steamcommunity.com/id/amaroqthewolf/myworkshopfiles/

[TypeProton]

Also, I'll bring back to life three tracks: "Pashtun Wheels", "Corridon 6" and "Alphard" as they're a good tracks which were just done with wrong software... that makes: 7 tracks where 3 is not completed and 3 has to be remodeled and 1 is playable.
Requesting track summary sir. So I can make track logo in free time.

@Entire SGX team : Anything else I can help with? I'm quite free right now.
Oh yes I forgot! The adverts!! Dx

[BrunoDG]

Do you have any projects to look at or u'r just starting out?

I'm starting out with C# dev, my last experiences were with Objective-C, C/C++ and Python.

Oh, and Amaroq and F.E.I.S.A.R., I had another team idea, hope you like it:

Team Name: [BreeTech]
Country: [South Korea]

"The Korean Dream Factory", as what they are called, are hungry for victory in this season! An inspiring growth in the nanotech market made this korean company dream higher as they started sponsoring the F9000. After the 2nd rise of the Anti-Gravity League, they saw the perfect chance to get into the FX150 championship but unfortunately, for the mass disapointment of the South Korean Nation, no. 1 pilot, the "Star Saint", Syoung Jung-Moon, suffered severe injuries and had to be immediately retired of the track.
People thought he'd die for the severity of the injuries, but Breetech granted that the "Star Saint" would still be running on the FX200, and this time, they'd crush all their rivals on the tracks. Guess that we'll have to wait and see...

P.S.: Do you want someone to choose something for the bgm or make an original bgm? I think I can help with something =D

[Rotational_aspect]

Nice, Zero! How did you implement it? I assume you have the roll as an animation, and use a ray to work out if the animation has finished playing before the ship is on the ground again.

[zero3growlithe]

Nope, i didn't bother with animation, my script just rotates the ship by 360 degrees from its actual rotation and when no collision was detected while rolling then it waits for the ship to fall on track and boosts it from there :)

[Rotational_aspect]

So the rotation does not mess up any of the vector maths used for AI navigation? (This assumes AI also barrel-roll).

But sounds simple and it works.....result!

[zero3growlithe]

You guys want them to barrel roll on highest difficulty? Ok, no problem :P As for rotation issue, no it does not mess it up cos ships are not barrel rolling on mag-strips so i can rotate them on world-y-axis and steering don't interfere with ship's local-z-axis rotation xd
Still i have to get rid of some issues that camera has while rolling...

EDIT: Anyone is willing to test barrel rolls, mag-strips and track alligning? https://rapidshare.com/files/2920865818/Test.rar
note: To get to the other side of jumps you have to perform a barrel roll, to restart use "r", to reset ship's bank use "h", camera is still in debugging (and yes, ship is rotating properly but camera makes it look different), track is a little f** up in one place on mag-strips as i haven't selected all faces on the end of it and ship jumps a little. Enjoy or wait until I'll upload version with side shifts which i'll make if I'll want to xd

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

So I've tried to redo the Airbraker ship.

Airbraker ship concept #3 with description (http://feisar-csy.deviantart.com/art/Airbraker-Craft-Concept-3-305082852)(picture only) (http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/150/6/3/airbraker_craft_concept__3_by_feisar_csy-d51mzfo.jpg)
I have no idea how to draw intakes -.-'

Critique and comment,please.

[docfo4r]

The shapes become better but still, I have to say, it looks like some bricks put together. Try to make it more "round". I'm sure it'll be a good ship, just keep on working on it ;)

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

EDIT: Anyone is willing to test barrel rolls, mag-strips and track alligning? https://rapidshare.com/files/1734382143/TestMagStripsAndBarrelRolls.exe
The download does not...download.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

P.S.: Do you want someone to choose something for the bgm or make an original bgm? I think I can help with something =D

Do what Hellfire_WZ did with his WipEout: The Teams video. I think BreeTech deserves Cold Storage. What do you think?

[zero3growlithe]

Try now (it was downloading but i had to change it anyway because i've uploaded wrong file as always...)
https://rapidshare.com/files/2920865818/Test.rar

[Oryx Crake]

just a reminder lads and for those of you who haven't seen it yet we already have lots of teams, with models and designs even some quite far along in design that are most likely not gonna be in the game yet so the people doing 3d work are concentrating on tracks for the moment, if you do design a team though I'd suggest drawing out the ship, or better yet make a 3d model of it. that would save a lot of work for the ones doing 3d, but just to give you an idea: I have been working for a while... well rather I had been but it's been cut from the roster, for the foreseeable future, on a team called SAGE, it's quite far along the evolutionary line and still not very close to being in the game so when making a team make sure to design it as much and as far as you can or you're not really giving us much to work with ^^; follow F.e.i.s.a.r's example and design it with both plan and side view for one I'd also suggest making a paint scheme though as it's seriously draining to come up with many of them that don't conflict. 6199620662006201620262036204620562076208

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Try now (it was downloading but i had to change it anyway because i've uploaded wrong file as always...)
https://rapidshare.com/files/2920865818/Test.rar

Download parameters invalid - please try again later.
Ok...what to do...

[Rotational_aspect]

Just had a quick play, physics are coming along well, starting to get that WO vibe. I'm not a big fan of your method of BR though, it looks a bit strange since it is an instant roll with no secondary motion (i.e. its pure object translation with no animation at all).

But other than that, smoking!

[zero3growlithe]

@Aspect:
it is an instant roll with no secondary motionSecondary motion? What do you mean?
btw. Is ship is not falling too fast when in air?
@Feisar:
Ok...what to do...Change browser, turn off commercial killer software, reinstall system, change system, etc.

[Xpand]

The ship is falling way too fast. Sometimes drops way too quickly to land on the other side of the jump...

The roll feels kinda weird, like it looks like the ship has no moment of inertia... Are you using a rotation transform over time or a torque force to roll the ship?

But I like the system. For a smoother rotation you can use the circular motion equations: angle=initial angle+rotspeed*t+(1/2)*(angular acceleration*t^2) instead of just angle=(rotspeed*t) like you probably have; You can get the angular acceleration by using the Torque equation: T=angular_acceleration*I, where I is the moment of inertia of the ship. I can calculate the I for you since it depends on the models.

I'll make a few graphs for this. I'll consider the ships' mass below 1000kg.

Also, instead of using increased gravity to pull the ship down, you can make the thrust only work horizontally, i.e. multiply the vertical component of the thrust vector by 0 when the ship is in mid-air. You think you can make that?

EDIT: Here are some of the ships' longitudinal MOI (Kg.m^2):

SOLARIS C062 MOI
6.5702e+003

CERN MOI
1.5142e+004

AMPHITHERE D14 MOI
1.0869e+004

LOGOS MOI
7.5150e+003

HELIOS 1C MOI
6.8389e+003

I can make you a program to calculate this in C. All you have to input is the mass and width of the craft.

Ok here's the graphs for torque and acceleration:
6211

I calculated the torque from the pressure that the air puts on the airbrakes, that's why it varys with speed.
Equations used:
MOI= 1/3*M*L^2+M*(L/2)^2; (M=total mass; L=width)
F=0.4*(((v*sin(pi/6))/3.6).^2); (F=force on airbrakes; (v*sin(pi/6))/3.6= vertical component wind speed at fully deployed airbrakes in m/s; )
T=2*(F*R); (T=Torque; F=airbrake Force; R=L/2)
a=T/I; (a=angular_accel; I=MOI; T=Torque; )

[zero3growlithe]

ooookaaaaay... x_x I will work on it... but not now as I'm a bit busy with car licence exam which is... day after tommorow and short test which is tommorow...

[docfo4r]

btw. Is ship is not falling too fast when in air?


Maybe a little bit too fast right after the barrel roll. It feels like after the barrel roll it get's pushed down immediantly... Like this:
|air##
|------barrelroll
|--------------##
|-----------------#
|------------------#

It should be more like this:
|air##
|------barrelroll
|---------------#####
|----------------------###
|--------------------------#

Hope you get the idea ^^

And please fix the camera, otherwise ppl get motion sickness after performing a barrel roll xD But the ship movement itself is awesome and the controls feel great. Good job!

EDIT: Good luck on your drivers licence!!!

[Xpand]

LOL sorry...
Good luck on that!
I still have to get my drivers license too... Haven't been feeling like doing it, but it can be necessary some day....

Also I updated the post...
For now you can use one value of the MOI for all the ships instead of all those, just to test it. Then when you start to make diferent stats for each ship you can add the diferent MOIs to them...

[zero3growlithe]

Thanks! Anyway, as for SlipStream GX i'll probably rewrite most scripts (those main ones) and make them clean and smooth as baby's butt because they're damn hard to surf through and some things can be made better and simplier... that's damn much additional work to do but very useful. Idea from post 3 posts higher.

[Oryx Crake]

Best of luck with the license zero just make sure you're not suckered into becoming the designated driver for all your friends and family though (speaking from experience here) it kinda sucks.

and proton if you want you can add me on skype and we can do some collab on those ads!

[Rotational_aspect]

Good luck with your exam, Zero! Just as a joke, why not put the WipeOut 3 CD in your car as you do your exam? I'm sure your WipeOut piloting skills will serve you well.....just try not to barrel roll too many times;)

Just remember when pulling off- on Go! floor the accelerator!

Secondary motion is a term in animation that describes motion that happens as a consequence of primary animation- e.g. a car aerial / furry dice will wave around if a car stops suddenly. With the ship rotation, the cycle stops and starts at the same speed without any slower motion at the start or end.

[Xpand]

They aren't unlocked until the FX-200




I just came up with one. Remember? The team with android pilots?



Just having a description doesn't make it useful. To make a team you must have:
Name;
Description;
Model/Drawing, even if it is just a simple perspective view.

This also applies to F.E.I.S.A.R. I know you worked a lot on your ship, but you need to refine it even more if you want it to be used on the game. Try drawing original wipeout ships for practice. From there you can get the elements that will make up your new ship.

Sorry if I seem blunt when I say this, but even this being a community game things have to remain above a certain level of refinement.
I hope you understand that. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

[BrunoDG]

Zero, good luck with your exam! And if anything goes wrong, do a barrel roll! :g

But now, seriously, can I take a look on the codes? maybe i can figure something out to help you in those issues.

And Amaroq, I kinda liked the idea of putting some Cold Storage with BreeTech, but I was thinking more 'bout something like Electronic Micro Animal.
I mean, this song in particular. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzQ_V3wbIjE)

What do you think?

[TypeProton]

and proton if you want you can add me on skype and we can do some collab on those ads!

Will do that later. In 1st to 5th next month I'll be in China for a trip with my family. Might be good to get out of my comfort seat for a while.
@Zero : Good luck on the test!

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Does 3DS Max create trash polygons? I was playing Portal 2, and it was agging very badly even though nothing was going on. Then later, I was looking for one of my custom map files, but I clicked on the wrong folder and found all of the game's model files, all of which were made in 3DS Max.

[Xpand]

In 3Ds Max it all depends on the modeler. Only spline/nurbs based CADs (SU, Solidworks, Rhino, etc) are capable of creating trash polygons without the user's knowlegde.

[Xpand]

BTW zero I changed Cassandra's track scale and wall height. Try to use it as 1/1 scale now. Also, place the ships about 2.5 meters above the track:
http://www.mediafire.com/?d407wks6q7f1ln4

[Oryx Crake]

alright for those of you who are hungry for making a team this is pretty much what you need to do:

Name: Avatar
Origin: India
Story: whatever I haven't given this any thought whatsoever this is just a guide anyway.
Plan and side view with livery and logo: 6219

Optional extras which are greatly appreciated are 3d views like this: 6220

Hope that clears it up a little bit.

Had a bit of fun with it too XD again this is optional extras but it was a lot of fun: 6221

[Xpand]

@zero3growlithe: Use this cassandra.3ds instead http://www.mediafire.com/?96aev62vu8mr9th
The one I sent had an error. Also in this new one be careful of a floating part near the starting grid. Remove it.
Also I found optimized it to use the ships. You now have a wider track. Just use 1.1 in the track's scale (this for the ship scale=1).

Also new afterburners:
6222

It looks pretty neat in Unity's render engine too!

[zero3growlithe]

Ok, i'll take care of it today. And you can send me texture to those afterburners :)

[Xpand]

Yeah, I'll do it when I'm done with it.
By the way do you want me to put the afterburner model in all the ships or you have one afterburner model for all ships? Because this model is a bit complex. I'll send .3ds too.
Also, if you can, make sure the ships are floating at 2-3 meters, more or less.

[Oryx Crake]

Ok Zero I uploaded the basin park model online so I don't have to catch ya on skype to send it

https://rapidshare.com/files/907207925/Basin_park.3ds
(and in blender format in case the 3ds version wont work, which it usually doesn't when I export my models and send them to xpand)

https://rapidshare.com/files/1006042515/Basin_parktest.blend

[Xpand]

Ok Damian, here's the afterburner. Please follow the 3ds template for better results.
Don't make it conic or else it will look riddiculous. If you have to make your own, make the tip about 60-70% the size of the start of the afterburner.
In Unity's material make it "Unlit/Transparent". The targa file has the alpha channel, you don't need to worry about that.
6223

[zero3growlithe]

But now, seriously, can I take a look on the codes? maybe i can figure something out to help you in those issues.
@Bruno: Here are almost all codes I have (some short ones for rotating etc. are not here) xd Well, i suppose only FullShipController will be interesting you:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bynv55aACDzWdWtpNUtuci1qODQ (can you download them? cos it's my first time uploading something on google...)
@Oryx: Indeed your track in *.3ds format in Unity is damn f**** up , what is strange as Xpand's files are ok so I suppose something is wrong with your export options or 3DS Max version (maybe it's too old, i don't know as i don't know which version u'r using). Checking *.blend file in 6 min.
btw. In future try exporting models to *.fbx file :)

EDIT: Quick guide on how to select and reverse an object's normals in Blender, anyone? xd

Curio: Did you know that in Sony people are using Autodesk Maya to create 3D models for around 10 years now?

[Oryx Crake]

well you can use the lasso tool (ctrl+ left mouse button held down) to select any of what you're trying to get at, that is edges vertices or faces, in the mesh menu you have the option faces and you get another drop down menu with the option flip normals right near the top. (by the way you can lasso as many things as you like without having to change the command for deselection with lasso tool you use shift+ctrl+left mouse button

[zero3growlithe]

Okay, got the thing working, but i had to make it a little big though as you have to extrude walls which are not angled so ship won't fall off the track. Right now i'm going on a short walk but when I'll be back I'll write a short script which will respawn your ship in last known position which was on track if your ship is not where it's supposed to be. Then I'll send you demo so you can check your track. (quite interesting i must say :g)

[Rotational_aspect]

A bit late, but to reverse normals you go into EDIT mode (press tab). You will see three icons in the task bar (vertex, edge, face), select to select the bits you want via right click + shift, or use the lasso, or press A to select all the object. Now, you can press W (special menu) flip normals (or SHIFT F), or use the toolbar (press T to unhide/ hide it).

[Oryx Crake]

oh hey zero do you need me to re-export the basin park model in another format or was that the one you got to work?

[zero3growlithe]

Got this one working, anyway here's the link: https://rapidshare.com/files/2933584813/BasinParkTest.rar (try to make my respawn script suck balls <- it was supposed to sound cool xd)

[Oryx Crake]

Spectacular zero I'll debug but if you notice any big problems yourself just tell me aye? :)

I can see a few issues the track needs to be widened in a couple of places for example, btw what speed class was that? anyway yeah some changes need to be made and also just making sure you noticed the second track below it's green just like the rest of the surroundings but it runs along the ground, would be nice to be able to debug that one as well. hanging on your next post zero ^_^

Oh by the way to ease debugging I'm gonna name the corner in the cave corner 1 and then the corner before the climb closest to the water corner 2 so we all know what we're talking about(this would be in forward mode). Anyway basin park hill has taken a big step toward some form of completion :) cheers Zero

[zero3growlithe]

btw what speed class was that?
Around Mach1

if you notice any big problems yourself just tell me aye?
Okay

just making sure you noticed the second track below it's green just like the rest of the surroundings but it runs along the ground, would be nice to be able to debug that one as well
Well, this green track below is connected to the ground and I can't check it unless I'll be able to select track only and reverse its normals :|

[docfo4r]

I was also testing the track and noticed that it's super easy to fall off the track in the corners. The walls on the left and right of the track are kinda easy to fly over, is that your intention? If not, maybe make em higher or 90° to the track maybe...
Otherwise it feels like the walls won't stop you from flying off the track, it could be annoying to new people without practice.

[Xpand]

Around Mach1



What the... I thought we were making phantom class as the highest available? There will have to be special tracks for Mach 1... At least mine won't work. So that's why you keep putting the ships as miniatures...

[zero3growlithe]

No, I've put Mach 1 on this track because I've made it very big (scale parameter) and phantom was a little too slow to enjoy

[Oryx Crake]

for debugging purposes I'm not generally speaking against having a high top speed, especially since the track has to work in zone as well. also I think it'll look faster once we get some textures on it but for now I tend to agree with zero that even mach 1 doesn't feel overly fast.

Also I've created a design document for basin park hill (I'll make one for basin park once we start debugging that one as well.) Basin Park Hill Design concerns (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D-nBfJCzK02mzyxO1yAC_zV9qzwhlw_vgSzpY7ZKBpU/edit)

so I'd appreciate it if anyone who has any points would just put them into that document and I'll address the concerns in the model a.s.a.p. kthx :)

Also Zero should I flip all the normals so that you're seeing the back of them on the ground? O.o I mean I know almost nothing about how these things work, all I'm really doing is sculpting the envoirnment after all so I'm unsure of how these things work for the purposes of making them work in game.

[zero3growlithe]

Well, i don't know how to define 'normals' so a quick example should solve this: we have a simple poligon plane, in 3d modelling software you can see it from both sides, but in Unity (game engine) you'll see it only from one side which normals are pointing. heh
If possible detach track from green hills, if it isn't, i'll do it myself then, in Maya.

[docfo4r]

@Oryx: When I fell off the track, I sometimes got respawned next to the track, so I fell off again. Only boost accelerating while respawning brought me back onto the track. Should this issue also be in your document? I added it, but maybe it's a general problem. Feel free to delete the line if that's the case.

[zero3growlithe]

@Oryx: When I fell off the track, I sometimes got respawned next to the track, so I fell off again. Only boost accelerating while respawning brought me back onto the track. Should this issue also be in your document? I added it, but maybe it's a general problem. Feel free to delete the line if that's the case.
Because it's just a simple portable respawn script I've written in couple minutes... it won't be used in game.
btw. This track which was in barrel roll demo was my 'Delcor City' in progress and here's an update: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jRnrvyn4q5X4a26sM0VBRNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink (it will be a night ride track)

[docfo4r]

Night ride through a city? Awesoooome!!!!!! I am looking for some nice lighting then, great to have such a track!
But I think you have to improve the section with that 3 jumps, it's pretty tricky actually and can't be mastered without using boost and/or barrel roll if I am correct.

[Xpand]

Looks good but I think you should add a subsurf modifier to the track to smooth the corners...

[docfo4r]

And I guess you will also replace the sky later on ;)

[BrunoDG]

Thanks, Zero! I got them! I'll take a look at FullShipController and I'll check what i can do from here!

[zero3growlithe]

Some night photos of Delcor City: https://picasaweb.google.com/106083964399065727105/DelcorCity?authuser=0&feat=directlink (texturing this track shouldn't be a problem as it will be dark in many places)
Note: There is maaaaany lights missing so it's a bit too dark right now :g
btw. Those are in-game screenshots :P

[docfo4r]

This is going to be an awesome track, zero. I love the sky! Can't wait to see the further progress. Oh but I hope you will add some lights to the windows buildings or rooftops aswell ;)

[zero3growlithe]

@Xpand: I'm trying to figure out on how to make gravity work correctly in terms of physicsand i don't really know how in case of so called momentum (?) of ship after jumping of some jump... maybe some tips on how to do it :d I suck at physics cos it takes too much time to learn something and remember it, especially when it is boring for me xd

@Docfo4r: Yeah, it is supposed to be stuffed with lights when completed :)

[Xpand]

Ok, the momentum of an object is what defines the quantity of motion that object has. It's a vector, so it has magnitude and direction. It's expressed as p=m.v in which "m" is the mass of the object and "v" is the velocity of the object (also a vector). The relation of that with jumping is that the more momentum an object has the longer it jumps if it's launched from a ramp. So you can see that it's not only the magnitude of the velocity (speed) that counts. The mass of the ship also counts for the length of the jump, but not for the height.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum
You can relate the momentum to force through Newton's second law of motion with F=dp/dt, where the resultant force vector is the derivative of the momentum to time.

I just don't understand how you want to get gravity from this since the airborne time doesn't depend on the mass nor the horizontal speed.
I thought that Unity had an internal bullet physics engine with active gravity.

If what you need is the gravitic acceleration, then that's g=9.807 m/s^2

In another note you can also use the momentum to determinate collision dynamics:

dpsys=0 The variation of the system's momentum is zero ALWAYS (only if you DON'T have a variation in mass, which we do because ships burn fuel, but that makes things much more complicated).

Then if you have two ships colliding, the system's momentum will be

pinitial=pfinal (remember, always a vector)
Ship1 and ship2

p1i+p2i=p1f+p2f

m1.v1i+m2.v2i=m1.v1f+m2.v2f (velocity is a vector)
(v is velocity and m is mass)
This is for elastic collisions, which are the ones we want.
The problem is that I didn't consider drag here, so the ships would just bounce around the track's walls after they hit...

[zero3growlithe]

I thought that Unity had an internal bullet physics engine with active gravity.
Actually there is almost nothing left for unity's physics engine from me cos:
1. An body dropped in space with gravity turned on does not accelerate as it is supposed to, even if you increase its mass it will fall as fast as a body with smaller mass...
2. Everything happens as if it was in slow motion xd
3. It feels really unstable when body is moving high speed, collisions are really... strange and as you can sometimes notice colliders hit invisible corners on flat surfaces :|

If I wouldn't have modified it a little by applying forces myself then this physics and other stuff that is right now (well, my actual project state is much different than previous versions xd) would look like :turd and it would feel like :turd xd

Anyway, thanks for some lesson, I'll try to translate it somehow to Unity script... maybe I'll even rise my grade from physics a bit :g

[Xpand]

A body's mass doesn't affect the speed of fall. All objects under the same gravitational field experience the same acceleration, independent on the mass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C5_dOEyAfk

Actually, through Newton's second law of motion (Yep, Newton was a genius... His stuff fits almost everything):
F=m.a
P=m.a (where P is the weight and the only force acting on the body)
m.g=m.a (the masses cancel each other out)
g=a (the only acceleration the body is subjected to is the gravitic acceleration, the masses don't affect the variation of speed during the drop)

And that looks slow motion because you dropped the object from a big height. Try putting a cube 10 meters above a plane and see the time it takes to colide with the plane. According to my calculations it should take about 1.43 seconds. If at 100 meters: 4.52 seconds.
Don't forget when the ships jump they have a part of the thrust force going upwards, therefore it makes it fly a lot longer, depending if the force is too strong or too weak...

[Rotational_aspect]

In Blender, you can increase the accuracy of the physics engine, can something in Unity do this?

It may solve your problems as I suspect the object is moving faster than the engine can currently compute. The only drawback will be it will require more CPU time (not a problem for your i7!)

[docfo4r]

Cipher just had a great idea in the Wipeout HD Bling Brigade thread:


and yaeh, wipeout should actually take the photo when there's a photo finish :D
...I am wondering, would it be possible to program that for SSGX? So it would take and save a picture from a spectators view if there is, say less than half a second between the first and the second who finishes the race. And if you don't want that, you can uncheck that feature in the options menu, maybe...

[zero3growlithe]

@Docfo4r: Well, I've seen somewhere how i can take pictures and save them on disk in Unity so I think it would be possible :)

@Xpand: Ok, I know something about gravity but now I have this damn problem on how to make ship align itself to be parallel to track's surface cos my previous script was all about changing ship's transform using raycasts and that was very unstable and slow working :| I have something on mind but I need to know if it is possible to calculate direction from one rotation to another, for example: I have one object (object's position = ship position) which is always parallel to the track (still using rays cos using face normal which was under ship worked bad and I don't f****** know whyyyyyy!) and I have ship on which I want to apply torque force in direction which is headed to "center" of rotation... u know what I mean?

@Aspect: Yeah, I've posted a solution to this problem tens of pages back :P

[Xpand]

@zero3growlithe: Let me just finish my final test tomorrow (I still have exams, though) and I'll get back to you with that. For now I see no way around using raycasts to align the ship to the track's normal. You can probably add an invisible plane below the ship and make its normal always parallel to the track's face normal at that point.

[zero3growlithe]

Ok, take your time and pass those exams :) Hopefully I'll figure out something by myself xd

[TypeProton]

Still discussing techies stuff eh?
Yeah, I'm back. If anyone here needs help designing just call me. :)

[zero3growlithe]

@Xpand: Ok, I figured it out (so easy...) :) Good luck on exams btw :D

[Rotational_aspect]

Zero: how did you fix your problem?

[zero3growlithe]

Substract other rotation from your rotation and you have direction xd I thought of this in school so if it won't work as it should then I have another idea where i'll just check which direction should i rotate in on single axes.
EDIT: Lol, now I've come to a conclusion that it is not the best idea and use something else instead... jezze, programming is f'kin hard but damn I like it xd Can't help it...

[Rotational_aspect]

Programming and scripting are fun, its just it comes with frustration too! I kind of know what I'm doing, but its slow going sometimes. Just right now I have adapted the AI ship node tracking system to make a vulcan cannon that has a turret that tracks separately to the barrel (think of a tank turret and gun) and it was a eureka moment!

I am trying to think of a solution to your problem, but to be honest the raycast method is the only one I can think of, as it should return the surface normal and aligning to that.

[zero3growlithe]

Okay, now I'm stabilizing ship using angle gathered using rays but now I have a problem of this kind: objects rotation is in compartment of 0 - 360 degrees, right? So when rotating my ship forward, for example from 0 to 20 degrees, then there is no problem as I can use Mathf.Lerp to smoothly interpolate rotation of ship to this angle... but if I have to rotate it back from 20 to 330 degrees then this function will interpolate this value from 20 to 330 like this: 22,36,78, and not like this: 20,9,2,359,330... that's the problem :|...
Anyway, programming is going slow as we have a nice weather outside and it's not good to lose it :) And the eeend of schoooool iiiiis coming up....

[Xpand]

Why don't you use 20 and -20 degrees?
Also make sure you're using a degree based system. If not multiply the angle by (pi/180) to put it as radians.

[zero3growlithe]

Why don't you use 20 and -20 degrees?
Cos localEulerAngles don't come with such possibilities and I have to operate on them... (http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/183603/convert-quaternion-to-eulerangles.html)

[Rotational_aspect]

I'm not sure if this is useful to you:

Within Blender you can use material physics that allow levitation. One side-effect is that ships auto-align while within this field.

I have made a quick example. Press the right cursor key to rotate the 'ship' as it falls...when it hits the field it auto aligns back to normal, automatically. This works for any axis too.

Does Unity do this?

[zero3growlithe]

O______________________________O

Nope... I don't think i've seen something like this :<

[Rotational_aspect]

How about this approach?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/31671-floating-a-object-on-water

[zero3growlithe]

Well, I'm using this method (at least simillar) for gravity, yeah, but we were talking about stabilizing ship to be parallel to track if my memory is not wrong xd Anyway, thanks for helping me :)
I know one thing... this is freakin blowing my mind more than problem with random race start enemy positioning, that's for sure •.•
Anyone up to look at this wall of text called script? xd
6225
Generally... it works same as simple "transform.one = transform.two" thing... that means I've achieved nothing new xD

[BrunoDG]

I'm trying to see if i can figure out with something on the Unity's physics engine to shift the gravity variable, but it doesn't have anything.

I don't know if it would work, but have you already tried to change the gravity variable? Like dropping it to 1/2 or 7/8 of it's current value?

[zero3growlithe]

Edit -> Project -> Physics -> Gravity as (0,-9.81,0) change to anything you need.

EDIT: Thanks to Game programmer from Ubisoft I've figured out how to fix my problem with stabilizing ship on x-axis :D
EDIT2: Or not...

[Rotational_aspect]

Have you tried using two rays (one front of ship, the other the back) and then taking an average?

[Xpand]

I still think linking the ship to a planar surface and then align that surface's normal with the track's surface normal would be easier because you would only need one ray for that and there would be less margin of error...

[Rotational_aspect]

True, but I saw a problem with this approach in Blender where the alignment would snap to the normal, so unless the track had many polygons making up its topography then you will see the tracking object jolt from one alignment to the next, rather than smoothly interpolating it. One ray would be best from a pure efficiency standpoint, but then getting it working is the first priority.

EDIT> This is not Unity though, so the rules may be different,

But, I understand Zeros pain. You think you have something done, and a minute later it all goes bang. Currently I am trying to create and delete recursive child objects via references. My brain is on fire.....

[feisar rocket]

I'm sure nobody remembers me at this point. But blame school and what not.

Shamar had to draw some art of concept... AGAIN! This time I made sure to take the pictures as soon as I was done. The last one was rushed so...

[zero3growlithe]

@Feisar: As for me it looks nice :D Are you going to finish it and add some more details to so it can be made in 3D?
@Aspect: Avarage from rays? My latest beta pf SSGX used about 12th version of this type of solution for alligning and next one is going to use 13th which I'll write... tommorow, yeah, cos I got everything done in school what had to be done, ahahah ^^
@Xpand: I've f***** this method too already xd It worked like potatos used as batteries...

[Xpand]

@feisar: Cool! I see bits of Chenghou project in that? Or is it just me?

Yeah I've been busy with exams too... All my recreational activities have crawled to a halt...

[feisar rocket]

Yeah, I'll try to add more details. I'll try starting another one also. Well, keyword <try>. School is coming into my way more often nowadays, so I'm playing with my time.

Hmm, what additions have I missed? Many? (got little homework this weekend, I'll be on more)

[zero3growlithe]

@Feisar: When do you have holidays? Mine's is coming in 29th June :P

btw. Subject of ship alignment is closed :) Hopefully you guys will see my new track and SSGX (with all track/ship updates) uploaded as demo in less than month xd

[feisar rocket]

Same the 29th!
Which one do I add detail to?

P.S. On the 4th picture, on a pillar there's japanese characters. Tatakai (fight, battle, war)A poster that says <HIGHER THAN THE SUN>
I'll add more... I hope
P.S.S. Shamar now has skype, he'll add people cause his list is pretty empty. shamarski.simon is the name

[Killercrusher232]

I'm back (with a vengeance). What's new?

[Rotational_aspect]

Just perfected my ship creation script! Now I can create buttons that generate ships and weapons together. Its a big step towards getting my UI done.

And Zero now hates the word 'orientation'. Any mention of it results in a Quake pulse being sent to the poster who writes it.....;) Er, hang on....I hear a rumbling sound....!

[zero3growlithe]

... that's just me running toward you with red eyes and head oriented like bull running toward his pray xd
Well, i've already resolved this issue so now just don't use word 'history' as i'm in danger from this subject... gotta pass it today for sure as I'm lock'n'loaded with knowledge :>

btw. I want to see how does your script works :D I'm really curious how it works :P

[Xpand]

Two more weeks... Just two more weeks.... HOLD ON

[Rotational_aspect]

Ok, here is the basics for the script:

There are buttons that when pressed send messages that create the object in the message: so for example, a message that says square will spawn a ship called square. This is done for all parts (i.e. one button will send several messages that generate the ship, weapons and other bits)- but to get around a 'design feature' I also create a 6dof joint between the ship and weapon (also done at creation time), so that the mass of the weapon is calculated when the ship races (so the weapons weigh down the ships until they are ejected).

At the same time, the button also sends a message to destroy any existing objects (so by pressing several times you do not get several copies of ships). This is done by assigning each ship an ID at creation time and when a ship receives a self destruct message with a number that matches its ID, it ends itself.

The best bit is that none of the script actually calls any objects directly (no dependencies), so I could in theory have an unlimited set of buttons that generate any combination of ship and weapon from the pool of available parts. All I need to do is type the ship / weapons name into a message sensor.

[feisar rocket]

I have today to do something, then im out till the 29th. Freedom! ... for a bit :/

[zero3growlithe]

The best bit is that none of the script actually calls any objects directly (no dependencies), so I could in theory have an unlimited set of buttons that generate any combination of ship and weapon from the pool of available parts. All I need to do is type the ship / weapons name into a message sensor.
Mmmm, i don't quite understand this bit, by 'none script is calling any objects directly' you mean every object created by this script is checking itself if its ID is selected in 'creation' script?

[Rotational_aspect]

Sorry, its a bit difficult to explain, but what I meant was that at no point in the script do I directly reference an object by its object name, e.g. ship_1. Instead, I use a type of list comprehension to sift through the scene and let the code do the object identification itself.

But yes, your guess is correct. Each object has a unique integer number assigned to it, and it self checks to make sure the code generated message matches its own ID: for example:

Button is pressed
Button assigns its property values to the message, generates a message with the syntax 'End' as a subject and '1' as the body of the message
Message End1 is sent; no previous object with this integer is present
Ship_1 is assigned integer 1 at creation
Ship_weapon is assigned

Button is pressed again
Button assigns its property values to the message, generates a message with the syntax 'End' as a subject and '1' as the body of the message
Message End1 is sent; the previous Ship_1 is present, since End1 has the integer 1 it matches its ID, ends itself.
Ship_1 is assigned integer 1 at creation
Ship_weapon is assigned

.....and so on.

It means the code is pretty much modular, and I could easily reuse it for future projects.

[Xpand]

Ok, here is the basics for the script:

There are buttons that when pressed send messages that create the object in the message: so for example, a message that says square will spawn a ship called square. This is done for all parts (i.e. one button will send several messages that generate the ship, weapons and other bits)
At the same time, the button also sends a message to destroy any existing objects (so by pressing several times you do not get several copies of ships). This is done by assigning each ship an ID at creation time and when a ship receives a self destruct message with a number that matches its ID, it ends itself.

The best bit is that none of the script actually calls any objects directly (no dependencies), so I could in theory have an unlimited set of buttons that generate any combination of ship and weapon from the pool of available parts. All I need to do is type the ship / weapons name into a message sensor.

This is what I wanted to achieve in order to make the game moddable: Make a script that links a selected ship in the position of a certain controlable object (be it an empty object or even a cube). The ships would be saved as separate folders with all the needed data inside: Performance, Textures and 3D model. Then having a menu list that refreshes everytime we add a new ship. That is, it searches inside the ship's folder for that .txt or .cfg file that tells the ship's properties.
Here's the example of FS:
6236

I already did something similar that reads the performance statuses of the ships:
6237

Here's the code:


#include <sstream>
#include <fstream>
#include <stdio.h>

using namespace std;

int main()
{

int speed;
int shield;
int thrust;
int turning;
char name[80];
FILE *fp;
fp=fopen("performance.txt", "r");
fscanf(fp, "%s\n%d\n%d\n%d\n%d", name, &speed, &shield, &thrust, &turning);

fclose(fp);
printf("name=%s\nspeed=%d\nshield=%d\nthrust=%d\nturning=% d\n", name, speed, shield, thrust, turning);





getchar();


}

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Any teams still need someone to write a history for them?

[TypeProton]

Any teams still need someone to write a history for them?

Search Takul/END Racing Initiative in the forum then.
Takul : Offspring of Goteki45. Ex-employee going under different names. Retaining high-thrust heavy-shielding.
END : Another fan turned pro. They're similar to Fusion's Van-Uber but not too far from using weapons. (Retaining old AG racing wipes, they said.) Stats are balanced. (Was going for Harimau but since we have it's expy, might just go for AG-SYS or Mirage instead.)

[docfo4r]

Am back from another week of school.

First of all, I could go crazy as I saw your code, Xpand. Nothing about your code, of course :) But at work I am also programming with C and actually I can read your code and know what's going on. So I could possibly help you guys out coding aswell. But I don't have that much experience in C. You guys are all way ahead of me, ARGH!!! I guess I am no help in that one^^

While I was at school [my friends and I are always talking about Wipeout^^] I got an idea for another weapon. Well, it's more like a pick-up and might be not so easy to code but maybe it's a cool idea...
I call it the "Phantomizer".
It's main function is to work like a shield. But instead of shielding your ship, the Phantomizer creates a visual copy of your ship on the track travelling along like being on autopilot. The enemies will think that this is your ship and aim for it. But in reality, your real ship turned invisible for AI & other players for a moment and can't be found by aiming systems [aiming systems aim for the hologram]. Of course this effect lasts only for a little while [maybe as long as a shield would last].

I think this needs some coding work, I know. But I personally like this idea, what do you guys think?

[Xpand]

Maybe this makes it more clear:


#include <sstream>
#include <fstream>
#include <stdio.h>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
//variables to be read
int speed;
int shield;
int thrust;
int turning;
char name[80];

FILE *fp; //fp is a file

fp=fopen("performance.txt", "r"); //Open text file called "performance" for reading only ("r")

fscanf(fp, "%s\n%d\n%d\n%d\n%d", name, &speed, &shield, &thrust, &turning); //scan text file for values and save them in the predefined variables name, speed, shield, thrust and turning

fclose(fp); //close text file


printf("name=%s\nspeed=%d\nshield=%d\nthrust=%d\nturning=% d\n", name, speed, shield, thrust, turning); //print retrieved data on screen

getchar(); //wait for user input to close the program


}


The performace text file looks like this:



Solaris_C062 //name

10 //speed

6 //shield

4 //thrust

9 //turning


Those comment parts aren't really there because the program can't ignore them.
Of course it can have way more variables, such as weight, CG position, MOI, etc... To use in simulator mode.

[zero3growlithe]

I've just spend some time to learn: how to read/write files in Unity after I saw posts above, so probably we will see mentioned some pages back "Save" feature in SSGX in near future :P (I expected it to be harder I must say xd)

btw. My "HUD Design fight" is still in progress xD
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9dqsnVt6s8HTY7oxLpZN2NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink (it's not finished yet)

[docfo4r]

Wohoooo that looks awesome!!! I'd just use another font for the yellow numbers, one that makes them look more digital.

Keep up the good work!

@Xpand, thx for the comments! I think we should also have some kind of coding conventions, like creating comments about whats going on in the SSGX code so it's easier for the coders to patch/mod in the future.

[zero3growlithe]

Mmmm, digital font would look a bit childish imo so I'll keep this one as this HUD was made to fit it almost perfectly :)
btw. Here's completed one although "selected weapon" indicator is missing cos we don't have weapon list ready so I'll add it later: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5f2gFhuFiLpSwWR559PfkNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink (zoom in to see all details I've put xD)

[docfo4r]

Hmmm alright, convinced me. Looks awesome anyway!

[Rotational_aspect]

Zero: are you going for a more F-Zero GX style HUD?

[zero3growlithe]

No, that's my style, no copying and I don't even know how F-Zero's HUD looks like...
EDIT: Now I know, aaaaaand... where is similarity to my HUD?
EDIT2: Oh **** there is no such thing in Unity as GUITexture Alpha Cut-Off?! Ayfkm!? What do I do now? How do I make this damn HUD to fit every screen now?.... this sucks... oh, and what about using text writing features?! Noooooooo! I'm going to break :€

[Xpand]

tecnically it should fit all resolutions provided that it is drawn in the max resolution. How are you placing the HUD? As a in-game object or as a visible 2D object script?

[Rotational_aspect]

I made a poor choice of words- what I meant was that the style seems more 'cartoony' (i.e F-Zero) and less like WipeOut which I found slightly surprising since it does not really match stylistically with the main menu that I have seen. Not really my cup of tea, but its well done and looks professional. And I did not mean to insinuate that you were copying anything.

[zero3growlithe]

As in-game object because 2D texture doesn't have alpha cut-off feature and I can't make my energy bar work without it :| (why unity dev's didn't put this small thing into this software?...)
btw. Font placing problem resolved so just this resolution one is left which will take additional programming which will take me some time cos I'm lazy xd (but I know how to do it)

@Aspect: Ah, ok :d I don't really look at those things ("does not really match stylistically with the main menu") so I've made it that way :g

EDIT: Hey, should ships bank while turning on mag-strip? Cos I thought that maybe using some kind of mag locks and other nameless stuff it just don't have to bend to turn... xD
EDIT2: Another problem about HUD... it is susceptible to light, ambient light which I'm using for better effects and it doesn't have such thing like layerMask :|

[dreadofmondays]

Can I request you guys keep a link on the first post to the most updated version of the game released so far? I want to see what you've done but there are 191 pages in the thread and I don't know where to start. :/

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I know that this is a topic breaker,but...
I suppose that Mach One has gone out the window?

[Xpand]

If mach one is the speed that zero3growlithe put into Oryx's track testing then special tracks will have to be built for that speed class...

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

So...completely out the window,or perhaps in a post-release release as DLC?

[zero3growlithe]

@dreadofmondays: Newest one is here: https://rapidshare.com/files/3252641533/SSGX_Alpha.rar (RS is going to delete this file soon so u better hurry :g)
@FEISAR: Nobody said that :P

@Xpand: Can you send me the script that you've used to move airbreaks in SSGX (play animations)? It will save me some time and effort :P

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

May I ask:
How many percent of the game content is complete?

[zero3growlithe]

About 49,687572548393992927362037574928625373728% i think... no, wait, game content? Well that depends on how many tracks/ships we will have at the end.

[docfo4r]

Hahaha

I think he was talking about how many tracks, ships, weapons etc. are really completed yet.

EDIT: Nevermind, saw the word percent in his post

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

I ask because I want to know if there is space for Mach One Speed Class tracks.

[Xpand]

@Xpand: Can you send me the script that you've used to move airbreaks in SSGX (play animations)? It will save me some time and effort :P

I never managed to make it work correctly, but it works the same way as the ship banking script, only it should use the local object axis instead of the world object axis:



private var horizSpeed : float = 15;
private var horizAngle : float = 30;
private var turnSpeed : float = 120;
private var hBank : float = 0;

function Update(){
// Get input, rotate ship and restrict rotation angle
var horizAX = Input.GetAxis("Horizontal");

hBank = Mathf.Lerp(hBank, horizAX, Time.deltaTime * horizSpeed); // Restricted Z-Axis variable for read-only
var CurrentAngle = transform.localEulerAngles; // Variable for Z-Axis Angle in degrees
CurrentAngle.x = -hBank * horizAngle; // Change that variable
transform.localEulerAngles = CurrentAngle; // Set ships rotation according to this variable
}

[zero3growlithe]

Uh... huh... okay, If so then I'll write my own cos I thought you used your build-in animations to make it easier... even better because if I would've wanted to make ship break I wouldn't be able to move both air breaks together in same direction as I assume animation doesn't include such move? :P
btw. Unity doesn't import local rotation of objects so you need to make your own pivots inside Unity using scripting in order to do that i suppose :| (rotate air breaks correctly)

[Xpand]

Well making the pivots correctly is easy, just align then with the airbrake junction line with the fuselage. I have animated airbrakes on the 3D files, but you said they wouldn't work in Unity, so I deleted them, but it's easy to get them working again.

[zero3growlithe]

Well making the pivots correctly is easy, just align then with the airbrake junction line with the fuselage.
Erm, translate text above to JavaScript (C# will do too) then we can negotiate if it's so easy xd
Anyway, I got my brother convinced to get back to programming and maybe when I'll teach him some Unity works on SSGX will go faster :)

[Xpand]

No, lol, I was mentioning the easy part as rotating the pivots, not scripting the animation. I thought that the script would use the local pivot instead of the global pivot... I gotta start making some experiences on Java too, once I'm done with the exams...

[zero3growlithe]

I'm free for almost 2 months from now on so maybe i'll make a beta version of SSGX... or even demo during this time :) We'll see how it will go... disconnecting for some time now
Zero3Growlithe logged out: 25.06.12/22:33

[Xpand]

Before you go please use the 1.2 scale on cassandra. PLEEEEEASE!

[zero3growlithe]

............................. Unityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, this engine is so filled with bugs that it is a total pain in my ass! I've had so many problems with it but continued anyway. Now that's going too far, especially when you think about it's scripting language which is structural, not object, so it's much harder to work in it... I think about moving on to Unreal Engine 4 as I plan to work as a programmer in future and Unity is just not the way to go :| (yeah... bit late decision, half work behind me) I'll see if there is ANY possible solution for my actual problem although it seems to be an internal bug again and see if it's possible to continue...
Description of problem:
Because there is no such thing as "2D Texture Alpha Cut-Off" I had to make some quads on which I've placed textures I've made earlier, ok but without ("dynamic text")? it's useless so I came up with "Text Mesh" thing which seemed to be what I needed... and here comes my **** problem: When I type something into the text box it will appear normally and everything is ok, but just press the play button and your text mesh is not showing anything... now press play button again and what you see? Matrix! Literally, like in NES game xd Now when you type some text again after you erase everything it works again... Comment: ?????????????????????? :?

btw. Unreal seems to be compatible, no, it IS compatible with SVN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Subversion) (or Version Control System, something like Git (http://git-scm.com/)) so we could really work together :)

[Rotational_aspect]

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles; have you reported the bug to the Unity developers / asked for help on any Unity boards? All programs have problems, even Unreal.

[zero3growlithe]

Nope, cos when moving through Unity forums I've seen words like: "Bug report has been already sent but no reply" many times :| Anyway, Unreal is something really unreal (got UDK already) :o As for SSGX, **** this problem, I'll just change my HUD a little and bypass this "Text Mesh" thing, done :)

[docfo4r]

Oh, I hope you can work this problem out and SSGX won't lack of your good work because of some Unity bugs.

I don't know about that stuff, would it be much work to move everything from Unity to Unreal? Will ship models and all the other stuff other people are working still be compatible?

[Rotational_aspect]

Racing games like Wipeout seem possible, just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KhZF0YuHOo&feature=youtu.be

It may be beneficial to move to Unreal if the bugs are a compelling enough reason to do so. If you are not planning to sell the game then this is another good reason too as Pro stuff in Unity costs money that is free in UDK.

[docfo4r]

Yeah Wipeout games are possible but as far as I understand it zero has some problems to get his ideas working in Unity [mainly the HUD?], I know that can be frustrating...

[Xpand]

I can start learning UDK next week. I'll be done with the exams by then.

[docfo4r]

Your guys' effort is awesome!!

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

............................. Unityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, this engine is so filled with bugs that it is a total pain in my ass! I've had so many problems with it but continued anyway. Now that's going too far, especially when you think about it's scripting language which is structural, not object, so it's much harder to work in it... I think about moving on to Unreal Engine 4 as I plan to work as a programmer in future and Unity is just not the way to go :| (yeah... bit late decision, half work behind me) I'll see if there is ANY possible solution for my actual problem although it seems to be an internal bug again and see if it's possible to continue...
Description of problem:
Because there is no such thing as "2D Texture Alpha Cut-Off" I had to make some quads on which I've placed textures I've made earlier, ok but without ("dynamic text")? it's useless so I came up with "Text Mesh" thing which seemed to be what I needed... and here comes my **** problem: When I type something into the text box it will appear normally and everything is ok, but just press the play button and your text mesh is not showing anything... now press play button again and what you see? Matrix! Literally, like in NES game xd Now when you type some text again after you erase everything it works again... Comment: ?????????????????????? :?

btw. Unreal seems to be compatible, no, it IS compatible with SVN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Subversion) (or Version Control System, something like Git (http://git-scm.com/)) so we could really work together :)

Unreal Engine 4? Are you sure you want a game that is Photo-Realistic but requires three high-end Graphics Cards to run at 30 frames per second?

[BrunoDG]

Sorry for disappearing for so much time guys, exams week and work are killing me! >.<
So, I saw something about Unreal Engine 4 and I think it's a good idea, indeed.
And @Xpand, do you know where to get some tutorials for learning how to program for this engine? I want to learn something 'bout it too.

Oh, and other thing: I remember that zero told me something about using C# to build some parts of his code. If possible, we could use the XNA framework for porting it into Xbox Live, can't we?

[Xpand]

I haven't started looking for tutorials yet, only next week (exams too). Well about the XNA, the game-engine based codes differ from SDK to SDK. I believe you can import the UDK C# codes into XNA, but they may not work as expected. They will probably need some work around the variables...

LOL 666th post... :g

[zero3growlithe]

@Xpand: Now u can't write anything cos devil will come to get you xD As for UDK, if you want to learn it then ok, 3 different versions of game shouldn't be a problem xD I'll finish SS in Unity and then without any pain I'll move to UDK too and ask you for help if needed :P

@Bruno: C# is much faster than JavaScript (UnityScript) although same performance can be achieved if well written. That's why I plan to check my code for unnecessary functions... someday... ok, today as I have nothing to do anyway except for skipping boring classes :g

[Xpand]

I won't make a diferent version of the game. I'll conduct my experiments here and feed the results onto your version since it's more advanced.

[Southern]

Hey guys, I got invited by a friend I know in the music production world to join in here. I have a background of playing all the WipEouts, so it's fair to say that I am a big fan, and I would be really interested in getting involved in an existing WipEout project.

Quite simply if there is something someone needs doing that is on the creative side rather than technical, I would love to help. My background probably means that I am more suited to music, vocals and sound effects than anything else but if I can help, someone pop me a message here.

If I could interject my thoughts about graphics engines as I can see this has been discussed lately. Unreal Engine 3 is the current release at the moment and although it is coming to the end of its life cycle, this isn't going to happen any time soon as it will be about two years before UE4 is released. This will also come with licensing issues, not to mention the requirement of powerful PCs to run. Just my 10 pence worth here.

[zero3growlithe]

Welcome onboard Southern :) Sound effects and music you say? Cool! We're a bit short on sound effects so if you could make explosions, wall hits, ship to ship, track surface hit, plasma, engine sound effects that would be awesome! Hope that's not much I'm asking you to do :g

[docfo4r]

Oh right, just noticed in the demo that the menu has sounds and everything is quiet as soon as the race starts^^

Welcome on board!

[Oryx Crake]

welcome here southern :) always good to see people show interest ^_^

[Xpand]

Hey there Southern! Glad to see you joined the team! :D You'll do just fine! We're like a big family, here! Hahahahaha

[Oryx Crake]

Aye we love we, we laugh, and we savagely beat each other over the head with our own arguments about what we think should be in. in the end we will get something awesome out of it :)

[zero3growlithe]

Does anyone know how to pick a font, change its width and save it back as another font without much effort? Cos I can't seem to find anything to make it real... thx in advance :)

[Oryx Crake]

you could probably open the font file in illustrator or something, export a picture file of it and stretch that file, then you should somehow be able to make it into a font file, though I'm unsure of the specifications of a font file of course.

[zero3growlithe]

Short history how turned out my attempt to change font width:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hell yeah!!! I've somehow managed to change their width :) Ok, so now into Unity... hmmm, shouldn't they be different?... eeeerm..... oh, after changing this option and it changed to my version, yaaaay! Hey, why it turned back into this unchanged one? Why this option that was working before is not working now?! Unity!!! WHYYYYY!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that's how I've been just f***** up again by Unity :) To be continued...

EDIT: Hah! I had to take this font again from system folder, open it with font editor and save it changed with the same name and put it into the same folder as other fonts I'm using (differently colored fonts).. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ^^:+ Sorry for another part of "Angry Zero" xd
EDIT2: Nevermind, it stopped working again after restarting Unity...
EDIT3: Eeeeh, Unity created itself a font file which was taken from system fonts folder and deleting it helped... lol
EDIT4: Uh huh, when compiled game uses properties of system font instead of properties of font that I've put in the folder I'm using font from...
EDIT5: Oh, now I've changed some things inside the font and now it's working xd

Anyway, small change log:
- game code is much faster than before
- physics is a bit tweaked but that's just because I'm still working on it...
- new HUD
- HUD is shaking on collision :P (strenght depends on collision strenght)

@Xpand: What do you think about this idea: When u'll be done with exams I'll send you the newest version of SSGX Project with "FullShipController" script full of comments so you'll know what is happening in there and tweak physics related parts as you wish and later you'll send a demo which we will test and comment/post suggestions about it so we will have a nice physics in SSGX?
@Aspect: If you want I can send it to you too so you can play with it too :g

[feisar rocket]

YO!

School's out so, I have 2 months with this "big family" here ;)

Meh, as all my intro's get read over quick :), let me get to the most asked question... from me;

What'd I miss and what should I do?

P.S. I see a new guy, sup

[Rotational_aspect]

Zero: sounds great, I'd love to do some testing for you!

[docfo4r]

Hey there.

I was thinking about creating some new & interesting race modes for Slipstream but it's really not so easy to think about something groundbreaking since we know about Zone, Eliminator, Detonator etc. already. Anyway, I wrote down a few ideas but since I don't know all of this is realistic to code, feel free to change the ideas or tell me it's nonsense :D

Wavebreaker
Multiplayer
Would be the first team-mode race for a Wipeout alike game. There are two teams on the track, team one starting a little ahead of team two. Team one is the "wave" and team two the "breakers". Basically the breakers just need to stop the wave. In detail that means that team wave wins if they complete 5 rounds or eliminate all breakers. Team breaker wins if they eliminate all guys from the wave-team or simply overtake all guys from the wave team.
Further on, there are no speed pads on the track and you won't get a turbo pickup. Team wave actually only gets dropable stuff like bombs and mines [and barriers??] and team breaker gets canons or rockets. Of course both of them can get shields. Oh and of course it is not possible for anyone to drive backwards [like if team wave managed it to get far infront, team breakers can't go backwards to wait for them]. If you go backwards or your speed stays under 10% for a certain time, your shield energy will decrease immediately.
I know the idea is in early state and I don't know if it's even possible to do this, but it's just an idea after all.

Training
Singleplayer
No AI, infinite rounds. The track has more contrast than the ambience, or the ambience is black&white or blurred. This mode is just for training on the track. Kinda like speed lap. Of course, this mode can't be used in campaigns aswell.

Double Race
Singleplayer, Multiplayer, Campaign
"Double race" instead of "single race". Half of the contenders are racing the track forward, the other half backwards. Of course it works only on tracks where both directions can be raced. This could be kinda interesting if you imagine a quake rolling up on you from infront because someone from the other half of the players shot it. Also there are speed pads for both directions of the track so if you race over a speed pad for the other direction, it actually slowes you down for a moment [just like in Wipeout].

Nightflighter
Singleplayer, Multiplayer, Campaign
Actually the opposite from "Training". Basically a normal race with AI, weapon & speed pads. The difference is that everything is much darker, the contrast between track and ambience is not so high and there are no ambient lights [also no lights on the track itself]. Of course you can still tell where the track is, it shouldn't be totally dark of course xD but you have to be familiar with the track after all cause you can't see so well. In fact the only real light is from explosions or from the engine. This video inspired me to the race mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wH51pcYGOQ

[zero3growlithe]

@Aspect: Okay, uploading now...
This version is stable one although there needs to be some adjustments added (especially stability related things). As for now engine fire changing is turned off as I plan to change it a bit, results screen is is not working as with HUD change, script has to be changed too. (that's probably not everything I wanted to say so I'll add something later)
Enough of this, now, to open the project you need newest version of Unity (gooogleee), when you have it installed go to project folder and find Assets/Pre-SetScenes/C-Distra+Cassandra.scene, here if you press play button you can play normally. Now open FullShipController in Assets folder and search for huge green noticeable text where you have function that controls anti-gravity. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask :g

Controls: "r" to restart, "x" to thrust, "c" to change camera, "b" to boost, arrows: pitching, turning, barrel rolling

Compiled version of game for everyone: https://rapidshare.com/files/3545173632/SSGX_Beta_Test.rar
Project files: https://rapidshare.com/files/738595167/SlipStream_GX_Project_Files.rar

[Xpand]

Looks great! Only decrease the track scale by like 5-10% and it's good! Also I edited the track so the walls are smaller and the ships don't look very small in it. But you have to use the "trackwall" object to make the wall collision work correctly. I'll send it whenever I can... next monday or so!

[zero3growlithe]

If you want you can set-up everything and send me set-up scene back cos I think I'm not going to take care of anything not related with programming anytime soon xd
Anyway, project files are up 2 posts earlier :)

@Docfo4r: Wavebreaker sounds good :) Something like car chase in Most Wanted :P Nightflighter is nice too with its climate ^^:+ Although multiplayer gameplay is still far from being begin...

[docfo4r]

Thank you zero :)
Yeah I know, we're far from multiplayer at the moment. It was just an idea that came into my mind and since it won't be really enjoyable in single player mode, it could be a multiplayer thing.

Actually these are just basic ideas. If you like to, keep them in mind so we can create a list of ideas for racing modes and when we reach the point to program then, we can decide which ones would be nice to be intregrated in SSGX.

[Xpand]

Hey how about someone write a definitive, or at least partially definitive backstory for the game? But I mean a whole backstory, not bits of it. It probably won't be something you will do in a day. It doesn't have to be very long. Probably just to work as like an introduction to the game, or an extra.

BTW I hate rapidshare... It's saying that 52 minutes are left since 1.5 hours ago... I even downloaded Unity (500 so MB) in the time that the project (400 so MB) advanced by 1%...

[zero3growlithe]

During night time it seems to limit speed for free users cos I have same problem... better give up and try again tommorow.
btw. Did you know that by pressing "d" or "f" you can side shift in SSGX newest release?

[Xpand]

LOL Dude! That crash effect is awesome! And the AI camera thing is just genius! :D Almost looks like a regular Wipeout game! :D

[zero3growlithe]

He he, thanks :) Camera while barrel rolling is fixed too (if you manage to download project files open Delcor City scene and check them), although making this barrel roll using torque is still on my to-do list. Also, don't know if you noticed (you had to xd) that hotizontal aligning of ship is present in this version (just stand somewhere on a hill perpendicular to a wall :g) achieved by creating external axis for player's ship ^^ That means that I can make ship bank on mag-strips if someone wants xD

[docfo4r]

Hey I can write a backstory if you like to :)
Yeah, it will take a few days for sure to work out something with quality, but we don't need the story to be done within the next hour anyway, right? I'd love to write something down.
Should the backstory go on in the career mode? I have some good ideas already :D

[Xpand]

For now I'm thinking more of a generalized story, like what events happened before the amateur league and how they sparked the creation of an Amateur league. We can include how some teams were formed, based on their description, though I would keep pilot names out to simplify. Things like that.

[docfo4r]

Alright, got it :)

BTW Zero: I tested your latest demo of the game. For the HUD, I must say it looks awesome! Really good job. Maybe make it a liiiittle bigger but it's cool. But I have to say something about the controls... Did you chance them since the last demo? Because they feel kinda strange and uncomfortable, sry to say. When I hit the thrust-button, it feels like the ship is gaining speed after 2 seconds or so. And when I crash into the wall and let go of the thrust for a second to correct the line, the ship always comes to a full stop. Acceleration is very slow in the beginning but at some point increases like crazy, don't know if that is good for a race feeling...

But maybe you just wanted to demonstrate the HUD, it's awesome. Same goes to the shaking effects when crashing, good work on that!

[zero3growlithe]

Well, I need to do some corrections to this feature called "Engine Torque"? in which when you hold thrust button an variable increases which multiplies acceleration variable (this should make ship start fast when stopped by constant collision with wall becouse engine is already rushing and doesn't need to spin-up) and when relased this variable is dropping (a bit too fast xd)

[Xpand]

Lol, if my teacher heard me saying "Engine Torque" in the context of a linear movement he would kill me! xD
I can get thrust acceleration data from real jet engines and apply it into the game. Assuming we are using jet engines to move the crafts I can get thrust-increase ratios so we can calibrate our acceleration with that. But that's a very smart system and pretty realistic, because a real jet engine wouldn't stop producing thrust when you collided with the wall (providing that it would survive such impact forces).

By the way how do you made the light map on your version. What settings did you use?

And where do you change the ship's height?

And where do you change what ships can be selected by the AI?

And why doesn't the AI respond when I make changes to their top speed in the AI script?
xD So many questions!

[zero3growlithe]

1. Lightmap settings: Mode (Single Lightmap), Quality (High), Ambient Occlusion (0.75), Max Distance (0 (unlimited)), Contrast (1.5), LOD Surface Distance (1), Resolution (80 texels per world unit)

2. You mean how high it is over ground? Well, there is no single value for that: try changing ray lenght + "anti-grav" force (comments should lead you to you destination xd)

3. Search for "RaceSequencer" script in assets/scripts/other, there: first add a new variable under comment "Enemy ships models" and name it as shown (doesn't have to be like that but just for readability), then in "function Start" add new line where: "name of variable you've just created" = Resources.Load ("prefab name in /Assets/Resources");

Ok, now look for function LoadEnemyAIShips where u must
change Random.Range (0,"number of ships") and add line in "switch" like: case(8): RandSelectorModelEquivalent = "name of your variable"; break;]
Finished, enjoy ^^:+

4. Hmmm, wait... which variable are you changing: "Speed" or "SpeedVar"? Cos "Speed" is for that (this one in inspector window)
btw. Newest version of Unity allows you to select multiple objects with same variable and change it the same as you would for one object.
btw2. You can start placing speed and weapon pads on cassandra ;P

EDIT: Full PS3 controller support added to SSGX :)

[TypeProton]

Demo feedback :
- What speed settings is this? Phantom? I can't ride without bumping into walls lol.
- Wow, the physics is much better! :clap
- Oooh and I get to watch how AI ride after I died. Should have a post-race replay mode where you get to choose which craft you want to watch. :D
- Is repeated floor scratching supposed to happen? I don't think Wipeout HD ever come close to this.
- Is there going to be multiple HUD to choose? tbh I don't like this HUD. xP
- When the player fly off the track and got reset into position, screen should flashes once. To get suddenly warped back into the track can get a bit confusing.
- I think the explosion when you ran out of energy shoot my craft up too high. My preference is like the Wipeout HD version where there's just short explosion, camera goes outside and then your craft really gets violently thrown around leaving the husk behind. (But the remaining husk should be heavier though.) But that's just my opinion. Do what you think it's good then. ;)
- [Anddd I found a bug (http://i.imgur.com/IVBml.png)]. I don't know what's going on but I just randomly pitching my craft and then I slided into some wall and ended up sticking headfirst into the track. If I tries to steer it'll just spinnnnnnn. It doesn't seems to reduce my energy. Can't get off from this heads-down state either.

[zero3growlithe]

Yeah, I have to fix this bug although still I'm not sure how xd Now, speed is phantom indeed (maybe a bit slower than in WOHD), floor scratch... hmmmm, yeah, figuring this out is a bit hard for me right now not mentioning that I have problems with analyzing WOHD tracks and how to achieve same effect in my tracks (scale of ship to track thing, not environment). Xpand's track doesn't make me feel same as in WOHD although I've tried different scales and in the end I left this scale which is in actual demo... and previous ones xd
Multiple HUDs, yeah, but they need to have same gauges, nothing more or less (Oryx's HUD is going to be in)
When player fly-off the track there will be flash, no problem :P
thx for feedback :)

[Xpand]

You have an excessive ship speed. I rescaled the track (scale 1.2 from the 3ds file) to the original size and made the ship speed around 12000 and turning speed around 150 and it looks just like the demo, though more controlable. Only the AI keeps going out of the track because they move too fast...

Also can you tell me how to change the position of the sun? You placed it on the opposite side of where it should be, lol...

For the lightmapping what kind of material must I use on the objects? And should I select all of them? And what if they have self-illum maps too? LOL, sorry, I'm really new at this lightmapping thing...

[dreadofmondays]

I'm not sure I like the new physics - I'm crashing into heaps of walls I wasn't before. Also, it seems like the craft has terrible throttle response; you lift the button for a split second, but the ship will slow down for a good second or so before it begins accelerating again; and it seems like when you touch a wall it puts an artificial damper on the craft that forces it to slow down for a few seconds after you have left the wall (very annoying).
I don't like that. :<
But the rest of it really pretty, particularly the HUD. Hopefully you can fix those gripes :)

[Xpand]

Starting monday I'll redo the ship physics engine almost completely to be more accurate with the real behaviour of a wipeout ship, though using only the ship's mass, airbrake/turning torque and engine power, all the other variables will come from those three. Of course if that doesn't work propely I can always cheat a bit! xD

I already made a change in the script so the ship doesn't loose too much altitude when it banks, but for some reason the extra lifting force kicks in too fast and the ship bounces a little when you turn...

[zero3growlithe]

private var Skype : Communicator;
private var Facebook : Social;
function Update (){
if (you need help){
tell me;
}
}

[Xpand]

Sure, compared to you I'm like a first grader in Unity! xD

By the way, how can I update the AI ship 3D models? For example: I rescaled the Helios ship but the new one doesn't show up on Unity. I usually reimported it into the game, but because it's set as invisible I can't locate it.

[zero3growlithe]

In Resources folder find En_Helios, put it somewhere on the scene and inside of this pre-fab you'll find children named "Body" and inside of it is your model, put the updated one there. Hope it helps :P

[Xpand]

Cool, ok thanks.

I need track designs people! Anything you have put it here. From today at 5PM to mid September I'll be putting my 200% on this project so come at me bro! :rock
Also building examples if the track is placed in the city, stuff like that, not just the track itself.

[zero3growlithe]

Yeah, if you have a nice design of track on paper or digitally then making it in 3D is just a pure pleasure :)
btw. New navigation system is on its way into SSGX, much faster and accurate for AI but less accurate for "player place check" so I'll have to think of new way to check this xd
Comparison of nav systems:
- previous one: 23 nodes and 23 colliders
- new one: 61 nodes and 10 colliders

EDIT: My idea on how to make placing system:
Every ship will have an additional collider attached to itself, using it I'll detect which faces of additional "track wall collider" were hit and add them to an array so they won't be detected again till next lap. What it will give me is number of hit faces and based on that I'll be able to tell who is further and btw say on which place is my ship... heh xd

[feisar rocket]

I need track designs people! From today at 5PM...so come at me bro! :rock
Also building examples... I been working on one yesterday, I'm just running a pen over now, I put one up in a hour

[Xpand]

3:24 AM: Cassandra progress: 96%
626662676268

[docfo4r]

Cassandra looks really awesome!!! I like that blinky-shiny-thingy at the top of the roof on the building in the third picture. Details like these are important :)

I see you getting the best out of it now that you have free time for the mod, huh? It's awesome!! Are you working on other tracks aswell? What's with this Tristanis Inferior [something like that] track which was in the demo. It has no AI.....

Today I can finally start working on the story. Got a short question already: Should the story be about a special league or should it be something for it's own, apart from Wipeout. Like... How it came to antiG-racing etc. ?

[Xpand]

I'm finishing Cassandra and Draco Cavernae, since they're both already in 3D, then I'll move on to new ones.

[zero3growlithe]

I'll finish Tristans Inferior and Delcor City myself cos only I can read my drawings xd

[dreadofmondays]

Wow, those screens are amazing. :O

[Oryx Crake]

Xpand I was thinking since my gpu cant seem to handle the amount of info in the basin park model anymore I could maybe send it over to you? and make individual building models and send them as I go? Because like I said my gpu cant handle it and that makes it extremely hard to finish it.

[Xpand]

@Oryx: I guess that can be done, though I basically had to rebuild it from scratch due to a problem with texturing the track. If I don't make the spline track in 3ds max I will never be able to map it correctly.
@zero: Hmm, ok, but I'm afraid we will lose modeling/texturing consistency. I thought I took care of converting everyone's model ideas to the actual in-game models, like I did with some of Oryx's designs and with Raptor's Amphithere and DC.

[dreadofmondays]

Hey, if you need more tracks, would I be able to design one?
I use Blender, is that fine for what you need? :) I also have Unity so I can test it out properly and fix any problems (like materials)

[Xpand]

You don't need to import it to unity. If you can make a 3D model that's cool. Remember that our (or at least the ones I did) track's bounding box is a rectangle of about 1.5x1.1 km. Smaller than that and the track's gotta be either oval or with very little turns. Above that is ok, but just assure it has some challenging spots and stuff like that. We wouldn't want a NASCAR like track, right! :D

[dreadofmondays]

I'm guessing you guys can't do mag-lock yet? :P

[Xpand]

Zero has that section in his code, but I never tested it, maybe he can explain to you how it works.

Also if you want to get on skype to ease communication my skype account is ricardo.xpand

[zero3growlithe]

It works great now, but Xpand... I'll have to divide tracks onto track walls and tracks surfaces cos of my rays which sometimes detect track walls and do unpredicted things. No worries, you don't have to do anything, I'll do it cos it's easier in Maya :P

btw. My skype is zero3growlithe

[Xpand]

Roger... If you do that its easier on me if I have to make changes in the track
Also:
6336

And we seem to have a bit of competition (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8874-Indy-wipeout&p=217460#post217460) to spice up the things! :)

We definetively have to get a glow shader...

[feisar rocket]

Well, here you go. If the Ascent was too steep, make it wider... (very small scale) :)

I'll be back...

[Xpand]

You think you can get me a top view of the track? it's easier to work with. I can use perspective views like that when I add height and details.

Hmm, aparently, even custom built shaders aren't supported by Unity Free...

[Rotational_aspect]

200th page already? How time flies!

Unity is quite annoying in what it allows in the free version, its why I stuck with Blender.

Update from me:

I have started to use the sun shadows in Blender (so I have shadows now).

I had a friend on BlenderArtists redo a portion of my steering code (vectors are not my strong point) and now movement is extremely fluid. This also means ships can fly faster.

In addition to the above, I have made a simple breaking mechanism that kicks in when the ship overshoots a node, reducing the time for an AI to recover.

I have now made several animation 'hooks' so objects have values to work from (i.e. using vector values to work out how far a ship has banked left or right (or braked).

The weapon /ship parenting works better now, when a ship explodes the weapon now spins to earth, although I have to make the weapon disable itself on release. In demos I have seen ships collide in mid air and bits fly everywhere. Damaged ships now trail smoke (well, spheres at the minute).

My defensive cannon is fun to watch in action- it will now track to and fire at the nearest ship that is underneath the ship carrying it. When the cannon is not being used it will turn its barrel back to its 'neutral' position.

I have ironed out some bugs in the menu system that spawns ships, although I am thinking of changing how this is done in game. Now I need only one copy of any object to spawn objects in game, and they are all treated individually rather than sharing properties and variables. All I need to do now is change five variables to make a new 'spawn' button in the GUI.

A few minor bug fixes (spawn points being incorrect due to scale issues).

[docfo4r]

Sounds like lots of good work is done! Great!

You guys are really starting now, I see :)

[feisar rocket]

You think you can get me a top view of the track? yeah, do you want detail or just the track?

doc: try to go around FX-150 area :)
P.S. any need for a track description, I can make a few today ^_^

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Do we have these prepared?
Background story that links this with the WipEout Universe
Track descriptions/information
Team Information
Weapon Information
Mode information
Gimmick information

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Gimmick information? What gimmicks?

[docfo4r]

Maybe he is talking about unlockables or stuff like that...

Or pickups like shield or turbo, since this can't be cathegorized as "weapon".

[Xpand]

@feisar_rocket: Just the shape of the track. You can add elevation values at some points to make it easier to know how high the track goes.

[feisar rocket]

...add elevation values at some points... What are my limits (never know, 1000u on Z axis can come to mind ;)) , and can I split the track in two?

[Xpand]

Well, the sky is the limit, but I wouldn't recommend doing more than 1000 meters of height. I know Cassandra has the highest point at 100 meters or so.... What do you mean by spliting the track in two?

[zero3growlithe]

I think he's talking about Ubermall like split... o.0

[dreadofmondays]

He might be talking about Corridon 12 too...
Ubermall is like 20% split, Corridon 12 is more like 80% split

[Xpand]

Hmm, if that's the case, I guess you can do it. It will be a crapload of work to texture the spliting and joining part correctly, though...

[zero3growlithe]

Yay, my new navigation system is so awesome! :D Now it is damn smooth on every speed and I have smooth speed control over AI ships and it's expandable to make them turn faster or slower too and whatever I can imagine ^^:+ And it works faster as I predicted and new "placing system" is not needed :P Although creating perfect "racing lines" for AI is quite time consuming as you have to estimate place and speed for every node X_X Speed can't be either too big or too small cos player can't have easy time with them :P

[F.E.I.S.A.R]

Maybe he is talking about unlockables or stuff like that...

Or pickups like shield or turbo, since this can't be cathegorized as "weapon".

What I think of in WipEout when 'Gimmicks' is said include
Airbrakes
Boost Pads
Weapon Pads
Wuss Wagon
Mag-Strip
Pickups

If there are to be general terms:
Track technologies
Ship technologies
Weapon technologies

Has anyone written the complete backstory? If this is part of the WipEout universe then someone has to write the story of the FX-150 league. And boy will there be quite a bit of fan wank...