ramming priority

[Aeroracer]

Do ships in online races have ramming priority.
I say this because when im racing and i am going for a speed pad with another racer i always seem to get knocked out of the way. I use a feisar and the big ships seem to knock me about, when i changed to a bigger ship it didnt appear to be as obvious..


Is this true or am i imagining things:dizzy:dizzy

Whats your opinions on this.

[DividedXZero]

Not sure, I believe we've had different experiences stated here. From what i recall, most people feel they are on the loosing end of a ramming match regardless of the ship used.

Very rarely do i get away successfully when i get rammed, and i usually end up pile driven by all other racers trying to recover from my first encounter.

But i usually try to side shift into them and then break away, some times i let them pass so i get a weapon and recover my position.

Anyone else?

[Darkdrium777]

It is a bit sad that a game as good as WipEout HD can sometimes be ruined by massive amounts of lag, meaning that any ship that touches you makes you lose the race. :/

I've never ever been able to get rid of someone ramming me. I always end up being pushed. When I say someone, they of course are not ramming me at all, it's just the lag. I'm sure it's the same on the other side sometimes... But it really sucks.

I really really really wish they could fix that so that the other players' movements are reproduced almost 1:1 like in an FPS such as Unreal Tournament.

[finngers]

I think you notice it more when it happens to you, and I haven't noticed it happening more or less betweeen the ships, I think its a connection thing.

Also I do it deliberately to others when their ships show up fully and not as transparent, just nudge their back end and turn into them slightly to mess them up

its more fun when you play aggresively lol :banzai

[Aeroracer]

I still think when two ships fly side by side fighting for a speed pad ahead the bigger ship seams to win adn knock the small ship out of the way.i wonder if SL have astat for this.

@DD..yes i wish the movements were reproduced exactly.i saw a ship fly so off the track last night but then i see it in front a split second later. This was just lag as far as i am concerned.

[Frances_Penfold]

I haven't spent as much time with WOHD as many here-- but my impression is that OFFLINE, the bigger/heavier ships push around the lighter ships to some degree. ONLINE it seems harder to say, at least for me.

Sorry to always make the Mario Kart comparison, but with MKDS, it was really clear that Nintendo toned down the collision mechanic for online play. So while the heavy karts/characters would really push around the small ones offline, all collisions were deliberately muted online due to lag. Basically, the game couldn't tell where the other karts were some of the time, and the only way to make the game play-able online was to minimize general effects of kart bumps. The end result was that online play favored lighter and more agile karts, because one of the only advantages of the heavier karts was the bumping capacity. Offline gameplay was more balanced.

I'd be curious to know if something like this is true for WOHD but I really don't have a good enough feel for the game to know :)

[Vartazian]

I dont think this requires its own thread. Should of been posted in the "Questions that dont need their on thread" thread.

To stay on topic. there is no priority, Its just lag.

[Handmadelion]

On Pure I did give ships personality traits.

For example, I would shoot Piranha every time I saw it, and cruise with Feisar whenever I saw it. While I just drove around in my little, weird-shaped Harimau.

On HD, Phantom Elite AI, there's not a great deal of time to process what to do with whom, for me anyway. It's hard enough usually to be in 1st by lap 4/5. Online same story.

[Lance]

Whut? Are you sure you posted in the right thread, lion?

[jimsin]

I don't think that the AG-Systems has much ramming priority - I was in an online race last week. It was 3 - 2 - 1 - Go! And the person infront of me had obviously gone away to make a cup of tea or something .... so I ended up crashing straight into the back of his stationary vehicle. Can't remember what type of ship it was, but it caused me to stop dead as if I'd hit a wall (or an Ubermall pot plant). Needless to say I was cursing them for the next 5 laps, especially when going down the main straight because I was expecting to crash into them again.

Would be interesting to know if one of the heavier ships would have just bashed it out of the way. Maybe we need to set up collision tests to find the answer.

ps: I frequently get knocked off the narrow overpass in Anulpha Pass by people ramming sideways into me - I have to overcompensate to avoid being knocked off, and tend to crash off the side I'm being hit from. is this a recognised tactic, or just a symptom of lag?

[Motorsagmannen]

i use all ships except icaras frequently (mostly piranha, auricom and g-45 though)
but it seems like i never get ramming priority...ever. no matter what ship i use. so best tip is stay clear and when in doubt, use rockets to ram instead.:beer

[Vartazian]

@ Jimsin. No Heavier ships wont knock wm out of the way, Triakis and G45 both get stumped by Icaras' and AG Systems Crafts.

[jimsin]

Well that's a relief, but this implies that you reckon that there actually is some sort of ramming priority yes? The debate rages on!

[DreamyElf]

this happens to me all the time...
also it's possible that it happens to everyone else.
especially in the first corners of a race.
it doesn't matter if i start 1st or last i always end up in a wall after getting rammed.
maybe it's the lag.
also it could be the ship but i doubt it, i'm sure i'm doing something wrong, perhaps i'm passive and not as agressive as i should be...:|
maybe i need to change my strategies? i don't know...
the only solution i ended up using is than when this happens i let go for a sec the throttle to avoid the collisions with other players.
i think it's better than being hit and then end up hitting the wall.

i know it's a race but it is a little frustrating in a race without weap being knocked out by someone...

[tug_14]

No Debate here...
depend of shield level , at 100% massive inertie to kick any ship
if ur shield is low , u'll be kikk by every ship u 'll meet

[KIGO1987]

The old ADSL1 i had. had zero ramming whatsoever. However i was a ghost pretty much all the time, there are some advantages in that, flying through all the players, maintaining the best racing line possible.

With the faster net connection ive had since the start of the year, ive had alot of ramming experiences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0K3clxgKgc). Which is a bloody pain. However the vista pads from the previous network connection i had nearly all the time are next to gone with the much faster ADSL2+ network connection.

[Temet]

Well, I remember on Chengou Project being pushed out of the track (which of course drove me mad :g )... and the pilot was recording the race... so I could see his point of view... and on the video, we even didn't see him touching me... so, I tend to think that online is faaaaaaaar from perfect (don't you always see a guys that is on the other side of the track picking the weapon pad just before you... 10 meters away from him? Well, I do... a lot!).
My conclusion : don't try to rationalize what can't be :g

[haiku]

I thought ramming was just a technique I hadn't learned yet. I get rammed often, and usually it is so exact that it seems purposeful. For example, I will start to get pushed from the back corner until the other ship has actually caused my ship to turn almost sideways, then they just continue to keep pushing me out of the way. I always lose a ton of time from it.

Last night, while doing a venom tournament with danterich, he actually managed to do this but it was right at the finish line and so he ended up ramming me sideways across the finish line and I got to beat him by a 10th of a second. I am not sure you can say I really won in that case... he just forced me to win. It was pretty hilarious.

[SaturnReturn]

haiku, it's definitely not a technique or a skill. That happens all the time and most of us who appear to be doing it to others know nothing about it. People don't realise how messed up it is in that sense until they see something like a splitscreen video of two players and notice they're often nowhere near each other when it happens.

[blackwiggle]

If this whole phenomenon of "oblivious ramming" by those who say they are not intending to ram another pilot is put down to lag, how come certain pilots are consistently more "oblivious" than others, surely if the lag was solely to blame the ramming would be spread out over the whole field, not so isolated as to make one pilot stick out for doing it.

[SaturnReturn]

In my experience it is spread out in the sense that everyone does it. I get thrown around all over the place by pretty much everyone if it's a bad game. Certain players seem to do it all the time but I think that's just the people with the worst connections. I think ships that have high handling stats are worse, possibly because they can change direction more quickly and the game loses track of them. It's possible that some might try and take advantage of the phenomenon by sideshifting more around or into other pilots. But the way it appears on the screen to us is almost definitely not how it appears to the other person. In some cases where the thing happens that haiku describes, both ships could well be 'stuck' together, both losing a lot of shields. That kind of thing makes it pretty hard to intentionally ram other pilots, because the chances are you'll come off just as badly, or worse.

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

If this whole phenomenon of "oblivious ramming" by those who say they are not intending to ram another pilot is put down to lag, how come certain pilots are consistently more "oblivious" than others, surely if the lag was solely to blame the ramming would be spread out over the whole field, not so isolated as to make one pilot stick out for doing it.
Haha! Yep, exactly the same as in Pulse. Always the same players. :D

edit: Yes, probably something to do with connections. ^

[Darkdrium777]

If this whole phenomenon of "oblivious ramming" by those who say they are not intending to ram another pilot is put down to lag, how come certain pilots are consistently more "oblivious" than others, surely if the lag was solely to blame the ramming would be spread out over the whole field, not so isolated as to make one pilot stick out for doing it.It has to do with ping. Some people have great ping, others not so much (refer to internet thread if you wanna know.)
The game uses interpolation code to predict the movement of the ships between each packet of data that is sent that confirms the position of a ship at a certain time. You get a high ping, and these packets are either delayed or lost.
The game also smooths the racing line of a ship, as to not have it teleport all around and turn at right angles.
Combine those two approaches and you get what you see: players with good ping don't ram often because the packets are tight; and players with bad ping the interpolation code has to make up for, and so they often appear to run into walls all over the place, add the smoothing element and you'll get a ship that rams you for a very long while before suddenly teleporting slightly forward as the next packet of data successfully came in.

The job by SL in that regard could've been done better to be honest. There are plenty of racing games out there with better code to deal with the packet loss, ping and lag. My guess is they used the PSP code essentially because you can observe the same phenomenon on the WipEout Pulse online infrastructure. Unfortunately the PSP code is not working well on PS3 coupled with the punishing collision physics. :/

[blackwiggle]

Well that makes sense, if the same happens in PULSE online, which I've never played, and SL has used basically the same code for HD it's bound to stay the same.
My experience is similar to yours Saturn, it does tend to be the more maneuverable craft [ Feisar, Assagi] that tend to ram the most.
Which is counterproductive for them as they have the weakest shields, but it was either Elhabib or Hellfire that used to complain about AG craft beating up his Quirex.:)

Strangely it doesn't seem to happen as much with the FURY craft as much as the HD ones, why that might be I have no idea.
Maybe it's piloting skills developed from play HD which are showing themselves when people eventually got FURY.