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View Full Version : Why 2048 is sooo unbalanced and different?



XxSuperRyugaxX
23rd September 2018, 12:17 PM
Alright, I know the game came out a year ago and nothing will change, but I'm just curious if the community agrees with what I'm thinking about 2048..

Soo, I always played HD/Fury on PS3 era and never had the chance to play 2048 on VITA, so Omega Collection actually resulted in a chance for it. Let's be honest: the design, the setting.. I loved all this since the first time I've tried 2048. Loved also the variation of having longer and larger tracks, and stuff like this.

It's just the system that makes me like " meh.."
There's no variation on choosing ships, yes you can try them out but then you are forced to use only specific ships, specially on online races.
On lower classes Piranha Speed TOTALLY dominates the rest, Feisar Prototype is a beast in most of tracks on A speed, AG-Systems Speed is insane on A+, faster than Feisar and Piranha Speed, and today I stil don't know it this is supposed or it's a bug..
The speed statistics are too far unbalanced, it's not as HD/Fury, yes you can feel that Piranha, Icaras and Tigron are the fastest (specially on time trials) but on racing is still all balanced, and that's why I have no problems on playing all the ships on all speed classes (yes, using Piranha and Triakis on Phantom can be tricky, but still, these are just 2 cases and you can still do it).

The weapon/item pads, just unfair. The fact you can get for example 4 times in a row a single weapon or even a TURBO. Missiles seems to not stun as they should be, most of the times they lose their aim too quickly.

And other modes too.. combat, why having the possibility
of restoring health instead of having a shortly shield? Considering there are sooo many pads instead of HD/Fury..

And Zone Mode. I've played a lot of zone mode in these years so I can say it: the aim of zone should be to make you perfect, and that's how it works on HD/Fury.. every perfect zone, lap, even speed pad, everything matters in order to get you more points, even having the risk of barrell rolling. And on 2048? The important thing is just too survive, no barrell rolls, no perfect zones.. just survive till you can.

I can understand the try on changing a bit the system but no, just no.. all these things made me to not enjoy 2048 at all, maybe a bit only pure race, but the rest, just no. And maybe that's also why, when there are still lobbies online in this game, 90% of them are on HD/Fury.

Sorry for my english bust most of you know I'm italian so I try my best.. to be honest, what do you think?

blackwiggle
4th October 2018, 04:47 AM
2048 was a rushed and unexpected job for Studio Liverpool.
They were earlier told there was to be no more Wipeouts for the foreseeable future after HD/FURY was released, as Sony had come to the conclusion that 'Racing Games' generally did not sell as well as other types of games.

The ONLY reason WO 2048 was made was due to the PSP being hacked, and Sony came up with it's replacement, the VITA.

Since Sony owns the IP to Wipeout, and suddenly found itself with no real blockbuster of a title for the VITA's release, 2048 was quickly, and unexpectedly for Studio Liverpool, commissioned.....Sony having used Wipeout with several previous new console releases.

The brief at the time was more to have every aspect of the VITA's new features operational, that meant the buttons on the rear etc [Hence the reason 2048 never was officially supported on the PSTV unit, as that used a standard PS3 controller that didn't have the VITA's rear button to get through the menus]
Getting this new button usage, and finding things for these buttons on the VITA to actually do, was given priority, the actual game itself suffered because of this.....it wasn't SL fault, it's just that they didn't have the time to build the game they would have liked to.

Clever Beans were given the task to Remaster 2048, and remap the controls for PS4 release, if they were given the ability to fix the problems you mentioned above is unknown.

Since the game play remains pretty much how it was on the original VITA release, one would have to come to the conclusion they weren't ask to....more the pity.

eLhabib
4th October 2018, 08:39 AM
Games don't get 'commissioned' - that's not how the industry works, bro. And these balance issues are not a result of shorter development time, but of insufficient testing, mainly because it's quite hard to find enough testers who can play wipEout on a level where the misbalance actually shows.

mannjon
5th October 2018, 03:07 AM
Games don't get 'commissioned' - that's not how the industry works, bro. And these balance issues are not a result of shorter development time, but of insufficient testing, mainly because it's quite hard to find enough testers who can play wipEout on a level where the misbalance actually shows.

Yes it is totally unbalanced. But at the same time, if they were to push a patch that leveled the AG Systems for 2048, many people would be upset for the same reason people stopped playing WOHD after the patch.

Bottom line is that there aren't enough active testers that play for that to be relevant. Also, anyone that would test at that level of detail is not the typical racer.

blackwiggle
6th October 2018, 10:44 AM
Games don't get 'commissioned' - that's not how the industry works, bro. And these balance issues are not a result of shorter development time, but of insufficient testing, mainly because it's quite hard to find enough testers who can play wipEout on a level where the misbalance actually shows.

Commission : definition : An instruction, command or role given to a person or group.

They were rushed anyway you look at it
It was from suddenly people looking for work elsewhere [for those that hadn't left already] to, hang about, we need a Wipeout for the Vita release, and it needs to be ready by [insert date]
No other Wipeout has suffered this imbalance, and I'm sure if given more time the issues raised would have been sorted eventually.

I remember Colin Berry, who had by then moved to Bizzare Creations and was or had been working on Blur, posting that he was surprised that 2048 ever came into existence after what Sony had told the SL team when he was still there.

JFthebestJan
6th October 2018, 11:13 AM
i think i've seen on a YouTube video that the very first wipEout was done in about a month or so, to have it ready for the release of the very first PlayStation ... could be wrong though ...

eLhabib
6th October 2018, 01:09 PM
Commission : definition : An instruction, command or role given to a person or group.

They were rushed anyway you look at it
It was from suddenly people looking for work elsewhere [for those that hadn't left already] to, hang about, we need a Wipeout for the Vita release, and it needs to be ready by [insert date]
No other Wipeout has suffered this imbalance, and I'm sure if given more time the issues raised would have been sorted eventually.

I don't know what makes you think that, honestly. In my eyes, 2048 is one of the best wipEout games ever released. Yes the balancing is off on A+ speed, but then I figure they would try and balance a game for the entry level players. On top level, every pilot takes what's fastest anyway because handling stats are not an issue anymore once you get good. So what exactly in 2048 seems rushed to you?

blackwiggle
6th October 2018, 03:26 PM
So what exactly in 2048 seems rushed to you?

Pretty much 3/4 of the reasons XxSuperRyugaxX originally posted......he has made valid points about 2048 deficiencies.
IMHO it was, and would have been if it had never been remastered and made available on another console system, a close orphan of a Wipeout edition, to the PS2's Wipeout FUSION.

It never seemed to get any love around this forum in comparison to previous Wipeouts

eLhabib
6th October 2018, 03:38 PM
Well, I for one love it. I think the ship design and overall visual identity is strong, the tracks are mostly interesting to race and the handling is the floatiest and nicest since w3oSE.

mannjon
7th October 2018, 01:24 AM
Well, I for one love it. I think the ship design and overall visual identity is strong, the tracks are mostly interesting to race and the handling is the floatiest and nicest since w3oSE.

I really like the Canon personally. To me it feels like a mash up of HD meets street racing, which if you play attention to the progression of the games story wise, is exactly what happens in the 2048 league.

The ship design is superb. What I really like though is the track design, and not even from a racing stand point. They feel like the start of AG racing.

The handling feels more like drifting, which once again makes sense in context as this is the start of AG racing.

As far as the unbalancing, it is only unbalanced to those that haven't unlocked the piranha and Feisar prototypes. In a lobby with no prototypes, I feel the balancing is fair and on par with HD. Even HD has balancing issues in the hands of a master. I green race with an Icaras. In a true race mode I don't lose often and when I do it is to another Icaras pilot. There are simply better ships for better events. Snakenator has all but proven that the piranha prototype is just as fast as the Feisar prototype, but he knows what he is doing and his play style is vastly different from that of a novice.

One final point to consider is that A+ is kind of a pro only speed. Once you got A+, you've got to have some skill. Though it does suck that the AG systems is still glitched, and is the best ship, if they nerfed that ship, many of the current WR times could not be beaten. Just ask anyone pre 2011 WOHD patch how they feel.

Cipher
14th October 2018, 04:31 PM
I don't think the game was focussed too much on multiplayer when it initially released on the Vita (wouldn't be surprised if the single player experience was prioritised over it), as indeed, there is no such thing as ship balancing in 2048, which is fine for a single player campaign I'd say, as events are tailored towards a certain ship and it means you'll explore all of them (as opposed to HD/Fury where you can complete the entire campaign, without ever trying a different ship).
And I honestly like the new mechanics they played around with, Feisar Prototype really is a cool concept and awards consistency/lines.

But indeed, throwing all those wildly varying ships together in multiplayer just causes problems, if the host doesn't allow you to change your ship after changing the track, you will probably be in for a rough time.
There's no real way to balance for both though, you'll take away from the single player experience by balancing out all ships (all the prototype ships would have to be removed due to completely different mechanics & agility ships would become pointless).

I think this is why they had voting for tracks/mode on the original 2048 for Vita, as you'd know in advance what track/game mode is coming up, allowing you to select the appropriate ship for it, in Omega, you're at mercy of the host and whether they give you time to change ships or not (provided you're paying attention and noticed the track changed).
Don't think there's a solid approach to resolve this to be honest, not if you don't want to get rid of the new/different mechanics, which I guess is why it's the same in Omega, it wouldn't be 2048 anymore if you completely redesigned the game (doubt there was time for that either way though). I did suggest a category filter (eg speed only ships, prototype only, ...) for the host to set, but that didn't make it in (although some of the prototypes are on a level playing field for some tracks, so it would take that away as well :/)

Touching the balancing of ships would've also meant lots of testing required and I don't think there was time for that with Omega either.

In the end though, I still love 2048, the track design & art direction is superb! The ship handling is also a lot more interesting than HD/Fury. And racing against an equally skilled pilot in the same ship really gives you that exhilarating racing feel, unfortunately it's just hard to get a session like that with random online people.
Every track having a certain meta ship is just a result of what makes 2048 unique/fun and I'm not sure i'd want to get rid of that just to keep it balanced.

The only issues I have is the balancing within a certain ship category and the wacky RNG with weapon pads, both of which could be solved, but require lots of time testing. We'll just have to live with it I guess \_(ツ)_/

Lion
15th October 2018, 10:24 AM
I've seen a number of comments lately on various locations talking about severe rubberbanding in 2048. I've played very little of it, so I can't comment... But if it's half as bad as the complaints I can see that contributing a lot to the game feeling unbalanced.

WolfKill01
6th January 2020, 06:39 AM
2048 is fun for what it is. The various ship types and the tracks are all interesting and gratifying to race with/on. HD/Fury is just a much more polished experience. Shame to see Studio Liverpool and WipEout IP go the way of e DoDo. Still holding out hope for the future.

*Sorry to bump a two year old post.

Jonny
6th January 2020, 10:00 AM
Any activity is welcome
cough

JABBERJAW
12th March 2020, 11:40 PM
They could easily have balanced out the ships more. There is no way it would have taken that long. Add speed to the ships that are supposed to be fast to the point where they can beat an easy handling ship with a perfect race from both. They were certainly told about it way ahead of release.

Jonny
21st March 2020, 12:02 PM
Why they are unbalanced? Because you actually have progression here