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Hellfire_WZ
3rd August 2015, 02:43 PM
v0.0.4 has finally been released on Steam Early Access and is now available to the public and to Kickstarter subscribers. Please use this thread to discuss any issues you encounter with this version and to give any general feedback. I will post a new thread every time a new version is released so we have an easily traced backlog of what has been addressed between versions. I'll be doing a video on this version in the near future, but please post your thoughts here for the time being.

My general impressions so far are as follows:



At the moment, the handling feels very "flat". There is no floatiness to the craft and it sticks firmly to the track. Despite that it does feel smooth, albeit it does feel like there is a small amount of control lag. It might be because I'm not used to racing with an analog stick (no d-pad controls) but there you go. Without airbraking, the craft feels very heavy and it is near impossible to navigate the test track without using them. This might put off prospective newcomers who are unfamiliar with the airbraking system.
The HUD is an absolute mess. R8 have gone for a "chase" HUD, in that the details follow the tail of your craft like in Split/Second. However, it works in SS because there is only a little information that you actually need from the HUD, namely how much power you have to set off PowerPlays. It's bright and easy to follow even in the middle of a race. Here though, it is incredibly difficult to read, which makes it all but useless while racing. Try to read it and you're hitting a wall. The fonts also do not appear to display correctly, with parts of certain characters missing. Like what happens when you try to anti-alias text. And to top it all off, your craft's ion train goes straight through the middle of the HUD, so even if it were legible, you couldn't see it anyway!
Rather than random pickups at the moment, you choose which weapon you want to equip your craft with before the race and it activates whenever you run over a weapon icon. With 10 craft per race, good luck actually trying to pick up a weapon! I've gone whole races without having any opportunity to pick up anything. Probably a good thing, because the rockets are horribly overpowered, one hit taking down half your shields. I have absolutely no idea what the barrier is supposed to do, I've never actually got it to do anything at all. Restoring shield energy is done by collecting floating shield icons on the track. Each one restores about 10% of your shield. Nowhere near enough to mitigate the damage caused by rockets. It is common to see a lot of eliminations, which leads me to believe this build has gone way too far down the combat route.
Speed pads are way too overpowered. The FOV effect when you hit one is quite jarring as it is, but the overall speed gain from hitting one is huge. If you're not ready for it, you'll easily slam into a wall. If you are, you get to keep most of the speed you gained from the pad pretty much until you hit something. Speed pads in Wipeout provided a subtle speed boost - enough to make a difference after a fair few but not enough to allow you to put up an insurmountable lead. The effect needs to be heavily toned down for the sake of balance.


Nonetheless, what little we have to work with so far actually feels quite good. I've found it quite enjoyable just cruising round on Time Trial mode, and to be honest with these early builds that's what you really need.

Mu5
3rd August 2015, 10:25 PM
Nice report - just about to fire it up I will let you know :)

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed:

- Its far too 'flat'. Its just not as exciting as previous wipEout iterations due to being 'stuck' on the ground.

- Speed pads are probably the worst I've ever seen/felt in a wipEout game. This for me is 'where the money is'. It does not feel like you have a burst of acceleration like previous games as it is so overpowered. Feels like too much of a disconnect when you hit the boost.

- Ship design. If only they got Dean Ashley to design the craft :)

- Music. Top notch and loving the new tunes.

I really think the handling + speed boost needs fixed asap.

blackwiggle
3rd August 2015, 10:38 PM
I haven't been able to get it to load, I decided to put off trying again till the problem they had with Steam was sorted late Monday, which early Tuesday morning here.
Guess I'll give it another shot when I get home from work today.

From the video I've seen, it's looking, and handling [speed pad issues HellFire mentioned], like a cross between Wipeout and Blur, which isn't surprising as you have people that went to Bizzare Creations to make Blur from Psygnosis/SL, that are now at R8.

I know it's early days, but..

Problem for me personally is that I never liked Blur [floating icons you run into annoy me no end ], so I never bought it.....so I hope for my sake FF doesn't doesn't go down this path too much, otherwise I can see myself also giving FF a miss.

terra-wrists
3rd August 2015, 10:45 PM
I'm pleased i'm not the only one who hates the floating icons... pads are much better.

blackwiggle
3rd August 2015, 11:08 PM
It's just a hang up I have about racing games.....if R8 want people to take FF seriously as a racing game, you don't go putting in aspects of a arcade karting game that obstructs the drivers field of view, playing this at any speed in cockpit mode [always my preferred view in racing games ] is just going to be a game killer for me.

When you add in the trail effects of any craft in front of you [option to turn off please as effects HUD reading as mentioned], the HUD [when they sort that], weapons going off, track lighting effects, and the blur effect speed pads have [option to turn off please, like WO HD ]......You'd be lucky to be able to see much of the track at all.

Perhaps they could still have the icons floating, but just off the surface of the track horizontally, not vertically, like WO pads except floating...that might work, but as it is...sorry, losing interest already.

Cipher
4th August 2015, 12:13 AM
I can totally agree with the hologram pickups, especially if you're flying internal, i didn't find them too bothersome when flying though, but i can understand that it gives a really arcady feel
They still have a lot to do to make it great, definitely not a fan of the current handling, track design could be more wild and 100% agreed on OP speed pads and rockets

I wrote a full feedback thingy on the r8 forums,b ut i'm not gunna post it here cuz it's a bit of a giant wall XD (But if you're interested, here it is; http://formulafusion.co.uk/index.php?/forums/topic/140-first-impressions-and-feedback/&do=findComment&comment=1952 )

I'm not really going to be testing/looking at every update though, only when something major's changed

And i'm really happy i'm not the only one who dislikes the ship design, they said there will be different designs at the highest speed class, but all the others will be these :/ (Maybe they'll re-consider :p )

Cipher

blackwiggle
4th August 2015, 07:37 AM
Well I'm home from work and still no luck getting FF to start, it says it's in my library, it start to load up with the big start button which you can see the track behind, but when I go to press it Ziltch, it tries to start but nothing happens ......I'm just wondering...I have 3 drives on the PC FF is loaded on, C:/ for OS and programs [Steam is loaded onto this drive], another as a scratch drive for photography, and a large WD black as a storage drive, which I think I might of told Steam to download the FF onto that.

Does FF or any other game you want to play via Steam, have to be loaded onto the same drive Steam is loaded on?

Looking at the handling, it reminds me of when a mate strapped a Go Pro video camera to the front of his skateboard

Hellfire_WZ
4th August 2015, 08:25 AM
No, I run the same setup with Steam on a different drive to the steamapps folder. It should work fine.

Silly question, but are you trying to use the controller on the menu? It only works with the mouse.

blackwiggle
4th August 2015, 10:31 AM
I realised the game could only be launched from a mouse, a message came up when I tried doing it with the 360 controller, tried it, no success.

I wasn't sure about the situation with different drives, so I checked the Steam site....this is what it said.
Steam installs to the following folder by default:

C:\Program Files\Steam
Files for games installed on Steam are stored in the following folder:
C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\

During the installation of Steam, you have the option to install Steam to a location other than the default. Since Steam relies on the game files residing in the SteamApps folder, your game files cannot be moved outside of this folder. The game files must be in the SteamApps folder in order to function.

If Steam is already installed, you may move the installation to another location, such as a different hard drive using the following process.

So I followed the instructions below given at Steam's site to the letter [I copy/pasted it and printed it out]
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7418-YUBN-8129

I had hopes,...Steam updated, I verified the game cache...then diddle squat...it's even worse now....I have no Steam shortcut on my desktop that works as obviously the files have been moved, Steam has disappeared from START> All Programs [just a steam folder you click on and it takes you nowhere]...it's basically all gone to sh1t....even went to un-install programs...clicked on Steam and windows said it isn't there....there's nothing to un-install.:blarg

What crap instructions Steam :turd

I'm over it, I'm just going to purge the whole lot from my up until now, perfectly running PC, ASAP.:bomb
I don't know if I'll bother to reinstall any of it again, I'm just too pissed off

Cipher
4th August 2015, 01:09 PM
Lol, those are some really silly instructions, simply deleting folders and files of a program is not something you want to do in windows XD

Just re-install Steam Wiggle, if it says it's already installed, you're gunna have to mess with the registry, but i don't think you'll need to (Don't delete the folders you still have)
Once steam is done installing, copy the contents of the steamapps/common folder (you did keep them right?) into the new installation directory (eg c:\ program files x86\ steam\ steamapps\ common)

Cipher

slimjim
4th August 2015, 01:22 PM
Glad to see im not the only one steam is giving problems too

blackwiggle
4th August 2015, 02:20 PM
After I calmed down a bit and had a cup of Tea, I deleted everything, made sure there was nothing left, then re downloaded both Steam and FF "To the same drive this time"....still the same problem.

I did some searching for what could possibly be wrong.....came up with either two different error messages when checking the state of the FF download....either a dll. file is missing...or error message 0x80070643 - Fatal error during instalation.
I posted the specifics at the FF site.
http://formulafusion.co.uk/index.php?/forums/topic/244-ff-will-not-launch-even-after-deletionre-install-of-both-steam-and-game-file/

xtriko
4th August 2015, 04:05 PM
Just joined you guys! Installing :D

slimjim
4th August 2015, 06:05 PM
well when i redeemed the code and the picture popped up on steam and the download supposedly completed but its just an empty folder :(

Cipher
4th August 2015, 08:34 PM
Note that the build is windows only, despite being able to download it on Mac OSX and not really complaining that you're on an unsupported platform, it's windows only, if you are in windows, right click the game in the library, go to properties -> local files -> verify integrity

Al installation issues should've been fixed since monday though (unless they pushed a new update or something)
Make sure you're on the TPP branch as well (also in the properties windows, last tab: betas -> from the drop down, select the test_pilot branch)

Cipher

slimjim
4th August 2015, 11:22 PM
Im on windows and have done all that the integrity check is instant because all it checks is an empty folder the installation created and made sure I selected the right options so not sure what I can do any help is appreciated also seen some others on FF website with the issue

eLhabib
5th August 2015, 11:26 AM
Ok now, since noone seems to be willing to address the elephant in the room, I'm gonna do it:
To all the wipEout veterans out there, especially people fond of w3o's feel - do you feel any joy at all playing this build of formula fusion? Because I have to say, I absolutely loathe it. Now, I know this is very rough and very early, and there will be a lot of tweaks, but the very CORE of this gameplay is so fundamentally wrong in every aspect, I don't even know where to begin. What baffles me, is that this is made by ex-wipEout developers - heck, even people who worked on the perfection that is w3o - and they still managed to get everything about the handling, the sensation of speed, the floating/flying, the claustrophobia of narrow tracks so utterly and sensationally wrong! This is in no way a spiritual successor of wipEout, especially not to the original trilogy, and it just shows that without the right feel you get something quite boring. This early version feels stiff, twitchy, slow as f*ck and dominated by weapons. Sorry for being so harsh, but I have put a lot of trust (and money) into R8 Games' ability to create something that feels like wipEout, and so far I can't see this early version eventually evolving into something even remotely resembling wipEout's feel.
:frown:

blackwiggle
5th August 2015, 12:56 PM
Ok guys ...FINALLY I got this SOAB to work....it took a lot of leg [keyboard] work to sort out, and to find out what the possible problems could be, then how to question if they were the same ones others are having....after sorting that, actually solving the problem.

Those having problems....I need to know your OS is first, which Windows Version are you on....please update your OS ASAP
You want the latest Windows Net.Framework build to run FF, currently with WIN 8.1 it's at 4.5.2 ...it's a newer one on Win 10, but you don't need it...if you have Windows automatic updates turned on, well you should be OK.....To save you doing so, I checked, there are no Optional Updates that are available that will sort any problems regarding getting this game to work.

Slightly OT: BUT -- DON'T TOUCH WIN 10 - MEGA Security ALERT!!! [personal information sharing issues ] with Microsoft's terms of agreement...see below
http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

My problem was when downloading the FF game, not all the files loaded ....there was a dll. file missing that stopped the game launching.....according to those at R8 responding at the FF forum, this is not a uncommon occurrence, it happens with a lot of PC games [The very reason I've avoided PC games for 20 years]
http://formulafusion.co.uk/index.php?/forums/topic/244-ff-will-not-launch-even-after-deletionre-install-of-both-steam-and-game-file/

I'll post a link above, rather than typing it all out again, what question/response were, and how I solved what was wrong [wait for answers and you'll die of old age]......but I can understand is anybody reading this thread goes...WTF....that doesn't help me.......which is why I'll keep a keen eye on anybody that posts as much in this thread.....I'll get the FU6KER working for you if it kills me!

You need to know how to get access to certain folders in Windows OS to see what's in them [you need to have admin access as well - if you are sole user- you have admin access]....do you know your way around Windows? Y/N ?
Answer that, then I'll help fix your problems....it just means I have to give very specific instructions on how to get to, rather than just telling people, which item within a specific sub folder, to check/change

- - - Updated - - -


Ok now, since noone seems to be willing to address the elephant in the room, I'm gonna do it:
To all the wipEout veterans out there, especially people fond of w3o's feel - do you feel any joy at all playing this build of formula fusion? Because I have to say, I absolutely loathe it. Now, I know this is very rough and very early, and there will be a lot of tweaks, but the very CORE of this gameplay is so fundamentally wrong in every aspect, I don't even know where to begin. What baffles me, is that this is made by ex-wipEout developers - heck, even people who worked on the perfection that is w3o - and they still managed to get everything about the handling, the sensation of speed, the floating/flying, the claustrophobia of narrow tracks so utterly and sensationally wrong! This is in no way a spiritual successor of wipEout, especially not to the original trilogy, and it just shows that without the right feel you get something quite boring. This early version feels stiff, twitchy, slow as f*ck and dominated by weapons. Sorry for being so harsh, but I have put a lot of trust (and money) into R8 Games' ability to create something that feels like wipEout, and so far I can't see this early version eventually evolving into something even remotely resembling wipEout's feel.
:frown:

NO , you are not the only one.....I see this early incarnation of FF as a bedevilled love child of some slightly addled programmers within R8 that did PURE while with Psygnosis/SL, then Blur with Bizzare Creations, each a unique idea for a change within a game, but each that failed to get people to actually embrace that idea, and play the game.....a rather pointless pursuit to take further you should logically deduce, if you already know people didn't play it, and it had cost your studio to close.

The Semi Transparent shield icons one has to run "INTO" rather than over, is my major bug bear....ElHabib....I know you work in the industry, and know some of the guys...please, help them help themselves before it's too late.

- - - Updated - - -

We only have hope if we stick together.
So lets do so

Colin Berry
5th August 2015, 10:09 PM
NO , you are not the only one.....I see this early incarnation of FF as a bedevilled love child of some slightly addled programmers within R8 that did PURE while with Psygnosis/SL, then Blur with Bizzare Creations, each a unique idea for a change within a game, but each that failed to get people to actually embrace that idea, and play the game.....a rather pointless pursuit to take further you should logically deduce, if you already know people didn't play it, and it had cost your studio to close.




I've not played it so cant comment on how it feels but to derail for one minute as I dont like misinformation, especially when it keeps getting blindly repeated as if fact....

NO ONE from the Wipeout Pure dev team is working on this game (I could give a break down of where we are all currently working, but I cant be arsed, just take it from me given I am in regular contact with most of them - you work with folk for 10yrs you keep in touch, and the industry is kind of small so you always hear what folk are upto).
I dont know who is on the code team of R8, but I do know where all the Wipeout Pure coders are working currently (and the designers, and most of the artists :D )

R8 does have a couple of people from Psygnosis Studio Leeds, who were artists on WO3. This information is on their website.



Oh and Wipeout Pure is almost certainly the most successful Wipeout to date. Pure sold close to 1.5million copies and made plenty of money for the studio (not saying its the best). WOHD ultimately had more people playing, but was given away a couple of times by Sony, once to apologise for the hack of PSN and I think it was on PS+ too.

But yeah, Studio Liverpool didnt close because of Wipeout Pure, or indeed any of the Wipeout games.

Apologies for the thread hijack, but there have been so many lazy journalist stories assuming this game is made by people from Studio Liverpool, I thought it important, no one in this industry wants to be given credit for, or take credit for working on projects they didn't.
Studio Leeds made Wipeout3 (and WO3SE of course), and those guys deserve plaudits for that game, a few of them work at R8, but it shouldnt be confused with those of us who were at Studio Liverpool.

I hope that sets a couple of things straight.

xtriko
5th August 2015, 10:48 PM
I just have one question... How do I use internal view? :S

eLhabib
6th August 2015, 01:30 AM
ElHabib....I know you work in the industry, and know some of the guys...please, help them help themselves before it's too late.

I'm an artist, not a coder. All I could do in regards of gameplay is tell them what I think feels right and what doesn't - but then why would they listen to me?
What I don't quite get is that they clearly stated they want to recreate the wipEout feel yet fail so miserably at it. Just play the old games, guys! It's not exactly hard to figure out that floatiness is key.

AdHoc
6th August 2015, 03:07 AM
Okay. I might be evil for this, but in a sense, I'm almost hoping for the physics in FF to stay like this.

Why? Because I want the original WipEout series to be the only saga having this particular gameplay that made it so successful.

And because I still live with the hope that on day, Wipeout will officially be back and the saga will continue.

blackwiggle
6th August 2015, 01:39 PM
I think I was slightly misunderstood by Colin....I wasn't inferring to choices made with the making of PURE, or any of the other WO games being the cause of SL closing.
The travesty that befell SL was, Sony just didn't promote the games SL were making, they just used SL for providing games for new console releases or a new way of getting games HD first download only title], and the games that SL did make, as you mentioned, ended up being given away as compensation for disasters made elsewhere...it was shameful what Sony did to SL.

What I was referring to was the choices made with Blur, and the closing of Bizarre Creations by owners Activision, mind you, Activision closed a lot of studios, so I'm probably being rather harsh by singling out Blur, but I distinctly remember a TV Gaming show here in OZ mentioning that disappointingly low sales of both Blur and another Bizarre game were the reason they were looking to sell Bizarre off, but no buyer could be found, so they just closed it.

How I connected Blur to FF was that FF Alpha has two things that Blur had, that put me off buying it, the transparent pickups via running into them, and the Blur effect when running over speed pads ....which HD/FURY had as well, but could turn off.

As for Formula Fusion....well after a week of technical difficulties meaning I haven't been able to get the game to work till yesterday [and heading into my 3rd week of being on strong antihistamines - it's been like having to wear a Motorcycle helmet 24/7], I haven't been able to put the time in to really test things out fully....my comments have been based on videos uploaded of FF's gameplay by others.....I mean there are some things so obvious that you don't need first hand experience to know that you don't like them, and can give reasons why.

R8 says they are at least 8 months away from a full release....that seems like a pretty long time to tweak the craft physics/handling to me, but then again I'm not involved with doing this sort of thing, so for all I know it might be wishful thinking on their part ???

I'm sure Colin could chime in here with his thought's regarding that proposed time frame if he wanted to, as he would be the most knowledgeable person at this forum to give a reply other than somebody at R8.

As it stands, the only player view available to test with at the moment is not the one I would ever use anyway, so until first person cockpit view is made available to test with, my comments on craft handling wouldn't be very helpful to R8 ATM.

I'm prepared to give R8 the benefit of the doubt......I think maybe some POLLS started at the FF forum, asking for opinions on various specific in game inclusions or deletions or options to turn on/off would be worthwhile......things like craft handling I would think will change as builds progress, so I'm not really worried about that ATM.

I, and I think pretty much everybody at this forum, just want a "Serious" AG racer we can spend endless hours playing.

Maybe we should all chill out a bit..... I know some of my previous comments have been a bit hot headed....mainly because I [like everybody here ] really do care about this game.

Reading comments made, our biggest worry ATM is that we think this initial build has design elements to it that make it seem too much of a arcade racer.....Ok, let's let that be known......start complaining about the craft handling after the 2nd or 3rd build if it's still severely lacking...early days.

Colin Berry
6th August 2015, 02:31 PM
Ah, I think I understand what you mean now :D

Regarding dev time, it depends on many factors, from tools, to number of staff etc. I certainly wouldnt expect additional tracks until the handling is near final. You dont want to rebuild track sections to fit handling, nor do you want to compromise handling to fit tracks. So get the handling and feel right, and build around that.
You dont need to build all vehicles, just examples of the extremes.

blackwiggle
6th August 2015, 03:50 PM
I hope R8 can stick to the quality levels of SL .

We WILL wait, if it means R8 needs more time getting it right......pointless doing it unless FF turns out Amazing.....I just hope R8 has the needed funds to do it to the quality level they envision....the Talent is there, so is the drive.

Cipher
6th August 2015, 06:00 PM
Regarding physics, i don't understand why they went on steam early access already? it's way too soon!! People are doing race records and getting accustomed to the current physics which (i think & hope) they will still adjust a ton, meaning the people who invested the time into getting used to the current ones will get alienated and most likely just leave the franchise not bothering to spend the time to get used to it again (it's like patch 2.51 >.>)
They can't be THAT desperate for money can they??

Cipher

Hellfire_WZ
6th August 2015, 06:04 PM
The majority of people posting times are members of the TPP, so they should be expecting things to change from version to version. It's the reason I'm not concerning myself with posting times or anything, they'll all be irrelevant as soon as the next build comes out. I do agree though that they're taking an enormous risk putting such a bare bones version up as the first Early Access version. What happens if someone like Jim Sterling or TotalBiscuit get their hands on it? Saying it's an early alpha won't help, the fact is they're charging 20 for it and people are gonna have minimum expectations for that. Maybe they'll see the worth in the build and tell their viewers to keep an eye on it, but I know for a fact they will say DON'T buy it in its current state. And considering the influence they have, that could be very damaging.

kanar
6th August 2015, 09:08 PM
It was an instant buy for me. Sure I thought as you it was an enormous risk to go early access right now with almost nothing at all, but at least we can already point out what's nice and what's bad, like the wall scrapping advantage at the moment. My guess is they need bakers and I felt guilty for not contributing with kickstarter so i rushed into this steam offer. Unreal engine is a nice choice, should give us some great results in the end. I think the physics are already great, having a blast with time trial mode, except the fact, as I said, wall scrapping is better than doing a nice airbrake push. Going back to the roots (no barrel rolls, only the best racing lines) is a nice feeling too. But yes you're right Hellfire, I'm already seeing bad reviews from steam curators and it's not good for the future. Hope they'll realize how much they were wrong soon. Million seller!!! Big hopes.

terra-wrists
6th August 2015, 11:12 PM
I think I'll wait until general release... this thread discussion has helped me to decide. Ah, so good to find a thread useful in wz after all this time - even if it isn't about wipEout...

...feck it, I have to say this. I don't believe any game attempt by any devs can top the wipEouts (w'o" fusion included). Unless they be psygnosis/SL all the way. That's what I think. But I also hope that FF will be something special. Another hope is that the weps pads haven't been designed yet (crosses fingers) and that's the reason you guys have to put up with those silly holograms instead.

Floatiness. Where the feckingham is it?

Ships...you don't get a choice of ship style? only the skin it goes in? I suppose it's more like formula1 in that sense... but that's formula1, not wipEout. Where's this spiritual successor?

So far from me, I'm impressed someways, and disappointed in others - but it's faaar too early to tell how FF is going to end up as a successor to wipEout, as you guys have rightly mentioned above. Sorry for the useless rant, i'm only going to end up repeating what I started off this post with and say, I think I'll wait until general release.

Lion
7th August 2015, 08:10 AM
Until they fix the FOV problems, the game is very close to unplayable for me.
The HUD is generally completely cut off by the bottom of my screen, and the craft moves so far left and right that I can't get a feel for the direction it's pointing, especially as relates to the track walls

slimjim
7th August 2015, 01:21 PM
For me it wouldn't download not really a pc gamer think its consoles all the way 😀

blackwiggle
7th August 2015, 03:03 PM
I've just been doing some side by side comparisons between FF and WO HD, I tried to even the playing field as much as I could, so I used the same racing view and chose Triakis as it's handling seemed the most similar to the FF craft.
I have the PC & PS3 hooked up to the TV, so I just switch inputs and controllers [I'm using a wireless Xbox 360 controller for FF ]

First observations...HUD's
I was using the highest setting and full screen with FF, I didn't have any problem with the HUD being cut off.....I know the FF HUD is still a work in progress, but using the same FOV, the HD HUD, although being much smaller and transparent, was very easy to read, and this is for somebody that never normally races in this FOV.......The FF HUD on the other hand seemed to be part of the craft [sort of like if a car had run over a cardboard box, and it had just stuck underneath it with 75% hanging out the rear and dragging behind it]....the result was I kept looking for a HUD but couldn't see one, to my eyes it just seemed part of the craft....I put that down to the HUD on FF is moving with the craft.....where the WO HUD is a static overlay.....the other point was that I could see the WO HD HUD without taking my eye off the racing line I intended to use, where with the FF HUD, I had to focus on the rear of the craft, taking my eye of the track ahead, causing me to hit the sides.

Conclusion ...I doubt any change in colour, shape or transparency to the FF HUD will make any difference to the readability of it if it remains moving with the craft....needs a rethink

First Observations... TRACK
Well there is only one at the moment, New York....as a track design I thinks it's pretty good, it does have that all important WO vibe about it...if you were racing this with WO HD craft at any speed you would like it, you could probably find a few short cuts on it as well ;) , there's nothing particularly challenging about it as it is ATM, [like the first left turn on Chenghou forward ]even using the FF craft as they handle now, but if R8 bring in pit stops, that could change....I suppose it depends where they would place it on this track.
I suppose R8 will spruce it up a bit before final release, but on the whole, I don't think track design is something we are going to have to worry about.

Conclusion....Put your minds at rest regarding FF having tracks equal to WO tracks, if not possibly something better in the works.

First observations- Weapons.
Only two with the trial, the barrier and rockets, the rockets take longer to launch than a Plasma bolt on HD and seem to do little damage to the other craft, the barrier drops straight away.....both weapons when used against you by the AI craft can do a lot of damage.
No conclusion as so little to report...it will all change in due course.

First observations- AI Craft.
The more I play this trial in race mode, the more I'm beginning to think R8 might just have some sort of "Learning AI" happening in the background...I'll keep my cards close to my chest with this one.

Conclusion...if correct, and learning AI are a part of this game, it could make WO HD's Elite AI seem a push over.

First observations - Craft Handling
OK, the elephant in the room time, and the one that is worrying even those known for being imperturbable.
If you break it down logically into it's components, honestly, it isn't as bad as some people are saying.
Comparing the FF craft to WO HD's Triakis....it made Triakis handling seem more like you were using Feisar or Assegai....the FF craft are very unresponsive ATM in comparison, the steering is either too slow to react to controller input, or the range of movement programmed for each degree of controller steering movement is insufficient....you would think it would make the craft seem heavy, but it doesn't, because there is a general lack of a differentiating dynamic response regrading the craft's "Ride", or Suspension [not a AG term I know], this last factor is not determined by controller input, it's determined in the programming.

Air braking ATM has no sensitivity control adjustment available, it works, and is pretty much similar to HD, but without the ride and steering reaction sorted, it's not as effective as it is in WO HD....there is NO side shifting available, but if you hit a side wall hard enough you get a effect very similar to a side shift, as it thrusts you out from the wall into the middle of the track [you also lose shield energy when this happens]

Conclusion - It might seem cobbled together by some, and to some extent it is, but then again this is a Alpha build.
If you break down each element that makes/effects craft handling, into separate components [and each component has obviously been built already, otherwise the craft wouldn't be able to be steered at all] , you would know that it is only a matter of adjustment needed of each of these to get the desired effect.....I mean it's only these sort of adjustments that make a Assegai NOT like a AG-Systems....little tweaks.

Anyway, after doing this comparison....honestly, I don't think we have much to worry about.

OH, and by the way, there is one very important difference between WO and FF that keeps being missed out on by ALL, and I have not seen mentioned by anybody, and will effect the way any FF craft operate.

Just re view the original FF video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=24&v=iASsC2Du8R4

kanar
7th August 2015, 07:16 PM
Excellent in-depth review blackwiggle ;) Looks like you're starting to see the diamond in the rough. Just back from the PC dealer, upgraded my rig for the future eh eh, I7 4790K OC @4.4ghz, paired with my GTX970; the -almost- perfect ride to run this Unreal engine at its best. And mgs5 I must admit ;)
After 14 hours now in NY, I'm feeling even more these good vibes I used to sense a few years ago. Starting to know the track, but as usual this game is awesomely demanding and performing a perfect lap is still way behind me. Broke the 44 secs barrier just a few hours ago, still sooo far from the best Test Pilot times (a low 42 secs, and 41 probably pretty soon;) Oh for sure the physics need to be improved a lot. As most of the TP said, wall scrapping (depending on the angle of the collision, you're instantly stopped or you get a few scratches which in the end gives you a good angle for the next turn and practicallly no loss in speed) must be corrected, and yes airbrakes need some tweaks/adjustments. But jeez this is already so good to cruise on this AG-track.
So yes, to my mind; they definitely (desperately should I say) need money. Maybe 2379 (until aug. 10th, after the price will be 27.99) is a bit high for just one track and one ship... But hey this is Wip3out. And you won't buy it again in 8 or 9 months. Not to mention the price will be for sure under 30/40, probably more, for the real release date. Sure we can't compare but I bought Dirt with the early access option and I'm not regretting it ;)
Ok back to NY now, need to improve my lines ;)

blackwiggle
8th August 2015, 01:35 AM
Nearly identical PC's :) , I just can't be arsed doing all the stability testing needed for OCing so I saved a few $$ and bought the standard i7 4790 chip.

That link I gave above in my previous post isn't the one I was thinking of, it's this one below, when R8 were still in proposal mode and calling it Slam Jet Racing, before deciding on a name change to Formula Fusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=13&v=TR3JI-w7TGQ

What I was getting at was, the over concern voiced about craft handling, without anybody taking into account the amount of performance tweaks pilots will be able to do to their craft in game....just look at the video and freeze it a certain points, read what the performance adjustments are to see what R8 have planned.

Lion
8th August 2015, 05:14 AM
The FoV problems I mentioned are worse for me because I have an ultrawide display, and worse again for anyone using multiple displays. The FoV is calculated based on the width of the screen, so if you have a wider aspect ratio it effectively cuts the top and bottom off.
The overlay at the top that tilts around (I really like that, they should use that for the whole HUD rather than the chase thing) isn't even visible at my native resolution - I didn't know it was there until I tried one race at 1600x900 windowed.

Related to that is that the amount the craft moves left and right in the chasecam view is tied to this too. It moves left and right so much on my display that it breaks my ability to sense the direction my craft is pointing.
To put how much this affects my ability to pilot into perspective... I have finished every wipeout game except 64 and 2048, and I have yet to even finish a single race in formula fusion

Hellfire_WZ
8th August 2015, 08:55 AM
Another good point has been made on the FF forums regarding the weapons. How many of you noticed a small bar on the right side of the HUD? It fills up every time you hit a weapon icon, and you can only fire your weapon when it is full. I had absolutely no idea, no wonder I was sitting there wondering why my weapons were doing f*ck all! This is another reason why the HUD is useless in its current state, not only is it difficult to make out any useful information, it's not even clear what information the HUD is even trying to show!

blackwiggle
8th August 2015, 10:02 AM
I see Varsh mentioned in that post that the HUD has had some major overhauls in the latest build, but if others like Lion can't even see the full HUD, it's not going to make any difference.
By the way, are build updates sent automatically?
I remember when I set up Steam/FF there was a option to have that happen, but I can't remember if I chose it, and after looking for it a few minutes ago can't seem to find where it's located......anybody know where I can find it to check ?

Hellfire_WZ
8th August 2015, 12:37 PM
The resolution problem is being worked on, should be addressed in the next build. To check if you're auto-updating, right click on the game in your Steam library and go to Properties. Should be under one of the tabs

Lion
9th August 2015, 11:40 AM
Right-click Formula Fusion in your steam library
Select Properties
Go to the Updates tab
Ensure that the Automatic updates option is set to Always keep this game up to date

While you're in there, go to the Betas tab
Check that you have selected test_pilot - Test Pilot Programme only branch - assuming you have TPP
I can see the developer option in there for selection too, I'm not sure if it works though? I would have thought they'd police this a little more thoroughly

Hellfire_WZ
9th August 2015, 12:24 PM
It doesn't, you have to have a developer key to access that version

xtriko
10th August 2015, 10:29 AM
I will not play this until internal view is released. Where's the respect for internal players?

Cipher
10th August 2015, 01:20 PM
They said they will be implementing it in the future, but it's not top priority right now
You can get an underneath camera with some shimmying around with the UE4 commands, but i think they disabled the console in the latest version, so no longer possible

Cipher

xtriko
10th August 2015, 02:43 PM
To be honest mate, I don't care about a game that doesn't has internal view. Even mobile games can change view. Until then, dead for me.

blackwiggle
10th August 2015, 11:17 PM
R8 haven't decided where they are going to put the camera for internal view yet, that's why we haven't seen it released yet.

I'm like you and have always raced using internal view, so trying to get to grips with the less than stellar handling while using a view I have seldom used hasn't been that brilliant a experience.

kanar
21st August 2015, 07:23 PM
Friday update 0.5 is really nice ;) NY by night & reverse, better graphics, better handling, better HUD, better everything... OMG they did an awesome job.

NY by night, best track so far. Looks like the new NFS but of course better because it's Wip3out eheh.

Just tried this shadowplay thing for the first time, sorry for my bad racing lines, here we go THERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMWol6NuBb0&feature=youtu.be)(youtube)

Still Alpha but already gorgeous, well done R8 ;)

Darkdrium777
22nd August 2015, 01:15 AM
And that's why you don't put copyrighted music on your stuff. Looks great though, but can't hear a thing unfortunately.

My only wish is for a way to disable chromatic aberration during boosting. That is a very annoying effect to me and others. And by annoying I mean it causes instant eye strain, and prolonged exposure will invariably cause headache.

Hellfire_WZ
22nd August 2015, 08:36 AM
New version out now, please use the new thread for feedback