Ballistic NG - Wipeout fan project

[Xpand]

By the way, what's up with using the Arrow Keys for people who don't have the luxury of using an actual controller? There's a very good reason most PC games since the late 90's use WASD for movement as opposed to the arrow keys.

Not in racing games they don't. Pretty much all racing games I own (goes up to around 2007) still use arrow keys for the basic accelerate-brake-turn scheme.
The reason WASD (or ESDF in the early FPS days) is used for movement in FPS games is because most people use the right hand to control the mouse. The WASD just stuck with people because the most famous FPS game at the time (Quake) used it. Before Quake most FPS games used a combination of WASD/ESDF and arrow keys.

I don't know/remember what scheme BNG is using tbh, but A-W-D to control the left/right airbrake and accelerate, and the arrow keys for pitching/turning is pretty natural to most of us I think.

[Hybrid Divide]

Been forgetting to ask: How will shield replenishment work in this game?

Pit-Lane of Weapon Absorb?

[dreadofmondays]

Pit lane.

There's a very good reason most PC games since the late 90's use WASD for movement as opposed to the arrow keys.

And what reason is that ?

[Xpand]

Been forgetting to ask: How will shield replenishment work in this game?

Pit-Lane of Weapon Absorb?

From the videos: Pit-lane

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

@Xpand Why not include both?

@Dread The arrow keys are just really unnatural. For instance, there aren't any other keys in easy reach from that position on most keyboards.

Does anybody remember that idea I had back for Slipstream, where there would be an invisible box in the center of the screen, and if you moved your mouse outside of it then your ship would steer or pitch accordingly until you returned the mouse to the center of the screen? One reason that I wanted my idea implemented is that not only would it be a familiar and ergonomic setup for the average PC gamer, but also that it would provide for easy analogue input without needing a gamepad; you could always emulate Digital steering with quicker mouse movements.

[dreadofmondays]

I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's a great idea.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Don't just say it's not a good idea, tell me why it isn't a good idea, and why it can't just be implemented as an option?

The mouse cursor would basically just be taking the place of an analogue stick. You wouldn't have to pick it up and keep moving it over and over and over again, you just move it to one side of the screen and the ship will steer in that direction. Move it to the other side of the screen and the ship will steer in the other direction. Move the cursor to the center of the screen and the ship will stop steering.

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Unless you are referring to having both pit lanes and weapon absorbing. You should specify which idea you're replying to.

[bigsnake]

Don't just say it's not a good idea, tell me why it isn't a good idea, and why it can't just be implemented as an option?

The mouse cursor would basically just be taking the place of an analogue stick. You wouldn't have to pick it up and keep moving it over and over and over again, you just move it to one side of the screen and the ship will steer in that direction. Move it to the other side of the screen and the ship will steer in the other direction. Move the cursor to the center of the screen and the ship will stop steering.

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Unless you are referring to having both pit lanes and weapon absorbing. You should specify which idea you're replying to.

The reason why it isn't a good idea is the same reason why people who play first person shooters on PC complain about looking using an analog stick except in this case it's the reverse, it's not accurate to control a vehicle with a mouse. Taking the input directly means you have to keep moving the mouse in order to steer and having zones on the screen which control turning is tedious and requires you to be accurate with the mouse in a very short amount of time. Considering anti-gravity racers are generally very fast paced it's more of a stupid gimmick then it is a useful method of input.

Take the six-axis input on Wipeout HD and Wipeout 2048 for instance because this is basically the same. Having your controller/vita not tilted means you don't turn, and to turn you have to tilt your controller/vita (effectively the side of the screen scenario). Not only is there lag from the input but it's also very hard to make quick reactions because you have to physically move your arms. How many people actually use motion controls when playing HD/2048 seriously? With the mouse, you have to move your wrists more to start turning then you would your thumb on a d-pad, analog stick or keyboard keys. Of course in higher resolutions the mouse is also less sensitive, so if you really wanted to use the mouse as a method of input then you'd rather need a high DPI or play the game in a low resolution. This sort of feature is best used on touch-screen devices where you can tap either side of the screen quickly.

For the pit lanes and weapon absorbing they can't really co-exist because absorbing makes pit-lanes completely redundant. Since you can absorb as quickly as you can hit weapon pads all you need to do is hit a few and you're already back at full health. If you make the energy restored too low then the game becomes artificially difficult and if you have pitlanes combined with the absorbing and a low restore rate then you've just provided the player with a really easy way of staying alive so they can get back to the pitlane to heal.

[Thane Corrigan]

If anyone was wondering, I put up the placeholder page for Caliburn on the wiki just now. It's got a little blurb, but very minimal information for now.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

I can see how mouse sensitivity could be a problem, but couldn't it be programmed to scale with screen resolution? You could also have options to adjust the level of precision and the size of the bounding box.

As for pit lanes and absorbing, you could either put a cool down on absorbing weapons, make it so that you can only recover up to X% of your health through absorbing, etc... Thus giving the pit lane some use; when using the absorb function to recover health, you can't absorb-spam, and your health will never go above, say, 65%. In order to restore it to full, you would need a Pit Lane.

[Thane Corrigan]

I'm in no way involved in the coding or building of the physics/UI of this game, but I'm pretty sure I know just a little bit about game design, having played them for many years. A game mechanic needs to be tested not only for its appeal and ease of use in the environment, but also for redundancy based around your original concept and a working prototype.

The idea isn't create an homage to HD. That's what SS-GX was built to be. B-NG's direction is an homage to the original trilogy of Wipeout games.

Here are current facts necessary to know about the game as it stands (as far as I'm aware):
- Barrel rolls are not a feature, removing the 15-point shield drain present in Pure/Pulse/HD/2048. Average shield levels in a race stay higher as a result.
- Instead, Hyperthrust is implemented. This boost is activated at the push of a button, gradually reducing the shield the longer the button is pressed.
- However, this doesn't make the Turbo redundant, as Hyperthrust is slower on the uptake and more costly. The decision of Speed vs Shield management is still valid.
- The path of the pit lane is deliberately designed to recharge a large amount of shield while risking the loss of a race position and taking away from your track times.
- Meanwhile, the instant use Energy-Pack has been brought back - available from the weapon pads as an item while at low shield levels, replenishing a small amount of shield.

If absorbs are an option (even with a cooldown), several things will be unbalanced:
- With a supersaturation of shield recharge methods, average shield levels will stay even higher, making combat prospects less risky and exciting.
- With every item and weapon absorb providing the opportunity of an instant shield recharge, the E-Pack item will be redundant.
- Even with a pitlane, who would risk it to lose a position when they can rely on an absorb? Consequently, as bigsnake said, this makes the pitlanes redundant.

Realistically, in all the Wipeout HD videos you've seen, how often would someone ever bother to absorb above 50%? Most would argue that it would be a waste of a decent weapon, others would absorb without a doubt just to increase the number of barrel rolls they can pull off safely.

Back in 2097 and Wip3out, pitlanes and the chance of an E-pack were all you had, making you rely a lot more on your skills in avoiding weapons and walls to make it to safety. While the option to absorb may be preferable to some people, I for one support being faithful to the original vision of the Wipeout series.

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As for mouse control... even if it's not built into the game, there are many programs out on the web that can convert mouse movement directly into a button press input.
Current one I'm using is GlovePIE, it's built to emulate everything from joystick controls to Xbox Kinect inputs.

All you need is a list of the keys and commands, the least amount of patience to code a script, save it and run it, and then you can adjust it for sensitivity.
Like for instance:

UpArrow = delta(Mouse.DirectInputY) > 1
DownArrow = delta(Mouse.DirectInputY) < -1
LeftArrow = delta(Mouse.DirectInputX) < -1
RightArrow = delta(Mouse.DirectInputX) > 1

The code lines for the Up and Down keys are written to provide inverted pitch controls like Wipeout uses, and obviously you can change the 1 to a different number.

I honest wouldn't recommend using a mouse in a racing game, though... if it can be helped at all. I'm not an expert, but it's no joystick. I've tried Flight Simulator with a mouse and I can tell you it's not easy.
But hey, I'll let you know how I get on with Wipeout 3. I'll test it out right now

EDIT: It went terribly. A mouse really isn't the best for precise motion, its too floaty.

[bigsnake]

Just some news on the next release.
So the planned release date is somewhere in January, however I've managed to get everything setup quicker then expected so we could be seeing a Christmas release. I'm at least striving for that, if it's not ready at that point then I won't release until the current planned January date.

All teams are setup and ready to try out, in this release they will all be unlocked but in the future I am going to implement a system to unlock them. As for tracks there will be 4 to try out: Aciknovae, Luna, 0x001 and a secret track that you will see once released. The whole game has been rewritten since the 20th Anniversary release to take advantage of a new tile based track system. From a physics standpoint not too much has changed, it's mostly ship configurations that have been altered. The most noticeable change is the removal of 90 degree invisible walls on the track, meaning you can now pitch up and you'll have a bit more room to slide around on the track. Your total time after completing a race is now saved instead of your best lap, however your best lap will be displayed if no save file for times are found.

[TheXTR09]

Great! 'tis the season where miracles happen.

And look! I made more weird stuff.
What's WipEout if no corporate company supports them?
Avox_Logo.png
ForgerOne_logo.png
HappyKitty_logo.png
(Original by Source modder RedRogueXIII. He's pretty much silent for years.)


Get their .psd/.ai files here.

[Ace3000]

In 2156 Comic Sans still exists?! Ugh.

All jokes (and tastes in typefaces) aside, I think they're pretty well done.

[TheXTR09]

@Ace3000
It's Comic Neue. I frickin' loved it for some reason. I should use the Angular version but I think the Standard one fits in more nicely.
In fact, Garamond has lasted for 475 years! Still being used by fashionistas for fanciness.

[bigsnake]

I like the first two, the first image's font is a bit unreadable but the design other then that is good 2nd one is my favorite. Thanks for the designs!


I've just released v0.1 of the game, you can find the download link on the releases thread or here's a direct link.
Two of the tracks aren't complete but they're good enough so far to be included in this build. This version of the game is focused on letting you try out the ships, some things are a bit rough around the edges but you shouldn't experience any problems trying to play the game. If you do though, please do report it

A new feature I added just before releasing is hypermode, with this enabled it almost doubles the speed of the ships but your times wont be saved. Using Barracuda also disables time saving as it's an OP ship which in the future will have to be unlocked.

[TheXTR09]

Using Barracuda also disables time saving as it's an OP ship which in the future will have to be unlocked.

Barracuda? For Christmas?
And a 0.x beta release?


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And within minutes, I got to try it out. Boy, how damn good this build is.

Ships handles absolutely spot-on, the graphics were wonderful, there's barely any glitches, and it runs silky smooth.
But once I got into the faster classes, the handling can't really keep up with the ship. Whether this is me being a noob or if the handling needs some tweaking, I'm pretty sure it's the former.

And here's one thing that really bugs me off: Collision damage. It's goddamn huge. Head-on on a Tenrai, some 20% of it was lost. Collision damage should be a little less painful. Hell, I died halfway in Aciknovae on Halbred.

The graphics aren't just nice, it's even faithful to the original PSX. "Vibrating" meshes, Minecraft-grade textures and sprites, it's is a one-way trip to Nostalgia Town. Even the little details, like camera-bots aiming at you (and even doubles as the position you're viewing in Replay) and no rain indoors, a detail which many AAA PSX games miss.

There's only one glitch on textures. Behind the starting line billboards there's a texture dump, and somehow a picture of a tree is there too. Iunno, I just like checking out for Easter eggs.

And well done, Snake. You impressed me again.

[AGgamer]

This is pretty exciting. But I can't run anything! (My fault, computer isn't compatible) Can someone post a gameplay vid for me to fawn over? Maybe a snapshot of Barracuda? Because I see nothing otherwise.

[TheXTR09]

Barracuda. In all its glory
3eVDIfV.png
FAAST.PNG
Even in Toxic, it's faster than the WO2097 Piranha in Phantom.
I'm not joking.

[bigsnake]

Glad to see you enjoyed it

That texture dump you saw is actually the texture for the whole of Aciknovae, environment textures in the game are done through an atlas so only one image has to be used. Ideally those billboards will be mapped properly at some point. I've just released a small update, it overwrites the previous link. I fixed a few spelling errors and fixed the post processing effects, nothing too special but they needed fixing.